I've done a lot of thinking about this recently. Gays, lesbians, and bisexuals are all terms that deal with sexual preference whereas transgender has nothing to do with sexual preference. I can see why we have have been lumped in because it is an alternative lifestyle but I think thats why so many people naturally assume we are gay. If GLB has homosexual activity involved, then T must also. I think the term is working against us but I don't see any way to change it.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I think being included under that umbrella does more of a service than disservice. The service is that it makes us part of a larger group that lobbies in the area of human rights for all of us. I personally feel that we owe a debt of gratitude to the gay and lesbian activists who broke ground over the past 40+ years which makes equality attainable for ALL of us. If you are concerned that you may be thought of as gay or lesbian by association, I don't know what to tell you.
[SIZE="3"]Leslie[/SIZE]
"In these shoes?"
I may be new to the scene, but I'd have to say I don't want to be lumped into that group just based on being a transvestite. However, as a bisexual, LGB works for me. Trans means ascending boundaries or expectations. It's a very gray area for a lot of us.
That's like lumping all gay men sexually with straight men, to me. LGBT assumes too much on the T side. I feel like I've been swept up onto a bandwagon when people use the term.
Then again, the whole idea of LGBT is a gray area, so please take what I say with a grain of salt.
When the spectum of GLBT or LGBT becomes something like LGBTGQILMNOXYXZ12345 is when it get out of hand, methinks.
Last edited by NathalieX66; 06-19-2011 at 10:43 PM.
as far as it goes, the LGB folks are good friends and supporters of our issues, at least up until it harms them...i can't blame a political ally for putting themselves first..it's just the way of the world..if not LGB, then who?
unfortunately for us, the number of T's in the world is so small that we need all the help we can get..plus most of us are in the closet anyway..
recently i was infuriated at my exboss who came out of the closet at the very end of his career...he was lauded for his "courage" and he and his partner are the toast of the town...me? i was forced out in a restructuring.. afterwards he commented about how we shared our experience and it just really pissed me off..
I was at the philly pride parade a week ago, and i didn't see one booth that was only trans/cd related.. but i saw lots of drag queens running around in pantyhose and 90 degree heat, sweating so bad they couldn't touch their own face..
As a cross-dresser who is strictly heterosexual I really don't feel comfortable lumped in with GLBT. GLBT deals with sexuality, sexual orientation. Even though my city and state is supportive of laws that prohibit discrimination in employment and housing for the GLBT group AND cross-dressers, I still do not see any flurry of cross-dressing activity around town. Most of the GLBT folks appear to keep their sexuality private. I do not see how in the world a confirmed cross-dresser can assert his legal rights without stirring the pot in the community. I know of gay or lesbian teachers and nobody cares or even knows. But, I've never seen a cross-dresser in school at any level. I really think cross-dressers are a separate and distinct minority group.
always better to have people who are willing to keep you and help support you than to cut the cord and drift alone. Consider that 90% (a fact that I made up just now) of the CD's here will never see sunshine and will always cower in the closet, do you think that having a "T" group by itself will ever get any attention?
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Why would you want to change the term anyway? Trans rights are decades behind gay rights and if we were to foolishly shun the rest of the GLB* community then we'd be left in the dust. I can tell you with a great degree of confidence that transpeople are going to be a lot more reluctant to show up and speak up for their rights without having the support of our GLB* friends. Here in the Bay Area we have a yearly Transgender March (this coming Friday) but that's only happened because of critical mass acheived through years of working with the rest of our GLB* friends and supporters. What does your local trans community do for itself?Originally Posted by JamieTG
Personally, I think these Trans v. Gay threads are born out of homophobia, like somehow it is less ok to be gay than for a straight man to wear a dress. The falacy is in the comparison - there is nothing wrong with EITHER.
See above.
So what if GLB* deals with sexuality? Does that somehow make them inferior or superior? NO. We all just want to be free of persecution and discrimination based upon who we are. In other words we want life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.
If you're not happy with your status as a crossdresser in the community, feel free to speak up and march for your own rights. Little things do matter and one person can make a difference, but it's a lot harder to do it alone then with those GLB* friends who would happy stand with you.
Two of the recurring themes on this board are 1) Gays fought for their rights and now “society” adores them and throws rose petals at their feet as they walk by while crossdressers are hunted and despised. 2) Crossdressers would be better off if people didn't automatically assume they were gay. Which is it?
just to play devils advocate....there are also people within the gay community who dont like being lumped in with us as well. personally it is a none issue to me. however....i see both sides clearly.
I never really cared for labels of any kind. I prefer to call a person by name, end of story.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
You tell 'em Rachel! (girl I live right down the road from you in Concord)
This has always been a sensitive topic for me and what I'm about to say isn't gonna make me friends on either side but here we go;
I am indeed a TS woman who is currently walking the long walk of transition, BUT honestly I would identify as queer before TS. Right now I look like something in between male and female with my long hair and earrings and femmy clothes. Some people call me ma'am, some call me sir and some aren't really sure, and I'm perfectly happy that way, for now at least. Obviously, the dream is to eventually go stealth but since I started so damn late I may as well learn how to be happy as someone who will, in all likelihood always be recognized as a tranny. I have to admit I am really enjoying the freedom of being "out" and I absolutely love turning the heads of straight guys who can't help but check out my body before they realize that I'm not a real girl. It's delicious ;-)
I owe this freedom to my homosexual brothers and sisters who endured horrible civil rights abuses for decades. I am free to be me because of their fight to be free.
So while I'm in the midst of my transition, I have no problem being a queer ambassador and hopefully changing the attitudes about gender flexible people one new person at a time. I never get angry when people stare anymore, I smile and wave say "Hi!".
I happen to be attracted to men, in fact I'm a sucker for a big strong guy that adores me, but I can guarantee that I wouldn't be any different if I was into women. In fact I get more attention from women now then I ever did when I was trying so hard to be a straight man.
Is GLBT a disservice? Hell no, I'm thankful everyday that we get to ride on their coattails.
Whereas I agree with Rachel and Lorileah and others who astutely point out that there is power in numbers, I honestly have nothing in common with the LGB part of the spectrum. "T" is something completely different from the others grouped under this umbrella, and it does indeed lead to the erroneous, but common assumption that we are all gay.
Any money found in the laundry is MINE!
"This is no social crisis....this is me having fun!"
www.flickr.com/photos/tgmarla/
How is being part of LGB working against the transgender community? Because people might assume that your gay?
From a political / human rights standpoint the lgb would do much better without us "T's" and our silly needs. The "T" is not going to get very far on it's own, and once we are safely distanced from the LGB we can divid the TG's, CD's, TS's, Gender Queers, Gender Benders, and Androgyne people into all there own separate little groups and make our voice weaker still. Maybe we can get back to the days when it was illegal to wear to many clothing items of the opposite sex - I'm sure there are lots of people out there would like that.
I love that we are part of the LGBT conglomerate. It helps all of us and there is definitely strength in numbers. A lot of the current local, State and Federal regulations that are starting to protect us T's is being added on to existing civil rights laws and regulations for our LGB brothers and sisters. They broke the ground and now we get to plant in their fields. We are such a scattered group with very little public unity that the LGBT designations helps us with a unified voice.
(Rachel and BadTranny we live so close together that we have to be careful throwing rocks as we might hit one another!)
I personally think both themes are misconceptions.
This is very true. The gay community often struggles with how they are represented. It's not just a two way street, it's more like a thousand-level freeway interchange.
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Glad for the assent on the first point. I'm not sure why we need to worry about this erroneous assumption because I can't imagine that it matters in any way, shape, or form unless there is something wrong with being gay....which there's not. Our friends and supporters are likely to know the difference anyway and most of the ignorant ones wouldn't give an damn.
Yep, united we stand, divided we fall. Those who stand organized and opposed to GLBTs love nothing more than to see us arguing amongst ourselves. It makes their jobs easier.
We owe a debt of gratitude to every civil rights movement that came before us and helped pave the way, whether they support us or not. It's easier to walk in someone else's steps than to blaze your own trail.
(I'll try not to throw too many rocks at my neighbors...perhaps a water balloon)
It makes perfect sense in my mind why we are "lumped" into the LGBT category. All those letters represent something that is beyond the accepted confines of "normal" behavior.
This shouldn't be a newsflash to anyone, but if you are a guy wearing a dress, the average person that knows nothing of transgendered people, is GOING to see you as gay. That will be the case regardless of what group we are "lumped" into.
Me personally, think it is better to have allies that allow us to tag along with them, (especially when it comes to politics and laws,) than to go it by ourselves. Even more so because, lets face it, the vast majority of us hide away from society as it is.
Last edited by JulieK1980; 06-19-2011 at 06:50 PM.
I guess it doesn't really matter if I get lumped into the social stigma attached to "gay", it's pretty much the same stigma as "transvestite" in our society. After reading all the posts, the lumping doesn't seem so bad. I guess some of us are afraid of extra labels, trans or not. America especially is a very sexually restrictive society, so anyone who does anything outside the acceptable hetero norms is pretty much screwed in many social situations. I mean, look at our society; we use "gay" to express sentiments that 10 years ago would have been expressed by "lame", "awkward" or "stupid" or even "vaguely unimpressive". I can see why some people don't want that extra label tacked on... eh.
We is what we is.
The LBGT movement has a long history in the US and the T has been included from the start.
The Stonewall Riots are often cited as the start of the movement.
There were many people who associated with the T involved in that riot.
The account on the Stonewall Inns webpage and many other accounts have a 17 year old crossdresser throwing the first punch at the police.
From what Ive read; when the police raided the bar the T's couldn't hide.
If you were arrested wearing a dress and makeup it was a slam dunk in court.
From what I have read many of the LGB people could have simply walked away and blended into a growing crowd
They chose to support the T that night.
That was in 1969 and they still support the T today.
That's pretty good company to be in.
“If we do not hang together, we shall surely hang separately.” [Benjamin Franklin]
I'm not gay, but that doesn't mean I cannot support their goals as they support mine. Many of the laws enacted primarily to protect gays also protect me. I see no conflict between the gay and TG agendas at all which keeps the alliance very workable.
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
it's a lot better then being called a f@#^ot
:P
hahah too bad i'm hotter then anything they've ever shagged (O'snap)
Maybe we should align with illegal aliens? Or bank robbers?
This is sadly the major paradox...!
Kaz xx
__________________________________________________ ____________
This Woman Within is Flying without Wings
It appeared to me in reading the replies that those who don't like the alliance site societal and their own flawed perceptions and are just being biased. LGBT is a powerful organization out there doing what they do for our rights and freedoms, this isn't a popularity contest folks.
Nope. Nothing wrong with people assuming we're gay. If you consider "gay" to be a bad thing then maybe you haven't fully learned from your experiences as a crossdresser.
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