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Thread: What being a TS is NOT

  1. #51
    . Aprilrain's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katesback View Post
    I have to say one thing. If someone has no desire to have SRS then they ARE NOT TS. If they dont have the means to have SRS then I can take that but if someone wants to be a girl with a penis they sure as hell are not TS!
    What I'm trying to figure out is what is up with the dudes with pussies! I unfortunately went to my local support group meeting on monday and was like "why am I in a room full of dudes" two of whom had had SRS and at least two more of whom have surgery dates set. At least one 10 year post op "girl" was wearing all male clothing tee shirt, jeans, white socks and running shoes. other than "her" boobs and long hair you would never mistake "her" for female. "she" complained about being second classed by the men at work because they don't invite "her" out for beers afterward then asked if anyone else thought girl talk was boring, stupid, and hard to follow! I thought who the hell wants to go out for beers with a bunch of factory dudes and talk football! BARF! and what is so stupid boring and hard to follow about kids, relationships, and sex, its really not that esoteric. I mean really how can talking about SEX be boring! I've never talked fashion or make up with my GG friends other than to say "cute shoes" or "wow you look hot tonight"
    Maybe one is not a transsexual if one doesn't desire SRS but what the hell are you if that is ALL you want? of course the conversation at the meeting got around to how hard life can be for transsexuals and I couldn't help but think "yeah life IS hard for a dude in a dress" and like has been said a million times before on this forum it's not about what's between your legs.
    I also have to agree with Melissa the number of lesbian transwoman really baffles me! but hey each to her own. I have to disagree with Melissa on the keeping the OME though, the best part of having sex for me requires that I have a pussy. Its just something i know about myself

  2. #52
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    Another thing... there's a reason that SRS is one of the last things on the path of transition... because there are far more important things that will determine your happiness as you begin to live in the role of your true gender.

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittykitty View Post
    SO, if the person has a want to, but isn't because of reasons, then they still may be TS. They just haven't overcome their "reasons."
    Jeez, is transsexualism a concept that is really so hard for people to grasp a hold of?

    Being a 'transsexual' does not require any reasons for not wanting, or any desire to have SRS.

    While this is not the case for me personally, I do understand very well how some transsexuals
    are very happy & content living with their boy or girl bits & don't feel that it defines who they
    are & it does not mean they are not transsexual. For a lot of people the genitalia is only a very
    small but important part of who they are.

    Transsexualism is NOT about some type of a compulsory desire to have SRS before you can be
    diagnosed with Gender Identity Disorder. I know MtF transsexuals who have been diagnosed with
    GID & are on hormone therapy, but they have never expressed to any doctor or psychologist any
    desire to have SRS, they have only expressed a very strong desire to live as females opposite to
    their birth sex as males. Transsexualism is about the desire to live in the opposite gender to their
    biological birth sex is has nothing to do with havinga desire to have SRS.

    The bottom-line is you do NOT have to have a desire to have SRS to be transsexual!

    So have I made myself clear enough now? is there anything else we want to argument about?
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 06-30-2011 at 01:12 AM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    No disapproval.
    it seems logical that your lifestyle is most similar to a TS lifestyle...i think your analysis makes good sense..there is one big difference though... the endgame is not to assimilate and blend (although we tend to say that sometimes), the endgame is to "be"..
    of course , as Bill Clinton would say, it depends on the definition of the word be

    People that have srs either know how transcendent it is, how it changes everything, and how it opens up everything else in your mind (for good and bad), or they are conspiring together to trick crossdressers and gender queer folk into making a horrible mistake..

    your choice to live a transsexual woman's lifestyle may be right for you, and it's that you living the lifestyle of an early TS...

    but transsexuals close the deal or try and try and try...what we always find is that after the heady early days, which are especially heady if we can afford ffs, if we pass or are naturally pretty like you, the novelty wears off..the excitement is gone, it's just day to day ...to day...to day...and many ts do not get the blessing of femme features or size, and yet they go on...if you are a gender queer soul, you will find that time and energy you spend on playing your female only role will wear on you....that's just what is going to happen...and then you will find out what people are trying to tell you.. you'll either feel the need to take this further, or not...and if not, you may find yourself in the pickle..
    I'm curious, what pickle?

  5. #55
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    I would love to watch someone walk up to Buck Angel and tell him he's not a man.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilrain View Post
    I'm curious, what pickle?
    The pickle in my pants silly
    Last edited by Sandra; 06-30-2011 at 04:23 AM. Reason: merged post multiposting is not allowed
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  6. #56
    Psyco Roller Derby Doll. Katesback's Avatar
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    Ya noticed some of those eaa? Yea well there are a number of those men that have had SRS and for whatever reason went back to being a boy. Or they did not take the effort to really put thier presentation toghether. Or they hit a mental roadblock and remained in trannyland and never became a woman.

    Yep I have met those people. Very sad. Some of them ya want to ask "what happened to you".

    Your remark about Ts girls being lesbian. Thats another interesting concept. I think part of it is that dating men for most means a VERY high rejection probability while dating women is percieved as easier. Another reason I believe is that many just did not go to the effort to mentally prepare themselves to date men but since they have dated women all alone it is seen as easier. There are most assuridly other reasons but those are the big ones as far as I can tell.



    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilrain View Post
    What I'm trying to figure out is what is up with the dudes with pussies! I unfortunately went to my local support group meeting on monday and was like "why am I in a room full of dudes" two of whom had had SRS and at least two more of whom have surgery dates set. At least one 10 year post op "girl" was wearing all male clothing tee shirt, jeans, white socks and running shoes. other than "her" boobs and long hair you would never mistake "her" for female. "she" complained about being second classed by the men at work because they don't invite "her" out for beers afterward then asked if anyone else thought girl talk was boring, stupid, and hard to follow! I thought who the hell wants to go out for beers with a bunch of factory dudes and talk football! BARF! and what is so stupid boring and hard to follow about kids, relationships, and sex, its really not that esoteric. I mean really how can talking about SEX be boring! I've never talked fashion or make up with my GG friends other than to say "cute shoes" or "wow you look hot tonight"
    Maybe one is not a transsexual if one doesn't desire SRS but what the hell are you if that is ALL you want? of course the conversation at the meeting got around to how hard life can be for transsexuals and I couldn't help but think "yeah life IS hard for a dude in a dress" and like has been said a million times before on this forum it's not about what's between your legs.
    I also have to agree with Melissa the number of lesbian transwoman really baffles me! but hey each to her own. I have to disagree with Melissa on the keeping the OME though, the best part of having sex for me requires that I have a pussy. Its just something i know about myself

  7. #57
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aprilrain View Post
    I also have to agree with Melissa the number of lesbian transwomen really baffles me! but hey each to her own.
    Maybe I'm naive, but what is so baffling about the fact that some women are lesbians? In my opinion, the "trans" prefix is just a diversion.

    As I said earlier
    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    Being a TS is NOT about who you are attracted to
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  8. #58
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    Spot on Rianna, there are many trans-women who identify as lesbian, I am one of them & being a pre-op
    MtF transsexual really makes no difference. I have been invited to join my local lesbian support group, so
    these women obviously see me & accept me as being a female who is attracted to other women do they not?

    By the way & for the record I am not diagnosed as a Male to Female Transsexual, I have a unique diagnosis,
    probably not shared by many others around here being Intersex: assigned male transsexual female. So what
    does that make me? TS or not TS?
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 06-30-2011 at 01:35 AM.

  9. #59
    Senior Member Kelsy's Avatar
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    I think Kate is right on this. There are alot of transgenderists that live and function as women in society but have no desire to change their physical
    self permanently. I believe that a strong body dysphoria goes hand in hand with the general gender dysphoeia that characterizes, defines and separates the Transsexual
    from other Transgendered individuals.
    Born female intended

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  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsy View Post
    There are alot of transgenderists that live and function as women in society but have no desire to change their physical
    self permanently.
    Transgenderist? Ok that is a new label, kinda like a new transsexual girl in my local
    support group who was telling me about when she starts her transgendering LOL

    Anyway, as far as I know a transgenderist is a person who lives cross-gender without SRS,
    but to live cross-gender then isn't that the same as cross-dressing? Living as a boy through
    the day to go to work & as a female at night when they come home? But what about those
    transsexuals who don't live cross-gender & live full-time? Are they really transgenderist or are
    they really transsexual when you read into the proper definitions?

    Anyway, so Kate re-write the manual for what actually defines a transsexual did she?
    Because what she is claiming is that a transsexual must have a desire to have SRS, but
    if you read the proper definition of transsexualism, there is no requirement to have SRS
    in order to be diagnosed & identified as a transsexual. Being transsexual is about having
    the desire to live as the opposite gender to your biological birth sex. Go read it for yourself
    if you don't believe me - See: transsexualism.

    By the way, TG Labels Suck!
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 06-30-2011 at 05:13 AM.

  11. #61
    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Transgenderist? Ok that is a new label,
    By that definition, any term coined in the last 40 years is a new label. Transgenderist was first coined by Virginia Price in the 1970s to denote a person who lived in their chosen Gender role full time without medication or surgery. Her argument was that if you had any kind of surgery or medication, you would be a pre-op transsexual.
    Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.

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  12. #62
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    Maybe I'm naive, but what is so baffling about the fact that some women are lesbians? In my opinion, the "trans" prefix is just a diversion.

    As I said earlier
    Hi Ri,

    I'm not baffled by the existence of lesbians or trans lesbians, I was just using that as an example of something I personally don't get. I'm not attacted to women so obviously I can't relate. I think I was answering Karen who pointed out that she doesn't understand the idea of keeping the pickle. April and I were just illustrating that we all have different needs, and however we happen to be bent doesn't make us any better or any worse than anybody else.

    I certainly don't begrudge anyone their sexual preference. Taste the rainbow baby.

    It is a touch bizarre though that after all I've been through with this gender stuff, I end up learning the same thing on this board that I learned when I was 5 years old.
    Penis = Man
    Vagina = Woman

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  13. #63
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    people are too caught up too much in the medical definitions...and melody i agree labels suck anyway, so lets just drop the wikepedia/dsm links..!! LOL...
    the medical definitions are being built up over time.. they are different in different countries.. years ago they caused more harm then good and they've been changed multiple times...and they will change again..

    Melody i think you missing the concept of desiring to keep your penis and liking your penis as compared to the laundry list of issues that cause TS women to miss out on srs...and i don't think it's a stretch for some to become resigned to keeping it..

    To the billions of cisgendered women out there, having a vagina is a part of being a woman...none of them..NONE..WANT a penis.... i don't really care what some doctors cooked up for me and you... doctors are necessary and they mostly want to help...but a woman does not want a penis... and a mtf transsexual woman does not want a penis...it has NOTHING to do with reasons...we are talking about people that DESIRE to keep their penis....even if that person lives as female, that is different than transsexual

    and bree no one is really judging...(at least i'm not)... i think your points are well taken but there are many people here that have done the surgery...and they have experienced life after the surgery, and they know what it's like..
    and they are saying that they cannot imagine that a person that isnt interested in srs is the same as them...

    you are right that it may not matter......
    certainly there are lots of similarities and every one of us is allowed to live their life in happiness and acceptance...

    it only gets tricky when people start talking issues...to transgendered people it's an identity crisis, so we tend to protect and cherish our understanding of our own identities..
    unlike cisgendered people, we have to EARN our own identities!!!! it's an accomplishment for us...(so unfair, but that's besides the point)
    and when we come to these forums to discuss life changing decisions, it's important to understand where a person is coming from.. it's not judging..it's important to help us all communicate and understand each other...

  14. #64
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    kitty i guess you are right, i haven't asked them all...i'm wondering how you got to ask them!!! in any case, wanting to know what's its like is different than having one..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittykitty View Post
    That's a broad brush stroke and not true. Aside from this site, I chat and hang out with cisgendered women exclusively, and when the subject has come up, each and every one of them has expressed a desire to have a penis. Not necessarily forever, they just want to know what it's like.
    It's funny that you mention that... one of my ex-girlfriends said she wished she had one and knew what it would be like to use it. Again, not permanently :P

  16. #66
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittykitty View Post
    Oddly enough, they discuss it from time to time amongst themselves. I've never asked, I've only been told and questioned.
    well i guess someday when my circle of gg friends starts discussing what it's like th have a penis, i'll be able to tell them

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    Melody i think you missing the concept of desiring to keep your penis and liking your penis as compared to the laundry list of issues that cause TS women to miss out on srs...and i don't think it's a stretch for some to become resigned to keeping it..
    Kaitlyn, I came from the same old beliefs as you & a lot of other people did with believing what defines a transsexual,
    however after more study I have come to the conclusion that my own initial beliefs were very wrong, just like many
    of the other misconceptions about what defines our gender that you see posted here. As for cis-women having a
    vagina & not having a penis... Well how should a person identify if they are born intersex with ambiguous genitalia,
    but they feel they are female in every other sense but they have a over-sized clitoris which looks just like a penis?

    Since the age of 15 I have known I am a 'female' but I then repressed it because I had 'boy bits' & no matter what
    I did to try & prove to myself I was a male, those feelings about my true gender identity being female & that I also
    felt was wrong constantly kept creeping back in. So what defines my gender identity? What is between my legs or
    could it be something else? could it be my feeling of self-identity? The fact I have some natural female attributes
    including breasts? My chromosomes perhaps? I would have a vagina & a very big clit if my vagina wasn't removed.

    So what defines me now? So what does it mean to have the diagnosis of "Intersex: Assigned Male/Transsexual Female"?
    From what I understand & have been told, this means I am a person who was born with physical characteristics of both
    sexes has been surgically reassigned as a male, but now transitioning because of my desire to live forever as a female.

    Now you know why me, my doctor & my pyschologist all really hate labels... If I am this confused imagine how they feel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    well i guess someday when my circle of gg friends starts discussing what it's like th have a penis, i'll be able to tell them
    Don't worry even being pre-op it's already started for me, some of my GG friends
    are already asking me all sorts of questions like what is it like having a penis? My
    reply is usually... Well how would you feel of you had a 6" clit when it was erect?
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 06-30-2011 at 11:20 AM.

  18. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    Maybe I'm naive, but what is so baffling about the fact that some women are lesbians? In my opinion, the "trans" prefix is just a diversion.

    As I said earlier
    there is nothing baffling about lesbians or that some transwoman would be lesbians, it is the number of them that astounds me. in my support group I am a rarity there are only i think 3 of us who like guys, the rest claim to like woman. Interestingly enough One girl who is young and very pretty dated a GG who hangs out with us for a while the GG and I were talking one night and she told me that Lily (the TS) likes guys she just doesn't like penis. ?????? What the hell else are they good for! carrying heavy stuff?

  19. #69
    Silver Member Starling's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bree_K View Post
    ...Sometimes I lean towards keeping my penis because my boyfriend and I use it (because he doesn't have one), and because it's friggin expensive as hell to get rid of. However, I keep going back to wishing it wasn't there, despite what fun and intimacy we do get from it...
    That's a remarkably poignant thought, Bree. What a wonderful gift it would be if you could give your lover your penis. It's almost an O'Henry story.

    If you haven't already read it, look up The Gift of the Magi.

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    Time for a change.

  20. #70
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    So I have been watching this thread develop for a few days... and I must admit to being somewhat baffled by it. And it isn't like this thread is particularly new - a thread like this pops up every few weeks. I have been equally baffled by those that have come before it.

    Here is my confusion:

    What is this really about?

    Because it looks like it is little more than wall maintenance. It looks like a group of girls sitting around deciding what characteristics one must possess to be allowed to join their little club - and which characteristics one must not have if one wishes to remain a member of the club. Sure - everyone is very careful to declare their distaste for labels - but that doesn't seem to preclude folks from voicing their opinions about who is in and who is out. Are we really policing the group like this? Is this really what we are doing?

    'cause if it is - I have another one: Being TS isn't about telling other people how to be TS. It isn't about comparing yourself to others or telling your sisters that they are not serious enough, or pretty enough, or don't feel the right way about being TS to call themselves TS. There are enough people in the world who will do this work for us, and they are much more savage about it. We really don't need more of it from within. But then - maybe not all of us are on the inside?
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  21. #71
    Senior Member Kelsy's Avatar
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    I dunno Hope I didn't take the tread that way. Certainly everyone is not Transsexual, some are and many others are Transgendered but I agree if the
    underlying scope of the thread is to divide the community or even to reinforce a pecking order in the TS community based on whose in
    and who is not then the thread is not helpful. There is not one poster here that possesses all of the answers!
    Born female intended

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  22. #72
    Silver Member kellycan27's Avatar
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    Seems to me that the gist of the OP is that you really don't need any female attributes to be a woman other than what you have in head and heart.
    "one day I'll fly away..... leave all this to yesterday"

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  23. #73
    Psyco Roller Derby Doll. Katesback's Avatar
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    Ya know that is actually a funny way to put it. Kind of reminds me of the comedy thing where someone walks around thinking they are a kitten and tells everyone they are but nobody believe them. More power to emm eaa?

    As far as HOPE goes. She seems to read words that are not there. I dont think anyone implied that one group of people is better than another. Saying someone is gay instead of straight does not imply that one is better. As I said the person that wants to live life as a woman but has no DESIRE to have SRS is not transsexual. Once again that does not imply that one is better than the other. Personally I really could care less what someone does or says they are. But they sure as heck are not going to convince me that they are a transsexual when they want to keep thier penis.

    In closing, I realize that some of you have nothing good to say about me and that is fine. I am NOT here to make friends, rather I would perefer to focus my friendships on non trans people because its a lot healther.
    I am not here to address the feelings or concerns for the people that are not serious. I am here to help a VERY small few that are serious. Because there are so few real transsexual women and even fewer that have had SRS and went on, I feel I can be helpful. My perspectives are based upon having lived through the process beayond SRS and FFS. That would make me an expert in some ways. Since very few of you have had SRS I would suggest you accept you might not know quite as much as someone that has had it.

    Do I have some hard and fast beliefs? Sure. I have earned them! I actually lived the process, I didnt live it in the fantasy world of the internet.



    QUOTE=kellycan27;2533748]Seems to me that the gist of the OP is that you really don't need any female attributes to be a woman other than what you have in head and heart.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Katesback; 07-01-2011 at 10:18 PM.

  24. #74
    FTM ~ Andro ~ Boi Areyan's Avatar
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    i had a response all ready for this thread on behalf of the brothers, as i got mildly offended at page 1 or 2 when Capt Lex was dissed... damn. i post here in the TS forum fairly regularly and i'm FTM. hello

    i just read through the entire series of replies and all i can do is shake my head. really? ugh.

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  25. #75
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Gosh folks, I wasn't trying to start a grumble fest.

    Freddie posted something a while back about this being a discussion group and we should discuss things and I happened to agree with her 100% so I thought I would initiate a topic for us to discuss. I enjoy exploring our various motivations and objectives and our feelings about why we are the way we are. I'm always interested in how other people arrive at the same place when they took a totally different route. I love the vigorous back and forth with intelligent (but open minded) people whose pointed arguments sometimes stretch the limits of what I know, or what I think I know. This is an internet forum after all. What else are we supposed to do within the texty confines of a discussion board?

    Instead of forthright discussion, everyone just picked a corner and squared off against each other. That's not exactly what I had in mind, even though I do tend to see what I want to see most of the time.

    I will admit that there are certain members that tend to kill discussion threads, but I urge those of you with something to say, to say it and ignore the bullies that would be delighted to get the last word in as if it were law.
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