What being a TS is NOT

[Katesback]

Another interesting topic that we have not touched upon when it refers to the people that want to appear as a woman but have the penis. See they all to often cycle the hormones. What do I mean? Thats a really good question. I would not know this have I not had the opportunity to work with these people.

See the reality for some of these people is they want the female body but at the same time they want the penis. They want the penis to work!!! Yes they want it to work. Since the hormones that REAL TS girls take have a high probability of turning off the workings of the penis these people have to go to great measures to modify thier hormone intake. Often in conversations with these people the mere mention of taking hormones and the penis stops working brings a look of horror across thier face. Many will simply make a half hearted attempt at the hormones by skipping spiro and taking a low dose of estro. They often resort to pumping industrial grade silicon (Dont get me started in the results of pumping silicone for I have seen horror) into thier bodies when they realize that the hormone dose they take does not get them the female body.

One might ask why do they want the penis to work. Well some are in the porn industry and having a working penis and female body are a huge money maker in the porn industry. They might be prostitutes, another great way to make money when you look like a girl but have a penis. Others have ventured into the dating world with a penis and come to realize that TONS of men want them! Of course they dont really understand that the desire these men have is not healthy. These men see them as ********, Trannies, Chicks with DICKS, and a host of other wonderful phrases that the porn industry is littered with. Otherwise put they are a object of perversion that men have and something that can easily be put aside once the experience has been satisfied.

You have seen me write that Pre-op girls should not date. I have my reasons, pre-op is your time to learn to present to the world a woman but your NOT REALLY a woman yet. You cannot be a woman when you have a penis! Your in limbo. Is it any wonder than any pre-op girl that dates has a 90% something percent chance of failure. Thats because they not a woman yet. Your in traning stage! If you keep the penis your NEVER going to be a woman!

Another common reason to keep the penis is because the person is married. If theres a penis then the person is still a husband (male) so they will conceed to keep it. Some will get an orcie which is a cop op, but its as close as they dare to go because lord knows they dont want to loose thier wife. How scarry could that be?

In my work with these people virtually all of them called themselves transsexual. Yes inded they did. Virtually all of them said they did not want to have SRS. Virtually all of them had conversations that were similar to the conversations and points of view that I had with crossdressers.

In the end I can say these people had little in common with post-op and girls seriously on the path to SRS. I never sharred my personal views with these people because I was working in an official capacity but today I no longer do that. So now I can say. I belive that my view is sharred by the majority of post-op girls and that is that anyone who wants to keep thier penis is not TS. The girls that took the effort and put thier necks on the line to be as close to female as medically possible do not look favorably on people that want to group themselves into the same catagory as them but not do the work!

Katie

[Katesback]

Your friend is truely a rare case. I would rather play the lotto.

As far as becomming a woman. Yes being TS is becomming a woman. Sure your a woman in your head but your not in the eyes of the world. That my dear is the journey a REAL TS is willing to take. She is willing to become a woman in the eyes of the world and take all the shit that comes with doing that. Because the process of becomming a woman in the eyes of the world is possibly the hardest thing a person can do it takes 100% effort. Baby steps, not wanting SRS, pondering for years and years, living life part time as a woman, waivering back and forth, compromising this 100% effort because one wants to stay married only leads to pain and suffering.
Perhaps this is why you have seen me say a person needs to make a decision they can live with and EXECUTE that decision.

Katie

Kate, this thread helped me see the core of some of your argument. Some of the core I agree with.

However, I don't believe one "becomes" a woman.

I also think you are painting men with a broad brush stroke when you say they are using Tgirls as an object of perversion. First, it objectifies transwomen, or however you would like to define them. Second, my BFF has been in a relationship for 12+ years with a wonderful man who has supported her through everything but the first 2 years of her transition. She is now 2 yrs post op and their relationship hasn't changed a bit.

Being TS is not about becoming a woman, it's about revealing her.

[JulieK1980]

As far as becomming a woman. Yes being TS is becomming a woman. Sure your a woman in your head but your not in the eyes of the world. That my dear is the journey a REAL TS is willing to take. She is willing to become a woman in the eyes of the world and take all the shit that comes with doing that. Because the process of becomming a woman in the eyes of the world is possibly the hardest thing a person can do it takes 100% effort. Baby steps, not wanting SRS, pondering for years and years, living life part time as a woman, waivering back and forth, compromising this 100% effort because one wants to stay married only leads to pain and suffering.
Perhaps this is why you have seen me say a person needs to make a decision they can live with and EXECUTE that decision.

For many the execution of their decision is *gasp* different then you. Can't imagine why you are no longer working in an "official" capacity. You can argue what is, and what isn't all you would like. We all at this point know what your view is. That's fine. Good for you! However, myself and, (I'm sure many others) will continue back to the real world where everything isn't all nice and black and white for us. I do envy you in your ability to limit the world to simplistic views like that, however I'm unable to narrow my vision that much.

In all honesty though, your insistence that your way is right, and you know all, while appearing self pretentious, is looking a lot more at an attempt at self justification. I think you have some underlying regrets and worries over your path, and feel threatened by people that choose other paths. Every time someone disagrees with you, you feel the need to belittle them, and criticize them. Or perhaps it's not related to your transition at all, perhaps it's some other issue in your life that is leading you to "stagnation" instead of "generativity." Who knows.

In reality though, I hope you realize that most of us that take a different road than you could care less what you or anyone else thinks of OUR choices. If we are shunned by nearly all of society, what a few pretentious post-op transexuals think of us, isn't even going to register on our radar. More likely we will just feel sad for you, and hope that you can overcome your personal issues. I really see it as a shame. You probably do possess a wealth of information that could help countless people, but your own narrow vision negates the benefits of that information.

But, then what do I know, I'm apparently destined to be a star in porn as a she-male. Well, least the paycheck will be nice.

[Katesback]

Yes its the little green men that captured me and changed me into a woman against my will and forever I am in pain and suffering because I have a vagina and I really wanted to keep my penis because I could have been a ******* prostitute and make tons of money, get HIV/AIDS and live happily ever after. LOL

For many the execution of their decision is *gasp* different then you. Can't imagine why you are no longer working in an "official" capacity. You can argue what is, and what isn't all you would like. We all at this point know what your view is. That's fine. Good for you! However, myself and, (I'm sure many others) will continue back to the real world where everything isn't all nice and black and white for us. I do envy you in your ability to limit the world to simplistic views like that, however I'm unable to narrow my vision that much.

In all honesty though, your insistence that your way is right, and you know all, while appearing self pretentious, is looking a lot more at an attempt at self justification. I think you have some underlying regrets and worries over your path, and feel threatened by people that choose other paths. Every time someone disagrees with you, you feel the need to belittle them, and criticize them. Or perhaps it's not related to your transition at all, perhaps it's some other issue in your life that is leading you to "stagnation" instead of "generativity." Who knows.

In reality though, I hope you realize that most of us that take a different road than you could care less what you or anyone else thinks of OUR choices. If we are shunned by nearly all of society, what a few pretentious post-op transexuals think of us, isn't even going to register on our radar. More likely we will just feel sad for you, and hope that you can overcome your personal issues. I really see it as a shame. You probably do possess a wealth of information that could help countless people, but your own narrow vision negates the benefits of that information.

But, then what do I know, I'm apparently destined to be a star in porn as a she-male. Well, least the paycheck will be nice.

[Frances]

Yes its the little green men that captured me and changed me into a woman against my will and forever I am in pain and suffering because I have a vagina and I really wanted to keep my penis because I could have been a ******* prostitute and make tons of money, get HIV/AIDS and live happily ever after. LOL

You too? I thought I was the only one.

[JulieK1980]

Yes its the little green men that captured me and changed me into a woman against my will and forever I am in pain and suffering because I have a vagina and I really wanted to keep my penis because I could have been a ******* prostitute and make tons of money, get HIV/AIDS and live happily ever after. LOL

Once upon a time, in my teen years (which were decidedly too long ago,) I think I read a story about that. I didn't know you wrote an autobiography.....

[JulieK1980]

This is a decent thread, let's not let it come down to personal, off topic replies.

Kate, let's say a person realizes they are in the wrong body. It seems you are saying the day they realize this they should start fully presenting, world and consequences be damned.

These things take time. If you did it overnight, good for you. Never heard of anyone taking less than 3 years to complete electrolysis.

Quite honestly, the disagreement comes down to a semantic argument of definitions of words. What is or isn't TS. The person is still the person regardless, and what they choose is personal. I find it peculiar that there is this idea of a definitive rapid answer to transexuality. (Which incidently, contradicts modern medical/mental science.) The path a person takes is in essence, personal and individual. To say that all people should follow the same path, is (to me at least) laughable. Just this one single forum shows such a dramatic difference in people that it's odd to think there is a catch-all solution. Especially when it comes to life altering transition. For some transition has to be rapid, or there are deadly consequences such as suicide. For others, (and there is more than one instance) a person transitions rapidly, and is unhappy with the results which also sometimes ends in suicide. I honestly wish there was an easy solution for all, it would simplify the lives of everyone that is TG, nevermind just TS. But, there is not. What we have here is merely a conglomeration of sharply divided opinions. All of these opinions are based on the experiences of ONE person. It takes more than the experience of ONE person to say anything definitively. I don't mean to mock Kate's own experiences, but one has to question the motives behind such all assuming notions.

To answer what a TS is NOT: Well, a TS is apparently not definitive.

[Frances]

All of these opinions are based on the experiences of ONE person. It takes more than the experience of ONE person to say anything definitively. I don't mean to mock Kate's own experiences, but one has to question the motives behind such all assuming notions.

Actually, most post-ops in this thread seem to be in agreement (more or less). There is no need to single out Kate as a villain. The notions are not assumed, but come from experience, which does not have much currency on this site and in the trans community as a whole.

[Hope]

Katesback is right and I agree completely with her.

Hell, I have $10 that says you ARE her.

Ladies, can we stop feeding the troll?

[JennyA]

I think too much importance is being laid on the penis. If a transitioning girl is out in public she is, unless on a nude beach, clothed and tucked.
When they encounter people in their daily travels they are presenting as a female and hopefully they have down a good feminine voice and female mannerisms. No one out in public is going to grab her in the crotch to inspect her status before interacting with her and frankly it shouldn't have any bearing on how she gets treated.

Why the push to label people into such specific boxes and smack rules and stipulations on it all? One thing we hope for when transitioning is to not be blindly judged, yet that's all we do to each other here at times.

[Katesback]

I love how Hope, the person that claims to have put me on ignore is still taking pot shots at me and other people. Perhaps she is just upset because she wants to keep her penis but have the right to call herself transsexual. How special.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i did reload..and my shotgun is double barreled..LOL.. i don't like being called a dinosaur..i was basing my comments on your comments, i was unaware you were only targeting one poster, but you did call it a brigade...and yes an srs brigade, not the nicest way to say it, but i got that wrong...my bad

i don't think you are "not TS"... i have no say in the matter, nor do i want a say... but i am interested in the topic because I am totally looking at it the other way around..
I am saying that It is my position that IF you are TS, the need for expression of your gender will never go away until your body conforms... that is how i define ts...if you can live with this need for your life, then that doesn't mean you are not TS...it means you figured out another way...i could no longer live with that need...
I have said this over and over, and people still respond..so you are saying i'm not TS??
IF YOU ARE TS then..... is different than YOU ARE NOT TS BECAUSE......whether i am right or wrong in my thinking, it drives me nuts when i get that reaction..the fact that so many people feel attacked by seems to agree with the notion that many use communication as part of their validation and expression of gender..ie posting about what is ts?

Melissa, I am delighted for you , and i think you are very much on a good track for you at this time ..having your head on straight is much more important than most of us like to admit.. and mistakes made early on tend to resonate ..
i do think you are missing some things about transition that you are likely to see over time.. if you are TS, looking like a woman is going to end up being less than exciting, it's time consuming, expensive, and much less satisfying over time than you think..
you will still have work issues, and they may be worse because you are not getting surgery.. all the bad stuff happens whether you have a penis or not...and you will find out something is missing..it may take time, looking female is good as far as it goes, but i have found that despite passing and doing ffs, i can't look at my face without having male in my head sometimes....you will look great (i'm jealous of your looks..which is why you like me) but if you are ts, your body will still not match your gender..and it was the confirmation of my gender in my body that flicked the switch...and it was such a surprisingly powerful thing, that i continue to harp about it...and every single post op ts girl on this forum has said the same thing... your call whether you think its a grand conspiracy about tricking you into inverting your pickle

forgive me for repeating something, but you started a thread called what a ts is not...why? my answer is because you care about it...and it's likely because you suffer from a disconnect in your mind, and you have suffered a life where everyone looks at you as male, and we both know that sucks.....we don't want to suffer, we want to thrive, its a nice feeling when we feel we can thrive..
but you are planning to keep your male parts...this is basically the opposite of affirmation of your identity (IF you are ts)..but of course, like me, you need affirmation...and you started a thread about it...
btw pls let me take back the word desperation, i didn't mean that, it was mean to say,.....i was desperate to go to bed when i wrote it..

SO either you brought up a topic that you literally care nothing about (and i'm a sucker for being here at all), or you do care...which is it? you know what my answer is.....
btw there are lots of these threads...people seeking validation...if you are honestly here, searching for answers, then its quite likely you are ts...if you are not jerking off to the pictures, you are very likely ts...and it's quite likely you will benefit greatly from a gender confirmation surgery...expressing your nature through talking about it is comforting, but in the end its bullcrap.....have fun attacking kate for her blunt and sometimes cruel comments but this is the difference between the real world....here you can just say it....it's so easy....but in the end it will be cold comfort..i don't base that only on my experience..it is something i have seen over and over again..it sucks to hear if you think you've got it all sorted out..i know i didn't want to hear it when i looked at myself as a queer crossdresser

you do not see any postop girls posting..."am i ts?...what is ts to you? ..did i do the right thing? i had srs, and now i'm confused"...etcetc..we all post pretty much the same thing and as Frances says, the surgery works as advertised.
but it is devalued by the much larger group here that has not had surgery..

you brought up other ideas, basically that you are attention seeking, etc... these may be true, but there are lots of ways to indulge your narcissism and need for the spotlight than posting on a forum..

now i can't deny what you are saying about getting over having a penis...that is interesting and it makes sense..but being resigned to your male parts is different than wanting them..i'm sorry but actually wanting a penis is just ridiculous..

finally
i do not accept your comment on all the unhappy srs patients...i'm sure there are people that are not TS that somehow got caught up in rahrah I"m TS and they are sorry about it..there are people that should not have had the surgery or they got caught by religious people that shame them but we aren't talking about that crowd...

i am in an extended group of surgery/non surgery TS/CD people, tg people of all stripes.... i have been involved for many years... i am not aware of one single person with srs (30 of them?) that regretted the actual SRS.....
the surgery does what it is intended to do, the problems come when the patient expects more..
the regret i see are the folks that come in month after month, year after year.. whining about their dysphoria, wondering what to do, afraid of the risks, and wondering why no cares about their problem., and they say the same things over and to me it sounds like they are desperate, the regret i see is the 60 and 70 yr olds sitting there crying because they are so devastated they didn't do this before..

the only srs patients i know that complain/regret anything are those that regret transition in the first place...and they don't regret the wonderful feeling of confirmation..they just wish their transition turned out better, they regret either the choices they made in transition that negatively impacted their lives, or the unlucky/discriminatory things that happened to them post transition (usually because they had surgical complications or they don't pass or they were out and proud and they paid for it)..this frankly is a larger group, and many of us are surprised to end up in it and there is alot of bitterness and anger.. i hope i don't end up there...but its not about the srs.....

[Katesback]

Perhaps this particular part of the forum should have a different title. Perhaps it should be titled "Crossdressers that think they are Transsexual". As a matter of fact I submit that to the moderator. It seems far more fitting. As Katlyn and the other Post-Op girls have said, many of you dont want to hear the harsh reality of life as it is. I myself am quite willing to offer my email address and possibly phone number if any of you need clarification. Furthermore I have a TON of pictures and video of me out in the real world living my life. I am beginning to wonder to what extent the people in this forum are actually even out of the closet at this point in thier lives. I mean really. Some of you honestly feel I am cruel, mean, a troll, and trying to discount you. I submit to you that many of your views are the same as what I would expect to see from a Crossdresser. Fantastical and not exactly realistic. As Katlin said she has seen so much disfunction and it comes from the people that arent willing to make a decision and execute it. Someone made a silly comment about why I no longer work for trans people. You could not pay me enough money to do that again! I could only take so much of the shit that I would hear. Chicks with dicks calling themselves transsexual out dating men and proud of it. Then comming to me crying because they got HIV/AIDS. Trans people telling me they were serious about transitioning but the backstory was they had been going to support groups telling this shit for 15 years and never doing anything but talking.

I once met a person that told me he was a cat. I stood there and said ok. My inner thought were "prove it". I doubt even some of the people here would agree that if someone told you they were a cat you would believe them. Now the same thing applies to you people that tell me your a woman. If you are a woman you need to prove it, because until you do I and the rest of the world wont believe you. Talk is cheap but actions are real!

[Kelsy]

As Katlin said she has seen so much disfunction and it comes from the people that arent willing to make a decision and execute it.

I once met a person that told me he was a cat. I stood there and said ok. My inner thought were "prove it". I doubt even some of the people here would agree that if someone told you they were a cat you would believe them. Now the same thing applies to you people that tell me your a woman. If you are a woman you need to prove it, because until you do I and the rest of the world wont believe you. Talk is cheap but actions are real!

You tell it like it is and sugar coat nothing Kate and I appreciate it. It's shut up and put up! nothing else really counts!

[Melody Moore]

Actually, most post-ops in this thread seem to be in agreement (more or less). There is no need to single out Kate as a villain.

I will say it once again hun...

SRS does not define you as a woman - SRS is the final step of affirmation & nothing more.

Once again my genitalia does not define me as a woman, I do not have to lift my skirt & drop
my underwear & prove I have an 'inny & not an outty' to earn my privileges & rights as a female.

And finally I just wanted to remind you that I am one person who does want my SRS, but just because I
might not be able to afford it & I am still pre-op, it doesnt make me any less transsexual or any less a woman.

I am starting to ready get sick of the arrogant attitude of some of the Post-op girls here who think they have
more rights & privileges & can 'lord it over' someone who is pre-op. Just remember girls, you were once boys too!

[Frances]

And finally I just wanted to remind you that I am one person who does want my SRS, but just because I
might not be able to afford it & I am still pre-op, it doesnt make me any less transsexual or any less a woman.

We are in total agreement here. Maybe my English is not as good as I assumed.

[Katesback]

Well you can read my analogy about the man that told me he is a cat. More importantly if you were walking down the street and a guy walked up to you and told you he was a woman. Would you believe him? Or how about if you were in the bathroom and a man walked in. You confronted him and he told you he was a woman. Would you believe him? I am sorry but I would not. Yes of course gender identity is between your ears. I have said that but that does not mean your transsexual if your gender identity does not match your appearance. The day you proclaim you are transsexual you had damm well better have the desire to eventually get SRS. If you dont your NOT transsexual. Transgender sure I will buy that.

I will say it once again hun...

SRS does not define you as a woman - SRS is the final step of affirmation & nothing more.

Once again my genitalia does not define me as a woman, I do not have to lift my skirt & drop
my underwear & prove I have an 'inny & not an outty' to earn my privileges & rights as a female.

And finally I just wanted to remind you that I am one person who does want my SRS, but just because I
might not be able to afford it & I am still pre-op, it doesnt make me any less transsexual or any less a woman.

I am starting to ready get sick of the arrogant attitude of some of the Post-op girls here who think they have
more rights & privileges & can 'lord it over' someone who is pre-op. Just remember girls, you were once boys too!

[Melody Moore]

We're talking about a person who looks, feels, acts, sounds, smells, and appears in every way except one, as a woman. Unless you're their lover, you would never know.

Thank you, that was very well said - I have nothing more to add to this really in reply to Kate.

This answers exactly why that every-time I am out in public I am identified & respected as a woman
even if I am a pre-op transsexual. Once again Kate SRS does not make you a woman! The main part of
the anatomy that defines you as a woman is something found inside your head, not between your legs.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

We are in total agreement here. Maybe my English is not as good as I assumed.

i thought your english was fine..

pls melody if you quote somebody at least try to have an understanding of what she said.. pls show me where frances said SRS defines you as a woman, or that you are somehow less of anything..

what you said in bold is perfectly true..

of course the next sentence could easily be..
who would not desire that affirmation? and that's what we are talking about..

[Sophora]

Perhaps this particular part of the forum should have a different title. Perhaps it should be titled "Crossdressers that think they are Transsexual". As a matter of fact I submit that to the moderator. It seems far more fitting. As Katlyn and the other Post-Op girls have said, many of you dont want to hear the harsh reality of life as it is. I myself am quite willing to offer my email address and possibly phone number if any of you need clarification. Furthermore I have a TON of pictures and video of me out in the real world living my life. I am beginning to wonder to what extent the people in this forum are actually even out of the closet at this point in thier lives. I mean really. Some of you honestly feel I am cruel, mean, a troll, and trying to discount you. I submit to you that many of your views are the same as what I would expect to see from a Crossdresser. Fantastical and not exactly realistic. As Katlin said she has seen so much disfunction and it comes from the people that arent willing to make a decision and execute it. Someone made a silly comment about why I no longer work for trans people. You could not pay me enough money to do that again! I could only take so much of the shit that I would hear. Chicks with dicks calling themselves transsexual out dating men and proud of it. Then comming to me crying because they got HIV/AIDS. Trans people telling me they were serious about transitioning but the backstory was they had been going to support groups telling this shit for 15 years and never doing anything but talking.

I once met a person that told me he was a cat. I stood there and said ok. My inner thought were "prove it". I doubt even some of the people here would agree that if someone told you they were a cat you would believe them. Now the same thing applies to you people that tell me your a woman. If you are a woman you need to prove it, because until you do I and the rest of the world wont believe you. Talk is cheap but actions are real!

I read this and what wow. I am still very early into this but I agree with this 100%. I seen a post in this thread about how the post-op are condescending but they aren't. They are right. I have seen posts stating that I am moving too fast, however I think am not. Maybe I am but you know what? I am moving at the speed that feels right for me. Yes, I am out at work but why shouldn't I be? I am female in mind and spirit(If I had the money I would be in body as well....well after going through the proper methods).

sorry for the mini-rant. Kate and every post-up female here. Please continue to post here. Your posts continue give me inspiration I need to continue down this path until I can finally afford SRS. Thank you.

[Katesback]

I dont think shes going to get it. I have tried to tell her as have other people but she keeps going back to the gender identity in the head thing.

i thought your english was fine..

pls melody if you quote somebody at least try to have an understanding of what she said.. pls show me where frances said SRS defines you as a woman, or that you are somehow less of anything..

what you said in bold is perfectly true..

of course the next sentence could easily be..
who would not desire that affirmation? and that's what we are talking about..

[Kathryn Martin]

This is one of the most fruitless debates of all times. I am TS. So what? How does that say anything about me other than that I experience myself as a woman in the biological body of a male. This body can be cosmetically altered so I can as an individual achieve the closest approximation in my appearance to what I am as is possible, and I am on track for that. The fact is that the construction of a vagina is the least of the procedures in terms of altering the biology of the body I was born with. Orchiectomy does more in that regard. The crowd that shouts you have to have surgery or die trying present a post est facto justification of their decision to complete this step towards the closest approximation they can achieve.

I know and have been so advised, that the surgery changes everything. Of course it does, but what it changes is NOT the fundamental biology or physiology of your body. It changes self perception and perception by others if they are lucky enough to to get to see the new hoohahs. The sooner everyone realizes this the sooner we are over this stupid, silly and ultimately boring debate about "proving" anything. I will be post -op probably by early spring next year, I know it will make a substantial, material and fundamental difference. But largely my female physiology to the extent it exists will continue to be created and maintained by hormones this body of mine cannot produce.

To the wannabe transsexuals I want to say this: transsexualism is a clearly defined condition, which includes the conviction that you are a woman born in a male body. The cure for it is unquestionably surgery and hormone treatment. The reason for surgery is an abhorrence and significant and material discomfort with biological organs of your body that make your body male. I similar abhorrence exists for those physiological functions of a male body that are considered secondary sex markers. If you prefer to retain your male organs then you are clearly gender variant and not transsexual unless very specific reasons prevent the major surgery, such as medical conditions that permit no surgery or complete inability to raise the funds. But frankly, I think funding is always a matter of time, because there is no real barrier if you want it enough. Just save until you are there.

I also don't think that post -op women are arrogant or lordly, they simply have been there done that. Does it make them better, NO! But it evidences their commitment to make themselves as close an approximation to the real woman as they can. And for that they deserve my respect and admiration.

[Melody Moore]

Oh I would also mention, one of the reasons why I spilt up with my ex-girlfriend is because she did not want
to be in a lesbian relationship with me because she was going to be worried about what her family would think.
So what happened there eh, if I was really still 'the same old guy' between the legs & on the inside?

My ex-girlfriend was not ashamed to be seen with me, but not in any sort of intimate way. For
awhile there we had a very discreet lesbian relationship, In public we were like two females who
were just good friends because she didn't want to come out of the closet about her hidden bisexuality.

My ex-girlfriend even told me that she realised that she had been in a relationship with a woman the
whole time even when I was with her as a male. She came to the realisation that the things that
interested me & all my mannerisms, emotions & the way I thought was all typically feminine. I was
not interested in the typical male type activities & far from the norm of the average male.

So if my ex-girlfriend knows me so intimately & she know I still have my 'boy bits'
then why did she feel like she would be exposed as a lesbian if we stayed together?

Could it be that as a natal female who also knew me intimately, that she really seen me as another woman?

To the wannabe transsexuals I want to say this: transsexualism is a clearly defined condition, which includes the conviction that you are a woman born in a male body. The cure for it is unquestionably surgery and hormone treatment.

Very true Kathryn & I have already covered this in my original posts with the definition about what is a transsexual,
however the need to have your gender identity disorder 'cured' is not a pre-requisite of being a transsexual. Some
people cannot take hormones or have SRS for many reasons, but this still doesn't mean they are not transsexual.

Even some of those who keep their boy bits because they promised their partners are really lying to
themselves. If the relationship ends then there is a strong chance that if they are truly TS then they
will desire to have SRS, but that still doesn't mean that it will be possible. I really wish SRS was free.

[Katesback]

Another interesting thing I noticed with people that claimed they were transsexual and did not have the money for surgery was all the material assest they often had. Yea I saw my fair share of them that had nice cars, pretty house, thousands of dollars in video games (video games seem to be the big thing with trans people, take me away to a different world), ect, ect.

Last time I checked SRS by competent doctors in Thailand starts around $10,000. Now add the airfare and hotel in and your still less than any decent economy car. So for many the money thing is not even an excuse if they really want SRS. Oh and spare me the argument that one has to go to Dr. Bowers because shes TS or the crap about going to a different country and how dangerous it is to get surgery there. Countless real TS women have gone to Thaland and come back happy.

Crap I paid more for FFS than I did for my entire trip to Thailand that included SRS, BA, and Lipo. Go figure.

Perhaps there really is some merrit in people like Hope suggesting I not be here. As time has gone by I like so many post-op girls have gotten tired of the insanity within the community. We actually made a decision and executed it and went on to live our lives as women. Perhaps I should just walk away from the trans community completely and entirely and leave them to fend for themselves. I really do like helping people but one cannot help someone whos glass is already full.

[Zenith]

I've been amazed at this thread having such legs.

SRS is in fact a very profound change for a classic Harry Benjamin transsexual. It is a big deal to us.

That being said, in no way should it be encouraged for all cases. Some do better with FFS and becoming more socially integrated, while maintaining their current orgasmic genitals.