Men Crossdressing vs. Women Crossdressing

[darla_g]

Just an open question: My GG and I were talking and she was wondering why there seems to be so many more men crossdressing vs. women crossdressing.

What are your thoughts on this topic?

and by women crossdressing I am talking about a woman taking on the persona of a man rather than just wearing an article of men's clothing like jeans or a shirt.

[tiffanyjo89]

I think the reason there appears to be more male crossdressers than female crossdressers is because there are a lot more "masculine" women's clothing and accessories than "feminine" male clothing and accessories.

If a girl wants to wear a t-shirt and loose fitting jeans, she's seen as a tomboy and many times the clothes she's wearing were purchased not from the mens/boys department but rather the womens/girls dept. They are just manufactured to look like a boys jean cut or tee. Heck, Levi's has a jean style called "boyfriend" jeans that are women's jeans made to look like they were made for and worn by a guy. I'd say they are a lot more popular than the girlfriend jeans.

[kathie225]

Twenty years ago I had a work associate (female) that dressed completely like a man and would ask me about men's attire. She was in a "same sex" relationship and was very much the "male" partner. Among women in same sex relationships, male attire and corresponding persona are more common. Not too long ago a telephone repair person was at my home. She acted much the same as my work associate did and for the same reason. Most heterosexual couples wouldn't have occasion to encounter many crossdressing GGs because we move in different social circles. Many male crossdressers are hetero and do interact with "mainstream" society increasing the chance of detection and interaction. In my almost 70 years I can remember two crossdressing GGs in both attire and persona.

[Debglam]

That is a great question. I really believe in the hormone & receptor/blocker theories regarding transgenderism. Maybe these imbalances tend to create more female brain/male body individuals than the opposite???

[Eryn]

I think that it boils down to this:

Women can wear masculine styles and be socially accepted while keeping their own persona.

The only hope that a man has of being socially accepted while wearing feminine clothing is by being perceived as a woman.

Of course, there are exceptions to any blanket statement, but they are just that, exceptions.

[Wendy_Marie]

I disagree with your statement that there are more MTF than FTM crossdressers...there are far more Genetic females who go around daily dressed in attire more suited to the male gender than there ever were Males in Female clothing.

It has only been since the 1960's that it has become widely accepted for females to be seen in public wearing pants....Due to a huge Double Standard however now it is deemed not only acceptable but normal and even stylish and as such is no longer taboo for females to be "Tomboyish" in nature and dress...just not so when it comes to the opposite end of the spectrum.

[darla_g]

Ok she finds this interesting, but notes that many men CDs frequently prosthetic breasts etc. and may tuck and so forth. But when women crossdress do they wear a fake phallus or is all about the clothing and shoes?

[Eryn]

I disagree with your statement that there are more MTF than FTM crossdressers...there are far more Genetic females who go around daily dressed in attire more suited to the male gender than there ever were Males in Female clothing.

It's probably too late, but before you're nailed to the cross by some of our members for your statement I'll point out that virtually all of the masculine attire worn by women was redesigned to fit them and sold in the women's department. They also don't have the desire to pass as men since it is socially acceptable for women to wear masculine styles.

[ReineD]

Whatever I think is nothing more than an opinion, since I haven't spent a lot of time researching it.

But, there are people who have considered the issue. Matt Kailey, a transman, is an award-winning author, blogger, and community leader, as well as a nationally recognized speaker and trainer on transgender issues.

About Matt: http://tranifesto.com/about-matt-kailey/

Here are Matt's thoughts on why it is perceived there are more transwomen than transmen:

Part 1: http://www.examiner.com/transgender-...s-men-part-one

Part 2: http://www.examiner.com/transgender-...s-men-part-two

There's a lot more to it than a genetic female's ability to wear pants more easily than a genetic male can wear skirts.

As to why there are fewer genetic females who crossdress than genetic males, I believe it is because females are generally not as sexually driven as males. Somehow I just can't picture a woman becoming sexually excited over wearing male briefs. (Generally speaking).

[nvlady]

Crossdressing for me is all about the forbidden fruit (boys don't wear skirts, boys don't wear makeup).
If a GG wears jeans or a mans shirt, nobody thinks anything of it, so there is no forbidden fruit aspect.
If society completely accepted me wearing dresses and makeup it would take the fun out of it and I wouldn't want to do it anymore.

[darla_g]

Thank you Reine that goes to the essence of what she was asking.

[Intertwined]

I think the reason there appears to be more male crossdressers than female crossdressers is because there are a lot more "masculine" women's clothing and accessories than "feminine" male clothing and accessories.

If a girl wants to wear a t-shirt and loose fitting jeans, she's seen as a tomboy and many times the clothes she's wearing were purchased not from the mens/boys department but rather the womens/girls dept. They are just manufactured to look like a boys jean cut or tee. Heck, Levi's has a jean style called "boyfriend" jeans that are women's jeans made to look like they were made for and worn by a guy. I'd say they are a lot more popular than the girlfriend jeans.

I BIG TIME Agree with this idea, IF, there were more feminine Male clothing out there, I would not need womens clothing at all. Pinks / pastels, lace, ruffles, " Cut " for a mans shape, " NOT " trying to immitate the female form, I would be SO THERE...!

I think that it boils down to this:

Women can wear masculine styles and be socially accepted while keeping their own persona.

The only hope that a man has of being socially accepted while wearing feminine clothing is by being perceived as a woman.

Of course, there are exceptions to any blanket statement, but they are just that, exceptions.

Sorry, I have to dissagree here, I am one of the exceptions, as I said earlier, I dress 50/50, sure, I get some strange looks, even some disgusted looks sometimes, but, usually I get questions or compliments on what I am wearing.

I was nominated for Employee of the year this year, tonight was the ceremony, I went in a Man's shirt and Tie, knee length pencil skirt, tights and high heels, and at the reception afterwards, I had more people visiting with me, than the people that won Employee of the year.

[Eryn]

Sorry, I have to dissagree here, I am one of the exceptions...

Since you acknowledge that you are one of the exceptions, you seem to be agreeing!

(sorry, just having some semantic fun...)

[VioletJourney]

I think it all comes down to the fact that for centuries women were seen as "less" than men. So a woman presenting as a man can be socially perceived as empowerment, while men presenting as women seems wrong because it seems like a desire to be a "lesser" being. Of course, with feminism and everything that's not true anymore, but it takes a while for society to readjust.

[Sue101]

The reason why women crossdressers are so rare is not just because tomboy behavior and angrogynous looks are now mainstream allowing women from an early age to naturally express their masculine side, it is also because the psychological conditions that create crossdressing behavior rarely exist for girls.

Girls grow up without having to alter their personalities to suit their gender unlike boys who have to do 180 degree turnaround to convert themselves from sweet sensitive boys into agressive competitive men. Boys are forced to reject anything feminine. These differing conditions mean girls never need to develop a coping mechanism to deal with gender issues.

[2SpeedTranny]

Women can wear masculine styles and be socially accepted while keeping their own persona.

The only hope that a man has of being socially accepted while wearing feminine clothing is by being perceived as a woman.

I'll beg to disagree.

I dress like a girl. Lots. Yet none of my friends or acquaintances think of me as anything other than a guy in drag.

[darla_g]

It would be interesting to get a transmen opinion in here.

[Loni]

as for women "trying to be a guy" i do not go into the areas of were a woman wants/needs to be a guy. aka the gay districts. but i have seen a number of them out and about in main stream. and society does not care. no smug looks no talking behind there backs. that kind of thing. but if a guy try's to be a girl for a time he gets the "cold shoulder" deal.
the "norms" in our society are were a woman/girl can dress as a guy and no problem, but a guy can not even dress less then full on guy mode.
some time back i was in a 4X4 club and a lesbian couple joined up with no problem, but if i showed up dressed less then all male (as in tight shorts, skirt, fluffy top etc.) i would have been insulted and kicked out.
so as a society we do not mind a woman try's looking/trying to be a man she just blends in and nothing happens. but if a man even thinks to be a girl ..ouch.

.

[Pythos]

I'm going to add my 02. cents.

I truly think that if men were able to do as Rye of the dead, and myself aspire to do, which is openly wear skirts AS MEN, no tucking, no breastforms, but with makeup and certain hair styles, then I know I would most likely not have tried breast forms and tucking. The only reason why I try to fully pass (mind you, I could wear the outfit, hair and makeup of my last pic set, and not tuck, or wear breast forms, just lower the belt to both reduce the waist cinching, and obscuring certain features. I would love to wear that style, and present andrrogynous. But and this is the important thing, the general public has a HUGE problem with men looking or dressing even slightly femininely. I cannot wear one of my skirts to work, whereas a women can choose between skirts, shorts, jeans, slacks, dress and so on. Women can freely choose their hair color, hair style, hair length, whereas a guy is very limited in hair length and color.

If I were to change my hair color from this off red I naturally have, to black, I kid you not, my sanity would be questioned in my preferred field of work. The same would not be true of a woman. Hair length in my field is expected to be short crop, if not military styled, when it comes to men. It is ludicrous.

I have been breaking barriers at my computer job though, I have posted the styles I wear there, and many here have said they look good, even the skirted one, but let me be clear, there are people that look at me as if I am some kind of creature in a zoo. Not many mind you.

I have faced barrages here for saying this, but I do think the ratio of crossdressing males and crossdressing females would be far wider if men wearing skirts, along with the other fashion and style latitude women have were the norm.

Unfortunately they are not.

Oh: I also find that more often than not it is a woman that is supporting these double standards. Or at least it seems that way to me.

[Lorileah]

I think you might be surprised just how many women are crossdressing right before your eyes. They, unlike us, have the ability to go undetected and they don't have the fears males have about perception.

For all the exclamations here that it is non-sexual, most MtF crossdressers have a sexual component at least early on. It is a male thing where sexual feelings are very strong early on in life. I do believe that most here outgrow the sexual "need" as they age and we become as we say just men who prefer the clothes.

I personally know three women who are crossdressers in the way men on these boards are. They wear men's underwear daily as underwear and not fashion. Two wear tighty whities as their sole undergarment. Both are small enough breasted to not always have to wear a bra. They often act as we expect men to act with sexual innuendos and rough speech. They have been known to sexually aggressive (maybe I notice this because they have done this toward me). The third wears boxers exclusively as her lower undergarment. They, like us, claim comfort.

I also think that FtM crossdressers have a different mindset on facial looks. They can and do just go without make up (or minimal). They can wear their hair shorter or even shave the head. They can purchase and wear men's clothing in smaller sizes and go un-noticed (no one looks to see if the buttons go one way or the other).

In the MtF side so many have the idea that the clothing and the make-up are inherent to the role. So many here say they want to blend. On the FtM crossdresser side blending is virtually a non-issue unless they desire facial hair or they are well endowed but even then the use of minimizer bras can help. No one looks to see if the legs are smooth or not. And women who don't shave their legs are not questioned but often thought of as hippy or bohemian.

Why don't you see as many FtM "crossdresser" (and I am excluding transsexuals here because they are truly men in the wrong shell) it is because they don't make as big a ruckus as the MtF crossdresser does. They don't worry what the neighbors think. They don't go out looking for sexual encounters. They don't flaunt it or make a fuss about how they are abused by society. They are there, maybe not as many as the MtF side but they are there and YOU just don't see it because they don't look like scared rabbits, or they don't dress as "Little Lord Fauntleroy", or they don't broadcast to the world what kind of underwear they are wearing. They just go about their business as usual. 50 years ago they go the same taunting we get now. They were considered odd or sexual deviants when they wore male clothing but they handled it differently than the men here do. They didn't shrink off to the closet. They embraced the look, called it fashion and their sisters supported them. They claimed comfort and stuck by that instead of caving when they were questioned on it. They claimed equality and held it (as much as it is right now). They didn't care what their friends neighbors or spouses said. They stuck by it, Some may have lost family and spouses over it. I am sure that there were men back then who asked (or assumed) are you gay? Do you want to be a man? Will I lose the power I have in this marriage? But it seems to have worked out. It just shows how women have more stick-to-it-iveness. Men have never had to fight for equality. Yes they fight over other things but equality is different.

[notquitegirl]

I think that it boils down to this:

Women can wear masculine styles and be socially accepted while keeping their own persona.

The only hope that a man has of being socially accepted while wearing feminine clothing is by being perceived as a woman.

Of course, there are exceptions to any blanket statement, but they are just that, exceptions.

I don't think this is true as a blanket statement. I think the perception that it's true makes it true for many people, but my experience tells me that I have little problem wearing skirts and dresses as a man.

[Sue101]

I don't think this is true as a blanket statement. I think the perception that it's true makes it true for many people, but my experience tells me that I have little problem wearing skirts and dresses as a man.

I think you are confusing two situations. Society tolerates individual expression which means you can safely walk around in public and talk to strangers. Social acceptance means nobody bats an eyelid over your presentation including family, friends and your employer. That is clearly not true as witnessed by the fact that men in skirts is a very rare sight.

Men in skirts are not socially accepted but society will tolerate public displays.

[ReineD]

For those of you who do not have the time to read the excellent piece written by transman Matt Kailey (see post #9 above), I've taken the liberty to extract the highlights:

Some reasons transmen are statistically underrepresented are:

1. Indeed, because it is true that it is easier for natal women to adopt male clothing and male gender roles, transmen may be able to live as men or with a masculine gender expression without medical or psychological intervention, more easily than trans women. Thus, they aren't counted in the statistics.

2. Natal women still earn less in our economy than natal men so they may also lack the financial resources for medical or psychological intervention.

3. FtM genital surgery is more expensive and expansive than MtF genital surgery, so fewer FtMs seek it.

Some reasons transmen are less visible are:

4. Testosterone is a more powerful hormone than estrogen, thus even after HRT it is easier to distinguish MtFs than FtMs.

5. Even in our generation, many trans men were socialized as females to not speak out, not demand, not make trouble, which can translate to a lack of voice and visibility in society.

6. Possibly because of the reason above, there have not been as many transmen role models as there have been for transwomen.


So ... (this is me writing again), there is much more to it than the fact that it is easier or more acceptable for women to be masculine than it is for men to be feminine.

[Alice Torn]

Just look at the most recent Oscar show. Ann Hathaway is dressed in a tux, when the male co-host waddles out in a dress, and is laughed at. Very telling.

[SIZE=3]Society has changes quite a bit, since i was a kid. No way would Ellen be allowed to have a show, then! If a MtF was to try to have a national variety show, on the big networks, I don't think society would be ready for that. But, Ellen is almost worshipped![/SIZE]

[kendra_gurl]

It all starts at a very early age. Both male and females who wish to express there shared gender. I'm 60 so when I was in grade school girls never ever wore jeans. It was just not accepted. What makes it easier now for females is their acceptance by sociaty from that Quote "Tomboy" lable. Some girls want to be a cheerleader while others want to be in sports. Softball Soccer Basketball all require a degree of abandoning the typical feminine behaviour for a more rugged agressive one. How many female coaches of female athletics appear to be "feminine" in their everyday dress and behaivour. Hetrosexual or gay or lesbian so many times has nothing to do with a female just not needing to express her feminity all the time. Same as they don't always need to express their masculinity all the time either. Sociaty and especially men will even accept most women presenting as a male as just one of the guys after they get to know them. Might be different for some obvious butch lesbians but most men don't have a problem with a female who is not feminine in look and actions. I just attended one of my grandaughters highschool graduation. and I have to say that even from a distance and covered with a cap and gown it was still very easy to know if it was a male or female walking onto the stage.

As far as it being a sexually exciting thing to pose as a man to them I don't have a clue but I would guess not. Nothing sexy about boxers or briefs for me but then most women don't see it all that sexy to wear matching bra and panties everyday either. Penis envy? I know it exist but by what percentage I have no clue.
Lets all face the fact that its a lot easier to jump out of bed throw on a pair of jeans and a shirt, run a comb thru our hair if we still have any and head out the door than it is to look our feminine best so why should women not want to be able to do the same thing.

Females truly have the best of both worlds right in their closets with the ability to change at will how they present without all the guilt and emotions crossdressing males must endure