Some people are against - warning! controversial

[CaitlynRenee]

Kendra, you are STUNNING to say the least. I'm glad you've come to accept who you are, dispite past difficulties in your CDing life. You've triumphed and that's what's important.

As for Mr. Rodney King, he had a great line that's been quoted often. I wish we all COULD just 'get along' and we CDers for the most part are more tolerant than the general public. The reality of Mr. King though is that as a Deputy Sheriff, I saw the full news clip of Mr. King's assault on a female deputy before he was subdued, not just the newsreels published account. He almost killed her. He had no tolerance at all then.

Still, you've made a great point with charm and gentility. Thanks.

[ReineD]

It seems to frame crossdressers & transgender people as purely paraphilic and often affected with obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD). I'm sure there are cd'ers with OCD, but you might as well put gambling, and excessive handwashing or housecleaning in there too.

I don't think anyone is saying that TGs are purely paraphilic, least of all the blog author. Look at his blog titles. He is speaking for himself.

But obviously this person has issues with it, as do the other bloggers he links to. The CDing is a trigger for THEM. And as Kendra pointed out, judging by the sheer volume of TG porn sites out there, it may well be an issue for many others. In one of the blogs, the author describes a difficulty focusing at work because he was preoccupied with thoughts of what outfit to buy next and fantasies of himself wearing it. He simply felt that all the time spent thinking about it, plus doing all the online "research", diminished his productivity. Kudos to him for recognizing this. GGs don't spend their days day dreaming of the next outfits and picturing themselves in it.

If these men want to stop CDing, why would their decision not be respected, since they obviously have issues maintaining balance? Why should they not be entitled to support, just as members here receive support to CD?

The first three pages in this thread were less than kind in their judgments, and I wonder why this is. Why would anyone think it is OK to forgo work and/or relationships for the sake of fantasy, unless they are protecting their own fantasies? Just asking.

I do not in anyway like how cding is being compared to being drunk, or being addicted to drugs.

Since I'm the one who mentioned addictions and compulsions (it is the reason one of the bloggers linked to in the OP wishes to stop the CDing), I assume you mean me.

In no way do I say that CDing is an addiction or a disease. So please read my posts again, without taking anything out of context.

[CaitlynRenee]

Marissa, You look fantastic. I like your healthy outlook on your CD activities and how you feel about yourself. Despite your divorce, for whatever reason (and I've been there too), You are handling your CD self very well. Take your time, endulge, enjoy life. As for boxing it all away, I think you would be incredibly unhappy. Marissa is a creative side of you that needs expression. That part of your life that you feel is 'missing' won't last forever. You WILL find the happiness you need. It will come in it's own time though.

BTW, if you ever get down San Antonio way, drop a line. I'll see if I can point out some good places for you to go. There's lots of good food and drink and sight seeing here.

[kendra_gurl]

.

I will say it again. Cross dressing is NOT A DISEASE. It is not wrong. The ONLY thing that makes it wrong is the public's INCORRECT assumptions about it. If it was not for the hatred, or ignorance, or bigotry, or the combination thereof crossdressing would be a non issue.

.

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Addiction

Addiction can also be viewed as a continued involvement with a substance or activity despite the negative consequences associated with it. Pleasure and enjoyment would have originally been sought, however over a period of time involvement with the substance or activity is needed to feel normal.[1] Some psychology professionals and many laymen now mean 'addiction' to include abnormal psychological dependency on such things as gambling, food, sex, pornography, computers, internet, work, exercise, idolizing, watching TV or certain types of non-pornographic videos, spiritual obsession, cutting and shopping.[2][3][4][5]


That pretty much sums it up for me I am addicted to crossdressing and freely admit it

Huge difference between addiction a Disease. Don't thing anyone is saying its a Disease in this thread

Caitlynn Thanks so much for the compliment

[Loni]

it would be far easer for me to grow hair on a bowling ball than to denigh what and who I am.
that blog will be gone soon, no human can forget what they are, one can try and over come there short comings, but the way we are hard wired it would hurt other parts of your self.
for me I love the time spent as Loni and would not want to change a thing....

well except to be able to grow hair on my head.

Loni

[ReineD]

that blog will be gone soon, no human can forget what they are, one can try and over come there short comings, but the way we are hard wired it would hurt other parts of your self.

Loni, not everyone who CDs is hard-wired like you. There are some people who do this for fetish reasons. And some of the fetish CDers don't know how to maintain balance. It turns into a compulsion for them especially if they can't focus on work, negatively impacting the rest of their lives.

If the person who wrote the blog feels there is no other choice for him now than to stop, then no one should condemn him. If, after a period of time he gets back to the CDing, maybe he will have learned enough to try to keep it in perspective so that it doesn't ruin his career, or his relationship if he is in one. This is not about a spouse who refuses to accept this. It is about a man who can't do his job (or possibly have sex with his wife), because of the CDing fantasies.

That's all.

[Marissa]

it would be far easer for me to grow hair on a bowling ball than to denigh what and who I am.
that blog will be gone soon, no human can forget what they are, one can try and over come there short comings, but the way we are hard wired it would hurt other parts of your self.
for me I love the time spent as Loni and would not want to change a thing....

well except to be able to grow hair on my head.

Loni

Loni, some of us are not HARD WIRED...hope you understand that.. I do this because I feel more accepted..and yes, I look better then my drab self.. maybe its sexual only..who knows..but I'm not driven to accept that I'll transition or anything near that.. I won't go 24/7.. I do it when I feel like it..and for my own reasons.. I was not HARD WIRED... I was not born in the wrong body..

Marissa, You look fantastic. I like your healthy outlook on your CD activities and how you feel about yourself. Despite your divorce, for whatever reason (and I've been there too), You are handling your CD self very well. Take your time, endulge, enjoy life. As for boxing it all away, I think you would be incredibly unhappy. Marissa is a creative side of you that needs expression. That part of your life that you feel is 'missing' won't last forever. You WILL find the happiness you need. It will come in it's own time though.

BTW, if you ever get down San Antonio way, drop a line. I'll see if I can point out some good places for you to go. There's lots of good food and drink and sight seeing here.

Thank you..for the kind words..and that is my point..that I am more 'seen' when I'm dressed..then when I'm not..so if i want to mingle with the world..then I feel I have to dress to be accepted.. Not sure if that is what I want..but I will say this.. so much of Marissa that has been discovered, is something that is good to let cross over.. to understand..and see things in different light..

[JulieK1980]

Loni, not everyone who CDs is hard-wired like you. There are some people who do this for fetish reasons. And some of the fetish CDers don't know how to maintain balance. It turns into a compulsion for them especially if they can't focus on work, negatively impacting the rest of their lives.

Something many of us forget. Just because it's true for us, doesn't make it true for ALL of us.

Compulsion is simply defined as doing something that makes you feel more secure repeatedly to the point that it interferes with your daily life
Addiction is simply defined as an inherent need to do something repeatedly either psychologically or physically.

Both of those things can afflict a crossdresser as easily as a person who compulsively shops, or compulsively gambles. Or as easily as an addict repeatedly does drugs to the point of destroying their life due to them feeling it is a "need."

Ultimately what is at issue here is that crossdressing for this person has come to a point that they feel it is negatively impacting the rest of their life professionally and personally. While quitting is probably going to be unsuccessful, it IS imperative for this person to find a way to balance crossdressing with the rest of their life.

The problem is not the crossdressing, the problem is the way crossdressing has effected their life.

[Pythos]

Nope Renie D. It was not about one of your posts. There was one where there was mention of some of the things typed here were like drunks in a bar talking about a fellow drunk quitting being a drunk. Though comical, it is also simply not what CDing is.

[ReineD]

The problem is not the crossdressing, the problem is the way crossdressing has effected their life.

I know I'm out of my area here since I'm not TG, but I've often wondered about this. Perhaps someone can answer it for me, since it fits into the topic.

What is the difference between someone who has a fetish for any number of things (latex, angora, pony play, leather, BDSM, feathers, feet or any other body part, rape ... the list is expansive), and someone who has a fetish for being dressed in women's clothes, either in specific items, or a fetish about becoming a voluptuous, sexy woman?

I'm not talking about a person who wishes to get in touch with a feminine side in any way. Just the fetish, sexual aspect of it, even if it is imagining the self to be a sexy woman who is pleasing a man, which can be a valid fetish of its own that has nothing to do with gender ID.

Would you consider such a person to fall into the realm of transgender? I've tended not to think so in the past, since a fetish is a fetish is a fetish, no matter what form it takes. I mean, a person who has a fetish about looking like a cat is not a cat. A person who has a fetish about steel and chains is not a knight in shining armor. Likewise, a person who has a fetish about latex is not a rubber ball. lol

At any rate, if such a person carries this too far (for example a person who cannot stop thinking about being bound during work hours to the point of being unable to concentrate on work, or a person who cannot have sex with his wife unless he is bound, even if she's not into it), is it accurate to say, if the fetish is wearing women's clothing, that the problem isn't the crossdressing for this person? Would you even describe what this person does as crossdressing, even if he is wearing the clothes for entirely different reasons than most people here who do wish to get in touch with a feminine side?

Where is the fine line?

[Pythos]

Something that seems to creep in is the notion a fetish is bad. Now, there are some I truly think are bad (rape, insest, severe beatings, ect. I personally think this kind of thinking is bad in all situations, even in fantasy). But mostly fetishes are harmless, and yet they are treated again like some abnormality that must be cured.

I am sure every single person has a fetish, and it most likely is an everyday thing. Mine for instance is definitely spandex. I love it, and love to see women and fit men in it. Is it the only thing that stimulates me? Nope. Recall, I like to see women in it too

But I will find any female that is looking in a manner they are proud of themselves, or take good care of themselves, and are fun to be with, attractive.

Remember, there are people that have a fetish for denim. They don't get maligned in the same manner someone with a nylon fetish does.

Oh, and do you notice in general how women do not have fetishes? They are considered kinks? Perhaps another double standard.

[NicoleScott]

Well said, Pythos (#111, above). I, too, have observed that there seems to be an underlying notion here that crossdressing for pleasure, rather than identity, is not as acceptable, honorable, or legitimate. For example, there was a thread "What's your fetish?". Some peole just HAD to post that they didn't have any fetishes, that they dress because they feel all femmy inside. What was the point of responding? Except to elevate themselves above the sexual deviants with a fetish.

But I do not agree, Pythos, that everyone has a fetish. If they did, why not more understanding of those who do (or admit to it)?

I have a few fetishes, and there are certain things that excite me whether worn by me, a woman, or another cd. I may not be attracted to the woman, certainly not to the cd, but by the object. And it's all under control.

[Annaliese]

For one thing I don't think it is an addiction for me it is who I am.

[docrobbysherry]

I know I'm out of my area here since I'm not TG, but I've often wondered about this. Perhaps someone can answer it for me, since it fits into the topic.

What is the difference between someone who has a fetish for any number of things (latex, angora, pony play, leather, BDSM, feathers, feet or any other body part, rape ... the list is expansive), and someone who has a fetish for being dressed in women's clothes, either in specific items, or a fetish about becoming a voluptuous, sexy woman?

I'm not talking about a person who wishes to get in touch with a feminine side in any way. Just the fetish, sexual aspect of it, even if it is imagining the self to be a sexy woman who is pleasing a man, which can be a valid fetish of its own that has nothing to do with gender ID.

Would you consider such a person to fall into the realm of transgender? I've tended not to think so in the past, since a fetish is a fetish is a fetish, no matter what form it takes. I mean, a person who has a fetish about looking like a cat is not a cat. A person who has a fetish about steel and chains is not a knight in shining armor. Likewise, a person who has a fetish about latex is not a rubber ball. lol

At any rate, if such a person carries this too far (for example a person who cannot stop thinking about being bound during work hours to the point of being unable to concentrate on work, or a person who cannot have sex with his wife unless he is bound, even if she's not into it), is it accurate to say, if the fetish is wearing women's clothing, that the problem isn't the crossdressing for this person? Would you even describe what this person does as crossdressing, even if he is wearing the clothes for entirely different reasons than most people here who do wish to get in touch with a feminine side?

Where is the fine line?

I began dressing with fantasies of becoming female and feeling what a female feels. But, those fantasies disappeared long ago.
Now, I'm very satisfied to simply APPEAR to be an attractive female!
It's exciting, challenging, creative, and I'm NOT aware of having a "female side" at all!

As some have mentioned, it HAS become an addictive compulsion for me!
Altho I function in my everyday life and complete my family and work requirements, there R some serious side affects!

My house, cars, garages, and office r a mess!
I keep SHOPPING for new fem things! Even tho I already have so many, I can't count them!
My social life has shrunk to nearly nothing. As I spend my spare time on line, or with/as Sherry!

R there pluses? Yes! I drink less, have lost weight, watch less TV, and haven't had this much fun since COLLEGE!

[LilSissyStevie]

What is the difference between someone who has a fetish for any number of things (latex, angora, pony play, leather, BDSM, feathers, feet or any other body part, rape ... the list is expansive), and someone who has a fetish for being dressed in women's clothes, either in specific items, or a fetish about becoming a voluptuous, sexy woman?

The whole concept of fetish is, imo, bunk. God and Darwin got together some time ago and decided that any kind of sex that didn't potentially result in procreation was either immoral or unnatural. The idea of fetishes was an attempt to give religious objections to certain sexual practices "scientific" justification. But the justifications haven't worked too well and one "fetish" after another keeps falling of the list. Masturbation, homosexuality, oral sex, anal sex, and even certain aspects of BDSM were all once considered to be grave sexual perversions but are more or less mainstream today. This keeps people like Dr. Ray Blanchard up at night trying to think up new paraphillias (fetishes) to replace the ones that no one takes seriously anymore.

A man who compulsively masturbates all day long while wearing womens underwear is not that different from the one who washes their hands every five minutes. The problem is the compulsiveness, not the particular behavior. Yet one is considered fetishistic behavior and the other it not. The concept of fetish is nothing more than a disapproving moral judgment against someone else's sexual practices dressed up in psychobabble. Other than that, it's just a clothing style. By the way, practices like pedophilia, necrophilia, rape, bestiality are not fetishes either, they are crimes of aggression against victims who do not or cannot give their consent.

[Marissa]

No Sherry, you are not alone in this

Reine, I do see my dressing as about 80% fetish..the remaining 20% is full of those feelings/thoughts that I'm not sure whether its fetish or something else. And I ACCEPT myself for that Thank you again for taking this on another path and hoping to enlighten more on crossdressing being just a fetish to some of us..until we choose to change that.

For those that say 'its part of you and you will be back'..of course if someone comes back here, that is a given that the person once again returned to dressing or transitioning. But how about those who did not return?????? What about that person who did it for 4 yrs and then went on to live without another stitch of fem (or male, if FtM) attire?

Maybe that needs to be one of those magazine questions so there can be some type of measure for those who left it all behind.. unless someone has a percentage available? I would think that SOME have given it all up...and never returned. Each time I see it stated that you can't run from it, I want to throw it all away and the day I'm on my death bed, I'll log in here and say "yes, I did give it up..now bury me in that floral print sundress.."...lol..just to prove a point.

[Rianna Humble]

Each time I see it stated that you can't run from it, I want to throw it all away and the day I'm on my death bed, I'll log in here and say "yes, I did give it up..now bury me in that floral print sundress.."...lol..just to prove a point.

I think that those who repeat the mantra are only thinking of the Identity Dressers. Those who like SissieStephanie dress merely for the aesthetic appeal or those like you who are mainly fetish dressers probably could give it up if you had a strong enough reason to do so. OTOH, someone who dresses because they are TG (rather than someone who is TG because they dress) almost definitely cannot give up permanently no matter how often they purge.

[ReineD]

Something that seems to creep in is the notion a fetish is bad. Now, there are some I truly think are bad (rape, insest, severe beatings, ect. I personally think this kind of thinking is bad in all situations, even in fantasy). But mostly fetishes are harmless, and yet they are treated again like some abnormality that must be cured.

No, of course there's nothing wrong with fetish or any sex play.

It is "bad" when they take over and they prevent a person from fully engaging in other aspects of their lives. Please don't say that something doesn't exist just because you have no first hand experience with it.

There are tons of people seeking help for sexual and other addictions because they have to masturbate constantly, or they can't stay away from the computer, or they can no longer be fully present in the rest of their lives (wife, kids, friends, job, etc), because the fetish has reached a point of compulsion.

In other words, the people affected don't want to have to masturbate so frequently, they just feel compelled to. Or they want to engage in emotional sex with their wives but they just can't. This can have a negative impact on the marriage. Or they reach a point where they prefer to have sex by themselves and this takes away a desire to look for partners if they are single. Or they want to be able to enjoy a day with their kids without having to look at their watch constantly and wishing they were out of there so they could engage in their fetish. Or they prefer to stay at home alone rather than have friends over or go out.

They become more and more recluse because of their fetish. Their worlds become increasingly small and revolve around their compulsion.

THAT'S when a fetish is bad. Not the idea that someone enjoys varied sex play.

The whole concept of fetish is, imo, bunk.

I don't think you understand what I'm getting at. You can call in what you want: fetish, paraphilia, addiction, compulsion, whatever.

It is when a certain behavior takes over to the point of excess and it damages relationships, it negatively impact jobs, it causes someone's world to shrink considerably. The person affected can no longer enjoy doing anything else and sadly this person can stay in denial over this for a long time, refusing to acknowledge that the "condition" (use any word you want) even exists.

Some people become voluntary recluses to accommodate their condition, even if they don't masturbate all day (just a few hours every day). So my question is, if it involves wearing women's clothes, does this make the crossdressing OK?

[JulieK1980]

There is a confusion here that people aren't making a distinction with. The "ACT" of a fetish is not the issue. The issue is when that act interferes with a persons ability to function as a person. A "fetish" is just a term that encompasses a fixation on a particular item or clothing or other non-living object. It's not something that is a problem for most people that have them, (and almost every human being does have a fetish with something.) It is only a problem if it interferes with that persons life. It is extremely rare for a psychologist to recommend therapy or treatment for a fetish UNLESS the person with the fetish sees it as interfering with their everyday life. I.E. the person that feels they must compulsively masturbate 15 times a day. Or if the fetish happens to involve non-consensual acts that are prohibited by law such as exhibitionists that flash people.

More often than not a person with a fetish is able to control their fetish to allow them to function in the world. There is NOTHING wrong with that. This is also usually the goal of any "treatment." As it's usually the most attainable goal.

I personally don't crossdress for fetishistic reasons, but I have a feeling that if I did, I still wouldn't want it to go away, nor do I see anything wrong with the act of crossdressing for that reason. But, if I needed to do dress 24 hours a day, and it affected my family life and professional life, and I was NOT gender dysphoric, I would probably try to manage it and reduce the control the fetish had in my life.

Ultimately as I and others pointed out earlier, it's not the fetish that is a "problem," it is only a problem if it interferes with a persons ability to function at a level that satisfies them.

[ReineD]

Ultimately as I and others pointed out earlier, it's not the fetish that is a "problem," it is only a problem if it interferes with a persons ability to function at a level that satisfies them.

Thank you. This is why the bloggers in the first post want to stop the CDing.

So the next question is, if the CDing becomes this "obsession/problem" for lack of a better word and it does NOT involve gender dysphoria, then what is the difference between it and any number of other sexual and non-sexual obsessions/problems?

I don't think there is any difference, and I think it's a shame to say that if it is the CDing that is causing issues and it does not involve gender dysphoria, then the CDing is OK simply because it's OK to CDress. I mean, it's also OK to enjoy internet porn or play with bondage on the weekends, but not if it takes over your life. So how do most people deal with an activity once it has reached the level of compulsion/addiction/obsession/whatever? Abstinence ... or at least this works with other things, such as gambling, smoking, alcohol, or staying away from certain food triggers if it is overeating, or certain shopping situations if it is the shopping.

The key word is IF the CDing does NOT involve gender dysphoria.

[kendra_gurl]

[QUOTE=ReineD;2490732]Some people become voluntary recluses to accommodate their condition, even if they don't masturbate all day (just a few hours every day). So my question is, if it involves wearing women's clothes, does this make the crossdressing OK?[/QUOTE

A male wearing a bra and panties then doing anything he chooses to release sexual tension is his business. Only difference than doing it nude in the shower is the Stimulus he receives from the clothing. If he can't satisfy himself without that ( or any other specific stimulus) or "requires" his partner to participate as his only way of satisfaction then there is a problem.

Again I believe most of us started out this way at a very early age. Crossdressers that is not TG's, begin as a sexual fetish and over years of hiding and guilt over our fetish some of us told our wives and shared our desires with them. Did most of those wives accept us 100% by allowing us to wear lingerie while having sex with them every time? Of course not. they set limits. Where each of us are past that has been baby steps toward becoming a totally passable looking female.

All of this is fine between two consenting adults untill the line Reine asked about starts to become crossed. Where that line is in the relationship can easily be determined by either the husband or the wife as they set the limits with each other. That line most often changes over time as both become more comfortable with each other.

Reine is a very intelligent GG whom has no doubt over the years seen first hand how this line moves as has my own wife. What I can say from personal experience is that as my desires started to progress past the line we had set my wifes willingness to allow the line to move has made ME relize the line needed to reversed just a little. Had it not been for that acceptance and willingness on her part, allowing me to sample crossing that line, I might have just become more and more obsessed with my desires to the point of hiding from her what I really wanted.

We spent a weekend togeather en femme. It was great. I like so many otheres have fantisized about being en femme 24/7. Fantasy is great but living that fantasy it only took me 3 days to know I don't want to be en femme 24/7 365.
There comes a point when you have to not only accept yourself but also accept the reality of your limitations before truly feeling happy and content. Is dressing still a sexual thing for me? I'll put it this way. Rember that first girlfriend you had when you were young? How you enjoyed flirting and making out and feeling her up the first time and becomming excited without having sex with her? That is the same eurphoric feelings I can get when I transform into Kendra. Its no longer so much about the release as it is about the foreplay

How all this pertains to the OP blogger ,from what I am purely guessing, is that he never found his line untill it was too late. His fetish, addiction, obession what ever its called he was unable to control untill it lead to his ruin. Rather than retreating some he feels now his only option is to stop. If he can great if hes back to dressing in a month or 5 years its his life to do as he feels he needs.

[Marissa]

I think that those who repeat the mantra are only thinking of the Identity Dressers. Those who like SissieStephanie dress merely for the aesthetic appeal or those like you who are mainly fetish dressers probably could give it up if you had a strong enough reason to do so. OTOH, someone who dresses because they are TG (rather than someone who is TG because they dress) almost definitely cannot give up permanently no matter how often they purge.

Thank you Rianna even though its been touched on in here on what your thoughts are and I KNEW that..I know who I am.. okay 80% of who I am..lol.. but I wanted someone else to make these statements so those make an overall comment of "accept yourself" will understand that if its not Identity Dressers, then don't push that onto all.

[Sallee]

interesting site I need to pursue it more Not that I wan to stop but I often wonder why I dress It is expensive and a thrill but why? Fun?
I am guessing without reading much of it it is a pretty thoughtful site

[NicoleScott]

I personally don't crossdress for fetishistic reasons, but I have a feeling that if I did, I still wouldn't want it to go away, nor do I see anything wrong with the act of crossdressing for that reason. But, if I needed to do dress 24 hours a day, and it affected my family life and professional life, and I was NOT gender dysphoric, I would probably try to manage it and reduce the control the fetish had in my life.

If you don't dress for fetishistic reasons, how can you know how you would handle it? You don't.
Both Jody and Rianna (post #117) imply that if you dress because of gender identity reasons, you have no control over your crossdressing desires, but if you dress for fetish reasons, you can stop if you want to. Again, how can you know this? Is this your way of legitimizing your situation while writing off us fetish dressers as being beaten by ours? I don't experience gender dysphoria, so I don't comment on it other than to recognize that it exists in some. I certainly wouldn't tell you how I'd handle it.

[celeste26]

I didn't see any solutions that would stop the crossdressing just complaints about why it is not what that person wants for himself. He obviously spent so much time and energy in making that web site you'd think that maybe he could have actually done something instead of merely kvetching about it.

That web site offers nothing at all for me