Very eloquently put Kelsy. Can't add anything to that one :0)
Hugs
Sejd
Very eloquently put Kelsy. Can't add anything to that one :0)
Hugs
Sejd
Having read through the many answers to this post I will give you all my personal experience.
I went to a gender therapist. She was a PHD and a well known doctor in these matters. I don't regret the time or money I spent and she did help me come to terms with my gender "disorder" (whatever we name it). But one thing really was missing throughout this whole experience, the understanding that I was living with a wife and that we had raised 3 kids, that I had a job, and that I was not looking for a divorce. Not at any time did this therapist prepare me for the conflicts or struggle which was ahead and there was no talk about incorporating the family pattern or how to struggle this out together in this difficult situation. The same therapist recommended people I know for surgery although I sincerely doubt that they were advocates for this transition. I am telling you all this because there seem to be a lack of understanding for the "whole picture" in the minds of some gender therapist and their education. This result, unfortunately, in many TG people are pushed into complete transition and after that finds themselves absolutely without any support systems or family or friends. Now how is that for a journey? I think : maybe not what is needed. Life is many things, and means a lot of different things to different people. I believe that finding our true gender is important, and it is our task to find ways to satisfy that need , but we also live in a quilt of community which holds us and through which we also live and breathe.
I wish that the gender therapeutic community will include our whole patterns of family, children and friends and work to find holistic solutions for all trans gender people.
Jenny, your remarks are very insightful. You obviously understand that "looks" are only part of the equation, and that one needs the courage to stand-up to the mean spirited folk amongst us if they are going to survive and then thrive in their reconditoned body.
Marie
Sejd: As you no doubt know, some of the more sought after GRS surgeons are TS themselves. Yet, we seldom hear of "therapists" that are TG/TS. If "experience is truly the best teacher", we need more TG counselors to guide patients through the troubled waters you so clearly pointed out.
-- Nice job skylining the issues that far too many "therapists" are unable to advise their patients about!
Marie
Dear Sejd,
I think you just got a lousy therapist. Really. Unless you are leaving stuff out, what you have told us borders on incompetence. OF COURSE you don't live in a vacuum. Of course you have family, friends, a job, and other responsibilities. What could she have been thinking?
Being "pushed" into transition is almost criminal. Some caregivers have lost their license to practice over things like this. I hope that others don't have to go through this.
BTW, hon, how's your music coming? I still remember that beautiful song you sung about the arctic.
Lovies,
Stephie
Last edited by Stephenie S; 04-06-2011 at 01:28 PM.
Hi Stephie
that comment about my music really warms my heart. And to answer your question, my music is doing great. A year ago, I signed on with a life coach and it has resulted in a fantastic journey into the core of my musical aspirations. I have already performed more this past year than the ten years before and I like it. As to my therapist, yes, she had some real shortcomings, and I think she has caused damage to others as well. She was not at total disaster, and I learned a lot about myself and my trans gender soul, but I wish she had been more holistic in her practice. Luckily, I am 60 and I know how to think for myself also, so it's OK. I just don't want to see others go down the road of blinded individualism which can cause so much harm to someone who is otherwise in a fruitful relationship if you know what I mean.
JennyA --
I agree, hormones are not a good idea for you. I'm not sure if continuing the therapy is either - that's for you to decide. While the affects of HRT are a little more than a placebo, it does make sense that if you do not need them, then the risks are not worth the potential gain. Live your life the way you want, society will accept or not, there is very little you can do to alter that outcome.
Last edited by CharleneT; 04-06-2011 at 11:56 PM.
There is a road—no simple highway—between the dawn and the dark of night.
And if you go no one may follow. That path is for your steps alone.
My counselor is TS.Originally Posted by MarieTG
Just had my endo and blood work done yesterday - if all goes well I'll have my prescription in a week
Basically there was no gate to speak of here in NYC. I paid $24 to go to one session with a counselor at the GIP (gender identity project) (i have 15 more yet in their program), which was based on my income, and then because I am under 25 years old, I was able to get free, expedited clinical services through Callen-Lorde Medical Center (trans specialized medical center here) at their mobile unit, where I got endo, bloodwork, and HIV/std screening. Next week I'll go and get my results and hopefully a prescription, and they'll teach me how to use the hormones and then I'm off, with check ups, of course.
Last edited by Avana; 04-06-2011 at 11:11 PM.
Sejd,
Your comments have given me even more confidence that my therapist has the right approach.
From day one she began examining my interpersonal relationships and the impact that my
desired changes will have. Daphne always tempers my deep need to hurry the process with laying out
the possible repercussions of my choices. She is very careful with movin toward SRS and presents SRS as
only one of many options to deal with my dysphoria. She wants me well prepared and progressing with
my eyes wide open.
Avana,
Much like your medical facility, Fenway Health in Boston is a fantastic place for GLBT folks. I love it
There and my doctor is gorgeous ah I mean great!
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
Mutilating Gender
Dean Spade
Interesting read on this subject -
"the disciplinary power exercised by the gatekeepers (doctors, surgeons, psychiatrists, therapists) of SRS requires the repetitive, norm producing exercises to which Foucault refers. The “successful” (real life experience) daily performance of normative gender is a requirement for receiving authorization for body alteration.[27] Similarly, the successful recitation of the transsexual narrative in meeting after meeting with medical professionals, and in session after session with counselors and psychiatrists, is essential to obtaining such authorization."
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
I like my therapist, I see her every other week and she charges $75 for an hour and a half. The first day she asked me the usual back ground questions, asked me about my family so on and so forth at the end of our session she asked me "so what do you want to do?" I sheepishly said that I thought I was "leaning" toward transition fully expecting a barrage of insults. Instead she said I have a better physique then most and that hormones would likely do a lot for me. I didn't mind waiting three month to make sure my desire for hormones didn't change. she recently ask me when I started full time, I thought, well I'm not out to my one of my kids nor my parents so I guess I'm not full time yet. She felt that since I was out everywhere else she considered that full time. Following the guidelines? Yes. Gatekeeper? No.
it seems to me that its worth waiting a year (not a very long time really) and letting the hormones work their magic, finding out who's with you and who's not, making new friends in your target gender, redefining the friendships you already have (this will happen), growing out your hair, learning about makeup if so inclined, not to mention for M to F TSes getting rid of facial hair F#@$ FACIAL HAIR!!! I declare war on facial hair! I am not a violent girl but if facial hair walks through my door I'm popping a cap in his ass! B@#$%^&*! Sorry I'm a little bitter, testosterone and all his little friends have had their way with me for long enough. OH NO I swore!, thats not gender normative I'm going to TS hell. Damn I did it again! some girls are just bad.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 04-08-2011 at 03:38 PM.
$75 for an hour and a half doesnt seem so bad
Kelsy's recent post is interesting..and check out this link..
the quote doesnt tell the whole story..
http://www.amptoons.com/blog/2003/05...lating-gender/
The "true ts narrative" has done so much harm to so many...it was the big problem for me...until i found a good therapist, i was totally lost in my own head...i knew in my heart and soul, but my head only knew about the "narrative" which i never fit...
perhaps over the years it was a necessary evil to break through the medical communities own inability to accept and deal with our issue, but i think that the whole gatekeeper question is going away one transsexual at a time.
Kaitlyn,
I went into therapy with a mind to be honest yet when questions about my past gender feelings came up
I could hear myself telling the truth about myself but at the same time thinking "maybe I should add some to my story" out of fear of being judged as less than I knew I was!! I didn't fit a strict transexual definition because My early gender feelings for me were difficult to define and as a child I was aloof, timid and,dependent. I wasn't about rock my survival boat so to speak.
My therapist took my honesty into account and evaluated everything I told her and came to the conclusion that I was indeed transsexual and she wasn't interested in some contrived narrative. I am non-conformist by nature and the thought of having to recite some T-mantra to get something was irksome when what I really wanted was some answers.
K
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
you get what you put in when you talk about therapy... I'm glad you had some success..there are alot of folks that come to these forums and its the first time the run across people that havent memorized the narrative..
did your therapist ever say to you that you were transsexuals BEFORE you concluded it yourself?
I completely refused to recite the script. My first meeting with the doctor authorized to prescribe, I said clearly that I do not currently think of myself as being transsexual, and that if that meant that I couldn't have hormones, then I'd rather not have them. My life is not an Act or a Performance.
I may have suspected that I could be transsexual but I wasn't sure and I never characterized my suspicions as such to Daphne. Her evaluations of my situation led her to her conclusions. I wasn't offering a false narrative and some of my history is nonconforming to the classic transsexual norm
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
*chimes in*
Just wanted to add something to this; it was mentioned that the RLE/RLT was a way to see if you were ready for the issues that would face you down this road. If you were able to cope with it, the reactions of people and so forth...
However, while I fully understand where ppl are coming from with this (it makes sense) there is something about it that I question.
If you are Gender Dysphoric, you are Gender Dysphoric right. Surley regardless of the outcome of a RLE/RLT you are still going to be facing gender issues, and issues that are strong enough to make u need to change genders.
If you dont do anything right now - later you probably will (and later is not always better). If you cannot cope with the reactions of other people/the problems with transition, isnt it a case of which option is the least painful?
Live with the dysphoria, or try and do something about it.
The requirement for being 'Gender Dysphoric' from what my therapist told me is pretty much that its not a symptom of any other mental disorder, and that you have had these feelings for at least 2 years. He does not require you to be living in role for any period of time before they recommend you for treatments etc. As long as you have given indications of transition - such as telling family/changing name etc.
But they deal with everyone on a personal basis, so as it was explained to me. Where I go from here, and how much I do is pretty much up to me and they will simply guide me. He pretty much said that I can take HRT and if I feel better and that works for me, I dont *have* to do more.
Now I am worried/scared over reactions of others. I am aiming at a full transition, and a problem I face with that is that I am a shy/underconfident/timid person by nature.
How am I going to cope with something that seems to take so much confidence and determination/inner strength? A therapist (non gender one) told me that there is some irony in there. Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy. But then, perhaps it will make me stronger. It's almost going to be like a crash course.
As i said I am worried/scared over what the future might bring in this regard (as well as all the other standard worries with transition) but I know that I am going to face these worries and fears no matter when I act. All I will be doing is putting it off, and I am already regretting 6 wasted years of trying to run away from this issue. I know not acting is not going to solve anything. If I go out and its horrible, peoples reactions are bad I know I will likley find myself in bits. But, I also know that if I do nothing, if I keep running away because of all the fear/difficulties/problems I could/will face, at some point I wont be able to cope at all, and I worry about what will happen then more.
In a lot of was you have summed up quite well what people get from the RLE with that last sentence.
Although probably quite rare, there are some people who get a bit caught up with the idea of transitioning but when they come to live the life and socialise and work 24/7 as a woman find that they cannot take it. For them, complete transition would be a disaster and living with a sense of something not being right is the less painful option.
It may even be that periodic cross-dressing is all that a person in that situation needs to cope with their gender but that a combination of the "pink fog" and unrealistic expectations of what life as a woman would be like had pushed them too far too fast.
Wouldn't you agree that it is better for someone such as I have described to find out their mistake through the RLE rather than to press ahead with surgery only for that to make them permanently depressed?
You will probably find that many of us were quite shy and lacking in self-confidence precisely because of our Gender Dysphoria. The fact that you are worried about what you are aiming to do is one of the best indications that you are not just rushing into it because it seems like a good thing to try.
People keep telling me that I am brave to have come out publicly and to have begun my transition. I did not understand what they meant until I read a definition of brave as being afraid of what you are about to do but going ahead with it regardless of the fears.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I'm pretty shy. In person I'm usually fairly quiet, which is a combination of listening to what other people have to say, and not wanting to force my opinions on to others. I am under-confident about a fair number of aspects of "life". On the other hand, put me in front of a crowd of people and name a topic I know something about professionally and I can give an ad-hoc hour-long lecture and run out of time. There are some things I rate myself quite highly on... but knowledge of Where I Am Going With All Of This is not one of them!
My General Practitioner tells me most times how "brave" I am, how courageous I am, to explore gender. I suspect that sometimes I outright roll my eyes when he says those things. Bravery doesn't have much to do with it: I'm doing what I have to do. Though from the point of view of my GP, he is right, in that he thinks being TG is a choice -- well, yeh, if it is a choice, then considering my anxieties, Sure going ahead with it would be bravery... but it isn't a choice with me.
I have several thoughts to the subject of RLE and the gatekeepers. I was fortunate in that I have a fantastic Clinical Psychologist who recommended Hormones after she understood that this was a process that would happen for me. I have received hormone treatment through my GP and will only now after seven months have a consultation with an endocrinologist because I had some questions. I have started RLE one week ago and completely out and working as Kathryn.
There is not much more than what has been said about the RLE. Most aspects have been covered. The real issue is that two things are confirmed. Firstly, are there any co-morbidity issues that are underlying the desire to be in a different gender other than GID and secondly, has the person proven to themselves that they can sustain a life in a different gender and reasonably succeed. The accompanying therapy through RLE is necessary for the care giver to provide a comprehensive assessment and recommendation for surgery more than treatment which usually by that time has been ongoing for some time. The issues that we need to be able to deal with are can we be reasonably attractive as a person (not as a gender) so that we can maintain social relationships, and can we withstand adversity of dealing with being a transgendered person in the workplace. If you can withstand RLE then there is little reason not to have surgery.
I just had my first week of full on professional work as Kathryn. I know, and I have known that this is the right decision and this will be nothing but good. (Which does not mean that I was not very nervous this week).
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
In all honesty, I feel that when I read your posts that you will have no problem at all with living as a woman if that's what you want to do... that's just an observation*chimes in*
Just wanted to add something to this; it was mentioned that the RLE/RLT was a way to see if you were ready for the issues that would face you down this road. If you were able to cope with it, the reactions of people and so forth...
However, while I fully understand where ppl are coming from with this (it makes sense) there is something about it that I question.
If you are Gender Dysphoric, you are Gender Dysphoric right. Surley regardless of the outcome of a RLE/RLT you are still going to be facing gender issues, and issues that are strong enough to make u need to change genders.
If you dont do anything right now - later you probably will (and later is not always better). If you cannot cope with the reactions of other people/the problems with transition, isnt it a case of which option is the least painful?
Live with the dysphoria, or try and do something about it.
The requirement for being 'Gender Dysphoric' from what my therapist told me is pretty much that its not a symptom of any other mental disorder, and that you have had these feelings for at least 2 years. He does not require you to be living in role for any period of time before they recommend you for treatments etc. As long as you have given indications of transition - such as telling family/changing name etc.
But they deal with everyone on a personal basis, so as it was explained to me. Where I go from here, and how much I do is pretty much up to me and they will simply guide me. He pretty much said that I can take HRT and if I feel better and that works for me, I dont *have* to do more.
Now I am worried/scared over reactions of others. I am aiming at a full transition, and a problem I face with that is that I am a shy/underconfident/timid person by nature.
How am I going to cope with something that seems to take so much confidence and determination/inner strength? A therapist (non gender one) told me that there is some irony in there. Being what I am (shy/quiet/underconfident etc) and then facing such an issue that seems to require the exact opposite is something thats not going to be easy. But then, perhaps it will make me stronger. It's almost going to be like a crash course.
As i said I am worried/scared over what the future might bring in this regard (as well as all the other standard worries with transition) but I know that I am going to face these worries and fears no matter when I act. All I will be doing is putting it off, and I am already regretting 6 wasted years of trying to run away from this issue. I know not acting is not going to solve anything. If I go out and its horrible, peoples reactions are bad I know I will likley find myself in bits. But, I also know that if I do nothing, if I keep running away because of all the fear/difficulties/problems I could/will face, at some point I wont be able to cope at all, and I worry about what will happen then more.
Being shy and afraid is normal and many of us share your feelings of these things.
no one can promise that everything will work out..if i can parse out what you are really afraid of , you seem to worry that your fears and shyness will lead you to give up on your RLE ..which you think would be
the wrong conclusion and cause you to give up on transitioning..
the interesting thing you are missing here is this....if you go out and do RLE and you hate it because you are a nervous wreck, then you stop....you will find out for sure about your GID at this point.....this is exactly what a friend of mine did...she was so nervous and anxious and scared...she got facial surgery before even trying to ever go out as a woman...she did RLE for six weeks and was a nervous wreck...she stopped...she cut her hair...etc...she actually had to call her boss and say she was going back to male mode...!!! Well that lasted for about 5 weeks and ended with a bathtub suicide attempt...later on she told me that she "KNEW" more about herself after giving up RLE ...that she never felt more sure of her femaleness until after giving up RLE, and that she was secretly continuing her HRT .....
How interesting! All this is to say that if you take the broadest view of RLE...it is a test....but its under your control, and your RESPONSIBILITY to yourself is to go out there ..collect the data (yes i'm a mathemetician) and make the best decision for you..that's regardless of rules, regardless of caregivers opinions...its up to you...totally, completely, utterly up to you...and that's the scary part...not RLE itself......
one caveat to all this is i don't know how the UK system works..i know in the US you can doctor and therapist shop, even online to get what you need but i'm not sure that's possible in the UK..perhaps in the UK it is more difficult to do this more on your own...
Oh yes, definatly. However I just dont see how its any indication of treatment if say someone is unable to live as they desire because the social pressures are too much. It seems like a person living with GID is going to be inherently damaged in some way - depressed/isolated/and various other issues that result. So asking them to go live as female for X amount of time to see how it goes, without any prep or treatment seems rigged to fail them.Wouldn't you agree that it is better for someone such as I have described to find out their mistake through the RLE rather than to press ahead with surgery only for that to make them permanently depressed?
I can honestly say that personally, I dont have any expectations of what it would be like to be female, other than it would be to live how I feel I need to (and want). I don't think it will be easier/better/magical or anything. Girls have just as many social hurdles as males, just different ones. And they also have the advantage of being born female (I do not).
I can't say that I am much of a crossdresser. Its infrequent, unimportant. Clothes do not change who/what you are - I do like makeup though. It has a very big impact on a face and def makes a big difference. I do so much so want to be able to wear female clothes I like and see (but know that right now, id look hideious and feel just as much so! so no point)
The main thing about RLE that worries me is if I am not ready, if I get attacked/shouted at etc or otherwise harassed. If I end up feeling that I am not passing (sorry I know some people dislike that term) and feel I have to give up for that reason. Just so I can live my life day to day without issue. That would be a very depressing situation, and how would I deal with it.
But eitherway, its something I will never know until I try. If I end up on HRT for 6 months, try RLE and fail horrifically and feel depressed and want to give up..... well it will have been a lesson at least. And if that happens I hope its one that helps me move forward (if thats to try again, or to decide that living with the dysphoria is the least painful).
I think its a bit like how the only way you really learn what "hot" means, is when you burn your fingers.
Also thanks Kaitlyn, I know I post around a lot at times (mostly ramblings on fear/insecurities etc). I don't think I will have any issues at all living as female from a personal pov, because nothing will change - I will just feel happier (I hope) being myself. When it comes to facing strangers and social situations, I of course have reservations and will just have to face those when the time comes.
I always try to "fade" into the background, not be noticed. Just get on with what I am doing and hope no one notices me, its the only way I feel comfortable. Yet at the same time, it also makes me feel isolated. Unless I am VERY VERY lucky, I am not going to blend in if I try to project 'female' so my goals are mostly to try and border on androgynous/female-side while out and about. At least at first, if for nothing but to avoid being hassled. When it comes to more personal situations (job? courses? family) well hopefully will be more able to be how I want.
I have pondered if I should be going for stealth, or should not try to hide what I am. In peoples experiences, what is best?
Exactly right. I got to the point where I had to know what HRT would do to me. If it didn't work out, if I couldn't stand the drugs for some medical reason, if I was one of the people who it ended up depressing instead of helping: those were all acceptable outcomes compared to my need to try.
It seems to me that if a person can't live in the new gender role, then this is a good indicator to the healthcare/support professionals of the sort of treatment that they need to help overcome the Gender Dysphoria.
If we skip the RLE and go direct to surgery, then we lose the opportunity to address the issues that would make it difficult for someone to live their new gender.
Remember that the start of the RLE is fixed not by some arbitrary measure, but by the patient. Some wait until hormones have kicked in, some want FFS before they start and others can't survive long enough to wait for things like that.
Since you set the start point for RLE, why would you choose to start before you felt ready?
Unfortunately, we do not live in an ideal world and we do get pointed at, have snide comments made and some get attacked for who we are. Others get hurtful remarks plastered all over the national gutter press, but we survive.
Sooner or later, if you are going to transition, you will have to start living in your new gender, only you can decide when you are ready for that, but your reaction to the RLE will help the professionals give you the level of support that you need.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
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