Is the term GLBT a disservice to us?

[dawnmarrie1961]

No. That's just a label. Use it or don't use it. It's up to you. Personally I don't like labels. They are irritating. I usually cut them off clothing. Labels are always going to be there. It gives things and people a perceived value, clout, and makes them easy to identify or target them. Never blame the label makers for a bad product. Blame the consumer for buying into it in the first place.
It is far better to conduct yourself in an honorable manner, try to be an example to others, so that they might learn the truths about us that we are nothing to be fearful of. We simply want to live our lives the way we wish, as ourselves.

Be the example...not the problem.

[Shelly Preston]

I think the benefits of being part of a larger group has helped us as a community

Being transgender may not be based on sexuality but for the vast majority of the public we are percieved as being gay or bisexual. Most are not aware that sexuality and gender are separate issues

I would suggest as a group trying to fight for rights on our own would have been a lot more difficult. Even now with the aid of modern technology its still not easy to get support for our issues. I wonder how many would turn up at public meeting in support of fighting for trans issues. I suspect not too many due to the vast differences in our lifestyles and personal circumstances

We need all the support we can get and the GLB community understand diversity

I can understand those who dont like being linked to the GLB community but it easier and more productive for all of us to be linked to them.

[Violetgray]

This is by far the best posting on this subject. Once again Zinnia knocks it out of the park:

http://www.youtube.com/user/ZJemptv#p/u/42/YYbP0uko9dg

[Inna]

Wholy c...w! I see what you imply by The Best Posting on the subject but, for love of God, this girl does not breath, she must be an alien, lets banish her from LGBT cause we would need to add yet another letter, Oh my!

[NicoleScott]

Being transgender may not be based on sexuality but for the vast majority of the public we are percieved as being gay or bisexual. Most are not aware that sexuality and gender are separate issues.

How true. And this is a reason some people believe that T's don't need to be included with the GLB group. Continued association continues the misconception.

There's a lot of talk on the forum about "painting with a broad brush".
- cd's dress for sexual excitement. "Not ME! I'm a woman inside! Don't paint me with that broad brush!"
- but when one says: "public perception is that cd's are gay. I'm not gay, so don't paint me with that broad brush" then we hear "how dare you offend gays by saying you're not! Why not let pople think you are? It's no big deal!" Painting with a broad brush suddenly acceptable?
Is it asking too much to allow a hetero crossdresser to choose not to be considered gay? Don't give me the "ram it down our throats" argument. That's bull. Nobody's doing that. Simply "I'm not gay".
So there are good arguments favoring T exclusion from the GLB group, as the OP asked for opinions.
Violet, that video was a very compelling argument in favor of inclusion.

[Starling]

...When one uses a label on anything it identifies it as different. If one truly wants to be rid of bigotry...then get rid of labels...

Yours is an excellent statement of a post-millenial ideal, Sabrina, but facts on the ground are: we will be named by someone else if we do not name ourselves; there will be people who hate us and want to hurt us no matter what we are called.

Furthermore, we are a protected class (in most places) because we need protection.

Lallie

PS: The GLBT movement is a coalition of people with related, not identical, lifestyles. Gays are much more acceptable to the mainstream than Ts. We gain acceptance--and protection--from being associated with them.

[donnalee]

Well this is fascinating.

So the battle lines have been drawn separating two camps. On one side we have the LGBT crowd and on the other we have the T (we don't need no stinking LGB) camp. Apparently the dividing issue is loosely based on sexuality, and both sides seem to agree that the "T" part of LGBT is an issue of expression rather than sexual preference.

We have passionate people on both sides but my humble observation (ahem) is every time a wedge issue is being used to divide a community, the success of the division depends entirely on a misunderstanding of the the dang wedge issue. So as is almost always the case, we need to better define what the wedge is, and maybe take another look at what we think we agree on.

I submit that the "T" is in fact rooted in sexuality.

Let me explain. Every CD on this board would agree that the early days of cross dressing were literally sparkling with sexual energy right? There are many CDs on this very board that will openly admit to having sex while cross dressed or at least wanting to. There are just as many who admit that cross dressing does tend to rev the motor a bit. There are some CDs for whom their gender expression has become part of their lifestyle, but I'm convinced that for a large number of CDs, it's almost purely just a catalyst for a "good time" and then the clothes as well as the cross dresser are right back in the closet until nature calls again. If you will concede that the very act of gender expression can be fraught with sex and sexuality, I will concede that on the face of it, that alone doesn't prove my point.

Allow me to continue. Let's examine the "straight" male cross dresser. I presume that these are the people that make up the majority of the "T" (we don't need no stinking LGB) camp. This particular segment makes no secret or apologies for their attraction to the fairer sex. Some have said that they are so attracted to women that they want to "become" them. "And what is so wrong about that?" well let's consider that for a bit. If a straight man was to magically become a woman yet retain his former sexuality, then he would by definition be a lesbian. (a rather active one we could guess) Indeed many of these straight CDs have proudly proclaimed that they were lesbians in men's bodies. (loathsome as that may be)
So if we were to take away the advances of the GLB (it's a Wonderful Life style) then the straight married CD who took great pains to look as pretty and feminine as possible would of course be unable to show his wife any affection in public without offending quite a few people. Heaven forbid those people find out that the "dyke" is actually a man because any community that won't accept lesbians is likely to be openly hostile to a "freak" in pantyhose.

One more thing. If the "T" is supposed to represent the entire TG spectrum, how do you reconcile someone like me? (it always comes back to me doesn't it) If I weren't a TS, than I would definitely be gay. I like men. Big strong masculine men, but I digress. When my transition is complete I will resemble a woman who is in a relationship with a man. (fingers crossed) To the great unwashed I will appear to be straight, even if I still have my tiny pickle.

The straight male CD who is openly fraternizing with his female partner will appear to be homosexual and the admitted homosexual (me) will appear to be straight. Ironic isn't it?

So tell me again how the "T" is not in fact woven into the fabric of the LGBT?

Whew! I think this is the best thought out, most intelligent argument on the subject I've ever read. Remind me never to cross you, especially if it was off the cuff.
Violet, as much as I love and respect you and your posts (and I do), PLEASE! I would rather hear a cogent comment or a well turned phrase than be bludgeoned to death with verbosity. I had to stop from exhaustion halfway through that video. You're a comedian and a good one and I have great respect for your intelligence; I'm sure you know the effectiveness of one-liners.

[noeleena]

Hi,

I'v had to look at the same issues over here, tho in your county of the U S its been a bone of contenstion for those of us who dont fit in because we are intersexed,

when i was talking to one of your trans people what was said was we are not as accepted as i had first thought, So i said you mean to say because we are different we wont be accepted even in the G L B & may be T. nope.

Right , well it has happened to my friend who is intersex like me in another way, she was told in our lingo , bugger off & dont come back your not accepted here in this trans group ,

funny that as most were dress'ers, & i know most of them. so i said well that to me is a very hard hit below the belt,

So i then said would i be accepted in the U S , in her net work of trans friends & normal people who are not trans any thing , ...........right..... dont say intersex , any thing, got ya,
So even with in the trans community there is a cant accept difference of others,

For me im just a woman who's accepted as one .even tho im well known & so is my background its not an issue here or over the ditch in Austraila . any way i'v learnt quite a lot about people over the last 4 - 5 years on the forums & 14 years with people & a few groups, lots really.

Now most of my friends through the forums are dress'ers, they dont care im a intersexed woman at all. so theres a difference for my self ,

Just thought you'd like an other view of things,

Now you'r not going to hold that aganist this bloody kiwi are you, If you are going to throw those eggs at me at least send them by mail , he he.......oh sorry our planes are staying on the ground

...noeleena...