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Thread: I am in the closet. Please be kind, respect my decision, and spare me the insults.

  1. #1
    ghost Anne2345's Avatar
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    I am in the closet. Please be kind, respect my decision, and spare me the insults.

    Until joining this forum earlier this year, I had not knowingly communicated with another crossdresser, or attempted to do so. I am in my early 40s, and have been a crossdresser my entire life. Although I have a wonderful and accepting wife, I came to the realization that something was missing in my life – discussion with and friendship from other crossdressers. So I took the plunge, and not without some small measure of unfounded consternation, joined the forum.

    Upon joining, I was welcomed with warm, loving, and open arms, for which I am quite grateful. It was amazing. I could not believe such a place as this existed. As a result of participating on this forum, and considering other members' thoughts and ideas, I have learned so much about myself, and considered aspects of crossdressing that had not previously occurred to me. This forum has provided me with an incredible experience, and has opened my mind to a deeper understanding and appreciation of not only myself, but crossdressing in general.

    But what is the true purpose of this forum? On a post I submitted recently (“My Closet is My Blessed Sanctuary. Is Yours?”), I wrote about my thoughts and opinions on residing in the closet, and that, for me, it is a positive experience. In response to my post, a fellow member posted the following:

    Loserville has honored citizens...

    I'm not surprised that so many people "here" support the delusions celebrated in the original post.
    Meh.
    The question asked was, "What about my view of the closet"?
    It's a box, a windowless place with a door, dark most of the time...
    You want to live there, and worship the voices in your head, while fingering your frills go ahead.
    "Society" is you too, and "we" can get along with a minority of members not participating.
    If you were to come out and participate, society would change - in ways you'd like.
    But, you won't make the effort, which leaves others to do "the work" for you - as the OP notes - and "loves" us for.
    Spare me your poetry and prose about "your" useless to the rest of us closet.
    Pity some of you private "PMer's" won't do more than the OP...
    What a waste of numbers.
    Although I can appreciate the frustration this member must feel, and her desire for acceptance from society, I am quite disheartened and confused by the message, and the negative manner in which it was conveyed.

    Personally, I did not join this forum to be shamed by other crossdressers that do not respect my desire and need to remain in the closet. I did not join this forum to be made to feel inferior to crossdressers that decide to go public, and to be told I lack courage. I most definitely did not join this forum to be told by another crossdresser that I am a resident of “Loserville.”

    Although true the above-referenced post is a rather extreme example of an offensive, arrogant, and intolerant post, I have noticed that there are other members that hold and express similar views within other threads. Obviously, everyone is entitled to their opinion, and has a right to express their opinion. Open debate and discussion provides the cornerstone of freedom, and it is to be cherished, honored, and exercised without fear of oppression and reprisal. And if it is not already quite evident by my other posts, I thoroughly enjoy debate and discussion as much as the next girl. There is much to be learned through the consideration of different and/or opposing viewpoints, and the mental exercise of such consideration can be quite rewarding.

    However, in my opinion, ranting about closeted crossdressers that refuse to go public, dismissing such crossdressers’ privacy without even the slightest consideration for the crossdressers’ circumstances, and utilizing negative bullying tactics designed to shame does not constitute healthy or productive debate and discussion in my book.

    The irony of it all is that this sub-group of crossdressers believe strongly in the most noblest of pursuits - freedom of self-expression and freedom from persecution. But what about my freedom to remain in the closet? Is my freedom to choose my own path any less important or less relevant than someone who chooses a different path? If the message is that society will accept us if we all come out together in numbers, how can we possibly expect society to be civil to and understanding of us when we cannot even be civil to and understanding of members within our own ranks?

    Regardless, I am in the closet, and that is where I shall remain. Call me a citizen of “Loserville” all you want. I will not change my mind. I have worked hard for my education and career. I have a family. I have a mortgage, car payments, and a plethora of other bills to pay. When I lose my job as a result of coming out, who is going to pay my bills? Who is going to feed my family? When my child goes to school, who is going to take care of her, and protect her from the playground bullies that will discriminate against her for the mere reason that her father is a crossdresser? What about the consequences to my wife? She is not a crossdresser, but she married one. I could go on and on and on, but I am sure you get the point. But even beyond this, what about the simple freedom to remain silent about my crossdressing for no other reason than I believe it is no one else’s business, and I choose not to share?

    So what exactly is the purpose of this forum? Is it a support group forum? Is it an activist forum? Is it a combination of the two?

    Although I appreciate, respect, and support issues worthy of activism as much as the next girl (and crossdressing is most certainly a worthy cause, and I have heaped high praise on such girls in the past, and will continue to do so in the future), I simply cannot sacrifice everything I have worked for simply because an intolerant and unforgiving crossdresser has called me inferior, weak, and a loser.

    As to the question I have asked, I believe this forum is a support group forum. I have met many wonderful girls here, and have made some fantastic friends. I look forward to meeting more of you in the future, developing further my friendships, and forging more. If the crossdressers’ cause of freedom and acceptance by society is also somehow furthered by certain members of this forum, or the forum itself, then that is fantastic! In this regard, I have absolutely no doubt that this forum has opened many curious eyes throughout its existence, both crossdressers and non-crossdressers alike. I cannot help but conclude and believe that this forum has had a tremendous, positive impact on the cause of the crossdresser, and will continue to do so.

    But to those members within the forum that disagree with other members’ viewpoints, I simply ask that you be respectful and civil with your discourse. In my opinion, this forum is quite special. I know I am not alone in this sentiment. I do not come here to be offended and insulted. I come here to learn, share, participate, offer support, and to make friends. I sincerely hope that is not too much to ask for.

    Speaking of friendship and civil discourse, my friend Frederique recently submitted a post entitled “Discussion – a topic worthy of discussion?” For those of you that feel a need to put done and insult closeted crossdressers, or crossdressers of any kind, for that matter, I suggest you read her post. I previously mentioned that I have learned much since joining this forum. Perhaps, just maybe, you can learn something, too.

  2. #2
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Sounds good to me Anne. How can we expect the respect of society if we cannot respect each other? We are who we are, nothing more or less. I suppose many will say I'm a loser because for the most part I don't CD any more. It served it's purpose in my life to help me get in touch with myself and my feelings. Does that mean I'm a "traitor" for the "cause" ? Doubtful! I still have many CD friends here which is one reason I hang out even if I don't do it myself. We are all who we are for a reason and in my book, it's the person who is valued regardless of chosen appearance. That is what it is really all about.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  3. #3
    the happy camper
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    I agree...

    Well put, Anne. I can't add anything to what you've already said except a big thumbs up.

  4. #4
    Addicted To Lipstick donnatracey's Avatar
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    Anne, thank you so much for posting - very well said! Thank you......

  5. #5
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    Hi Anne:
    I am with you in the closet, In fact, I built a addition to the house so I would have a bigger closet to Rome around
    in. My wife accepts my dressing; but to leave the house is out of the question. I would never pass in a million
    years; I am built like a Lumber Jack, (6' 3" and 300 lbs) With huge hands, arms, and the curse of a size 14 shoe.
    So I an happy in the closet.
    Ont thing from being on this forum, is I now have the courage to under dress a lot more often than before joining.
    I wear Panties 24-7, Bra about 75% of the time, Fem Jeans most of the time. 2 years ago, I would never even
    consider doing such a thing.
    I have about 10 dresses, and a number of skirts that I wear around the house when I can, and the wife approves.
    So you are not alone in the closet, and for the forum, well I am very glad to find and be a part of this great place.
    Rader

  6. #6
    Fashionista VeronicaMoonlit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anne2345 View Post
    Personally, I did not join this forum to be shamed by other crossdressers that do not respect my desire and need to remain in the closet. I did not join this forum to be made to feel inferior to crossdressers that decide to go public, and to be told I lack courage. I most definitely did not join this forum to be told by another crossdresser that I am a resident of “Loserville.”
    I would say it differently than the person you referred to. I tend to say, closets are for clothes, not for people. There are some who would say that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. But I'll say more about that a bit later.

    However, in my opinion, ranting about closeted crossdressers that refuse to go public, dismissing such crossdressers’ privacy without even the slightest consideration for the crossdressers’ circumstances, and utilizing negative bullying tactics designed to shame does not constitute healthy or productive debate and discussion in my book.
    Perhaps, but some crossdressers fear of what "might" happen if they leave the safety of the closet are unfounded. Then again, one such as myself shouldn't be excessively pushy on the matter.

    Regardless, I am in the closet, and that is where I shall remain. Call me a citizen of “Loserville” all you want. I will not change my mind. I have worked hard for my education and career. I have a family. I have a mortgage, car payments, and a plethora of other bills to pay. When I lose my job as a result of coming out, who is going to pay my bills? Who is going to feed my family?
    Who says you would lose your job as a result of coming out? There are places that have employment protections for transgendered people, you know. So if you lived in such a place and didn't have to worry, would you come out? If you didn't live in such a place, why not work to get such legislation in place. Wouldn't that be a good thing? You wouldn't even have to come out, to support such things. If more places had such things then coming out would be less worrisome, correct?

    When my child goes to school, who is going to take care of her, and protect her from the playground bullies that will discriminate against her for the mere reason that her father is a crossdresser?
    who says she would be bullied? You know, there are places where bullying of any kind isn't tolerated. When I was young I never saw anyone bullied because of their parents, it was always something about the kid themselves.

    So what exactly is the purpose of this forum? Is it a support group forum? Is it an activist forum? Is it a combination of the two?
    A little bit of this, a little bit of that.

    I simply cannot sacrifice everything I have worked for simply because an intolerant and unforgiving crossdresser has called me inferior, weak, and a loser.
    Who says you would have to sacrifice anything? That's fear talking. Some of it may be reasonable, but some of it isn't.

    I previously mentioned that I have learned much since joining this forum. Perhaps, just maybe, you can learn something, too.
    Hmmph, learn something new...here? Perhaps, but not too much likely for me. I'm a veteran of Trans Usenet....what you see here now I saw 12 years ago. Including massive numbers of "what color are your pnaties" and "pnatyhose vs stockings" threads.

    It was on USENET that someone gave me a kick in the pants to get out of the closet (in certain ways) similar to what was given you. In fact, I wouldn't have been there or here without an individual act of opening up to my immediate family, and both of those were very good things.

    Veronica
    If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
    We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
    Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.

  7. #7
    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    I disagree with a lot of people but I don't attack them over it (though sometimes my humor doesn't come across)... And I don't hate them (though you fem jeans wearers are on the hairy edge!!).. Not everyone is the same and if this is just a mutual admiration society then I'm moving on... Maybe I've developed a thick skin being out there for so long but I don't take anything that people say to me or about me to heart. They have their opinion and I have mine. People come here for different reasons and take away what they want to take... For me its friendship which translates over to other social sites and entertainment value... Its fun... So like the real world, people will be people and you have to expect the occasional A-hole to pop up and say bad things. I do.. And it doesn't get under my skin.. Much. Any more. Lol.
    Current Obsession - Breasts and Lingerie!

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  8. #8
    Diamond Member Persephone's Avatar
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    Hi Anne,

    I did not get a chance to read your original post nor the insulting comment that was made.

    I am likely to be one of the most "out and about" crossdressers around and I completely respect and endorse your decision to live your life in a way in which you are most comfortable.

    My life, no matter how much I love it, does come with some costs. It isn't always a fairy tale out here and there aren't always happy endings. No-one should be pushed or challenged into being "out." Making it seem like a contest or a dare is wrong. Terribly wrong, and it could have very negative consequences for some.

    The person who apparently posted her opinion of "Loserville" appears to be someone who believes in mass movements and demands for "social change." In advocating for "the group" she is likely to be perfectly willing to sacrifice the individual. That's fine for those who hold such beliefs, so long as those they sacrifice do so of their own free will. Personally, I have no interest in being a part of any such "movement," let alone being part of its cannon fodder.

    Please use this forum as a place to learn, to teach, and to enjoy and never allow anyone to make you feel "wrong" about your choices. Do the things that allow you to love and enjoy your life and be the Goddess of your own path.

    Hugs,
    Persephone.
    "If you are living the life you want to live you've successfully transitioned to being the person you want to be." - Eryn.

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    -.-. --.-/-.-. --.-/-.-. -../ Persephone™ and Persephone™ are trademarks of Persephone herself, accept no substitutes. The terms "en femme" and "en drab" originated with Marcia Sampson/Staylace (OBM).

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    I don't think anyone needs to feel that they are obliged to live thier life on someone else's terms, and I'm sorry if some people in this group imply that there's a standard that others must follow. If I must be categorized, I'd fall in the "partially out" sector, because I am out to wife, a few relatives, and a couple of friends, and I'm en femme most of the time, although not in public. These are my choices, and work in my situation.

  10. #10
    Junior Member clairebostock's Avatar
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    Hi Anne
    like so meny here i am with you, as i have said before it is no shame that you are in the "closet", so what !!
    now i have been out in the big bad world dressed, but i won't make anyone else do it if they don't want to. i have coffee mornings at my home for those "girls" who cant or don't want to go out. and enjoy dressing and chatting making new friend's. the girls that come to the coffee morning some are smooth and some not but who care's ? we are all crossdressers why do some out their have to bitch about others who do what they want to do ??
    just my two penny's worth.

    good luck to you and your family . Claire

  11. #11
    Live Every minute Carla's Avatar
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    I am of the opinion that the vast majority of the members of this forum ARE indeed in the closet. Some are trying to get out and some are not. To each her own. I am out with my wife, and a handful of crossdressers I have met socially at events, but that is it. It is not my goal to go much further. I like my closet!!!! It's where my clothes are for Pete's sake!! And I don't need anyone "working on my behalf" to make society accepting of crossdressers.

    For those out of the closet, if that is what you want then good for you. For myself, and most otheres here. We will step out or not, based on our own personal situations.

    KUDOS on your original post and this one.

  12. #12
    Aspiring Member Amanda22's Avatar
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    The bullying and judgment you see on this forum is a by-product of having humans for members. This happens everywhere, though it isn't requisite. No, it is not helpful. Obviously, if anyone wants to stay in the closet, that's their decision and should be respected. Although I say "obviously", evidence on this forum shows that sentiment isn't universal.

    Even if you're totally out of the closet, you can still be made to feel inferior by others on this forum. Example: a few months ago I asked if anyone felt a sort of "naughty thrill" when going out dressed en femme. I didn't mean anything sexual, but meant something along the lines of doing something so utterly unconventional that it was a rush. I got several holier-than-thou responses along the lines of "I'm not doing this for thrills; it's who I am!" Well, duh, it's who we all are. Geez. It made me angry that a very few took advantage of my post to boost themselves.

    Anyhow, being a CDer is a lot easier if you can desensitize yourself to others' reactions. If you ever decide to venture out of the closet, believe me, you'll need to exercise the ol' water-off-a-duck's back skills. Just last Sunday afternoon, I was in Publix shopping and a mother and daughter were right behind me in line at the checkout. The mother whispered something to her daughter, and her daughter kept looking at me laughing. Initially, I was angry because of their disrespect. Then I thought, "Who would I rather be? Myself who is living authentically and very courageously to grocery shop in skirt, blouse, etc., or a blatantly disrespecting fool who wears dirty sweatpants and flip flops in public?"

    Bottom line, idiots are all around us. It's more productive to focus on our reactions to them than to try to change them.
    Last edited by Amanda22; 06-14-2011 at 02:06 PM. Reason: grammar correction!

  13. #13
    I'm not really here Stacy L's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit View Post
    I would say it differently than the person you referred to. I tend to say, closets are for clothes, not for people. There are some who would say that if you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. But I'll say more about that a bit later.



    Perhaps, but some crossdressers fear of what "might" happen if they leave the safety of the closet are unfounded. Then again, one such as myself shouldn't be excessively pushy on the matter.



    Who says you would lose your job as a result of coming out? There are places that have employment protections for transgendered people, you know. So if you lived in such a place and didn't have to worry, would you come out? If you didn't live in such a place, why not work to get such legislation in place. Wouldn't that be a good thing? You wouldn't even have to come out, to support such things. If more places had such things then coming out would be less worrisome, correct?



    who says she would be bullied? You know, there are places where bullying of any kind isn't tolerated. When I was young I never saw anyone bullied because of their parents, it was always something about the kid themselves.



    A little bit of this, a little bit of that.



    Who says you would have to sacrifice anything? That's fear talking. Some of it may be reasonable, but some of it isn't.



    Hmmph, learn something new...here? Perhaps, but not too much likely for me. I'm a veteran of Trans Usenet....what you see here now I saw 12 years ago. Including massive numbers of "what color are your pnaties" and "pnatyhose vs stockings" threads.

    It was on USENET that someone gave me a kick in the pants to get out of the closet (in certain ways) similar to what was given you. In fact, I wouldn't have been there or here without an individual act of opening up to my immediate family, and both of those were very good things.

    Veronica
    Veronica, how does your wife feel about you being so open?



    .
    I spend a lot of time in the closet, because that's where my clothes are.

  14. #14
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    ANNE, wasn't it nice of VeronicaMoonlit to give you yet another example of those who are intolerant of other cd's wishing to stay in the closet? She quoted you seven times, with a response for each, usually with a counter to your reasons for staying closeted. For example: "Who says you woud lose your job as a result of coming out?" You do, Anne! Just because others have a job situation tolerant of the transgendered doesn't mean that all do. I trust your judgement of your own situation, and your assessment that you could lose your job if you came out. I know I would lose mine. My boss is strongly homophobic, and believes that crossdressers are all gay, so if I know what's good for me, I'll stay in the closet. It is naive to think that a boss can't get rid of anyone he doesn't want working for him. If not for crossdressing, he'll find another reason. Yes, some crossdressers fear what "might" happen, and it's not worth the risk, so we're staying put - in the closet.
    As for the "if you're not part of of the solution, you're part of the problem" comment. What's the problem, general public's acceptance of crossdressers? What's the solution? Sacrificing yourself, your security, your job and income, etc., so that other crossdressers get that acceptance some day (year, decade..) If others want to come out, do it. But back off those of us who wish to stay in the closet and not be a martyr for that cause.
    Having said all that, Anne, we need to realize that there are going to be people who think their way is the only way. We need to grow a thicker skin, because those types will not go away.

  15. #15
    Platinum Member Eryn's Avatar
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    This forum is many things to many people, ranging from a focus for activism to simply being a safe place to discuss our common interest. Forcing one's own image of CDing onto another is wrong and people who do such things are best ignored.

    Encouragement is a good thing. If someone says "I'd like to go out" then it is quite proper to encourage them and to celebrate with them their experiences. If someone says that they are happily closeted then it is equally improper to belittle them for that decision.

    Any time you post in a public forum you run the risk of a response from someone who either doesn't understand or simply doesn't care what you are saying. Don't let them get you down. Ignore them and concentrate on the positive.

    Hugs, Eryn
    Eryn
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  16. #16
    Out and About Jannette H's Avatar
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    Anne,
    I started out there and I believe many others did also. Don't let others get you down.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  17. #17
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    News....

    Newsflash!

    You are no longer in your closet.

    Congratulations.

    No need to thank me - but it's OK if you do.

  18. #18
    Aspiring Member kendra_gurl's Avatar
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    Veronica's comments are typical of the "trans"community here on this site. I have absolutely nothing against the "trans" community but I do not have very much in common with them. I don't think most "crossdressers" relate well either with those "trans" members either. Their mission is not to enjoy playing dress up in private or public but to try and get the general public to accept that it is their right to dress however they want. I do not disagree with that but its not why I dress nor is it very important to me.
    While my wife and I are comfortable in going out in public we still only do so in places where friends and family will never see us and that is how we want to keep it. As you said that is our right and no one has the right to try to change that.

    I wish the powers that be here would see the need for a split in the Male to Female Crossdressers form and create a separate form for Transgendered members just like the one for Transsexuals.

    I strongly believe the girls who consider themselves transgendered are a small minority of the Male to Female Crossdressers group.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendra_gurl View Post
    ...

    I wish the powers that be here would see the need for a split in the Male to Female Crossdressers form and create a separate form for Transgendered members just like the one for Transsexuals.
    With the exception of the GGs everyone on this forum is transgendered.
    Listen carefully to what is said, quite often you can hear what is not being said

    The joy of correcting a mistake can bring pain to another

  20. #20
    Breakin' social taboos TGMarla's Avatar
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    I'm with Anne on this one, just like I was before. And I was shocked to read the response she got calling her a resident of "Loserville". So uncalled for! Too often I have seen girls on this site get browbeaten into going out into the great big world, long before they're really ready to, only to experience something bad that they weren't expecting. We all live under different circumstances, and if we have any respect for those circumstances, we need to recognize those when we make decisions for ourselves like when or when not to expose ourselves as crossdressers to the rest of society. There is no hierarchy to crossdressing. Transgendered people, or transexuals, are not a higher being than "mere" crossdressers. Many of us are content to just stay put and enjoy our time to ourselves. This is not some great crusade for everyone in this community. If you want to be some transgendered warrior, then have at it. But not everyone is a militant crossdresser, and the great crusade is not for everyone.

    I find Anne's posts to be pleasant and uplifting. I am glad she's a member here. Perhaps some of the militant posters here could learn a little something about civility from her.

    Anne, you rock. Don't let anyone tell you differently. Don't let the haters bring you down. They have issues, and they're just trying to hand them off on you.

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  21. #21
    Aspiring Member kendra_gurl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nigella View Post
    With the exception of the GGs everyone on this forum is transgendered.
    And just how do you come up with that ridiculous argument?
    I do not consider myself transgendered at all just because I enjoy to crossdress on occasion. Just as when A GG enjoys doing anything more commonly defined as male it does not make them transgendered.

    I mentioned going out in the back yard practicing my golf swing in my post but that does not necessarly mean I am a Golfer or even play the game
    Last edited by kendra_gurl; 06-14-2011 at 04:02 PM.

  22. #22
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    Well said Anne!!! I do agree with you. As a closet girl myself, I know how you feel. Its a choice I made, and I remain happy with it. I enjoy reading about other cds who do go out, and wish them well.

  23. #23
    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    Nothing wrong with staying in the closet, but you understand if we encourage someone to come out, right? It's part of the development of our crossdressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by kendra_gurl View Post
    And just how do you come up with that ridiculous argument?
    I do not consider myself transgendered at all just because I enjoy to crossdress on occasion. Just as when A GG enjoys doing anything more commonly defined as male it does not make them transgendered.
    trans=to go beyond
    gender=social expectations associated with sex
    Therefore, since we go beyond social expectations, we are all transgendered.

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member Amanda22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kendra_gurl View Post
    And just how do you come up with that ridiculous argument?
    I do not consider myself transgendered at all just because I enjoy to crossdress on occasion. Just as when A GG enjoys doing anything more commonly defined as male it does not make them transgendered.

    I mentioned going out in the back yard practicing my golf swing in my post but that does not necessarly mean I am a Golfer or even play the game
    There are many threads for the label discussion. Let's stay on topic.

  25. #25
    Gold Member Cynthia Anne's Avatar
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    Anne sweetie! I agree everyone is entitled to there own opinion! It has been said, "opinions are like a--holes! Everybody's got one! But when you can"t tell the differant by the smell, you must consider that person is showing theirs! (and I don't mean there opinion)! I think what you are saying here was well thought out and came from the heart! For this I thank you! For those that SMELL, my signature is what I have to offer you! Hugs!
    If you don't like the way I'm livin', you just leave this long haired country girl alone:

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