Will the CD desire ever evolve?

[Maiko Newhalf]

I was reading JamieG's post in the "Loved Ones" section (the following link) and it got me thinking.

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...-quot-question

Since that thread is closed I'd like to start another one here so I can hear your thoughts. I'm sure almost every TG have spent a lot of time thinking the eternal question of "where do I fall on the TG spectrum?". My understanding is that CDs generally like to appear feminine and switch back and forth between male and female roles but they don't want to be women forever. However, since people change and develop themselves, I'm wondering will the design for CDing ever elvolve? Is there a clear bondary between CD and TS? Or it's a boundary for each individual to draw?

I guess there's no scientific gauge to measure one's desire on something. But I heard CD people saying that they'd like to try to be a woman if the process is easy and reversable. While that's not possible, it sounds reasonable to me to gauge one's TG desire by how much price they are willing to pay to appear feminine. I tried it on myself and here's what I'm thinking now:

Being slim, shaving/epilating regularly, voice training, learning make-up etc.: certainly
Losing muscle to appear more feminine: maybe but rather reluctant
HRT: a remote possibility only if I'm single and understand the side effects
Breast Augmentation: No
SRS: No way

From that, I think I'm catergorized as a CD for sure. But the biggest uncertainty (also my biggest fear) is that I don't what's going to happen in the future. Will I get lost in the "pink fog"? Will I be pushing my limitations futher as I get better and more confortable with my CDing?

Any thoughts?

[Kate Simmons]

It really depends on the person. Some just enjoy the "rollar coaster" ride that seems to go on forever, others use CDing as a vehicle to begin an entirely different journey and all journeys are definately not the same.

[Maiko Newhalf]

Another way I can think of to gauge this is the "boy to girl ratio". I'd say my brain is 75% boy because I like cars, engineering, math, sci-fi, although I'm not a big sport fan. However personablity-wise, I'm 50-50 between boy and girl as a Gemini.

Does that makes me a more reliable CD?

[Cullaby]

I don't really consider myself very transgendered at all. I don't even like being referred to by feminine pronouns when dressed (although I am flattered if people use them. ) Honestly I can't see myself changing in the future in that regard. If anything, starting my crossdressing hobby made me feel like more of a 'real man' (whatever that means,) because it was a case of living my own life and being honest with myself instead of cowardly hiding away from desires that hurt nobody. I like to think thats what the stoic male role-model figures of yore would do in my situation anyway.

So theres no reason why a CD would inevitably head down the road to permanent womanhood.

Obviously, this is just me and my particularly weird brain's rationalisations talking and everyone is different.

[Karren H]

Personally I don not think about where I fit in at all... Or why... Or what my label is... Seems like wasted energy because if I did know where I fit in or why, it wouldn't change a thing in my life going forward... I would still love to do what I have to do... I'd rather be doing something else than spending time pursuing answers to questions that don't have any material effect on me. ... And as I get older... Time becomes more valuable to me..

Ohh and the time I do have I'd rather be playing more ice hockey!! Less thinking... More hitting!! Lol.

[Stephanie Miller]

I personally don't think it's just the uncertainty of it all. Although the future does indeed play a part. There are, to me, many other factors than just pigeonholing oneself as a CD's, TS's etc.. Sure, there are those that confront, or are aware of, their feeling and or mindsets early on. There are some of us that just didn't come to terms with ourselves until too much water had already crossed under the bridge. (Everyone determines their own amount of water.)
There are some that feel the safety, feelings or dynamic family structure is such that they stay in CD mode rather than fully transition. They wear female attire or change their body as much as possible, while still staying below their self imposed radar. It's not that they aren't TS. There are others that have fully transitioned and feel they made a grave error and truly are just CD's. Back to as much of a male mode as is possible they go.
I think I understand what your question is eluding to, and if I'm correct then - no, there will never be a clear and precise delineation. But I do think there is a definite delineation between physical CD, TS vs. mental CD, TS. At least in my mind.

[Jane G]

Sea, just take it day by day and enjoy your life and whatever it throws at you. Unless you feel the need to transition then there is no need to have a long term plan. More important to plan stuff like a good solid pension. Now I sound realy old.

[Rianna Humble]

But the biggest uncertainty (also my biggest fear) is that I don't what's going to happen in the future. Will I get lost in the "pink fog"? Will I be pushing my limitations futher as I get better and more confortable with my CDing?

Someone who doesn't know in advance with absolute certainty what will happen every second of the rest of their life!

Unfortunately, neither do the rest of us either. Will you get lost in The Pink Fog? Perhaps, but then again, perhaps you will remember to take your moral compass with you into the fog.

Is there a clear boundary between CD and TS? Or it's a boundary for each individual to draw?

I believe that there is a clear boundary, but that some people wander over it and some cannot bring themselves to admit that they belong on the other side. For over 4 decades I was in that last group. I have known since I was a child that I am not male despite what my anatomy might suggest, yet until less than 2 years ago, I could not accept that that meant I need to transition so I told myself that I was just "a bloke in a skirt", your common or garden variety of CD. I was only lying to myself because even as I said it, I knew that it was not true.

Cullaby, rightly said

there's no reason why a CD would inevitably head down the road to permanent womanhood.

Stephanie has posited that there are some CD's who go too far then regret it when it is too late, and I am sure that during my life time, there will have been one or two. Fortunately the Standards of Care for transgender patients are designed to let someone find out whether they are ready and able to live the rest of their life as the opposite gender to their natal sex and they usually work remarkably well.

You already seem to know that you are not TS, so why not relax and enjoy your cross-dressing and find out where your journey will take you?

[sissystephanie]

As I have said before, I have been a crossdresser longer than many of you have been alive. I wiil say that I have only seen one evolvement in crossdressing in all that time. Yes, there has been some changes in definitions used in describing crossdressing, but mostly by people who don't really know what they are talking about.

The evolvement that I am talking about is the fashions that we, as CD's, can now wear!! When I started dressing fully enfemme, back in the very late 1940's, there was not much fashion available. At least not me!! Nowadays I can buy almost anything I want to wear, that is if I can afford it!! Probably not the right evolvement, but it works for me!!

[sallyissuper]

I'm a CD, but have wondered what it would be like to be a young real genetic woman for 30 days and go back. But that just would not happen.

[Maiko Newhalf]

This thread is mainly inspired by Jamie's post on the "Do you want to transistion?" question. The question doesn't really bother me that much. But if the questions is from my SO, you see, when she ask this what she's looking for is reassurance in my opinion. Well, I'm truly not sure that I can give an honest answer that's better then Jamie's. That's kind of what bothers me. I do like Stephanie's point though:

There are some that feel the safety, feelings or dynamic family structure is such that they stay in CD mode rather than fully transition. They wear female attire or change their body as much as possible, while still staying below their self imposed radar.

[5150 Girl]

I don't know if this ansers the question or not, but, If I could take a pill, and wake up in the a full fledge woman, and the process were irreversable, Yes I would definately do it! I despise men from the floor up!

[Nikki A.]

If you continue dressing you will of course become more comfortable with it. And yes you will cross boundaries that you now say you won't. That being said, only you can decide how far you want or need to go.
Ten years ago I would never have considered going out dressed. Now I do it on an almost weekly basis and not just TG friendly places. However this is as far as I think I want to go, but down the road I may draw another line in the sand.

[Fab Karen]

The answer is : not necessarily. Over time, SOME Cd's may realize that actually they have TS feelings and want to go part or all of the way to their body meeting how they feel inside. There is no unified state of being either a CD or even TS. People are individuals.

[PretzelGirl]

I agree with Karen. I think that finding ourselves is an ongoing process. It is that way for everything in our lives, so why wouldn't it be true for something like this which can be confusing and where it can sometimes be hard to come to terms with portions of it.

[KrystalA]

If the processes of actually becoming female were 'easy and reversible' I'd be the first in line to have it done.

[Danni Renee]

Sea, I understand your feelings on this, especially when it involves your SO. My SO is very supportive and I have told her everything. She knows that if I had my way I would be a woman. That is not to say I will transition - there is more to it then that. As I told her in my case, no surgery or drugs can change what my DNA is no matter how wrong it feels in my heart. Fortunately she is very understanding and is working with me as I go through this process of discovering myself.

When I first came out to her, I thought I was just a CD. As I have read and researched and talked and finally became honest with myself I know there is much more to it then that. I would not say I got lost in the pink fog as much as I stopped repressing myself and finally listened to what my mind and heart were telling me. I did not evolve but I started to understand.

November I was in the closet
December I came out to my SO and said all I would ever do is dress in private
January I shaved all my body hair
February I pierced my navel
March I joined the forum and finally found I am not alone
April I went to the movies wearing almost all female clothes; redecorated my bedroom in pink
May I dedicated half my closet and dresser to female clothes (instead of hiding them in boxes)

I consider all of this part of the journey. I certainly am pushing my limits (or is it exploring the new me) and the more I push the more comfortable I become.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

The short answer is definitely maybe

In my experience, one of the most difficult part of cd's and relationships, is that your internal sense of yourself is likely to change over time. My transition was delayed by many years of self dialogue that was an out and out lie..

This tuesday I am going to dinner with a dear friend that is in her 40's, crossdressed for her whole life, identified as a crossdresser and now wants to talk to me about the idea of transition and finding the right therapist ...she says she had a realization that hit her after years of denial (which sounded very similar to my experience)..

Another friend has gone from the closet, to casual weekend party dressing to coming home, shaving, and living the night as "herself", and the relationship with her wife is very strained now..i wonder if i'm going to get another request to discuss things..

my view is skewed because of my own nature, but i have seen it over and over again.

[Maiko Newhalf]

What a journey! It's so nice that your SO is understanding.

November I was in the closet
December I came out to my SO and said all I would ever do is dress in private
January I shaved all my body hair
February I pierced my navel
March I joined the forum and finally found I am not alone
April I went to the movies wearing almost all female clothes; redecorated my bedroom in pink
May I dedicated half my closet and dresser to female clothes (instead of hiding them in boxes)

[Gillian Gigs]

I see it like a pendulum on a clock. Sometimes it is on the left side, sometimes it is on the right side. Everyone has to find the comfort zone, and get the most out of it. I do not think that anyone is 100% male or female, many choose to suppress one of the sides. I think that is why some men ae so homophobic, they are trying to suppress something that they do not understand and it scares them.

[Maiko Newhalf]

I'm wondering if a professional psychiatrist is helpful in this case. I just came out of closet recently and havn't given my desire and identity enough thought. If I'm more than a CD, I'd like to know understand it as soon as possible, although I really don't know what to do...

Should despising one's male body be the necessary condition of being a TS? I remember at very young age (pre-puberty) ocassionally wondering whether I was born as a female and somehow get transitioned to a male though... It's not a constant battle in my head or something, just kind of a curious thought.

my view is skewed because of my own nature, but i have seen it over and over again.

It's true, Gillian. My wife and I talked about it. Interestingly I always find her personality being more male than female, which she agrees too. Well, does that make us gay couple essentially? LOL.

It seems to me that a lots of people's personality is more like their opposite sex but they never question their identities.

I do not think that anyone is 100% male or female, many choose to suppress one of the sides.

[Fab Karen]

Should despising one's male body be the necessary condition of being a TS?

Not all TS people get SRS, even if they can afford it.

[t-girlxsophie]

Looks like I am in the minority here.I have travelled a long way from the early years,and I have evolved as much as I am going to I am happy with my level of dressing and where I fit in,(and about who I am),with absolutely no desire to go down the route of Transitioning.My wife and I have had that discussion.I admire those that do take that Journey,but Im happy with my lot

Sophie

[Sara82]

I feel I'm in the same boat as you Sea. While I don't despise my male body(in fact i love my body and my androgynous features), however I would give anything to spend the majority of my time presenting female, if I could get overall acceptance from friends, family, co-workers, and society in general. So the only thing holding me back is societal constraints. I guess the how strong the desire to cross that gender line, and how much stress, anxiety, depression,etc, it might cause someone, is what separates those who transition and those who don't.

While my goal has always been to feminize my body as much as possible, I still have to put up some type of male facade to avoid fear of rejection. (sometimes consciously an effort to fit in). What scares me is that this is not a healthy way to live one's live, and at some point this will all come crashing down. Will I evolve at this point? Probably.. The outcome?? too hard to tell..

What I have a hard time processing in my own head: "Is this a selfish addiction, or am I truly discovering myself and setting myself free to live a happier life". I know I'm not very happy now, but even if I was single and had all the freedom I wanted, would I still take that step and live as a woman? I certainly fantasize about it, i think about running away to another city, where no one knows me, and living as saya. Fear of being alone and no one to accept me are things that hold me back.

I dont care for labels either, but I dont think despising one's body is a necessary condition to transition to the opposite gender.

[Tina B.]

We are all different of course, I started dressing over 60 years ago, and after I retired I find myself wanting to dress more and more all of the time, but I still know who I am, and what I am, and that's just a dude in a dress, I've never given serious thought to changing sides, sure a fleeting thought, but that's all. I would have been happy born as a girl, I would have been happy as a guy, with no thoughts of crossdressing, but that's just not who I am. I'm a guy that has a over whelming need to wear female clothing, if I don't give in to that need I find myself to be a very miserable person, and depressed, angry and mean, I just don't like him. wearing womens clothes, wigs and make up make me feel whole, but after a week or so, I'm ready to grab a pair of jeans, and a white tee shirt, and throw away the razor and go caveman for a while. It's always been that way. So after 60 years I've always known what I am, and nothing has really changed all that much except I dress more often than when I was young and busy, and I have a lot mpre clothes now.
Tina B.