Why do you say that?Originally Posted by Fab Karen
Why do you say that?
Are all religious beliefs irrational, or just that one?
They can be and it's not unusual for them to be irrational. But that's not necessarily the case.
If it's against god's will, there wouldn't be any.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
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Karen,
I don't think that's necessarily true. A crude example might help. A father may have a beautiful daughter who is dating someone of ill repute. Now the father desire is that his daughter not date this person for her on good. However, in the larger sense, he might feel that it's better that his daughter learn from experience. So it could be that God let's us do things that he does not want us to do so that we can learn from our experience.
I'm not saying you have to believe that. I'm just saying that's a possible explanation and so what you said doesn't NECESSARILY hold.
I've got my mod hat on when I say that we were doing fine keeping religion out of this thread until about post #40. Let's get back to the discussion without it, shall we? Not everyone believes that God has a hand in this.
To those of you who do want to discuss the religious aspect, please do so via PM or start a new thread in the Religious Discussions forum. If you're not a member, you can join.
I don't want to close this thread but I will if the religious discussion continues here.
Reine
Sorry about that. Don't want to ruins someone's thread.
[QUOTE=RachelOKC;2525559]
I've never known a gay man who would hit on another man that he didn't believe to be gay or bi. Not that it doesn't happen, but most gay men are careful to try to read the situation and not cause conflict.
Just like a woman can turn down a man's advances, a man can do the same to another man. It doesn't have to be rude, hateful, or violent. Thanks, but no thanks. How hard is that, even for a fearful, ignorant person?
Many persons have an intense dislike of anybody violating their space and making unfounded assumptions about them. I do not have, nor ever had a dislike for gay men. I never had an opportunity of having a friend or co worker, who was "out." As a young child I did have the opportunity of fending off a male sexual pervert in a movie theater, while watching a movie with my older brother. As a young adult I did decline an invitation on the subway to have my penis sucked. I was dressed in a suit on the way to a job interview. My very pregnant wife had to tell a man that I was already obviously 'taken', when all we were doing was going to work on the subway. I had to try to catch a pervert, who decided my son, who was a minor at the time, was not available for a pickup, while at the mall shopping with his father and younger sister. And, we talk about why some people are homophobic? There was absolutely no reason for any of these men to make an assumption I or my son were interested in an encounter.
There is a time and place for everything. Most women I know do NOT want to be "hit on" unless they are in a "pick up" place.
Times have changed for the better. When persons have the ability to go to a club or environment where people with similar interests congregate without fear, then society has made progress.
As one who doesn't think that all homophobes are necessarily haters, and as one who believes it's not homophobic to state that I'm straight or not gay, I think your experience was more about unwanted advances than homosexuality or homophobia. Using the reasoning that unwanted advances of males to other males leads to homophobia, then most women would fear men (is there a term for that?).
Actually I it's not so unusual to see women be intimidated by men because of unwanted sexual advances. Perhaps it doesn't rise to the level of a phobia, but there is a certain level of fear there nonetheless. Come to think about it though there are some women that despise men to the level of a phobia and some of that MAY have had to do with some sort of situation they were in where there was some unwanted sexual advance. Then there is the term "playa hater" that is used frequently.
That said I agree, a homophobe is not necessarily a hater.
I just said that to provoke some deeper thought regarding your point about most women would fear men if unwanted sexual advances led to a phobia.
I think that the main point is whether a homophobe is a hater, disliker or just feels uncomfortable with gays and lets those reactions and feelings taint how they treat others and what signals they give off to others intentionally or not, does have negative impacts on society as a whole and parts of society like the LGBT spectrum that many of us here are a part of. In my opinion, as I understand the term homophobia, it is a negative connotation and it would be great that others at least tolerated us and all of our LGBT brethren instead of making sure that they keep themselves physical, mentally and by reference to themselves at more than an arms length from any of us and the terms associated with us. I understand all the reasons why they do not want that association, but to see members here go way out of their way to make that separation smacks clearly of homophobia, when most here are looking for toleration and unity. It seems like a lot here are still in their innocent youth and do not want to catch any of those unwanted cooties if they get too close.
I was just think about this some more while driving just a minute ago. I think part of the problem guys have is that you can be labeled as being gay simply by being seen talking to someone who is gay. I have never seen any research on it, but I am going to be bold and state that most women don't want a guy who is or even perceived as being gay. So when a guy is hit on by a gay man, I can see how that would make him uncomfortable. I remember at the job I was at before my current on this guy hit on me by slightly rubbing his hands on me and referring to me as darling. It made me a little uncomfortable but I really didn't think much of it the first time he did it. When he did it again, I got really angry and reacted very strongly. Part of what made me angry was that I did not want to be seen as being gay. Over and above that I didn't have the slightest bit of attraction. I said that to say I could see how having things like that happen to you over time could lead to some pretty hostile feelings towards gays in general.
In what you described in that last job, that was about a guy being a creep & touching you without permission. A creep is a creep whether gay or hetero, his being gay didn't make him a creep.
[SIZE="3"]Gender is a state of mind[/SIZE]
LGBTQ PRIDE
As of Oct. 5th, go here to see my pics:http://www.flickr.com/people/fab_karen/
A Yankee Doodle T-Girl
proud of my President
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