The majority of women will never accept.

[Leslie Langford]

Lots of interesting POV's being expressed here, but the one thing that is becoming abundantly clear in this thread is that we, as crossdressers, are so wrapped up in ourselves that because of this, we often have our collective heads so far up our butts that we really do need to come up for air once in awhile.

While CDing might be a HUGE thing for some of us because of the paranoia that we have inflicted upon ourselves due to society's assumed disdain for both ourselves and our lifestyle, this is far from being a universal truth. The more I go out in public en femme, the more acceptance I find - especially among all manner of GG's. SA's in stores in particular treat me with dignity and respect, and practically fall all over themselves to help me. Rather than being looked upon as a persona non grata, they seem to find me both intriguing and fascinating. Those that do "read' me are often full of sincere and well-intentioned questions about my lifestyle, as well as admiration for my willingness and courage to express the real "me".

Here's another example: Some years ago, I joined the on-line forum of a Canadian women's magazine, initially to participate in discussions on beauty and fashion. I was very open about the fact that I was a crossdresser and my reason for being there. While some of the other members were a bit stand-offish initially, most accepted me just like one of the girls once I started to post on a regular basis and they got to know me as well as what I was able to contribute. Eventually, a sub-group of those GG's began to take a real shine to me and actively sought out my input on various topics. For reasons I won't go into here, some of the regular posters who were part of certain cliques (as in "mean girls" - sound familiar?) seemed to get jealous over the on-line friendships that I had started to develop there and began to give us a bit of a hard time - and me in particular. One of the more tech-savvy ladies among my "admirers" then suggested that she set up a dedicated Facebook page just for us to meet on to exchange news, view, tips, ideas etc. without all that other background noise. In fact, one of her prime motivators for this was the fact that she didn't want to see me leave the other forum and thereby miss out on some of the more spirited dialogs that we as a group had begun to engage in. So here I am now, happily chatting away on this shared Facebook site on a regular basis with my on-line GG gal-pals and being treated just like one of the girls - even to the point of routinely being referred to as "she".

So, the moral of my story is that if you act the part and exhibit enough self-confidence, people will eventually treat you the way you present yourself without thinking twice about it. In a sense, they become "color-blind" in the same way that most people of different races interact with each other these days by focusing on what they have in common as opposed to what separates them.

Granted, when this comes to SO's or friends or loved ones etc. who have a hard time wrapping their minds around our newly-discovered female sides when they have formerly only known us as "manly" men, this can sometimes present an insurmountable challenge. But as for the average GG - unless they are of the dyed-in-the-wool, "old school" persuasion - most are quite willing to accept us for what we are without undue judgement - at least in my experience so far...

[IMkrystal]

there are to many variants for them to respond to , someone should ask " to what degree of cross dressing would you happily accept .

"Variants" is the key word here. It is too bad that many of us only see the extreme from a CDer's point of view and from a woman's point of view. We both need to give up stereotypes!!

[JulieC]

I utterly reject the thread title, not out of opinion per se but out of observed reality. We've run polls about this here before. I've read experiences of people here, heard experiences from others outside of this forum, and have my own experiences. Nothing in any of that leads me to even BEGIN to believe that a majority of women will not accept crossdressing.

I really think it's selling women, as a group, incredibly short.

There will always be women who are opposed enough to crossdressing that they'd divorce over it. There will always be women who are excited about their husband crossdressing, and actively support and encourage their spouse in TG pursuits. From everything I've seen over the years, those two either-end extreme populations represent 5-10% of all women, each. From there, the remaining 80-90% of women span the spectrum of acceptance. Some accept a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and try to live life. Some accept and support, don't mind discussion, but don't want to see their husbands en femme. Some are ambivalent, take it or leave it, and it doesn't affect them negatively or positively. Some casually support, occasionally buying things, or slightly encouraging. Some are willing to more actively support, occasionally going out with their husbands en femme, and frequently being on the lookout for a great bargain on clothes/shoes/makeup for their spouse.

I readily grant that no girl fantasizes as a child about her knight in shining white wedding dress. It's just not the fantasy that's imbued in children, not what little girls aspire to. But, similarly on the other extreme, little girls aren't sent to a formal programming school to brainwash them into thinking that crossdressers are the spawn of Satan. From everything I've seen, most women might not be tickled pink about their husbands crossdressing, but once informed are willing to work with it, learn, understand, adjust, and grow. Many realize the man they love and married (or intend to marry) isn't just the "male" aspects, but all of them; even parts people would typically call "femme".

The idea that most women are just not capable of or are unwilling to adjust and grow is, frankly, rather absurd to me; and I'm being kind here.

[Marcia63]

Hi Suzy,

I guess I'm one of the lucky ones now.. First time round I wasn't!

I think it is difficult to generalise, as oils have different viscosities, and some can mix easier than others!

My wife's acceptance has not been an easy road, but gradually over time she has come to understand.

We have a strong and loving relationship, and she appreciates the feminine side to my nature.

LOL
Marcia

[ReineD]

There will always be women who are opposed enough to crossdressing that they'd divorce over it. There will always be women who are excited about their husband crossdressing, and actively support and encourage their spouse in TG pursuits. From everything I've seen over the years, those two either-end extreme populations represent 5-10% of all women, each. From there, the remaining 80-90% of women span the spectrum of acceptance. Some accept a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and try to live life. Some accept and support, don't mind discussion, but don't want to see their husbands en femme. Some are ambivalent, take it or leave it, and it doesn't affect them negatively or positively. Some casually support, occasionally buying things, or slightly encouraging. Some are willing to more actively support, occasionally going out with their husbands en femme, and frequently being on the lookout for a great bargain on clothes/shoes/makeup for their spouse.

I readily grant that no girl fantasizes as a child about her knight in shining white wedding dress. It's just not the fantasy that's imbued in children, not what little girls aspire to. But, similarly on the other extreme, little girls aren't sent to a formal programming school to brainwash them into thinking that crossdressers are the spawn of Satan. From everything I've seen, most women might not be tickled pink about their husbands crossdressing, but once informed are willing to work with it, learn, understand, adjust, and grow. Many realize the man they love and married (or intend to marry) isn't just the "male" aspects, but all of them; even parts people would typically call "femme".

The idea that most women are just not capable of or are unwilling to adjust and grow is, frankly, rather absurd to me; and I'm being kind here.

Wow ... very well said!!

There is quite a big difference between:

• the attitudes of both, the GGs who frequent this forum and the GGs that the CDers who are out of the closet write about and,
  
• the perception of how *most* GGs feel by the CDers who are still deeply in the closet.

I've often wondered if sometimes a GG is viewed as being totally non-supportive because she isn't where her husband would like her to be in terms of her participation. And also if the real issues in their marriage are much deeper than just the CDing.

[CherryZips]

From everything I've seen over the years, those two either-end extreme populations represent 5-10% of all women, each. From there, the remaining 80-90% of women span the spectrum of acceptance. Some accept a Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy and try to live life.

But can you really call DATT acceptance? I honestly don't think so. They are after all meant to be a couple. I know people might be happy with this arrangement but I don't call that acceptance. Its a form of toleration which is different.

[JulieC]

I've often wondered if sometimes a GG is viewed as being totally non-supportive because she isn't where her husband would like her to be in terms of her participation. And also if the real issues in their marriage are much deeper than just the CDing.

But can you really call DATT acceptance? I honestly don't think so. They are after all meant to be a couple. I know people might be happy with this arrangement but I don't call that acceptance. Its a form of toleration which is different.

I've been informed that my post is hijacking the thread, so I'll back out here.

But, I do want to respond to a general concept arising in the above two quotes.

I've seen a pattern among CDers that almost (almost) regardless of how accepting and supportive a wife is, CDers very typically crave more acceptance and support, and wish there was just a bit more.

How do you define 'acceptance'? At its raw base, the ability to successfully continue the marriage seems a reasonable metric. But, for every metric I or anyone else could come up with, others will have a different definition of what 'acceptance' is.

With that, adieu.

[ReineD]

JulieC, although the OP has an excellent point and she started this thread to encourage CDers to be understanding and compassionate with their wives, she did say in her title that the majority of women will never accept. This was reinforced by several others who responded. I hardly think that your opinion to the contrary constitutes hijacking the thread.

[Angiemead12]

Yup most women get weirded out, I have tried telling some friends and they still prefer me as a guy because that is what they are used too. I count my blessings everyday for my supportive partner, She is so understanding, sometimes I feel bad for being to girly because she did fall in love with a man.

[Susan Hewitt]

i agree with the op that the majority of women would probably not accept it but i don't think we should accept their non acceptance

[Jenny Gurl]

I googled for the crossdressers site the other day and saw a similar site for crossdressers wives. I was curious so I read on the forum for a while hoping to get a little insight of the issue from the S.O. perspective. I read a little while and there are a few very upset people out there. There are others who pass the anger onto other people who are trying to understand it. I was tempted to link them here to give them a place to ask questions from the horses mouth so to speak but I wasn't sure it was the right thing to do. Here is the site in case someone wants to go read a bit to get a sample from the other side. http://www.crossdresserswives.com/ I don't really know if it is getting more acceptable or not. I just know I was born this way and I never planned to deceive anyone, I just want to be myself without being ridiculed and judged. I know passable is not suppose to be a goal, but it sure would make it easier to avoid all the judgmental people.

[ReineD]

I read a little while and there are a few very upset people out there. There are others who pass the anger onto other people who are trying to understand it.

Jenny, I'm afraid you've found THE premium site for intolerance towards CDing. Unsuspecting GGs end up leaving the site because of the handful (yes, it is just a handful) of bitter women who run it. I've no doubt there were many other issues in these women's marriages that prompted them go on such a rampage against the CDing. There are women on that site who have deep religious objections to the CDing and like it or not, there are some CDing husbands who do have anger issues, sexual issues, and who abuse drugs and alcohol.

"Nor hell a fury like a woman scorned."

[JulieK1980]

I googled for the crossdressers site the other day and saw a similar site for crossdressers wives. I was curious so I read on the forum for a while hoping to get a little insight of the issue from the S.O. perspective. I read a little while and there are a few very upset people out there. There are others who pass the anger onto other people who are trying to understand it. I was tempted to link them here to give them a place to ask questions from the horses mouth so to speak but I wasn't sure it was the right thing to do. Here is the site in case someone wants to go read a bit to get a sample from the other side. http://www.crossdresserswives.com/ I don't really know if it is getting more acceptable or not. I just know I was born this way and I never planned to deceive anyone, I just want to be myself without being ridiculed and judged. I know passable is not suppose to be a goal, but it sure would make it easier to avoid all the judgmental people.

Wow. After perusing that site, I can't help but feel sad. Sad for the women who go there for "support" and essentially get told to divorce the "diseased" husbands, and sad for the crossdressers who probably have no idea of the ideas being placed into their spouses minds. The lack of any empathy, the lack of any insight, the shunning of anything remotely positive for the crossdresser. To think it maintains a "non-profit" status. I truly feel sorry for the women on there that obviously suffered some severe emotional trauma to cause them to hate so much. How many lives were ruined by the advice on that site? Well intentioned or not.....

[ReineD]

Jody ... it is only women like themselves who stay there. Others move on and come here!

Seriously, there's no amount of hate mongering that will will poison a GG against the CDing if she has a good relationship with her husband to begin with.

[JulieK1980]

Jody ... it is only women like themselves who stay there. Others move on and come here!

Seriously, there's no amount of hate mongering that will will poison a GG against the CDing if she has a good relationship with her husband to begin with.

A very good point.

*Goes to hug wife*

[AKAMichelle]

I have to disagree with you. I talked with a friend of mine last night about why she accepted my cd'ing. She told me how the cd'ing was a completion of my male side. It answered questions of why I did certain things in male mode. I have asked others and they had similar comments. I haven't had the rejection that some of you have. I still don't understand it. Most of the women who have accepted me are from the demographic that people say will never accept you.

Christian / Republican / Members of Focus on the Family / Missionaries so I don't understand the issue. I understand that there is an issue, but I haven't had to deal with it much.

[busker]

I'm going to make a generalization here and wonder out loud whether women are generally not accepting of men being cders because why would anyone in their right mind want to emulate a "second class" citizen?
women here, and around the world have been treated so badly in the past and are still treated badly in many places that their initial reaction is unconscious of the fact that their so has decided to be a 2nd class citizen.
I don't need to state the kinds of derogatory remarks that we have all heard or made in our lives. If a women looks at her man, she thinks that HE is the 1st class citizen that maybe she wants to emulate. The accepting women maybe have a higher opinion of themselves that those who reject a cder.
Otherwise, it seems hard to think why , in some way, a woman wouldn't be a little flattered by her man's interest in feminine things--after all, she is a woman, right?
so, is it self-loathing at some level?
why do we hate winners and successful people--is it because we are not them?
It can't be because we like to wear panties--they are actually more comfortable than men's underwear generally.
also, I think that clothes are awash in sexual messages, and that may also make women uncomfortable. there are a number of us who have gynecomastia and while it could be fun to wear a low cut sweater, it would be sending a really bad signal to a lot of folks who would see us. So while I have the boobs, I am not allowed to show them, because of the sexual signals and perhaps competition. Last summer when it was hot here, I wore t-shirts but my boobs were quite prominent and prior to my growth, the women nearby would chat me up, but more then ignored me when they saw my boobs.
Like crossdressing itself, there may be a great number of hidden issues that we may not discover.

[t-girlxsophie]

I think the great thing about this site,is the feeling of support we all have whether we be cd,ts,gg,and even if we disagree on certain points we discuss them with respect for the other person.
I had a look at the CDwives site and when a wife expressed any contentment with their SOs dressing they were told,in no certain terms they were not welcome on there,that was an eye opener for me

[DonniDarkness]

Yes that site caters to haters, and from what i have read in the guestbook, No accepting wives are there, it seems to be a soapbox for women rdy to divorce their husbands.

Most of them seem hurt or angry because their husbands have decieved them. And more than a few posts recommend outing him to all his friends.....lol, evil....just plain evil...

Many of the wives who do not accept seem to be caught up in what they lose from us because we Crossdress. Maybe beacuase they were bad at communicating as husband and wife before CD'ing came to the forefront?

Which brings me to my point here, many Married Couples, get married, start a life, have children, go into debt together....without really knowing each other. I see so many of my married friends go thru these motions and after years of being together they say something like "i dont know what happened to us"..... Its because they got caught up in what they thought the world thinks a "Good Marriage" or "Healthy Relationship" is, when the whole time they have neglected to ask each other what they wanted out of their relationship. Or to speak up when they need romance or attention or sympathy towards their problems they face. And that doesnt even count the difficulties and challenges of being involved with a TG person.

I have been asked by close friends many times- "How do you two do it? Married for so long and still love to be around each other" ......my answer is "Its because we are best friends before we are husband and wife"

Maybe at the end of the day, her acceptance for me as a crossdresser is because she knows me so well as a friend. Or maybe its because she just loves me for who i am....her husband...the crossdresser she fell in love with....

Just being me,
-Donni-

[cordgrass]

I've said this before and I'll say it again--Captain Jack Sparrow



Watch the way he prances around. I'm not saying he is a crossdresser, but he's certainly playing one in the movie. Take away the beard and he's en femme. And Sparrow's definitely an extremely popular sex symbol, the ladies eat him up.

[monica.missil]

I tend to agree suzy. I know in my situation, my ex(when she was soon to be ex) accepted it when I told her of my crossdressing. But now that we have both moved on she tends to just ignore it. Makes me think she accepted it at first to ease her quilt. There are exceptions as we see on this forum. But I have found that a majority are not accepting, even when they live alternative lifestyles themselves.

[ReineD]

Maybe at the end of the day, her acceptance for me as a crossdresser is because she knows me so well as a friend. Or maybe its because she just loves me for who i am....her husband...the crossdresser she fell in love with....

Bingo! This is worth repeating over, and over again.

[Jenny Gurl]

Jody ... it is only women like themselves who stay there. Others move on and come here!

Seriously, there's no amount of hate mongering that will will poison a GG against the CDing if she has a good relationship with her husband to begin with.

Thanks, I needed to hear that. I stumbled upon it on a google search, and found myself reading for a while wanting to gain knowledge from a different perspective. There was a couple who were simply ate up with hate and I could feel it. The sad part was they were spreading it in the disguise of trying to be helpful to a person who is in a confused state of mind and trying to understand the concept. The advice given to a few was horrible ideas for anyone who wanted to try and keep a marriage together. I don't think I will be back to continue reading. My S.O. and I have a good relationship and have found a balance. She appreciates the attributes that being part girl in the brain have brought to the relationship. She came from another marriage with a husband who did not seem to be caring or want to allow her to be herself at all. From what she has told me, I hope I can be everything he wasn't because she deserves the best. Even if she did not understand or accept my being born a CD, I swear she is truly an angel. A very rare find indeed. Thanks again for the kind words.

[Polly R]

Have to agree with just about everything that everyone has said. The one thing I have found in the couple of CDers groups I've been to is that the majority of CDers I've met tend to be wearing blinkers and go off along their own path believing they are self righteous and that other 'normal' people should accept them. They get very intense about what we do to the detriment of everyone, especially their partners. To a certain extent, I have to hold up my hand to my (reasonably supportive) wife and say that on occasions I too have behaved a bit that way but I do try my best to moderate and see things through her eyes. She married someone who presented as a male, behaved like a male and then started to turn into Polly once or twice a week... Yikes, it was a bit rocky in those early days and can be from time to time even now when she's feeling perhaps a little fragile about Polly seemingly starting to get in the way of our marriage.

My two penneth!

xx Polly

[katrinakat]

If you accept and love yourself, other will too! It's all about deciding who you want to let into your "pink world". Don't rush it, and little by little u, dressing in femme becomes less of a "THING"!!!
I've dressed so often with some of my girlfriends that its not even noticed. OK, of course its noticed, but its become more typical and less a big deal.

Lastly, don't take yourself too serious!! Have fun!!!!!!