Kate, I can already foresee the day when moving on from the trans community is the right thing to do. I have found personal individual help a better solution and who wants to be stuck in a time warp.
Kate, I can already foresee the day when moving on from the trans community is the right thing to do. I have found personal individual help a better solution and who wants to be stuck in a time warp.
"Never forget the many ways there are to be human" (The Transsexual Taboo)
First of all Kate not everyone has those types of assets & is in that situation, but it still doesn't mean a person cannotOriginally Posted by Katesback
transition as far as they can. If I owned my home I wouldn't hesitate borrow some money because I could with assets
like that. But also you should try borrowing that type of money if you are on welfare payments & you have no job Kate.
There is a new TS girl in my group who is currently homeless & staying in a shelter & some in my group are claiming she
is not TS because she hasn't started to transition yet despite being in our support group now for a few months. But I
can understand why she hasn't started her transitioning yet, she has to get herself settled & in a place where she feels
comfortable & secure. But having said that she has already been given hormones but still hadn't started taking them &
I asked her why. But I think she was expecting sudden changes where others she stayed with in the shelter would notice.
So I told her that the changes wont happen suddenly of overnight & noone would even notice for a long time. But if she
continues in not take her hormones then we will question if she is truly transsexual & wanting to transition. But I am in
no position to determine if a person is or is not truly transsexual without fully understanding every aspect of their life &
that is something I don't see is entirely possible & really cannot judge.
Labels & Definitions are only a guide to help others know where they fit in the
transgender spectrum & should only be applied by one-self - NOT by others!
Last edited by Melody Moore; 07-05-2011 at 06:49 PM.
I think I may be moving away from this forum...
This forum was a great resource to me, and I met a lot of wonderful people here. However, there is too much BS, too much arguing, too much preaching, too much ignorance. I can have discussions with transexuals and non-transexuals in person over these same topics, and never see as much irrationality, or complete lack of just TRYING to listen and understand, as I see here.
Maybe I'm just temporarily frustrated... I don't know if it will drive me away forever... but I'm done with this thread...
Maybe I'll just put people like Katesback and Pamela on my ignore list...
Thank god.I never sharred my personal views with these people because I was working in an official capacity but today I no longer do that.
OK. Your about as graceful at helping people as you are at roller skating.Perhaps I should just walk away from the trans community completely and entirely and leave them to fend for themselves.
I encourage you to stay, I've found many of your posts very enlightening and informative. I'm sure I'm not the only one. The arguing and BS is sadly a part of the internet culture here, and everywhere else. It's not always bad to disagree, sometimes a lot of information can be learned from healthy debate. From those that "troll" an ignore button is pretty solid solution.
Don't worry about it Bree. I can feel the love. In less than 2 weeks my pre journey will be done and I'm sure I won't want to stick around here any longer and deal with the abuse. I admit I fell into this category at times but the words are always true.
There are none so blind and those who will not see
"Willfully turning aside from the truth is treason to one's self." - Wizard's Tenth Rule:
"Life is the future, not the past." - Wizard's Seventh Rule
"Deserve victory." - Wizard's Eighth Rule
"Be justified in your convictions. Be completely committed. Earn what you want and need rather than waiting for others to give you what you desire."
There is just one life for each of us: our own - Words from a fortune cookie
Do or Do Not. There is no try - Yoda
So what of Ms. X. She is a full time transsexual with a great home operated small business. She is making money left and right and her transition is moving along swimmingly. She has her supply of hormones and is one big sale away from being able to set aside the cash for GRS.
Then in a horrible twist of fate her business product accidentally causes the death of one of her clients. She is sued for everything she ever had , down to the last dime. She has declared bankruptcy, lost her car, and is staying at a battered women's shelter for safety. Her financial bubble has burst and with the bankruptcy marring her credit, she can't afford the basics now such as rent, car, food. Her hopes of SRS are gone, she's not even sure how she is going to afford to get back on hormones.
If this Ms. X never has a chance to get the surgery done now please enlighten me as to how she is not transsexual?
It's just a nub of flesh that at some point was either going to form into a penis or a vagina. I for one do not want this penis, but I do not hate it and certainly don't let it define me. Rational genetic men and women don't define themselves by their genitals. That'd be like defining who you are inside by your muscles...and some men do that and people look at them as shallow and vain.
That being said, will I be doing everything in the next five years to get my SRS done? Yes I will. I will make it happen come hell or high water. But it's going to be because it is for me personally and not because I feel like I have to complete the operation to live up to a superficial label.
Do people read here? Is English the correct language. NOT ONE PERSON HERE SAID THAT someone had to get SRS to be transsexual. You need to go back and re read the whole point of the discussion because I have a feeling you lost focus!
your english is fine
About this thread and what it has degenerated in to heres a thought who cares!
If you want SRS get it! if not don't if you want to call yourself a TS go ahead no one will stop you. if you don't like that someone calls themselves TS great! we are all entitled to our own opinions. if you want to date pre op have fun! use a condom. if you want to wait thats fine too. If you want to pee standing up great! but if its in my house you'd better be poking me with your thing! otherwise pee out side or sit down. If you want to think your a cat then you probably need psychotherapy, sorry but that is just weird.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 07-05-2011 at 11:29 PM.
Yikes Kaitlyn you came loaded for bear this time.
I think it's easy to see why I like you and it has nothing to do with how adorable I may be. ;-) You may not have noticed, but you exhibit a lot more finesse than the rest of your team. I really don't have a problem with your position. You are certainly welcome to your feelings and opinions and they are every bit as valid as I claim mine to be. Perhaps more so in regard to SRS since I haven't any first hand experience to speak of. I never said SRS wasn't a worthy goal and I certainly never said it was unnecessary. I also never said that I WANTED my pickle. I said I have one, and I'm okay with it. We've come to an agreement.
What keeps my fingers clacking in this thread is the blatant attempt to minimize my struggle or my accomplishments simply because I reported that SRS doesn't happen to be a priority. Why? I don't know exactly, but right now I feel like my gender confirmation will come from being accepted as a woman by the outside world. If I had the vag right now, I doubt I would feel more womanly than I already do, but I know it wouldn't help me pass better. I'm not full time yet principally because I have another year left of hair removal and I don't want to be the bearded lady. Similarly, what advantage does being a dude with a hooha bring me? I've said it before, I may indeed go all the way someday. Is it killing me to have a dangler? Not at all, I made peace with that thing many years ago.
I don't see anyone devaluing the surgery, these girls are reacting to the rather rude assertion that they must FEEL a certain way in order to be considered "real". Kate's point wasn't what you do, it's what you WANT to do. I reject out of hand anybody's assertion that I feel one way or another about anything. I'll feel the way I feel and that's the end of it. The funny thing about out Trans people, is that we have decided that we will finally live our lives by our own rules and I don't care who thinks they know better, I will follow my bliss and create the life I see in my heart. There are people who support me, and people who don't. I find it much more productive to spend time with the positive people, life is hard enough as it is. Why would someone put arbitrary obstacles in their own way just to satisfy the whims of the self appointed guardians of whatever?
What exactly is Kate saying that I need to hear? That I'm not TS? It's been said over and over and I get it, the post-ops don't think I'm TS. Now what? I'm not arguing to get the tattoo. I'm arguing that I know I feel and how I've felt my whole life. Everything about me is feminine. I've wished I was born a girl since I can remember. I honestly don't know what that is supposed to make me but I'll be damned if someone else is gonna tell me who I am, I've done that already.
I was born this way, I never got to decide if this is what I wanted but I deal with it the best way I can. If someone doesn't like my style, what can I do? I am who I am. If you people want to marginalize or negate me, I'm sure you'll understand if I'm not impressed. Show me something I haven't seen already.
This comment says everything. It's stunnning in its arrogance.
Melissa if you aren't even full time, as you state, then you have much to learn. SRS indeed makes our way in the world and our self image better...
Last edited by Zenith; 07-06-2011 at 01:32 AM.
Melissa it is totally ok for you to want to be a chick with a penis. It is ok for you to think you can date STRAIGHT men. It is ok for you to say your transgender. It is ok for you to want to live the way you wish. What is not ok is for you to call yourself transsexual (or a woman for that matter) if you are not willing to do what it takes to ACTUALLY be one.
Crossdressers go to great lengths to present to the world this image of a woman, but that does not make them a woman. A woman is born a woman and women dont have penises. A woman with a penis is going to want to correct that because its NOT supposed to be there. I assure you that that any woman including a transsexual that became aware of your desire to present a woman but keep your peinis is NOT going to be seen as a woman.
Come to think of it a cis woman could say that post op girls are not women because they dont have ovaries and a uterus. Well I tell you what if they invented the ability to have those I would be in line! I would do it because thats what being a woman is.
Katie
Last edited by Katesback; 07-06-2011 at 12:46 AM.
No One Definition of Transsexual
What I was trying to say, in a nutshell, is that there is probably no one definition of transsexual that fits all cases. This is a twentieth century insight in philosophy. I think paying attention to this would resolve some of the conflicts here.
I'm getting dizzy.
Time for a change.
LALady, you are not alone
Melissa, you made some very powerful points here & ironically a few people here arguing against you
have also preached this very same philosophy to others here on this forum. In fact some of the post-op
girls here claim that transitioning really only happens after SRS. But I beg to differ because the biggest
part of transitioning is in accepting yourself for who you truly are & like you said, the great confirmation
comes when the outside world accepts you as a woman.
Something else I come to realise about my own transitional journey is the fact that I started living
full-time as a female before I started on hormones whereas not many others ever transition this way.
Most transsexuals I know go on hormones for a period of time then transition. So it's a bit like you Mel,
I wanted to feel at ease & comfortable & have that affirmation from the outside world that I would be
accepted as a woman to help me know that I was making the right decision. So this is why I choose the
unusual path of living full-time as a female before starting any type of life changing treatment or surgery.
There is no defined path or rules to follow in transitioning & we all have our hurdles to overcome along the way.
But as far as I am concerned Melissa, I believe that you are a transsexual woman regardless of what other people
say because you have had a gender identity disorder all your life & also have a genuine desire to be a 'woman' who
doesn't care what is between your legs. I just wish I could be so content about extra 'dangly bit'.
My enlarged & oversized clitoris has caused me an extreme amount of discomfort all my life & I would so like to get it
reduced in size & to have my vaginal canal reopened, but they don't cover any of this under the public health system
here in Australia. So my only option is SRS over in Thailand. So unless Kate is willing to donate me the money, then I
don't see exactly when I can get my SRS. Because at this point of time I don't have a job & any means to raise revenue
& come up with the funds.
Additionally I think Kate should also check the cost of SRS in Thailand because most surgeons have put up their prices
because of the collapse of the US dollar. To me SRS is very important & I want it done right because you only get one
shot at this. So the only way I am going to have SRS is with the surgeon I choose because of their expertise in SRS/GRS
& not because they had the best deal. Also I believe that Dr Suporn now charges around $17,500 US & then there are
airfares & accommodation to also pay for, bringing the total cost up to about $22,000 for SRS/GRS in Thailand.
So Kate, being as rich as you are then you would have that amount of money laying around your mansion
in loose change yeah? So maybe you wouldn't mind helping by paying for my final affirmation surgery yeah?
especially since you believe that all women like me who were born with penises like me should have SRS yeah?
Last edited by Melody Moore; 07-06-2011 at 04:10 AM.
Not one person except you, more then once. ....phew....and here I was thinking I couldn't read my native language anymore.
Oh yeah?
I think you have said just that...
You have defined what it means to be a woman to suit your life situation and have used this OPINION to marginalize those who may be on a different path.
Newsflash Kate, there are MANY out there in the cis-world who would argue that YOU are NOT a woman, and for that matter, that none of us are. It doesn't matter what's in our heads and hearts, nor what hormones might be injected into us. Surgery, in their opinion, doesn't make a woman. None of this does because at the end of the day we're all a bunch of messed-up-in-the-head individuals who need to obtain a reality check rather than a vagina.
With so many haters out there who believe such things, why on Earth is it so important for you to spread such a similar brand of intolerance? Even worse is that it's under the guise of helping those who are on the true path towards womanhood (hmmm, sounds like a pattern that can be seen elsewhere in society, eh?).
Accepting a given, that most, if not all of us participating here fit the DSM IV criteria to be considered TS (a basic commonality that we share), each of us has a unique set of life circumstances which then goes to define the path that we take from here on out. Melissa's situation is unique and she owns it. Gosh knows Melody's is as well, as is all of ours including those who may be on a more traditional path towards SRS. And speaking for myself, I have created a family which demands that I stay on a middle path, one that I have to accept for the sake of all concerned regardless of the fact that my own struggle can often be measured by the minute or hour. So perhaps that puts me on a lower rung on your trans totem pole but guess what? When all is said and done there is little else that defines a woman more than putting the needs of others before your own needs.
Yet I'm not going to run around telling everyone that I am a woman, even though what resides in my head and heart is nothing but. That'd be low hanging fruit, even for you Kate. But I'll be darned if I'm going to sit back and accept your definition that anyone on a path remotely similar to mine, or anyone who chooses not to pursue SRS, is nothing but a glorified crossdresser. Last I checked, the DSM-Kate has yet to be adopted.
Like a corpse deep in the earth I'm so alone, restless thoughts torment my soul, as fears they lay confirmed, but my life has always been this way - Virginia Astley, "Some Small Hope" (1986)
Sunlight falls, my wings open wide. There's a beauty here I cannot deny - David Sylvian, "Orpheus" (1987)
I guess I have to accept Kate is right. I will no longer call myself a woman. I wont use the female toilets. Ill use the mens. Hopefully I wont get bashed or raped. If I get called she by anyone Ill correct them and tell them I have a penis.
... [SIZE="2"]One perfect day[/SIZE]
You all can make fun all you want, but quite honestly this line of thinking can lead to dangerous situations.
Following the lead, I hung a sign on the door this morning that read, "Caution, be prepared to stop ahead, VJ inspection station." It didn't quite go over as well as one might imagine.
Bottom line, if those cisgender women want to be accepted as women, they need to stop hitting like men! Oooouuuch!
P.S. Did you know hormones make you bruise easier?
"Love anything and your heart will be wrung and possibly broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact you must give it to no one, not even an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements. Lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket, safe, dark, motionless, airless, it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable, irredeemable. To love is to be vulnerable."
You sing it and I'll hum along
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
No Zenith, I'm only halfway through the process. I have another year of HRT and hair removal before I will feel comfortable with a full time fem presentation. I AM full time in the sense that most people know I'm trans because I'm fairly open about it.
I agree I have much to learn about pretty much everything but I never said that SRS wasn't wonderful or even necessary for the mental health of some girls. I just said that I may not be doing it.
Seems crazy that it caused such consternation, but some people have a real problem being shut out of other people's life choices I guess.
Melissa, you invited us in!
I think it was the hey i got it all figured out pose you struck in the OP that drew my attention..
I think you are well positioned for what it's worth, and i hope this works out and gives you everything you've always wanted.
That is very sweet Kaitlyn, thank you.
Isn't it nice that we can occupy both sides of an issue while still respecting each other? I for one really appreciate the example of vigorous yet polite discourse you've shown the forum.
As one who, barring a financial and medical miracle, will not be able to have SRS, FFS or even HRT, I nonetheless understand that acquiring a working neovagina with all the trimmings must be an absolutely earth-shaking experience, and one which I frankly envy. I would love to have a sex organ that matched my brain, and that accomodated my heart's desire to take a lover into my body rather than to skewer her.
I would love to have full breasts of my own, and flowing hair of my own, and--why not?--long legs, broad hips and slim hands, and all the other primary and secondary characteristics I lack. What I've got is an aging, fairly androgynous body and a brain that is dying to go for broke.
So every day I stress about how I'm going to cope with the pressure coming from within me to say f*** it all and ignore all the things I don't have and can't do and just start living as a lonely, homely, dumpy, senior womanoid with a grandiose clitoris and overstuffed labias. I bet I'm not the only one, either.
Time for a change.
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