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Thread: Milestone...first real date with a guy...

  1. #126
    New Member JulietteLeblanc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    ... someone can certainly be stealth without having undergone surgery if they are single, or only their partner could know if they are in a relationship
    Exactly. Which is why I'm having such difficulty with the word "stealth" (and "disclosure"). I was "stealth" (or close enough) long before SRS to most people in my everyday life, after SRS I was "stealth" also to some men I dated, but I never was and never will be "stealth" to my dad or to my daughter. It's all very relative, and imho being stealth ultimately only refers to how you are perceived by strangers you meet every day -- and how the people that know talk about you (pronouns and such).

    The only figure I've heard of, and pls add or correct if anyone knows more, is that 1 out of every 500 people would have or have had gender issues - which would include every possible state of transition. That would mean that a LOT of people would be perceived as cis in society (as Michelle is saying), but in their personal lives, I would assume they aren't "stealth" to absolutely everyone.
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  2. #127
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JulietteLeblanc View Post
    The only figure I've heard of, and pls add or correct if anyone knows more, is that 1 out of every 500 people would have or have had gender issues - which would include every possible state of transition.
    That's probably as valid as any. One report said 1:1000, another said 1:100. I have no idea what the study criteria were, but if that included every possible transition state I'd accept 1:500. If it included ever possible transgender state I could believe 1:100.

    I'll take Juliette's 1:500 as a pretty good figure.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  3. #128
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.Martin View Post
    I am part of several societal subsets and I just don't want to be bothered just because someone else has a thesis to get written. My life is just more valuable to me living it than it is being a set of data on a clipboard. Now, if I actually believed that my participation would help a trans person on their way toward their new life, that might be different.
    I'm taking this a little off topic, but participation in any study does ultimately benefit the members of the trans community. It is the studies that change things like the definitions in the DSM.
    Reine

  4. #129
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    i wonder if the words trip up the reality..."stealth" is just a word..."disclosure" "hiding", "lies" "deceit" ...ugh...these are all words that are used when talking about our lives....
    but maybe they don't do a good job describing what is really happening..

    we are born in a gender role that often ends up destroying our quality of life.....so many of us change our birth gender role and try to live a high quality of life...
    but the reality is every single day of your life, it's possible as a TS that the past encroaches on your happiness and quality of life..there is no way around this...
    and you just have to deal with it...

    and just like it deeply matters to us, to me it makes sense that people care about the genders of their friends/lovers etc....
    if a friend/lover/coworker finds out about our male past, they will usually react...and their reaction can be many things and some reactions may even be violent...it's a challenge...and once the person knows...it's forever...and once one person knows, oftentimes everybody knows...
    and we just have to deal with it..
    just because we feel we are in the right doesnt mean its easy to lose a lover or a job over being outed....and whether we like it or not..people's feelings are often hurt if they "find out"

    those two things are tough to handle and it's a very unpredictable problem...it can be a stressful thing..we can say who cares what others think, but that's easier said than done...nobody wants to lose a friend or a lover or even a job just because of who you are..

  5. #130
    Senior Member boardpuppy's Avatar
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    I have been lurking in this thread, trying to educate myself for something I hope to be a reality in the future. From a very selfish prospective it will be a great lose to us younger girls for you to leave but I understand if you decide otherwise. As to the orginal question and intent, you rock girl.......go for it.

  6. #131
    Just A Simple Girl Michelle.M's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I'm taking this a little off topic, but participation in any study does ultimately benefit the members of the trans community. It is the studies that change things like the definitions in the DSM.
    I can buy that up to a point. A commissioned study presented as such before some entity (AMA, APA, WPATH) that would have impact on the community - sure. An end of course thesis to complete one person's degree requirement - probably not.

    And besides (to get back on track, because I'd feel guilty if I let the thread stray) the issue behind my reluctance to participate in a study is personal privacy as a basis for being stealth, or at least stealth-y. And that's the thing that makes it possible to just live your life as a woman, as a normal person and not as some circus sideshow or test subject or some trans organism in a really big petri dish.

    I'm not a set of data. I'm a person. And while I'm all for helping people understand I can also do that one on one.
    Last edited by Michelle.M; 05-20-2011 at 04:24 PM.
    I've gone to find myself. If I should return before I get back keep me here to wait for me so I don't go back out and miss myself when I return.

  7. #132
    Just an average girl Carole Cross's Avatar
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    This thread is supposed to be about Julie's date with a guy, not an arguement about when she should tell him that she is trans. She has already stated in the original post that she will tell him before it becomes intimate, I don't see why she has to tell him before then. If he is genuinely intersted then that shouldn't be an issue, everyone has a past life before they start dating.

    All i have to say is congrats Julie
    living the dream

  8. #133
    Not sure where I am yet Jay Cee's Avatar
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    I plead with all who are participating into turning this into a rather heated debate: Please stop. Take a deep breath, and ask yourself "Is it really worth getting my blood pressure up about someone else's opinion?"

    Zenith, I am very happy for you. Tthere are no right or wrong answers to the dilemma you face. You'll know when to tell him.

  9. #134
    That's right, I did it Sharon's Avatar
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    I have two iron-clad rules:

    1 - thou shalt not post thy bigoted words in my forum;

    2 - thou shalt not troll thy bigoted words in my forum.

    Words of advice are wonderful no matter a person's opinions, but hostile ignorance is never welcome.




    Okay now, back to the topic at hand:

    I'm beyond happy for you, Julie, and I hope your relationship with Mr. X proves to be all you want from a relationship.

  10. #135
    Silver Member linda allen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Linda, you never did answer these questions by Frances....
    Since Linda hasn't answered that question for Frances & the rest of us here, I think I will answer it on his behalf
    after I took a look at some of his postings. Linda indicates in his postings that he is a closet CD & not even his
    wife knows about his cross-dressing desires or habits & here is why I say this....

    Do you recall any of these statements you made in the most recent thread you posted Linda?

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...think-so.-quot

    No Linda you are not realistic, you are extremely transphobic, to the point you can't even be honest with your wife!

    So please cut the crap. I also strongly suspect that you hide your face in your avatar because fear anyone knowing
    anything about you. Your knowledge about transsexualism is obviously very limited & you have no experience to have
    any sort of qualified opinion about what others should be doing. It's also extremely hypocritical that you are advising
    Julie here to be honest when you can't even be honest to your wife.

    Julie seems like the type of girl who is very happy about being in 'stealth-mode' because she passes so well & I think
    that you have some issues with that because you don't pass at all & cannot even be honest to your own wife. So as
    far as I am concerned, your personal opinion is extremely hypocritical & means absolutely nothing to me & others here.

    PS: Linda are you still borrowing your wife's clothes every time she turns her back & is away?
    Melody,

    You have gone to a great deal of trouble attempting to discredit me. You have looked up my past posts and quoted some of them in this attempt. You have insulted me by calling me names. I believe this crosses the line.

    I should feel honored that anyone would consider me or my opinions important enough to go to all this trouble.

    I suspect though, that for some reason, you just don't like me. I can't think of anything I've ever posted that would make you feel this way, but quite honestly, I haven't, given your posts the same consideration that you have apparently given mine.

    I don't believe it's a requirement of this forum to be transgender or anything else for that matter. GGs are allowed to post, CDs are allowed to post, and I suppose anyone who can be somewhat polite and has something to say is allowed to post.

    A discussion forum where everybody just echoed the same opinion on every issue would be a waste of time. I know I don't need to join a forum just to see everybody agreeing with me or patting me on the back.

    My advice to the OP was just that; my advice. It differes from your advice and from the advice posted by several memebers, yet I feel I am entitled to post it for the OP to consider.

    In this case, I'm posting from the perspective not of someone who is transgendered or spends a lot of time in the company of gay, lesbian, or transgendered people, but of someone living in the "mainstream" of society. If I understand the OP, she is dating someone from "mainstream" society. Someone who may not know a lot about CD, transgender, etc.

    That's where my advice comes from and all I ask is the right to post it without a bunch of hateful responses.

    Thank You.
    [SIGPIC]http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=82706&dateline=137762 0356[/SIGPIC]Linda

  11. #136
    Be free - overcome fear!
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    Linda, first of all I have gone to no trouble & never was it my intention to discredit you - you did that to yourself
    in your own hypocritical statements - so you cannot blame me. I read quite a few of your posts at the time when
    you posted them although I never interjected into those discussions because it was something that is your issue
    & that only 'you' could deal with. Finding these posts with the statements you made was very easy, so it was no
    trouble at all, so don't flatter yourself in thinking that I went to a whole lot of trouble because of you because I didn't.

    As for not liking you, you are wrong about that, I don't dislike anyone. I only dislike certain behaviours and it happens
    that hypocritical & dishonest behaviour is one thing I am not really fond of. Frances asked you a question of you were
    transsexual, because if you are not, then I am afraid to say that you don't understand why it is so important for some
    of us to be just accepted as females. There has been good argument here why we don't have to reveal our past to other
    people. I am one of those who believes that 100% honesty is important, so anyone that gets really close to me will know,
    but still, it is my prerogative if I chose to disclose that information. So I respected both those that disclose & those that
    choose not to disclose their past or their desires & also respected you even though you haven't disclosed anything to
    your partner. That is fine if that is your thing, but don't be standing there on a soapbox telling others what to do when
    you cannot practice what you preach OK? especially when you don't really appreciate their perspective as transsexual
    females. Others here also had issues with it and it's why Frances said that you were "projecting your own feelings on
    Julie's love interest(s). And so was Rebecca.
    ". Also Michele Martin pointed out "That projection of fear is the basis of
    what we'd call transphobic
    ".

    You will be quite surprised how many transgender people are transphobic, there will be times that some people might
    have real fears about others knowing about who we were in the past. I also think you are one of those people Linda,
    you are transphobic because you don't want someone to know that you are a cross-dresser. So it's safe to say that
    you also fall into this category, There are some out there as well that want to be 100% stealth that could also fall
    into this category as well. However it is also harder to determine if they are transphobic because there are those
    that just want to be seen, accepted & respected no different to other females. So you can't just accuse someone.

    Even though I am one of those who doesn't want to be seen differently to other females, I don't believe that I am
    personally transphobic because I have no fear & don't really care if someone knows I am transsexual. But having said
    that I am not exactly going to go around advertising that fact & will only tell those that needed to know such as family
    & close friends etc. And if someone questioned my gender, then depends who is asking, I might explain, because I have
    no reason to lie, but I also have no need to really tell them anything.

    But having said that, there are situations where there are legal limitations to how much information people can glean
    from you, this is especially the case when it comes to employers. In a lot of places, (especially in Australia) nowadays
    employers have no legal right to be questioning your gender identity due to new human rights/anti-discrimination & work
    place laws. If they did this, then it raises the question of discrimination of a person because of their gender identity.

    So as Frances pointed out to you earlier, "not telling upfront doesn't equal lying", especially about your past. Even
    you are not required to tell anyone that you are a cross-dresser because that is also defined as being transgender.

    Laws have been changed to cater for those of us who are transgender, especially those who are TS and/or post op where
    they can get the gender markers changed on every documents including drivers licences, birth certificates & passports etc.
    This is so our gender markers all match up to help avoid discrimination or dealing with humiliating situations. There is no
    requirement in law to divulge that we are transgender or transsexual, instead the laws are there to protect us & our rights.

    So what makes you think that anyone else the right to have to know about someone's past, or former gender identity?
    I think is all that really matters is what is going on here & now & in the future, especially in your own life Linda.

    If a guy falls for Julie for the person she is, seeing her & accepting Julie as a female, then that is the person her
    boyfriend is more than likely falling in love with. The past has very little to do with it & it won't have any real impact
    on their relationship if this guy understands that Julie cannot have kids. However even that still does not necessitate
    the need to know about Julie's past because she as been born with a gender defect that prevents her from having kids.

    Hey I just realised something, let me share part of my story with you, I never though about this until now.

    My second last partner who I was married to for 5 years couldn't have kids, because apparently she had had a complete
    hysterectomy sometime before I met her when she was just 33 years of age, but she already had 2 sons by the age of 18.

    So she could have been their father & also a MtF transsexual who transitioned in her late teens & early 20's for all I know.
    Who knows? her 2 sons could have fully adjusted to her role now as their mother. She was also Bisexual. I never had a
    reason to question her about her gender before & not that it really ever mattered anyway & I certainly don't care now.

    My main point is that even though my ex-wife couldn't ever have kids to me. It didn't make her any less a woman,
    so being trans is no different to any of this. I don't see any reason really why Julie should even have to reveal her
    past as a transsexual, because Julie is by now all legal & medical definition a 'female'.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 05-23-2011 at 07:45 PM.

  12. #137
    That's right, I did it Sharon's Avatar
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    Sigh..., I guess some people just want to ignore the thread itself and insult the original poster and the majority of forum members with nonsensical bickering that would be better placed in a personal message.

    I'm seriously getting fed up having to moderate behavior around here, folks!
    “I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”
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