yes, but plenty of TVs also sport outlandish outfits, especially if they are fetish related. think rocky horror picture show.Originally Posted by Xandria
yes, but plenty of TVs also sport outlandish outfits, especially if they are fetish related. think rocky horror picture show.
How can all you girls joke about such an important subject. I'll have you know this Big old TV has a CD built in. The two are just inseperable.
ahhh touche!! very true indeed
Sissystephanie, you are free to call yourself whatever you want, but your advanced age and years of crossdressing does not entitle you to trump what Frederique chooses to call herself. If you want to know the definition of words, go to a dictionary, not a doctor.
Nicole, I was not trying to trump what Frederique calls herself. I was just pointing out that she does not fit the true definition of a Transvestite. And the word Transvestite was coined by a Doctor, not a dictionary! Dictionarys do have definitions for words, but people with knowledge, such as Doctors, can improve on those definitions.
And Rianna, you probably are right. I live in the U.S.A. and my definitions are from that country. I have no idea what they are in the U.K.
Last edited by sissystephanie; 03-08-2011 at 09:48 PM.
Stephanie
Lady on the outside, but man underneath!
I said I was probably wrong and goes to show that I too have a lot to learn. It really doesn't matter to me in the long run and as I said "be what you must be and feel inside". Thank you Xandria for the link. I appreciate it when someone goes the extra mile to help educate. Let me also mention I don't go out in public dressed so I am living a sheltered life when it comes to this subject and I guess I shouldn't give an opinon on something that I really don't have a clear understandingor knowledge of. I Like your smile too.
xxxooo,
Jeannie
Back in the 60s my mother told me I was a transvestite and explained her views. If she and I had the same conversation today maybe she'd call it crossdressing. My father and my mother's father father were either transvestites or crossdressers so she had seen it all before. I don't think she was trying to apply a label. She was just using the familiar term of that day.
Transvestite: "trans" + "vestia." Cross + clothing.
It's that simple. Given that our English language comes from a variety sources -- one of which happens to be Latin--- yeah, sorry, "transvestite" simply means "one who wears clothing of other sex."
That's me.
Yup.
Do I seek out sexual gratification for dressing like a girl?
No.
I seek out sexual gratification because I have a "Y" chromosome. Can't help it. I was born a man.
And here again, I will state: I think it foolish to a) have two separate terms that are b) alleged to have two separate motivations, because that would imply that there are only two possible motivations for an activity that spans eons and multitudes of variations.
brilliantly stated. simple and true.
[SIZE="3"]~ Androgynous/FTM/Boi ~[/SIZE]
it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved as someone you're not.
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"The fool who persists in his folly will become wise" - William Blake
TV, Cd, What about us poor old DVDs'? We always get left out despite being Doubly Versatile Dressers'.
LoL, I am so glad I am TS, at least I know what to call myself.
[SIZE="2"]I respect your antiquated opinion, Stephanie, but it’s not as cut and dried as you have been led to believe. I recall a similar “discussion” on this very subject we had back in 2009, in which I told you I have heard the exact same description for the word crossdresser, namely the purely sexual connection you are referring to. Yes, I read somewhere that MtF crossdressers are homosexual males who dress as females for their partners – once I became active on this site I read several different “takes” on this issue, to the point where I feel the terms transvestite and crossdresser can have several meanings, according to the decided-upon definition by an individual...
I insist that transvestism is, or can be, as innocent as your idea of crossdressing – why can’t you at least try to see my side of things? Terms and definitions evolve over time, and I feel your personal opinion of the word transvestite is obsolete – I’m here to tell you that transvestites are not necessarily perverted creatures of alternative sexuality, but I don’t expect you to be swayed by anything I have to say...
I sense a certain distaste you have for this implied homosexual connection to crossdressing, and you may be trying to distance yourself from this (in your mind) unfortunate association. That’s too bad, because I represent a non-sexual aspect to crossdressing (or transvestism) that is always overlooked by technical treatises on the subject. I’ve read my share, and I have my own opinions, much like you. I feel that a male who puts on an article of female clothing now and then can rightly be called a crossdresser, while someone who goes “the whole nine yards” may rightly be termed a transvestite, for reasons of clarity. The clothing and presentation adopted by the latter may be for sexual reasons, but not necessarily - who can eliminate the concept that a crossdresser may also be driven by sexual desire or gratification?
I am a transvestite, period, and my feminine attire creates a magical atmosphere that eliminates male characteristics, such as masculinity, sexually-fueled thinking, and stubbornness. I seek to be non-male, and I become yielding, rather than argumentative. Please TRY to understand...
[/SIZE]
How about changing the title to "When does a crossdresser become a transgender?"
As I understand it, TV implies sexual gratification and/or fetish. I myself would not use TV nor CD to "label" my self as I identify as TG although I may actually be TS even though I was initially CD before finding and accepting my self for who I am.
Exactly....Lita hit the nail on the head....ooh but don't break ur nail doing it!
Last edited by kristinacd55; 03-09-2011 at 07:50 AM.
Sort of like "colored" to "negro" to "black" to "African American".Beats me Hon. Back in the 1960's I was called a TV, now they call us CD's. Flavor of the decade I guess. Personally I think of myself as myself, title optional.
For some folks. I've been dressing for perhaps fifty years. While I like to pretend I'm a female from time to time, given the choice of permanently becoming one, I think I would decline.
Last edited by az_azeel; 03-09-2011 at 05:31 PM. Reason: merged consective posts.. please use your edit button
[SIGPIC]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=82706&dateline=137762 0356[/SIGPIC]Linda
I guess many people have their own idea of what a crossdresser is, and if that's different from what a transvestite is. Some people think that, regardless of how the dictionary defines it, transvestite is a less desirable thing to be called. I think Frederique was right on when she said that Sissystephanie's intention (of defining terms as she chooses) is to distance herself from the negative connotation many associate with the term "transvestite". Language does change over time. In this modern age, we should use modern terms as found in modern references. And most of them say the terms mean the same thing.How about changing the title to "When does a crossdresser become a transgender?"
Regarding Kristina's quote, the term "transgender" is a broader term, and includes those who are CD/TV, TS, gay, lesbian, bi, etc. However, here on the forum there are those who want to hijack the term for use as a more specific type of crossdresser: those who dress because they have a femme identity as opposed to those who dress for pleasure. They say "I'm not a crossdresser, I'm transgendered". Again, it seems to be an attempt to separate identity dressers from pleasure dressers by warping definitions.
Why do people have such a problem with those who dress for sex or other pleasure?
Nicole, I agree with most of what you say, but just want to pick one nit:
Transgender is separate from Gay, Lesbian and Bi because those are sexual orientations and Transgender is not about sexual attraction. To the extent that your statement is true, then Transgender also includes heterosexuals
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
CD, TV, DVD, Y (chromosome) and even Bunny Ears!So many comments here made me giggle as well as took me deep into thought.
I've learned A LOT ... Thank you for all the information!!
I do have a question ... It there a specific term for CD / TV who only prefer same sex relationships? Obviously I know they would be homosexuals, but what about adding CD'ing to the homosexuality?
I hope that's not a stupid question.
"Transgender is generally used as a catch-all umbrella term for a variety of individuals, behaviors, and groups centered around the full or partial reversal of gender roles."
Rianna, I don't disagree with you. It's the same argument as the crossdresser/transvestite issue: it depends on what a person relies on as a source of authority.
The definition that began this post was from a dictionary, and was followed by: "but there are other definitions" and went on to describe that some use the term to describe only gender behaviors, not sexual. But I have also read sources that use the term to include sexual behavior.
As I said many crossdresser/transvestite discussions ago, I can live with whatever terms we want to use, if others wll also. Maybe we should have a glossary to reference for purposes of discussions on the forum. It ought to make communication better.
I have fairly extensive contacts within the LGB part of the LGBT movement. None of my friends in the LGB community see themselves as being Transgender. At a recent LGBT event about "coming out" in the public eye, even the speakers who referred to "LGBT people" also stated that Transgender people currently face the same sort of difficulties that LG & B folk faced 20 years ago, so implicitly although they were embracing trans folk, they did not identify as trans themselves. In fact I was acknowledged to be the only trans person at the event.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
Rianna, I guess that means that you will have a trans mission educating these folks.
[SIZE="2"]Not to beat a dead horse, but I feel like writing…
The thing that bothers me is that some people “decide” on a definition for a certain term or word, and then dismiss any other explanation out of hand – it’s frustrating, especially if you’re trying to exchange thoughts with others and learn something. I suppose this is similar to how people will hear or read something voiced by a political candidate, agree with it, then fail to hear anything else the unfortunate individual (or anyone else) has to say. Maybe this is a purely American attribute, but I see a lot of this “holding one’s ground” at all costs. Retreat would be some kind of failure, correct? Why dress as a female and then REMAIN male? I don’t get it…
Obviously, there are many definitions and/or ways of looking at the word transvestite. I believe it had its origins in the theater, way before the current post-Freudian world where nearly everything is seen as a sexual abnormality (and thus a candidate for correction). I submit that something got LOST in the translation, and a perfectly descriptive word has become loathed by the very people who should be embracing it. It happened to me, way back when I first started my crossdressing adventures. I saw myself as a crossdresser at first, but as time went along, and my feminine presentation became more and more elaborate, I reached a point where I KNEW I was a transvestite. Obviously I wondered where I was going, or what I was doing, but I must say that sexual confusion, or an awareness of hitherto unknown sexual urges, never crossed my young mind. Luckily, I didn't have access to the current endless “discussions” about definitions – I simply carried on with the joy of being a transvestite, knowing at all times who I am and what I’m all about. Of course, I embrace alternative lifestyles, so grade me on a curve…
I understand that most people assume transvestites to be abnormalities of human sexuality. I accept that, but it saddens me – clinical or not, this is nothing more than thinly-veiled censure of homosexuality or bisexuality, which, in itself, is another highly bigoted activity. I DON’T understand why my beloved transvestism has to be dragged (pardon the pun) onto the pile of perversion, along with everything else that makes people happy, by the very people who should know better. If you’re going to equate transvestism (and thus alternative sexuality) with perversion, then fail to engage in any meaningful discussion on the issue, I think it’s safe to say there are some closed minds among us…[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]Rather than have a glossary for reference, I would encourage everyone to do their own research into the background behind the terms we take for granted, or simply investigate how or why someone chose to believe (or accept) a definition in the first place. There is always another angle to something – all you have to do is be OPEN to that, whatever it may be…
BTW, the other night I watched the Werner Herzog film Fitzcarraldo. Early in the movie, there is an opera starring Enrico Caruso and Sarah Bernhardt. The latter was “played by a transvestite” – those were the exact words of the director during the DVD commentary. Remember that I said “transvestite” had its origins in the theater. At no time during the performance was there any mention, manifestation of, or intent to interject sexuality, nor was the word “sex” uttered during the commentary, even though there was a transvestite basking in the limelight for all to see…
Frédérique,
Thank you for your enlightening and intelligent posts on this subject matter, and my condolences on the passing of Chester.
Cassie
Hahaha. thats funny OMG
funny how a lot of these definitions are electrical items- CD,TV,Tranny (scots slang for radio) maybe It's true its the way we are wired LOL
We look to Scotland,for all our Ideas of Civilisation-Voltaire
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A woman who loves to wear beautiful clothes is like a flower.
A man who loves to emulate these women is a special flower-a roseFacebook:Sophie Johnson
Transvestite just sounds weird in my opinion.
Crossdresser is a more acceptable term at least for me.
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