Soapbox: Can we be honest for just a minute???

[Briana90802]

Recently I took a creative writing class at my community college and people are suppose to critique you on your writing skills. This way you get honest feedback about what people think and how you might improve.

However, one thing that I noticed was that everyone just told me that they liked it and that it was good. For an entire semester that was the only type of criticism that I received.

I know that no one likes to be the bearer of bad news but how can we improve if we don't give honest feedback? I see many photo on this website and many comments that are just compliments. Where is the honesty? Where is the truth? The Internet is anon these days, it makes it so easy to be honest and yet people arent. How are we to achieve our goals( whatever they may be) if people don't give us their honest opinions and evaluations about outfits, makeup, etc. we are all adults and we are responsible for our own feelings. We can choose to be offended OR choose to see it as a critique.

One of the things that I admire whole heartedly about two gg relationships is the acknowledgment that honesty will help the other gg.

[Amber_Lynn]

Here's my short answer. I think most supporters here are trying to keep the messages positive. As you know it's very hard to find acceptance in out very small world so many turn to sites like this for the positive feedback.

What would help would be constructive comments, but I think most avoid them because even those can be construed as negative.

[GMCD]

I think Amber has a good point.

When I was part of a support group we would have open critique sessions. Basically, we'd go around the room and each person would critique each other person in the room. We'd point out what people were doing well and then gently point out what they weren't doing so well. It was genuinely intended to be helpful for everyone and generally everyone took each comment in the spirit of help. Unfortunately, it also led to some very embarrassing situations and inevitably someone's feelings would be hurt. Even those who seemed to take the comments well often felt and looked noticeably uncomfortable after the sessions and in meetings that followed. Some just never came back afterwards. It's touchy when you point out the flaws of others, even if it's meant to uplift them and encourage them. It was tough enough in a room where we were all friends and many of us had really gotten to know each other personally, I imagine it would be doubly so in a forum where our relationships are far more limited and the written word can be easily misinterpreted.

That being said, I do believe that we are far too quick to lavish praises on the "better looking" girls and to just completely ignore those who don't "meet a certain standard." I know that that isn't always the case and we all try to wear our "tranny viewing goggles" when commenting on any photo, but it always bothers me more than a little when a person who looks very female and pretty and what not has pages of gushing compliments while the folks who don't quite hit that mark get few comments praising what they did get right or offering truly caring advice in a loving manner.

That's just my two-cents, though. I've been known to be terribly wrong and uninformed, so take what you will from it.

Much love!

[Katesback]

When it comes to pictures. I will tell someone if they look good. If they dont I simply wont say anything. Reasonable. The problem with the trans community is that often when someone says something that is seen as negative many jump in and say your attacking them. Why would anyone be honest if that was what they were going to face?

[Karren H]

I tried to be honest but many times it came across as hurtful... And got my hands slapped.. Too many times.. So unless I can say something nice without sounding fake or contrived... I'll set on my hands... Which is really hard for me.. Really really hard...

[Briana90802]

I'm all for positive, but a critique is neither positive or negative, but more over a suggested course of action that may improve the overall functionality. As far as mis-construing things we should all take things with a grain of salt. people take offense so easily these day. We react instead of thinking and then acting accordingly.

You can choose to react to a criticism or think about it and act appropriately.

[Sophie86]

Unless people specifically ask for a critique, I don't assume that's what they're looking for when they post their pics. If they do ask for a critique, and I can't find something nice to say, I don't say anything. I live in a glass house, so I have to be real careful.

[GMCD]

Yes, we can each choose to be mature and accept things as adults and not get worked up over things that don't matter. Unfortunately, we can't make others be the same and we have no control over their reactions to our comments. Thus, in order to minimize conflict many are choosing to take the high road and either say only nice things or say nothing at all. That is the only way we seem to be able to ensure that hurt feelings, conflicts, and outright battles are kept to a minimum. It's better to be polite first than to apologize later (even if our intent was a good one).

[Karren H]

Many show a ton of courage just posting here... Being scared and deep in the closet... So well meaning criticism can damage their confidence severely. Just saying.

[Amanda22]

Unless people specifically ask for a critique, I don't assume that's what they're looking for when they post their pics. If they do ask for a critique, and I can't find something nice to say, I don't say anything. I live in a glass house, so I have to be real careful.

Sophie, I follow that policy, too, but you word it better than I could. I'm not trying to be clever or funny...just really honest...you look very, very pretty.

[RachelOKC]

I'm all for positive, but a critique is neither positive or negative, but more over a suggestion course of action that may improve the overall functionality. As far as mis-construing things we should all take things with a grain of salt. people take offense so easily these day. We react instead of thinking and then acting accordingly.

You can choose to react to a criticism or think about it and act appropriately.

I have to agree with Kate and Karren, criticism - especially on personal appearance - is too often interpreted as attack when anything negative is brought up. In that circumstance, better to be generally complimentary or say nothing at all. If you asked "which wig is better, A, B, or C?" and I said "None," how might you feel? Maybe a bit hurt that I don't like any of your choices? I've found that a lot of people who ask for advice or criticism don't really want it, they just want affirmation they've done the right thing.

There are places for tough criticism however. I recently proofread and edited a screenplay for a friend, and wound up deconstructing it with comments on almost every line. I was very forthright that her story was not good as written but it did have a lot of great ideas within. Did it hurt? Certainly, since nobody likes to see their entire document marked up in red. Will she make a better second draft? If she takes the constructive advice I offered, no doubt. She said as much herself and also said she wouldn't have had me work on it if she didn't trust me.

[Babette]

Well Briana let me get out my big red pen and critique your writing style. Ooops, that is not your point.

Seriously, I firmly believe effective criticism is an art and it must be done by the right person. I am not personally familiar with your creative writing instructor nor their motive of using peer reviews. However, I wonder if some leaders (e.g. teachers, supervisors) do this because they don't want to be the viewed as the "bad guy/gal". People tend to be kind until feelings are hurt. Then exercises in peer review becomes a war of retaliation.

I am not always the right person to offer effective criticism. Case in point: If my wife asks a friend to comment on her new hair style, she will likely accept their less-than-favorable review than from me. That goes along with the clichéd "Does this outfit make my backside look too big", question.

Briana, are your questions of "Where is the truth" and "Where is the honesty" really metaphors for "Where are the negative comments for a horrible picture post"? Please tell me if I am wrong but have you seen photos deserving less praise than was given? If so, how many times did you provide your version of a truthful and honest assessment?

A lot members are scared to death when they join this forum. Some are totally closeted while others have deep feelings of insecurity. For many, posting photos is terrifying and I admire their courage. They may not have the best makeup, clothes, photography skills, or natural-born looks but in my heart and in my comments I will offer them hope.

Babette

[Kim_Bitzflick]

I think CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is good for people in general and I like to receive it once in a while. The key word here is constructive. I would not like to receive criticism that just says "you could do better with your makeup" or "You look like a hooker". Those comments are too general and basically hurtful - especially if I took hours to do my makeup and just bought the outfit.

Constructive criticism offers help to change what needs to be changed. So if it is asked for, I will give my opinion and suggest changes and I hope others would do the same for me. We just need to present it in a helpful tone.

That being said, I also agree that if someone does not ask for help or my/our opinion, I will not give it unless I can say something nice.

[VioletJourney]

I try to give constructive feedback in a positive tone.

[Karren H]

I think CONSTRUCTIVE criticism is good for people in general

Personally I'd rather people lie and tell me how pretty I am!

[Fractured]

I have to agree with Kate and Karren, criticism - especially on personal appearance - is too often interpreted as attack when anything negative is brought up. In that circumstance, better to be generally complimentary or say nothing at all. If you asked "which wig is better, A, B, or C?" and I said "None," how might you feel? Maybe a bit hurt that I don't like any of your choices? I've found that a lot of people who ask for advice or criticism don't really want it, they just want affirmation they've done the right thing.

There are places for tough criticism however. I recently proofread and edited a screenplay for a friend, and wound up deconstructing it with comments on almost every line. I was very forthright that her story was not good as written but it did have a lot of great ideas within. Did it hurt? Certainly, since nobody likes to see their entire document marked up in red. Will she make a better second draft? If she takes the constructive advice I offered, no doubt. She said as much herself and also said she wouldn't have had me work on it if she didn't trust me.

This is the crux of the problem. Interpersonal skills is an art - it takes time and effort to learn how to give criticism in a manner that is honest yet hopefully will not hurt the receiver's feelings. And you never know if you will hurt the receiver's feelings until after the fact.

One of the big points taught when receiving training on providing feedback is to provide positive feedback then deliver the negative criticism. Can we balance the significance level of both forms of feedback? Extreme example - "I love the necklace you're wearing but you should not be wearing spandex!" The positive comment on the necklace is outweighed by the implied attack on the person's weight. Could it be that a lot of the constructive criticism is not provided for lack of a way to couch it in an acceptable manner?

[Momarie]

So many excellent points....especially Amber_Lynn, GMCD & Katesback.

....I think most supporters here are trying to keep the messages positive. As you know it's very hard to find acceptance in out very small world so many turn to sites like this for the positive feedback.

....I do believe that we are far too quick to lavish praises on the "better looking" girls and to just completely ignore those who don't "meet a certain standard."

....The problem with the trans community is that often when someone says something that is seen as negative many jump in and say your attacking them. Why would anyone be honest if that was what they were going to face?



My worry is I've read some CD's say they are just gutted~devastated by the least little thing....I don't want to be responsible for that.

On the other hand, some girls are so secure and confident in who they are they can take it.
For example, a few days ago I told docrobsherry her masks had given me bad dreams.
She didn't attack me, far from it, she was very sweet and made a point in private pm to let me know she didn't think I was rude at all.
I feel like she's my buddy now.

It's a fine line, I don't like to be attacked but when you find your voice around here it's gonna happen (especially to a gg).

I also don't like the "pretty" "passable" girls getting so much attention.
Some photos get pages and pages of comments and others tons of views and only a handful of comments...that must hurt.
It just makes me think so highly of the women who consistantly offer support to all, not just the"pretty" ones.

[KellyCD]

You can't be honest in this forum, or else you'll get flamed or labeled a "religous fanatic".

This place has a "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything. Everything is unicorns and rainbows great" attitude sometimes.

[Kaz]

OK... I want constructive criticism... that is who I am and how I live my life... it enables me to move forward in a positive direction. I have had, as many of us will have have had, years of unconstructibe and even destructive criticism. Briana, I can take the point you made, but you have to think about the context... For example (extreme) my father is dying, this may or may not be the last time I see him - I give him honest and open criticism "Dad you look like s**t you are so going to be dead soon"... This may be honest, but I do not regard it as being positive or in the best interests of anyone concerned, not least my father.

So... many people here want affirmation rather than criticism... me I welcome critique because I am trying to do what I can with an ageing body and any advice is good advice... but I am fighting a lost cause.. eventually I won't be able to pull off the miracle that amazes me in front of the mirror... and it is getting close!

There is no point in being destructive, but constructive criticism is harder than it appears... for it mean anything you have to be in the mind of the receiver and adjust the message accordingly... I guess PMs help in this regard!

[Tina B.]

I agree with both Karren and Kaz, I think the most of us would like to hear I'm pretty, I dress for me, at home, and I don't want you telling me I look like a fat old man and I ought to be doing this or that, just say nice outfit, wigs nice, or you did a nice job on your make up. That is if I did, if not< I still happy, why would you want to spoil it for me. And I agree with Kaz, if you think it's important enough, PM it, get between the two of you, less embarrassing for the one being schooled. Oh, one last thing, if you are going you criticize someone, be sure, real sure you are right. My Daddy always told me if you had nothing good to say about someone, just whistle, I can still whistle a pretty good tune when I need to.
Tina B.

[Rianna Humble]

I know that no one likes to be the bearer of bad news but how can we improve if we don't give honest feedback? I see many photo on this website and many comments that are just compliments. Where is the honesty? Where is the truth? The Internet is anon these days, it makes it so easy to be honest and yet people arent.

I don't venture into the photo threads very often, but I always work by the same rule, if I cannotr say anything positive then I definitely won't say anything negative on its own. On the other hand, if I can find something to praise, then I fel I have the moral right to make a suggestion for how something could be done differently and in my opinion possibly better.

If you try hard enough, you can often find a way to praise the effort that a person has made and then gently introduce suggestions for how they could improve. I work in a support role at my place of employment and am often horrified by the negative way some of my colleagues dismiss their customers simply because the customer did not know something or another rather than explaining it to the customer. Perhaps it is not for nothing that (unlike those colleagues) when I have to tell someone I cannot help them, they generally thank me. I apply the same standard to my conduct here.

However anonymous you may feel, we need to remember that there is a real person on the other end of our "anonymous" criticism. That person has done their very best and has made themselves vulnerable by posting a photo of themself for all to see. Just relying on your anonymity to post harsh criticism about someone is not going to make that person any less hurt by your words.

You ask where is the honesty, well sometimes it is more honest to say nothing than to blithely destroy another person.

[DonnaT]

Unless people specifically ask for a critique, I don't assume that's what they're looking for when they post their pics.

Agreed, so there's no reason to give a critique.

If they do ask for a critique, and I can't find something nice to say, I don't say anything. I live in a glass house, so I have to be real careful.

I've no problem giving constructive criticism, when it's asked for.

[Sedona]

Briana, only thing I can add is that if someone REALLY wants the honest truth ("Do I look 100% GG???"), they should ask for feedback of this nature by asking for PMs to be sent, not on the public Pictures forum. Will people be 100% honest on the public forums? Well, not really, but the name of the game is confidence and realizing that this lifestyle/habit/calling/whatever of ours isn't going away, and that we may as well take whatever positivity from this group that most of the rest of the world doesn't provide.

[carhill2mn]

My tendency is to either make a positive comment, one that is neutral, or none at all. Many people do not want "constructive criticsm". A few do ask for it. In such a case, I would rather reply privately than publicly. After all, it would only be my opinion that I was expressing.

[Joanagreenleaf]

For just for a second there I thought someone was going to suggest your next class be in spelling, grammar, and/or, punctuation.

But, alas, the moment was lost.

No, wait... Here it is! I found it!

If you want better replies, make better efforts...

I don't think your query, as composed, is the best you can do in posing a question.

Honesty, proofread your work and don't send half done work out for "honest" replies.

Do you think most people are going to want to hurt your, "feelings"?

Nah.

Because they don't honestly care if you get better or not...

Silly is as silly does.

Serious people, on the other hand....

Will rip you a new one - and wait for you to figure out your old one wasn't so great.