There might be another CD in my office...

[Kathryn Philips]

I work in large office with 800 employees of which I would say about 60% are male (ie 480 males). I don't know what the average number of CDs per 1000 of the male population in the western world is estimated to be. Let say that it was sufficiently high to ensure that statistically it was certain that at least one other person other than me was a CD in the office. How would I go about identifying this person, assuming that this person went to the office in males clothes only, and that I could not out myself to the rest of the company in the process. What should I look for (
eg face, trimmed eyebrows, hairless hands/wrists, etc.)?

If you were the CD trying to be identified and I figured you out and I said something like "I know about you and wearing female clothes, I'm like you". How would you react?

This is a hypothetical question and I have no intention of doing such a thing
unless anyone reading this happens to work in the "white building" (who would know what I mean) and is a CD...

[Kate Simmons]

I see no problem with it as long as it does not affect anyone's performance at work. "Cdar" usually does most of the work for IDing.

[Barbra P]

Hi Kathryn

I don’t have an answer for you, but I suspect that there is a least one other cross-dresser where you work, but I have nothing to back that up. I worked for one of the country’s biggest savings and loan organizations and the company encouraged costumes on Halloween. I always went en femme but nobody came forward and identified themselves as a fellow cross-dresser. I did have one mid-manager come talk to me while I was outside on a smoke break and ask how it felt to see lipstick on my cigarette and did I get a rush out of seeing lipstick on my coffee cup and cigarette; he seemed particularly interested and I had the distinct feeling that he really wanted to experience the feeling himself.

I can say that Carolyn, my boss, knew right away that my attire was much more than just a Halloween costume and frequently referred to my alter-ego. She let me know that she had absolutely no problems with my alter-ego.

Now I’d have no problem with someone approaching me with your “I know about you . . .” question. Depending on how I felt about them, as a male, would dictate my next action, which could be “Oh that’s nice” or “Gee, let’s get together sometime.” When I was younger I was pretty much strictly in the closet, only coming out during October – I liked getting an early start on getting my costume together and I would dress every day possible during October.

Good luck in your search, but I think a lot depends on whether or not the hypothetical person wants to be spotted.

[2SpeedTranny]

I think I'd mind my own business.

[BreenaDion]

Transgendered people dont like to be OUTED so do the polite thing an let it go. Best to do it very suttle and DONT embarras some one. Just sounds so demeaning, some of us want to live in Stealth ya know. Unless you are OUT AN PROUD then cross dress at work.
Breena.

[Kathryn Philips]

I must emphasize! This is a hypothetical question. I am not searching for anyone.

But, if someone figured me out, I would admit to being a CD, even if they where not one themselves. I think that someone would have to no ordinary person. Either a CD, a partner of a CD or soemeone who knows one very well. The only physical cue are my eyebrows, which are kept short in length (trimmed by hairddresser every time I get a haircut) and sightly thinned out into a bit of an arch. But I wear glasses, which hides them a bit...

[daviolin]

Kathryn, I used to always think about that too. I used to work in a factory about 800 employees. I have since retired from there. But the funny thing is that later I started meeting up with other CD's at local clubs. Come to find out one of the girls I met works at the same place I retired from. I would have never guessed in a million years. We are now good friends. Daviolin

[Taylor186]

I would deny it, without question. How would I know if you were a political friend or enemy, even if you said you were a crossdreser too?

[Kathryn Philips]

I would deny it, without question. How would I know if you were a political friend or enemy, even if you said you were a crossdreser too?

Am I naive enough to think that another CD, outed/closeted or not, would always keep my CDing confidential?

[Kathryn Philips]

Transgendered people dont like to be OUTED so do the polite thing an let it go. ...some of us want to live in Stealth ya know...

I repeat, it's just a hypothetical question! I would never ask a colleague anything about their private life that would emabarras them.

[AnnaCalliope]

If you were the CD trying to be identified and I figured you out and I said something like "I know about you and wearing female clothes, I'm like you". How would you react?

This is the hypothetical question, in question, here, Ladies. I think what Kathryn is trying to get across is if you publicly crossdressed at work, as I do all the time -- flared bottom jeans or slacks, painted toe and fingernails, women's loafers or sandals etc. -- how would you react if someone, especially another CD who may not be so free-spirited, called you out on it? Would you openly admit that you are a CD/TG? Would you deny, deny, deny, and try to explain it away?

Myself, personally, I am an open book. If...there's no if, actually. This past Thursday, one of the newer employees at the call center I work at, "Joy", asked if I knew I was wearing women's khaki pants and that my sneakers were girls' as well, since we'd talked previously that I shop almost exclusively at thrift stores, and sometimes its hard to tell. I grinned and told her, yes, I was aware and that actually almost every piece of my wardrobe was women's clothing. She told me she had a friend in high school who was Trans, and she had no problem with it.

The next day, we got off work early and went across the street to Ted's to get lunch, because she had a lot of questions and was geniously intrigued by me. Given we have casual Fridays, my outfit was much more...obvious. Flared bottom jeans, pink flip-flops, a purple top and visible bra padding. I had even redone my nails the night before, in navy blue. I explained everything, about myself, about transgenderism in general, surgeries, effects of hormones, the works. She was very open-minded and accepting, and even though she had to leave earlier than expected, she promised we'd hang out again, possibly with me en femme.

She did pop the dreaded "Are you gay?" question, which in my case is technically true. I say technically, because even though I consider myself female with a few anatomical shortcomings, I am biologically male and very attracted to men.

Granted, I've yet to be approached by another CD at work, but I would not be surprised if it happened, while I'm not technically not "out" at work (i.e. I haven't gone around and told every possible soul I'm getting a sex change).

["Mary"]

I'd like to think that there are other CD out there that I know and see. But I'm not too confident in what those stats really mean. I wonder if the % men who CD might include guys who have worn one item of womens clothes just once. Not exactly my level of interest/activity.

[Leslie Langford]

Kattie, although statistics on this subject are hard to come by and often unreliable since so many of us are still underground, most experts peg the gay and lesbian community at around 10% of the general population, and crossdressers at around 1%. That means that gays and lesbians outnumber us by a factor of 10 to 1, and since "coming out" has become so commonplace for them these days compared to us, we are among the few minority groups left who still fly under the radar, and our absolute numbers are also correspondingly small - and particularly those of us who are "out and about" in public.

So, to answer your question more precisely and given these assumptions, odds are that there are at least 8 crossdressers among your aggregate of approximately 800 fellow employees, and they are obviously well closeted.

As for the tell-tale signs, well, that should be an easy question to answer. Think of what it is about your masculine appearance that you are trying to change or minimize to become more "passable", and that should be a starting point as to what to look for in others, if you suspect that one of them belongs to our community.

An always smoothly shaven face, a hairless body, arched eyebrows, longish hair done in a feminine or androgynous style, impeccably maintained (and often longish) fingernails) traces of nail polish (varnish) left behind in the cuticles of fingers despite determined efforts to eradicate all remaining evidence, no unruly nose or ear hairs, outlines of bras or bra straps under otherwise male clothing, wearing unisex clothing that borders on the "femmy", the way we cross our legs or fold our arms, having both ears pierced, driving what is often referred to as a "chick-mobile", instinctively heading off the the women's washroom before we catch ourselves, always putting lotion on our hands or balm on our lips, using a women's deodorant with a distinctly "femmy" fragrance - the list goes on and on...

Crossdressers and GG's generally have a 6th sense about these types of things as they are a part of our respective worlds. As for the average knuckle-dragging macho male, they are generally clueless in this regard, so they pose no threat to us in keeping our little secrets to ourselves, if we so desire.

Would I want to approach another suspected CDer and identify myself as one as an expression of solidarity? - No, and for two very good reasons. Firstly, I would respect their privacy and not want to shatter their illusion that they are passing when they are not. Secondly, the suspected CDer may well be a very mannish looking GG, and who would want to deal with the awkwardness of being wrong with one's assumptions, even when all the usual markers point in that direction?

I will, however, admit to one time when I was sorely tempted to speak up when I spotted a fellow CDer combing through the racks of dresses and skirts in a clearance outlet store not more than 5' away from me. She was impeccably dressed and was successfully blending in otherwise except for one "minor" detail - whenever the sleeves on her top rode up ever so slightly, they revealed hairy arms that would have done a chimpanzee proud. I was left shaking my head in bewilderment, wondering over and over again - "What was she thinking???"

I so wanted to point that out to her, but in the end, thought the better of it...that would only have been a no-win situation for both of us...

[Being Paige]

A few years back I was at a local g/l fiendly bar and noticed a coworker there, I was dressed totally enfemme and I'm sure he checked me out! He never looked at me any differently at work and to this day I don't know if he actually knew that it was me he was looking at! I have always wondered what would have happened if he had apporached me that night.

[NatalieBliss]

Couldn't the subject be broached in a polite and discrete matter? It's kind of sad to see so many people assume this sort of "first contact" would just have to be an emotionally scaring professional suicide pact.

[Amy Lynn3]

If I saw another cder out and about I would not attempt to talk to her. On the other hand...if I were shopping in the womens cloths someplace and a male ask me was I a fellow cder, I would say...heck yes, what's up dude? For me and me only it is the same thing as talking to other cders on here and meeting them out someplace for dinner.

[Tracii G]

I would not ask its just too personal.

[Jorja]

I work in large office with 800 employees of which I would say about 60% are male (ie 480 males). I don't know what the average number of CDs per 1000 of the male population in the western world is estimated to be. Let say that it was sufficiently high to ensure that statistically it was certain that at least one other person other than me was a CD in the office. How would I go about identifying this person, assuming that this person went to the office in males clothes only, and that I could not out myself to the rest of the company in the process. What should I look for (
eg face, trimmed eyebrows, hairless hands/wrists, etc.)?

If you were the CD trying to be identified and I figured you out and I said something like "I know about you and wearing female clothes, I'm like you". How would you react?

This is a hypothetical question and I have no intention of doing such a thing
unless anyone reading this happens to work in the "white building" (who would know what I mean) and is a CD...

So hypothetically you want to spot the CD in the crowd. Here is what you do. In the morning just before you go to work and you are dressed in drab, look into the mirror. Note what you see. When you arrive at work look for someone with the same things you noted earlier. Chances are they are the person you seek. If you are wrong prepare for an A$$ kicking.

[Lynn Marie]

[SIZE="4"]So far I've found that CD's come in an incredible variety of flavors. Some are fearless and boldy strut there stuff while others are terribly reticent and will barely even speak to you.

So I'm sure that if you were to identify another CD at your workplace she could be overjoyed or terribly embarrassed or something in between those extremes. After a lifetime of believing that everyone was pretty much the same as me, I'm finally learning that no one is exactly like me and most aren't even close! LOL[/SIZE]

[Vickie_CDTV]

The hairless arms and hands may be indicative of a dresser (lots of pinprick scabs on the arms, hands etc. may be indicative of someone having electrolysis.) Could also look for bra straps, suspender/garter bumps etc. on their pants.

Still, as others said, assuming can be dangerous and there may be other reasons they have smooth hands or whatnot, and they may not take kindly to being asked (much like a man being asked if he is gay.)

[eluuzion]

In the workplace, any personal issue which might have potential to affect my credibility at work or my employment is handled in the same manner.

"Admit Nothing, Deny Everything".

[Stephenie S]

Put yourself in their shoes.

The workplace is NOT the place for this sort of intimacy. How would YOU feel if someone came up to you at work and said, "Hi, I'm Frank and I'm a crossdressers too."

This is a no no at work. In a bar? Maybe. But in general, as has been said before, crossdressers DON'T like to be "outed" in public. I think you should keep your opinions to yourself.

And Vickie? Electrolysis does not produce "lots of pinprick scabs". Myth, dear.

Stephie

[Rianna Humble]

I work in large office with 800 employees of which I would say about 60% are male (ie 480 males). I don't know what the average number of CDs per 1000 of the male population in the western world is estimated to be. Let say that it was sufficiently high to ensure that statistically it was certain that at least one other person other than me was a CD in the office. How would I go about identifying this person, assuming that this person went to the office in males clothes only, and that I could not out myself to the rest of the company in the process.

This is the hypothetical question, in question, here, Ladies. I think what Kathryn is trying to get across is if you publicly crossdressed at work, as I do all the time -- flared bottom jeans or slacks, painted toe and fingernails, women's loafers or sandals etc. -- how would you react if someone, especially another CD who may not be so free-spirited, called you out on it?

AnneMarie, I think it's great that your employer is broad-minded enough to allow you to cross-dress all the time, but I think you misread Kathryn's question which was about identifying a cross-dresser who only ever wears male garb at work and outing yourself to him without the rest of the office knowing about it.

I'm afraid that I would join the chorus of those who say don't even go near the subject at work. If the co-worker always wears male garb to work he obviously doesn't want to declare himself to anyone in the office.

At best, I would suggest that if you do spot some tell-tale signs that are not capable of any other interpretation, then start by befriending the guy as one male to another. Once you knwo him well enough to go out for a drink together after work, then you could bring up the subject of what you do in your personal time at home and casually mention that you cross-dress but don't want the rest of the office to know. At this stage if you have not misjudged the guy, he may well confide, if he doesn't then get prepared to practice some self-defence.

[Nigella]

What is it with those of you who have this wish to "out" others. No matter where you are, be it at work, in the pub, shop or any other place, if you see someone who you think is part of our community, why feel the need to publicly humiliate them. Lets also live in the real world, any closet TG is not going to advertise the fact, despite all the tell tale signs we feel we may see.

Lets have a show of hands for those of you who are in this frame of mind, show me by raising your left hand if you would be happy to have someone come up to you and say "Hi, do you cross dress as well".

Those of you who are in the closet, raise your right hand if you would openly admit that you cross dress.

Lets get real folks, in the real world it is very very very rare that this would happen.

[RebeccaJ]

I have no tell tale signs that anyone would know. It actually makes me nervous in another post where someone indicated GG's could tell that you have "panty" lines, although not sure how.

I can say however, if anyone ever said something I would definately deny, would be incredibly embarrassed and would probably be mad.

With that said, as with the Op, I am also curious sometimes about how many others in the office might be under dressed. Would never approach anyone but definately curious.