Lying

[Sophie86]

A lot is being said about lying in some of the other threads, and the popular consensus is that CDs should tell the entire truth about their crossdressing to their SO's before they get married. Is that how it normally works with issues other than CDing? It seems to me that people keep a lot more things hidden from prospective spouses. For example, here are a few things that women typically don't tell men...

"I'm not really interested in this whole sex thing, but I understand it's what I have to do in order to attract a mate. Just realize that after we get married the frequency is going to drop to about a third of what you consider minimally necessary for your survival."

"I've had some really bad experiences with men, and you're a man, so that makes you responsible for them."

"I don't really agree with your stupid political and philosophical beliefs, but I know that men aren't attracted to argumentative women, so I'll just save the details for after we're married."

"I sometimes poop, and it smells really bad." (Seriously, I've heard of women who won't poop within a mile of their boyfriend.)

"During my period, I can be as bitchy as I like, and you're supposed to just say 'yes ma'am,' and bring me chocolate."

"I have no sense of humor and generally hate life until sometime after lunch."

"I'm maintaining this svelte figure by living on caffeine, air, and a high degree of anxiety. Later, when I feel truly loved, I will relax and start to eat until I'm roughly twice my current size. Then, I'll demand constant affirmation that you love my new figure as much as you ever loved that earlier one."

And then there are the things that even non-CD men don't tell women...

"I realize that, logistically speaking, it's not possible for us to have sex every waking moment while we're dating. When we're living in the same house together, though, I expect the frequency to dramatically improve."

"I masturbate. A lot. Even if we do start having sex more often, I'll probably still find it convenient to masturbate on occasion. I just like it that much."

"I have done some crazy shit to get off. If you ask me for details, I'm going to lie."

"I'm a very tolerant, laid back person, except when people disagree with my political and philosophical beliefs."

"I've had some really bad experiences with women, and you're a woman, so that makes you responsible."

"I'm at my wittiest and most cheerful first thing in the morning."

"Yes, your ass is kind of large. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but objectively speaking, it's a little on the big side."

----

So yeah, lying... There are a lot of things you don't find out about your spouse until you've been married for awhile. Crossdressing is just one more item on the list, and it can be dealt with just like the others are.

[Valerie1973]

You just described my wife. It was all fun and games in the begining. Now, shes not only the member of the prudes but the president. At one time she was polisung my toe nails and putting bras on me and we'd have a few laughs and now that is sick and gross. Everything is gross.

[JulieK1980]

This list IMO exemplifies why so many marriages fail. (Albeit in a funny and amusing way.) Personally I would have no interest in someone that lies, (It's my biggest pet-peeve.) I'd rather be with someone that I can be honest with and is honest with me. I know a lot of people call me an idealist, and think that's unrealistic, but I've been together with my wife for a total of 8 years (including the time we were dating) and to the best of my knowledge there have been no lies. Life's too short for me to have the slightest interest in lying.

[Lorileah]

There are "givens" and there are "Expectations". Many may be blind or ignorant of the "Givens" when they date and marry but they are just part of life in general. Some of these are covered in the dating era, more are covered in the "let's live together" era. Things like bodily functions are givens. Most of us are educated enough now to know that some women have changes during certain times of the month. We are also theoretically smart enough to know that what happens during dating stays in dating (my personal favorite is when a man says "I do" she thinks "Not anymore you won't").

But when it is something that will greatly affect how you get along things need to be out in the open before you make a commitment. I am all for living together before marriage. Things that fall under the "expectations" category should be addressed. It is expected that men will act and dress like men. Not that I agree with the premise but seems 99% of the world does. It is expected that a marriage will result in children. Again that wasn't in my plan but 99% of the world expects that and if you don't want children, it is probably a good idea to tell your spouse before you tie the knot. You may expect your spouse to have a job or stay home. You may expect you spouse to cook. Things that you expect should be discussed. dressing is in that category. If you expect to be accepted as a TG in the relationship, you should bring that up before teh wedding. Just courtesy in my opinion so that she (or he) doesn't invest a lot to find that their expectations are not going to be part of the deal.

Stupid things you did growing up are "givens" after all the male chromosome tends to drive stupid things. You don't need to discuss what has passed and won't likely occur again, but that dress in the closet needs some 'splanin' early on.

[TGMarla]

Uh oh! I'm not going near this one!

Thin ice.jpg

[AnnaCalliope]

This is why I dated my SO for almost 4 years, most of that time spent living together, before I proposed. We got to air out all our dirty laundry, figured out each others quirks and personality defects, and realized that we couldn't see our respective futures without the other included.

Of course, she actually ended up marrying a good friend of mine. But that was after I realized that in order to be truly happy, I had to get on the path to transition, and although we love each other dearly, a pseudo-lesbian relationship is not something either of us is seeking. I still consider her my SO and BFF, regardless of our relationship status.

[carhill2mn]

"Lying" is generally frowned upon. However, the truth is that society is unable to function without several forms, types of lying. A few people have brains that make them tell the blunt truth at all times. These people have a very difficult time functioning in society or maintaing relationships.

The "bad news" is that you can spend many years with and do much talking with a person and still will find out at sometime that all that you believed to be true about this person, is not.

[sissystephanie]

I have said it before and will say it again. If you really don't know who you are marrying, you should not get married!! And knowing means not lying, by either party!! I totally disagree with Carole since I very rarely, if ever, tell a lie!! I was raised to always tell the truth, and strive to do so. And I have no problem functioning in society or maintaining relationships. If you spend many years with and do much talking with a person and then find out that what you believed was not true, you did not do a very good job of learning about the person!! Just my opinion, but I think many will agree!!

[Momarie]

Spoken like a bitter angry little man.
Why is this kind of woman/wife bashing allowed on here?

[Kate Lynn]

You just described my wife. It was all fun and games in the begining. Now, shes not only the member of the prudes but the president. At one time she was polisung my toe nails and putting bras on me and we'd have a few laughs and now that is sick and gross. Everything is gross.

I think she describes about 99% of the GG's in the human race.

[Kaz]

I think... therefore I lie. When will people get there heads around the fact that we do not know what is true and what is not... we interpret... sometimes we get it wrong... this is NOT lying... the only possible extrapolation is that we are all liers... so then it is all about relativity.. i.e. "you are a lier" in my world of whatever I choose to believe as true! One day a lier, the next a prophet... such is life...

[Momarie]

"I sometimes poop, and it smells really bad." (Seriously, I've heard of women who won't poop within a mile of their boyfriend.)

"During my period, I can be as bitchy as I like, and you're supposed to just say 'yes ma'am,' and bring me chocolate."

"I have no sense of humor and generally hate life until sometime after lunch."

"I'm maintaining this svelte figure by living on caffeine, air, and a high degree of anxiety. Later, when I feel truly loved, I will relax and start to eat until I'm roughly twice my current size. Then, I'll demand constant affirmation that you love my new figure as much as you ever loved that earlier one."


Silly silly me.....
You are all right of course, this is exactly how all woman are.
How could I ever read this and think it was bashing women and wives?

I must have been distracted by the breeze blowing up my skirt on my freshly shaven legs.

Silly silly women, how could you accuse your man (oops, sorry LADY ) of lying!

Come on girls fess up, you know all we ever talk about, all we ever think about in our pretty silly heads is how pretty our panties are (Pantie Threads WHOOO-HOOOO ) and who among us has the biggest nipples!

Sorry, I have to go and shave my back now.
Toodles!

[silhouette]

If you used to cross dress, and you don't anymore.. I don't think that needs to be brought up.
It's in the past and that's where it can stay.

If you're going to actively go around erasing evidence, that's different. Don't you think so?
Or when they ask you what you did last night, and you start back trying in your thoughts, trying to put together an answer bc you can't actually tell her. that's different too..


I've been lied to in a relationship. It sucked.. it felt like i got tricked.
This girl pretended to have a lot of will power.. it gained my respect. She lost all this weight and was working out...

Well, turns out she was just bulimic! That's not power, it's a disease.
She tricked me into gaining my respect, and she wasn't the woman that I thought I loved. No, she was just another weak minded bitch like the rest of them.

Moving on... I tell you one thing I hate.. i hate when ppl get married and then immediately let themselves go.

Yeah a lot of ppl do it, but I wouldn't stay with someone like that. It's disgusting.
I understand getting old is one thing, but taking someone for granted is another.

You know what I don't understand?

Why would any of you want to be with someone that doesn't accept you, or cross dressers to begin with????
You come on here, complaining about bigotry, then you go home and sleep with a bigot??? Makes me roll my eyes.

If someone cannot love and accept me for who I am, then they're not worth my time.
Maybe I just have some actual self esteem?? I don't understand some of you girls at all

[Nicole Erin]

Ahh, the single life.
I am not fibbing when I say it is peaceful. No one there razzing me about how I dress, sleep, live, etc.

I think sometimes, the very act of getting married is a lie. You think you want to spend the rest of your life with this ONE person but sooner or later, people decide they want their lives back. My ex and I both did.

And yeah people do often BS their way into situations. I mean who among us has not "embellished" a resume or interview to get a job? Who has not polished their appearance or act to get in bed with someone? Who hasn't told their kids "Santa is watching"....

And with the CD thing - gyod it is NOT that big a deal! First time I told my wife about it, she liked freaked out and was acting like we needed to see a preacher or whatever.. course a few months later when it came up again she was not so weird about it but that is a story for another day...

Marriage is a bad idea in general. Young men are pressured into it, then when it fails, the state liberally gives the ex wife most of the money, the kids, the house, ex, and the ex husband is expected to pay for a lot of it, depending on his income.

[Pythos]

ALAAAAAAAAARMMMMM (RIIIIIIIIIIIIING) Flood tanks!!!! LEt's get out of here chief!!!!!

Yea. I am staying clear of this one like a submarine would steer clear of a destroyer!!!

[Alice Torn]

Twould have been a whole lot less marriages in this wicked old world, if people told the good, bad, and ugly, before marriage. Our world has thrived on lying, or putting up the "false self". I have been to so many weddings, and so many are divorced now! There are no "knights in shining armor", or Prince Charmings", or "Cinderellas". We may be charming, smart, nice, and sexy, but, we all tend to hide the dark side. John Bradshaw used to talk about this. I don't think i have been married, because i was too honest about my faults. "Confidence" is what women want in a man. But, confidence can be deceptive. We all ought to be able to be real, tell the good, bad, and ugly about ourselves, and still be accepted, and to be married. Most everyone waits until after marriage, for the hid stuff to come out. The world is living a lot of lies!

[JulieK1980]

and who among us has the biggest nipples!

"I have nipples Gregg, could you milk me?" -Jack Burns (Meet the Parents)

[Sandra]

So yeah, lying... There are a lot of things you don't find out about your spouse until you've been married for awhile. Crossdressing is just one more item on the list, and it can be dealt with just like the others are.

.....and crossdressing is a hell of a lot more serious item than those that you listed.

[Debglam]

I hate it when things get ugly like this! Frankly, this "CD'ing is lying/not lying" does not have an answer. It is going to be different in every situation/relationship.

Generally speaking, I am in the honesty camp, but I get the impression that some SO's REALLY don't get what it is like to have grown up as a CD or with transgender feelings. You are a small boy 6, 7, 8 years old and you are confronted with circumstances that a) you have no control over; b) everyone and everything tells you it is bad, wrong, evil, etc.; and c) you can't discuss with ANYONE. (Imagine being a young girl at that age and being confronted by something that monumental that you can't even discuss with your mom or dad.) As the years go by, you bury these feelings deeper and deeper and deeper. This goes on your entire life. Maybe you have tried to tell someone about this and you have been ridiculed, abandoned, etc. Or worse. Like I said, I think honesty is the best policy but I think that if your husband comes out to you after marriage or worse, you discover it yourself, you need to think about this. It is not a pass but you need to think about it.

To the GG's, thanks again for your posts. I think that the key is we really need to make an effort to understand each other. I know for me, as a crossdresser, I have a hard time seeing what the big deal is BUT I sure get the fact that whether I get it or not, it IS a big deal for some of you and that is enough.

[Sophie86]

Spoken like a bitter angry little man.
Why is this kind of woman/wife bashing allowed on here?

Seriously? I sound bitter? I have a great relationship with my wife. I don't have anything to be bitter about. I'm just a little tired of having fingers wagged in my face about the fact that I didn't tell my wife when we got together that I occasionally liked to put on women's clothing. She's never chided me about it once, so I'm amazed that other women make such a big deal over it. I don't think it's the lying that's got them bunched. I think if they could in any way be okay with the activity itself, the lying would just be "oh well." The truth is, they're squicked out by guys who dress like women, and they believe that their husbands sold them a faulty set of goods. That's fine if that's how they feel, but why would they want to hang out here and go on and on about how betrayed they feel? We understand from a very early age that acceptance is conditional upon us keeping this facet of ourselves a deep dark secret. That message comes at us from every direction. We consider it a matter of self-preservation that we not tell our secret. When we finally do tell that person closest to us-- or they find it out on their own--there are two ways they can react. Either it's "Oh honey, you never had to keep this a secret. I love you just like you are;" or it's, "OMFG!! All these years of lying!!! You've BETRAYED me!!!" The latter sends the message loud and clear: "If I had known this, I never would have married you." Well okay. But don't sit here and pretend it's about the lying.

.....and crossdressing is a hell of a lot more serious item than those that you listed.

Crossdressing is more serious, or being transsexual is more serious? If you do mean crossdressing, then why is it a serious problem?

[Nigella]

As has been said before, this topic is done on a regular basis and there will never be a common ground.

There will be those, like me who believes that it is right to share this aspect of my life because it has an impact on our life together.

There will be those, who like the OP believes that is is not a topic worth discussing with their SO.

OK so who is right, well no-one and everyone, we all do things which we feel is right for our own situation. So why not call a truce, stop the war and all live in peace, Oh Damn, I forgot we are the human race, we all want to be in the right, we all want to make sure our own opinion is the one that is shouted the loudest.

On a final note, at least for now, get over it and move on.

[Sophie86]

From reading this forum and from listening to my SO, it would seem that a number of CDers didn't fully realize their needs until well into their marriages. Perhaps at a young age they thought about dressing, experimented with it, and considered it a passing fantasy or phase, or felt so guilty about it they completely submerged their urges for years. I wouldn't expect my SO to divulge this to me before getting married--this is something that would be very personal, and if he thought that he'd "gotten rid" of the desires and would have no more need to dress or think about dressing, then why would he tell me about it? I don't consider it lying or deceitful. When my SO did tell me about the dressing, it was before she joined this forum and before she started purchasing things. I felt unhappy about the fact that she'd been thinking about these things (and occasionally acting on them) before telling me, but I did not feel betrayed or lied to. It was more that I felt bad that she felt guilty and had kept this pain to herself.

Thank you for understanding, Mimi. Your SO is very lucky to have you.

Read the entire OP and you'll see genuine examples of both genders concealing possible downsides (and home truths) to their personality, all put in quite a humorous manner.

Thank you for noticing that I was trying to be humorous with it. The stereotypes I used were taken from pretty much every stand up comedian that I've heard in the past 30 years. I was not describing my relationship with my wife, although a few of those things apply to some degree. The main thing is that none of them were deal breakers. It's been a process of discovery, but we've always been committed to dealing with problems as they come up and moving forward together.

There will be those, who like the OP believes that is is not a topic worth discussing with their SO.

That's not a fair characterization of what I said.

Here's the point: This aspect of myself was such a deep dark secret that it would have required a good amount of torture to drag it out of me. I wasn't just hiding it from my wife, I was hiding it from everyone. My dad did his best to brow beat every bit of femininity out of me. Instead, I buried it, and hid it from everyone but myself. Everyone. My wife and I had been married for 14 years when I finally told her. Instead of being outraged that I had hid it all those years, she was glad that I trusted her enough to finally tell her. That's the difference in attitude that I'm talking about. I believe that women who obsess over the lying are really upset about the dressing itself, and are using the lying as a more acceptable thing to beat us up over. That's my position right there, all humor aside.

[Sandra]

It's clothes and makeup. Unless the person wishes to transition that's all it is. Why does everything have to be so serious?

Sophie, I love ya', but speaking from experience, post topics like this in the Private GM Forum...

I'll tell you why it's serious because for most of the wives they have had the bottom drop out of their world, so don't go telling everyone it's clothes and makeup it goes a heck of a lot deeper. If you think that cding is not serious for any SO then try asking some of the SO's on here about how serious it is.

As for posting this in the GM yeah right, it appears that some members on here just don't like people disagreeing with them, so Phoebe is that why you suggested this?.

This is true for SOs of CDers, but I believe in Sandra's case it was quite a lot more. You might want to cut her a little slack.

It's ok Eryn Yes Nigella is not a cder she is infact a TS and I am 110% with her on this path we are walking together. I was just trying to get a point across but yet again it was trivialised.

Crossdressing is more serious, or being transsexual is more serious? If you do mean crossdressing, then why is it a serious problem?

Firstly I did not say it was a problem I said it was more serious. Both are serious and keeping an SO in the dark about either is wrong.

[Maria in heels]

Sophie...I just LOVE THIS LIST ! it is so so true...

[Eryn]

It's clothes and makeup. Unless the person wishes to transition that's all it is. Why does everything have to be so serious?

This is true for SOs of CDers, but I believe in Sandra's case it was quite a lot more. You might want to cut her a little slack.

...I get the impression that some SO's REALLY don't get what it is like to have grown up as a CD or with transgender feelings. You are a small boy 6, 7, 8 years old and you are confronted with circumstances that a) you have no control over; b) everyone and everything tells you it is bad, wrong, evil, etc.; and c) you can't discuss with ANYONE. (Imagine being a young girl at that age and being confronted by something that monumental that you can even discuss with your mom or dad.) As the years go by, you bury these feelings deeper and deeper and deeper. This goes on your entire life. Maybe you have tried to tell someone about this and you have been ridiculed, abandoned, etc. Or worse. Like I said, I think honesty is the best policy but I think that if your husband comes out to you after marriage or worse, you discover it yourself, you need to think about this....

Deb, you've hit the nail on the head. Sometimes this stuff gets buried so deep that it doesn't see the light of day until someone is in their 40s, or 50s. In the meantime, life happens, including marriages. When CDing does emerge, the guilt and revulsion are still there which doesn't exactly assist communication with one's spouse. Remember, men are not trained to be communicators. We're conditioned to be competitive and to not show any possible weakness.

I cannot think of a mirroring situation of the same emotional severity that affects GGs. That makes it very difficult to explain the full magnitude of the concept to them.