Is the term GLBT a disservice to us?

[Kathryn Philips]

First of all I would like to say that it is because of threads like this one that I find this forum is such a great place.

I think we should be grateful to the LBG movement for opening the way for us even though we trail anywhere between 10 and 15 years in the general level of acceptance. I my particular case if my wife were to accept LBG people, then she might accept me. She is one of those who find it impossible to comprehend that crossdressing and sexual orientation are unrelated.

[Kittykitty]

I'll say the same thing I tell the utilities companies when they want ALL my info just to pay a bill... anyone who wants to fight FOR me or pay my bills is welcome to.

God bless any activist fighting for freedom. .

[Schatten Lupus]

As other pointed out, it's better to have a larger group that helps support us, because we would probably be years behind if we didn't have the full support. We both work towards equality and fair treatment, and the Stonewall incident that launched the "gay rights" partly happened because of people who fall under the T part of the label. While we may have fallen behind in social acceptance, the movement was started by both groups supporting eachother, so why shouldn't we be under the same banner?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Nope. Nothing wrong with people assuming we're gay. If you consider "gay" to be a bad thing then maybe you haven't fully learned from your experiences as a crossdresser.

exactly.. it's amazing how many guys I've met in my cd days that said "I'm not gay!!"... It's amazing how many coming out posts here that include "I'm not gay"... Those gays must be terrible people..gosh forbid we get hooked up with them..

i mentioned it earlier..it's not a perfect coupling...and there are more gay people that would cross the T off LGBT than there are T people in total..so we can stomp our feet all we want, it doesn't matter...

[Starling]

To be fair, a lot of the "I'm not gay" stuff is about reassuring our shook-up hetero mate that we want to continue having sex--and perhaps even babies--with her. But outside of that context, it may well be expressing the homophobia that still lurks in the dark corners of our minds.

Lallie

[erickka]

I agree with Ms Foxx on this one. There IS strength in numbers, and I'll bet there are lots more of the LBG than there are the T in this grouping of people, so count me in with the larger more "powerful" voices.

[cd_in_de]

I am not gay, but I will not turn down the support of the LGBT community. They are the only ones willing to support us. They do not judge us, so we should not be judgmental in turning down their support. I am supportive of the LGBT community because they are supportive of us.

[Tina B.]

How can being part of LGBTQ be a bad thing for us, in this society Gays have a higher standing than we do, so being associated with them has to lift us up, at least it does politically. Living in the Bay Area at the time, I remember ACT UP, and some of the things they where doing, that helped bring those walls down, I still think we owe them a lot, and I believe the best way to support that is to be proud to be a member of the LGBT community.
Tina B.

[Fionax]

However the attitudes of main stream society view the GLB part, the T will always be separate. None of the GLB section exist in isolation: there is always a second half, it takes two to tango; whereas the greater majority of the rest of us are solitary. However much we may dream of passing and no matter how brave we are, we are mostly in the closet and that is how it will remain, even if definitive internationally acclaimed research proved that absolutely none of us are gay. The passing of laws to make employers accept crossdressing has not made a drop of difference in the way the greater public think about us and hanging on to the coat tails of the GLB group will change nothing. In fact being associated with it will reinforce the mind set of the mass of people that we are a group apart from them. Might not changing tack completely and link with civil war enactment groups to show that we are only dressing to play a part and are otherwise just ordinary folk? Maybe leaving love and sex way behind might flip the coin.

[Iskandra]

Words (including abreviations) have no power other than that which mere mortal places on those words!
The acceptance (mostly) of the LGB mob was/is a power struggle, not without it's victims..
I have been to a few mardi gras, and while i can see people celebrating life, and it's a gay old time! (scuse the pun) I have issues with it being about sexual preference!
Do it, be it, but don't flaunt it! Thats my thinking.. And there in lies the difference.. Many CD's would be happy to pass, blend in.. Mardi gras etc, is all about in your face Jimmybob! Though that does seem to be more a male gay thing than a (sub)culture thing!
Men seem to want or need acceptance for being different way more than women... probably a society thing where a woman can get away with wearing mens clothes or acting male but the reverse does not apply..
Times have indeed changed, yes CD's were left behind.. Because we look up to the LGB mob and think that it's the way to go to be accepted..
But no girls, It is time to think like women, be like women and be as subtle as they are! Frontal assault no longer works, guerilla tactics.. That might just do the trick!

A little bangle, or wearing a small token that is seen as female, and when questioned about it simply say, oh, it's becoming fashionable! (or such)
This both removes the power of accepted stigma and eases ppl into accepting more.. (baby steps)
Think of it as a child learns letters before words, words before sentences.. Soon they learn to read..

"Dont show me a seed and tell me it's a rose, but let me see it grow and blossom and we will enjoy it's fragrance together!"

Any group that stands for equality and acceptance is not a disservice to anything..

[t-girlxsophie]

I owe a debt to the LGBT Community,I started my journey at support group meeting held in local LGBT centre,and through the years have made a good few friends from all sections of the community,and took part in a lot of initiatives.Was there universal acceptance of us T folk,no but It's unlikely your gonna have every single person singing from the same Hymn Sheet.It's unlikely we could make the strides our Community has though,without the support from LGBT

Sophie

[Emily Ann Brown]

My girlfriend says YOUR work probably thinks you are gay..don't that bother you.." I say they can't fire me for being GAY!" HAHAHAHAHA..whatever.


Em

[Lorileah]

The acceptance (mostly) of the LGB mob was/is a power struggle, not without it's victims..
I have been to a few mardi gras, and while i can see people celebrating life, and it's a gay old time! (scuse the pun) I have issues with it being about sexual preference!
Do it, be it, but don't flaunt it! Thats my thinking.. And there in lies the difference.. Many CD's would be happy to pass, blend in.. Mardi gras etc, is all about in your face Jimmybob! Though that does seem to be more a male gay thing than a (sub)culture thing!

OK not getting this. If you mean Pride events, I can understand but Mardi Gras is a religious thing. It is an example of a "season of License". It is an extension of a last hurrah or an antithesis of a coming event where one must follow stringent rules. And if you are limiting this to males as in Pride, you missed on heck of a party here in Denver with more half clad and almost unclad females than males.

The "in your face part" is common in upheaval and may be an integral part of revolution and change. Very little changes with not fighting for what you want. In the case of these boards, when a majority are happy to hide in a closet and not force an issue like being able to express themselves by wearing or acting as they wish them social change will never occur. TG's will not get the freedom they harp about here until they work towards that freedom. Passing in public may be a holy grail but as noted very few ever will. So just being assimilated into the culture is a "no go" in our case. Seasons of License may be loud and raucous but they get one thing done, they get noticed.

Men seem to want or need acceptance for being different way more than women... probably a society thing where a woman can get away with wearing mens clothes or acting male but the reverse does not apply..

Don't even go there. It shows a complete lack of understanding about how all that came about from a repressed section of society (women) that stood up and demanded that they get certain rights. Go back 60 years and see how women in slacks were thought of.

But no girls, It is time to think like women, be like women and be as subtle as they are! Frontal assault no longer works, guerilla tactics.. That might just do the trick!

A little bangle, or wearing a small token that is seen as female, and when questioned about it simply say, oh, it's becoming fashionable! (or such)
This both removes the power of accepted stigma and eases ppl into accepting more.. (baby steps)
Think of it as a child learns letters before words, words before sentences.. Soon they learn to read..

Interesting comment. The African Americans tried that for 100 years. Blend in, act white, be like the whites, that will get you jobs, and acceptance... Maybe over decades and more likely centuries it might. The status quo won't change because the quo when in power tends to want to keep that power. I don't know about you but having my grand children get the acceptance doesn't make my life any better (selfish ain't I?). Name one passive change in recent memory that was brought about by just letting it be. Reformation? There were battles between the Catholics and Protestants. Civil rights (what few are in force and many are still being fought for)? Women's rights (you missed the bra burnings the marches, the boycotts)? Many are still in effect in many parts of the world. Crawl if you want, I am gong to run full force. What do we want? Equality! When do we want it? Uh...maybe when you get around to it, no hurry, I don't want to rock the boat and make you upset, I am fine in my hiding place.

"Dont show me a seed and tell me it's a rose, but let me see it grow and blossom and we will enjoy it's fragrance together!"

This can be interpreted differently. You have to plant the seed. You have to nurture the growing plant. Before you can smell the rose you will prick your finger several times. If you let the plant fend for itself, you won't get to see the blossom.

Any group that stands for equality and acceptance is not a disservice to anything..

I totally agree.

Might not changing tack completely and link with civil war enactment groups to show that we are only dressing to play a part and are otherwise just ordinary folk? Maybe leaving love and sex way behind might flip the coin.

They get so many people to come and watch them. I think too many here focus on the sexual part of the LGB movement. It wasn't (isn't) about who schtups who. They could do that on the sly anyway. It is about being able to be with the person you want to be with. It is about being able to live your life as you should be able to. The focus on sexuality is mostly the mainstream media. Sex sells.

The TG community keeps tripping over this whole issue. It will be 42 years since Stonewall. It was mostly Drag Queens who were the center of that. We should be proud of that part. The LGBT community took us in even though as has pointed out over and over, we weren't about the sexuality. That was not a bad association for usfor the early part. But as is also stated here over and over and over, we are not gay. So what has happened? You go to a gay bar and although you will be accepted there, you are not part of that scene. You are in reality treated as a little sibling. They (and I don't even have a clue why Bisexuals are even still included because they really have not bee discriminated against) don't see the TG community as an asset. Why? Because the majority of TG's can go away and not be seen. You can have a job, a family, hold places esteem, because you prefer to hide in plain sight. No one says you can't have a house. The majority don't even support the community which has dragged us along for over 40 years. What is the first thing you say when someone outs you. You pull the Larry Craig line "I am NOT gay!"

Do we need "them". Yes we do. They make noise and we need noise to be noticed. Do they need us? Like a scuba diver needs an anchor.

[Gillian Gigs]

Some one once said, "my enemy's enemy is my friend". The problem being that as long as the enemy remains the same we all have the common goal of beating this "enemy". I am not sure that these "other communities" are interested in us other than adding to their numerical support. I am all for the rights and freedoms that we all need, but we will all get "tarred" with the same brush at the same time. Not knowing all of the aggenda's of some of these other groups, I am left to wonder if we are being helped or not.

[AKAMichelle]

I personally don't see that we get much benefit in that organization. We are added on as an after thought and are forgotten easily since most cd'ers who are part of the group are hidden. The ones who are out most of the time fit under the other letters of the organization better.

I guess this is what really disappoints me in the organization is that the hetero TG people are just not represented.

[JulieK1980]

I guess this is what really disappoints me in the organization is that the hetero TG people are just not represented.

Sadly, because they are fairly often vacant and unknown. Hard to fight for that which is not seen.

[Badtranny]

I guess this is what really disappoints me in the organization is that the hetero TG people are just not represented.

Well, that's our own fault then isn't it?

Unfortunately, I'm no help to you because even though I'm "out", I'm a bona fide fairy, but there ARE some straight CD's out there fighting the good fight. Allie SF and Melissa Rose come to mind immediately as a couple of CD gals who like gals (NOT lesbians!) who are out and about all over the place. There also both very friendly and approachable and generally just fantastic ambassadors for the hetero CD crowd.

All you need is a few million more just like them. ;-)

[Rianna Humble]

I honestly have nothing in common with the LGB part of the spectrum.

I don't understand. Does this mean that you don't consider yourself human? Or that you don't consider Human Rights to be important? Or does it mean something else?

My old boss in Paris used to say that we are all bipeds and our lot on this earth is to do the best that we can. I think that I agree with his sentiment.

It is ironic that at the start of the LGB human rights movement, there were trans folk on the front lines because they recognised how important human rights for all are, yet now we have trans folk who don't want the support that the LGB human rights activists are offering to us.

As a gay student put it in a meeting to discuss LGB and T issues "Trans people are suffering the same sort of thing that the LGB community suffered 30 and 40 years ago. We have a duty to stand with them just as they stood with us".

I actually feel sorry for someone who would rather forgo that kind of support than have anyone question their sexuality.

I guess this is what really disappoints me in the organization is that the hetero TG people are just not represented.

I sort of agree with you if I reword it slightly. What disappoints me is how few hetero transgender people are willing to get involved.

There are cross-dressers of all kinds and transsexuals at various stages in the support group I attend, but I can probably count on one finger how many members of the group will take part in any human rights demonstration.

[AllieSF]

Well stated Rhianna. When we stand as the T, we in effect are standing for all. We are lucky to be included in this community.

[Eryn]

I personally don't see that we get much benefit in that organization. We are added on as an after thought and are forgotten easily since most cd'ers who are part of the group are hidden. The ones who are out most of the time fit under the other letters of the organization better.

I guess this is what really disappoints me in the organization is that the hetero TG people are just not represented.

I can think of a huge benefit I get from that organization. In my state "T" is included in the non-discrimination statute that was originally intended to protect gays. "T" was probably included more for the benefit of TS individuals, but the umbrella covers straight CDers just fine. I don't intend to test the effectiveness of the statutes, but having the safety net is a definite benefit.

[Fab Karen]

NO, that doesn't cause people to think that about TG people. If you're not gay & someone polite thinks you might be, you just smile & say,"no, I'm only into women" & go on your way. If it bothers you deeply, you need to discuss it with a therapist.

"don't flaunt it"
Tell that to all the heterosexual couples you see in public just holding hands or kissing. It's about freedom & equality.


Men standing with women, LGB people standing with us, whites standing with black people, etc. United we stand, divided we fall. Our enemies WANT us divided.

[Melissa Rose]

Bigotry, hatred and discrimination hurts everyone in some form or another. JFK said "...when one man is enslaved, all are not free". I believe the sentiment applies here. I'm going to take a chance and say the T community probably benefits more from being included in LGBT than the LGB community benefits from including the T community. There is strength in numbers so every voice helps.

As long as someone views and treats me with humanly respect, they can think I'm gay, bi or straight. I've even been mistaken for a lesbian a few times. L, G, B and/or T is just a label and only defines a part of me. The thoughts and beliefs of others do not change who or what I am. It does not matter to me that LGB is sexual preference while T is gender preference. I'm grateful for the trails blazed and doors opened by others regardless of who they are. They made it possible for me to be as out in the mainstream as I am (which is a lot). I hope I leave a slightly clearer trail or door a little more open after I walk through it. One day I hope there is no need for a LGBT community - the day when each group becomes an accepted part of the mainstream and we all are part of the same community.

[Chickhe]

No, but I always thought it sounds like a sandwich. BLT...

[patti.jean]

Being Transgender and being part of the gay community is more about humanity then your sexuality. I know it is difficult for many of us and our families, who have never associated with the gay community, to embrace this. We may think being transgendered has enough stigma without mixing gay into it. The following are some points on how embracing the gay community has been beneficial for me.

Acceptance
Since the beginning when I started going out I have been going to gay bars and have always been accepted. Now gay bars are one of my venues of choice, not only for the acceptance but also socially as a place, where I have friends. Then there are many transgendered events hosted by the local gay bars, of course there are the drag shows, but there is also much more. In Western Michigan the Douglas Dunes Resort host one of the largest TG weekend events twice a year. The TG community is always welcomed at the Dunes but these weekends the emphasis is on the TG community. There is much more that I could go into but the gay community does accept us and is compassionate about TG equality. There are also other local bars that support the transgendered community with events.

Support
In Western Michigan, we have recently started a transgendered support group as part of The Network, a local GLBT organization. We started out small but at our last monthly meeting had a broad range of TG demographics represented. There were CDs just coming out, a 13 year old FTM with his mother and grandmother with him, and a broad spectrum of CDs. It was heartwarming to be able to answer so many questions at the meeting and the support has continued with exchanges of emails and follow up meetings. I have been part of this group for several months and it is great to see our vision fulfilled of lessening the pain for others that we have all experienced. What started out with just few people is growing and making a difference. This would never have happen without the support of the The Network and the gay community.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I really really find it hard to swallow the subtle homosexual (self?) hating that goes on in here..

BY FAR the LGB community embraces us more than the hetero community..its not perfect...we are the last letter in LGBT for sure..
But there is no Hetero/Straight/Trans community...there is no other community that allows a T stuck on the end..

Rianna I like what you said..
"I actually feel sorry for someone who would rather forgo that kind of support than have anyone question their sexuality."