If you are clothed! Keeping the penis makes it harder for a woman to use changing rooms without dividers in some stores, showers in most exercise centres and when personal service is given in lingerie store (when the salesperson is in the changing room with the client helping out). Maybe some day, no one will care about genitals, but for now, they sure seem too.Originally Posted by Badtranny
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
Sorry Frances, but SRS or no SRS, there is no way that I would ever completely disrobe & expose my
genitalia in front of any strangers in some changing room in a store & like I said, having SRS would not
make me feel any better about that. Here in Australia we have private cubicles for changing in when
you are trying on clothes in a store. Anyway, how is this really another privilege of being a woman?
The fact is noone knows I am even pre-op unless I tell them - I am not defined as a woman by what is
between my legs, it is what is between my ears & what has this got to do with "What being a TS is NOT"?
Bree, I don't think anyone is really arguing here, people are just expressing conflicting opinions, but the
main thing is that most opinions don't really matter anyway, because the facts are already sitting there.
Last edited by Melody Moore; 07-04-2011 at 05:24 PM.
You really cannot think of any situation where you would disrobe in front of other women? I could have named a lot more situations. My SRS did not change much in the way I feel about myself, but it did make me feel a whole lot more legitimate in intimate women's spaces, like bathrooms, saunas, etc. You may feel different if and when you have it.
Last edited by Frances; 07-04-2011 at 05:38 PM.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
That seems like a vanishingly small number of moments in ones life Frances. And I'm not real sure how you guys do it up in Canada but you would NEVER walk into a store changing room in the USA that did not have individual stalls, sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen!
The rest of this is just me rabbling about things I've read here and not directed at anyone in particular. Frankly I am way to selfish to give two hoots what any of you girls or boys choose to do or not do. Though the rest of the "real world" might be walking around obsessing over what defines a boy or girl, and there may in fact be like 8 people who care what defines a TS, after all of the mental, emotional and physical turmoil that accepting myself and doing something about it has caused me I really just don't care what defines a boy, girl or a TS. Im interested in defining ME! It's important to me that I pass as a woman all the time, Why? not cause i care about changing rooms but because I care about my body matching my mind. it cause me to go into extreme depression when I see a male looking back at me in the mirror and that actually has very little to do with my dick. But since I do plan on getting SRS for aesthetic and sexual reasons ( i can't imagine why else it would matter) I sit to pee, I consider it practice. lol. I must confess I don't live in the real world though. Of course I have heard of this "real world" that all of the pontiffs have seen and are here to warn us Fuzzy Bunny, Butterfly land dwellers about, but it sounds like an awful place filled with flesh eating cisgendered zombis waiting to tear poor unsuspecting little transgirls like me limb from limb so they can eat our gender variant brains! So what do I know! I instead live on Earth where the variety of life is overwhelming and where the only constant is change. I know, I know living full time as a woman but still having a penis automatically distorts my view of the "REAL WORLD" so I will just shut up now and enjoy a tall glass of male privilege whilst I go out fully dressed as a female with my female voice probably not really passing. Sure is nice to still be one of the boys! Always was such a joy!
Last edited by Aprilrain; 07-04-2011 at 06:27 PM.
Yes tommorrow! Would I be eligible if I became a citizen of your province! seriously I will leave no stone
unturned to find a way to finance my surgeries. Are there no philanthropists to carry this cause!
Sorry for for the slight detour!
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
I am not sure why you and Melody are focusing so much on this example. I was thinking about a store that I heard about in New York actually. Underwear is still worn, of course, but the package may be visible.
How about a spa, or a gym, or a shelter for battered women? The setting does not matter. They are lots of places in life where a woman with a penis would not be welcomed and would be rejected from it (violently sometimes). Keeping the apendage does mean staying away a lot of intimate women's spaces... for now.
Last edited by Frances; 07-05-2011 at 06:48 AM.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
Frances, you are correct of course. There is no question that keeping my dangler would require discretion on my part in certain situations.
But like the adorable April and the delightful Melody have stated, it's not likely to happen very often.
Besides, what if I really really wanted it, but just couldn't afford it because I didn't make smart transition decisions in regard to my career? Would that make my life easier?
Only you can answer that question, but transition forced me to file for bankruptcy and it did make my life easier. Getting rid of the constant white noise in the back of my mind (24/7 torment about being the wrong gender) was worth loosing all of my money and family. It is that strong in some of us. The other option was suicide.
Last edited by Frances; 07-04-2011 at 06:43 PM.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
I'm sorry for your struggle sis, I do understand. I haven't considered suicide in many years but there wasn't a day during adolescence that I didn't wish I had the courage to do it.
I've already lost all of my family, and savings but I'll be damned if I'm gonna give up my career without a fight. :-)
Some of you may think I'm too cavalier, but that's your perception. There's a small percentage of people who knows what it's like to grow up a girly boy in a wholly un-accepting environment. It's not a fun life. A vocal group of T-girls thinks they own the struggle. They don't. I've been through it too, I have the stripes.
I've earned the right to make my own decisions. I've faced down the world and said take me or leave me and if I don't give a damn about the acceptance of everyone else, why would I be influenced by a few dinosaurs in the Trans community?
I'm here, I'm queer, get used to it.
(I'm not addressing you specifically Frances, I think you're a doll. I'm speaking generally to the bullies and fundies, whomever they may be)
Some of my best friends are queers, and I love and respect them for it.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
Melissa.. i think your latest posts are interesting...may i be so bold as to throw some fuel?
so this is what it comes down to? that people that have went through this amazing process, and confirmed their bodies to their minds, and then go on to share the experience with a group that could most benefit from it, are subjected to mocking and scorn?
honest realistic answers to questions from knowledgeable sources are taken as attacks?? i realize some posters here have a reputation for "bluntness" but that's not what i'm talking about...people act like they've been stabbed in the heart when their ts label gets some mud on it..
tranny brigade?!?!?
Well, i would i like to say that I am not a dinosaur
In fact, I am state of the art.
my "ideas" aren't old ideas...i'm not the "tranny brigade"...i don't live in "ideas" i live in the much maligned "real world"...i know you live there too, and you are getting by...you look great, you have lots of good vibes around you...you write gooder than me
but i hope you are not being too cavalier..
please feel free to join the club of out and proud "trannies" that 9 out of 10 wish they approached it differently.. being out is fun for about your 15 minutes of fame..
If you would like to meet all the ts girls that were happily "out" going in, but realized there was a "real world", you don't have to look farther than the myriad broken links, and untended web pages on dr conway's ts women's success page..
Real world...meet internet world.. are you a model? a doctor? a world renowned physicist? if not ... i would urge you to think this through..
For what it's worth, i have met a couple of us that were out and kept their current jobs...if you are in a good place, and you can keep your job..you have a chance...
other than that I don't know one that didnt have to change careers, lower expectations or be stealth...
I am not about telling a person whether they are ts or not...i notice sometimes people think i am...but i don't see how they can take things i say that way....
all i'm ever doing is sharing my experience...with the only group of people i know that actually give a crap about it..and my interpretation of that experience...and its so simple it hurts..
The surgery doesn't make you a woman...it permanently reboots your mind...don't believe me? your loss.. i'm not selling srs tickets..i'm just telling you what the surgery did...and that if you are like me , its inconceivable to me that a person would not want what this surgery did
so i always find it funny when people chide us post ops..telling us "it doesn't matter what's between your legs"..or "having a vagina doesnt make you a woman"......duh!... its not about what the surgery does to your pickle..its about what it does to your mind..
if you can twist your mind in enough knots to feel complete, then you are saving lots of money, and some pain...but i couldn't...
i think melissa you are having some fun at my expense because i tend to use "real world" as part of my posts, i would like to point out that despite your outer confidence and real world experience, you appear quite desperate for affirmation... you are moving mountains to get it in your life..you post pictures highlighting your beauty, assurances about your passing skills, and of course posting to anonymous people on the internet clever Socratic lessons in a Q&A format with predetermined answers designed to confirm YOUR transsexuality.....
and btw to continue with the lesson
"what a ts is NOT"...someone that paid their girly boy dues....
what a ts is NOT" ...someone that loses their family and finances..
"What a ts is NOT"...someone who earned the right to make their decisions... ... just sayin..
so throw those punches at the old dinosaur tranny brigade... i can take it.. i have magic vagina powers
I haven't read all the posts that followed the OP, but did read Melody's response and do appreciate and agree with her well thought out and accurate response... I'm gonna refrain from commenting much until I read more of the responses and think about it more, but will say this for now..
IF Being a TS is NOT about acting like a woman, why do I act like a woman?
IF Being a TS is NOT about passing as a woman, why does everyone around me see me as and treat me as one?
IF Being a TS is NOT about dressing like a woman, then what should I be wearing if not women's clothing... As a woman, I would expect that I'd wear women's clothing, no?
If you think Being a TS is NOT about being pretty, then you don't think like a woman, because ALL women want to be or feel pretty.
Being a TS is NOT about having surgeries.... OK, you got me there... but damn wish I could afford to have it.
Oh jeez Kaitlyn, did you stop to reload halfway through this?!
That was some pointed stuff, but I'm game and I'll admit to multiple good points. I'll also admit that it's impossible not to like you. I really believe that you're earnest and sincere and I appreciate that. I also appreciate just the right amount of bitchiness, because without it I'm afraid this discussion would be a little too academic in nature and would bore the pants off of me. Oooops, better cover my pickle. ;-)
Okay down to business;
Are you really saying that it's the bullies who are being mocked and scorned? Because there's been some pretty strong language directed at poor little me and all I did was choose to live my life differently. Can you believe that someone would have the nerve to live her own life? I realize that I'm being a little uppity for a pre-op but I can't help it. This is how life made me.
...and I believe what I said was SRS brigade, but now I see I'm being maligned for something else as well. Let's list the things I'm allegedly doing wrong in my transition so far;
1. I'm not sure I'll ever get SRS
2. I'm managing the process carefully so I can maintain my career
3. I'm not sure I want to be stealth
4. I don't always sit down to pee
I'm sure there's more but those are what I've gleaned from the thread so far. So the consensus is I'm not a TS? (maybe not yours, but it's been promoted) I'm cool with that. It seems silly to argue over the label, but why on earth is it so important that I live my life according to your rules, or even the prevailing wisdom? I don't know if you've noticed but I have very little respect for tradition, or seniority. Those things haven't served me very well so far.
If we kept track, I bet that list would grow exponentially over the next few weeks because I have no interest in doing anything that doesn't bring joy into my life. Am I selfish? You bet. I'm not getting any younger and it's inconceivable to me that I should waste any precious time entertaining the demands of the narrow minded. It took me um, 39 years to declare my freedom and that means freedom from everyone who would chain me with their expectations of how I should live.
Why do you think I'm twisting my mind into knots? I accepted my fate sometime after puberty. I stopped crying about my tiny pickle and I just moved on. The agony has passed, I've dealt with it. There's an outside chance that I may revisit that particular pain, but I won't make any guarantees. What I'd like you to remember is, it was a very important thing for YOU to do. I've read dozens of horror stories from girls who regretted the SRS, some to the point of suicide. I just bring that up because there are a million stories in the naked city and every single person has a different perspective. I'm surprised this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp. You seem much brighter than that. (oh no I di'unt)
What I find most compelling about this thread is how similar it is to the message I get from the fundies who always feel compelled to tell me that I will never be a woman. I was born a man and I will die a man no matter how many surgeries I have. I spend very little time (none) trying to convince them otherwise because I understand that their minds are made up. They have a rigid belief system that will not allow for any variance in spirituality, much less something as "simple" as gender. It's quite interesting that I get the same message from a site like this. Surprising. A tiny bit disheartening, but definitely interesting.
Now to my apparent desperation. What?!
I might be an attention *****, but I'm certainly not desperate for affirmation. I'm possibly a borderline narcissist, maybe a little full of myself, arguably full of crap but I am not desperate. Good lord, you may as well call me a dude.
Lita,
Do CD'rs act like women?
Do all trans women pass?
Are the clothes what drives you? If we all had to wear brown jumpsuits would you feel any less feminine?
Are all trans women pretty?
My point was really very simple and not meant to be antagonistic in the least.
None of those things define a TS woman. A female impersonator can do every single thing I mentioned, but still consider himself a man.
I was trying to say that we are who we are regardless of what we look like.
We're not pretending to be women, we are drawing from something that science can't explain.
By this time next year, I will have boobs installed, will that make me a woman? No it won't. I won't be anything different than I already am.
Finally, a truth that defines my TS experience. By causes unknown I am a woman in essence. The problem is being seen for who I am and the struggle is
removing the years of conditioning, the male physical markers, and over coming the life that was built on a lie in order to become myself.
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
Frances,
I have been on hormones & living as a woman long enough now that when I wear a bikini I guarantee that noone
will ever see my 'package'. Just this weekend I was staying at a girlfriends place & I did change my skirt in front
of 3 other girls because I am comfortable & confident enough to disrobe down to my underwear now. I thought
you were talking about being completely naked in a change room. Our public showers & change rooms always
have private cubicles, so I have no issue about being naked there. If I walked into the Men's amenities I would
feel more uncomfortable & shock more people than I ever would using the Ladies. So why should I feel guilty &
like I have no privilege or rights to use women's amenities eh? And if someone wants to get violent with me about
it? Then I say "Bring it on!".
sup dude.....lol
We're all full of crap honey!
I believe all of you stating SRS is unnecessary simply want the option of easily returning to life FT in your birth gender, at any time for any reason. SRS makes it more difficult to do so.
Since this is an almost entirely mtf thread, I can't help but wonder how many wives of married posters know that their husbands are TS?
Being TS is not living between genders
Being TS is not something you keep secret.
Katesback is right and I agree completely with her. To those of you offended by her words, the truth hurts.
MLD
Last edited by mustlovedogs; 07-05-2011 at 08:10 AM. Reason: spelling
Perhaps one of thousands of different reasons people decide not to have invasive surgery.I believe all of you stating SRS is unnecessary simply want the option of easily returning to life FT in your birth gender, at any time for any reason. SRS makes it more difficult to do so.
Why?Being TS is not living between genders
I agree wholeheartedly.Being TS is not something you keep secret.
False assumption, based on false premise.To those of you offended by her words, the truth hurts.
I'm a full time M2F TS I wouldn't return to that old life for anything if I had to i would probably just kill myself! I want SRS and if i had the means for SRS and FFS id do them both tomorrow however if i only had the money for FFS i would do that first and wait on the SRS. I do not agree with those who proclaim that one can not be TS unless they want SRS I know several woman who live full time who have had Orichy's or what ever the hell you call it and seem quite happy. They have been living this way longer than some of the Post ops posting here. One in particular that I am thinking of is one of the most passable TSes I know, she's not particularly pretty or really all the femme but no one would mistake her for a man. By contrast I have met quite a few dudes with pussies, personally I think its kinda sad but who am I to judge! So In this example the non op is fully assimilated in to society, To all the world she is a women only a select few people knows of her past or the status of her genitals. But yet the, more than a few, dudes with pussies I have met seem to have a very rough time of it.
I think the point is that each person gets to define who they are and according to the DSM one needn't want SRS to be considered TS, period. however everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally i just don't understand why some people are so adamant about an issue that no one in the "real world" gives a shit about. Frankly 90% of the population would consider ALL of us here freaks regardless of our pre, non or post op status.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 07-05-2011 at 08:38 AM.
I am not saying that a woman cannot have a penis or a man a vagina. And I am not saying that one cannot function as a woman in society while having a penis. What I am saying is that a trans woman cannot fully integrate into the world of women with a penis. I thought my examples were enough, but I could think up way more from communal showers, to shelters for battered or raped women, saunas, spas, religious cleansing rituals, changing clothes in front of other women in casual settings other than stores, skinny dipping at music festivals in Michigan, nudist beaches, and even harems. If you feel compelled to keep clothes on at all times in front of women, then you are hiding something, and that is saying something in and of itself.
I am not a binarist by any means, and think that they are other ways of being a person, like I said, but some points on the spectrum equate living in the margins. More power to the people who feel comfortable there.
Regardless, my opinion regarding transsexuality is that a TS is not someone who wishes to remain in Trannyville, as Kate would put it.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
Using the phrase "invasive surgery" sends the message that your NOT TS. Any TS would overlook the invasiveness to see corrective surgery. Yes it corrects a birth defect.
You are welcome to your opinion.
What? Your opinion and you don't even know me. It's never entered my head for a second that I'm leaving the door open to return to living as a man. Hell no I've done my time.
Spoken by someone who doesn't even have a picture on their profile. Secrets? My life is posted all over the internet. I post pics of myself without makeup. Have you read anything I've written? I'm not exactly hiding anything.
The truth hurts? What truth? What hurts? Her main premise is that I'm not a TS. That doesn't hurt me at all. Again, if I'm facing the adversity of transition in the "real world" then why would I be intimimidated by random people on a message board?
It's okay Jody, welcome to the club.
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