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Thread: Sometimes one can find a diamond in the rough

  1. #1
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Sometimes one can find a diamond in the rough

    I was just surfing the net this morning. Honestly I was searching for a link of crossdressing and psychosis. (by the way, it was overwhelmingly noted as NOT a psychosis, though Society can make it one)..

    Well I find a page that was nice to read Here: http://www.transvestitelounge.com/ar...-crossdressing

    But then I found this comment. This is one of the best descriptions of what I am all about. I have a feeling this applies to many here.

    "In sociological terms, because of the status of males in our society, in comparison to that of women, when women wear "male" clothing, they are seen to be aspiring to a higher ideal. Conversely, when a man wears "female" clothing, he is seen to be demeaning himself. Thus women wearing male clothing is more socially acceptable. As long as this attitude persists in our society, women will never be truly equal to men. Thus women who truly desire equality with men should be encouraging a greater blurring of the gender boundaries in what we wear.

    Carl Jung proposed that we each have aspects of the opposite gender as a part of our unconcious selves. He ascribed to these the terms Amina & Animus, with the anima being the unconscious female aspects of the male personality (the "gentler" qualities - the ability to relate to others on an emotional level, creativity) and vice versa regarding the animus in females (the ability to use reason, think logically, assert physical strength and intellect).

    Jung stated that the anima and animus act as guides to the unconscious, unified Self, and that forming an awareness and a connection with the anima or animus is vital in achieving psychological growth. Yet males - especially so in western societies - are discouraged from expressing their softer, feminine side (anima), even - or perhaps especially so - by women. He also claimed that, if a person does not proceed toward self-knowledge, then neurotic symptoms may arise. He further claimed that when people ignore their anima or animus complexes, the anima or animus vies for attention by projecting itself on others. For example, when a male tries to subdue his anima, he does so by projecting the negative aspects of his male self. Homophobia is a prime example of a person desperately trying to control those aspects of his self that he considers to be "feminine".

    Thus, if a man has a desire to wear feminine attire and he denies himself this expression of his anima - or he allows himself to be dictated to by his significant other to deny it - then he is denying his anima and this failure to incorporate this into his personality will lead to a backlash from his unconscious. He may find himself heading down a slippery slope towards compulsion (forbidden fruits always taste sweeter), or possibly psychoses.

    It may well be that women who are attracted to "feminine" men are unconsciously recognising their unconscious wholeness in this expression of their anima. Ironically, it may also be that it is only those women who have recognised and assimilated their animus (maleness) and no longer find these men to be a threat to their own femininity who are comfortable in the company of these men.

    As you said, Lucy, it is predominantly heterosexual men who cross-dress and that the act of cross-dressing is merely a physical manifestation of an emotional expression. Sometimes we "instinctively" understand things, we didn't even realise we knew. This arises from what Jung called the collective unconscious - "inherited" knowledge.

    In addition, it is often during sexual encouters that we will most likely express our anima or animus. How many women have you known/heard of who are soft, supplicant females outside the bedroom, but become strong, strident and sexually dominant beings in the sack. Likewise, it is often only in the seclusion of the bedroom that a man will feel safe enough to be able to express tenderness he never normally shows to the outside world.

    By the way, the term Jung quoted for true integration of the anima or animus? Androgyny

    Keep up the good work. The world needs more self-realised women who have integrated their animus and so can appreciate the anima in their significant other - women like yourself.

    I so wish this sort of knowledge was more known and accepted.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
    Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.

  2. #2
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    While I find some possible useful info and substance here. I think Jung's discussion to be quite simplistic in some areas. "Attraction", and, " the unconscious", being two.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    ---------------------------------------------
    In addition, it is often during sexual encouters that we will most likely express our anima or animus. How many women have you known/heard of who are soft, supplicant females outside the bedroom, but become strong, strident and sexually dominant beings in the sack. Likewise, it is often only in the seclusion of the bedroom that a man will feel safe enough to be able to express tenderness he never normally shows to the outside world.----------------------------------------

    I so wish this sort of knowledge was more known and accepted.
    No, I haven't, Pythos, and I have some experience in this "study"! Lol!
    Two particularly passionate women come to mind. Both were quiet and timid by nature, both responded eagerly and hungrily in bed. But never "took over" as the aggressors! My ex is very dominant and demanding by nature. While not shy in telling me what she wanted, she never tried to dominate in bed!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

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    I agree. So interesting generalities about the role of gender in society, but Jung to me is little more than another armchair empiricist. His categorizations of male and female are fundementally stereotypes.

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    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Doc, those are not my words. Those are words quoted from a comment in the link that I put up. LOL.

    When it comes to the actual act, unless some items are used by women, they cannot really play the dominant role, I am well aware of this. Also the male has to be ok, or open to the idea of receiving shall we say.

    This response I think was written by a woman, but I cannot be sure at this point.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
    Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.

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    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    OK, Pythos. I couldn't tell where the quote stopped and your words began!

    However, I HAVE been with dominant women! They didn't NEED male equipment to take over in bed! And, they were pretty much like that out of bed, too!
    Personally, they crossed the line in my mind. Going from PASSIONATE to SCARY! NOT my cup of tea! I think it's something u have to experience, before u can decide whether you'll like that or not!?
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

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    Thanks for sharing the link

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    This was very enjoyable to read thank you

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    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    All very interesting Hon but in the long run it's who we are that really counts, not what we wear.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

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    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    I hate to burst your bubble, but psychodynamic "theory" is a pseudoscience. Psychology is supposed to be a science, but people like Jung and Freud didn't use any scientific methods or techniques to develop their ideas; we're expected to take it all as fact without subjecting it to peer review or attempts at refutation. Why psychologists like to worship those people, we'll never know.

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    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Abigail Evans View Post
    All very interesting Hon but in the long run it's who we are that really counts, not what we wear.
    True, but try convincing this to unaccepting wives of crossdressing husbands.

  11. #11
    Gold Member Samantha B L's Avatar
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    For years now,most mental health professionals have NOT considered LGBT matters such as crossdressing to be psychosis. I have had reasons to be under psychiatric treatment other than LGBT and crossdressing. I've mentioned my dressing to several of my doctors and counselars over the years and then I became worried they would hit me over the head with a lot of Freudian stuff about "repressed" fantasies and impulses. Boy was I wrong. They just told me "it's okay Sam,and besides,it's got nothing to do with medication maintenance" There was a time in this country,and in other countries too,that families would sometimes have a gay,lesbian or CD family member comitted to a mental hospital. This didn't happen across the board but it was especially common if a wealthy family could prove Uncle Herschel was legally bats because he liked to wear wigs and makeup or Aunt Rachel liked to run around in football uniforms. Throw in paying some shiftless oldtime psychiatrist $10,000 to lobotomize them and it sure as hell got them out of the way if they stood to inherit!



    Practices such as these have died out in the past 50 years or therabouts. There are still some therapists and doctors who have a slight conservative bent and beleive that being CD or gay is "arrested developement" or "maludjustment" although they don't go so far as to think such patients should be put away. Sadly,these characters sometimes get ahold of younger patients in their teens and twenties and they use rather crude and brusque tactics to try to bend them out of dressing or being transexual or gay. You all may as well know I don't like talking much about my experiences with psychiatry. People wonder why is this person bringing that up? Fortunately,many people are cool about it. Yet there is a huge stigma about this and you have to be careful who you tell you've been hospitalized or that you're on medication!


    SAMANTHA B L

  12. #12
    GG WifeofWrenchette's Avatar
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    Interesting article Pythos. Thanks for bringing this up.
    Define "normal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    He ascribed to these the terms Amina & Animus, with the anima being the unconscious female aspects of the male personality (the "gentler" qualities - the ability to relate to others on an emotional level, creativity) and vice versa regarding the animus in females (the ability to use reason, think logically, assert physical strength and intellect).
    I can't help wondering if it's more an all-or-nothing proposition, rather than possessing one or the other.

    Men I know and judge to be in strongest possession of the "animus" qualities of reason, logic, and strength also have more apparent "anima" qualities of creativity and kindness. Same goes for women, just in the reverse. It could also be said that one is useless without the other, or at the least, misdirected. Take, for instance, raw strength without compassion. This creates bullies and tyrants. Or compassion without logic. This creates bleeding-heart idiots. Creativity without skill (reason) creates "modern art." Skill without creativity or emotion creates "modern architecture."

    People without one or the other just seem soulless to me. Perhaps they are.

    Jung, of course, was not the first to describe the dualistic nature of man. The Oriental yin/yang concept is essentially the same. Without yin AND yang, you are neither. Knowing that there's "nothing new under the sun," I'd wager that they weren't the first to discover the concept, either.

    However, this all has little relation to trans-anything. Transvestism, transsexualism, transgenderism, are only one outward reflection; and none need be engaged in to balance anima with animus.

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