To the members that make negative comments about living in the closet.

[PretzelGirl]

We always see tidbits of this kind of attitude both from group members in that you are not out.... you are not passable.... you are not <insert just about anything>. This is a support group and support can be loving and support can also include tough love. But it doesn't include putdowns (and there is a distinction between tough love and putdowns).

But there also is a flip-side (and this is not directed at you Suzy). We do need to not be so sensitive. Sometimes things get taken out of context and someone gets angry before it is clarified. A statement may not be about non-support, but can be misconstrued. So a few deep breaths when reading things here can sometimes be helpful.

[suzy1]

A good point Sue, but you have not read some of the comments that have directly criticised members like me. Acusing us of being scared to come out, or are not supporting the other crossdressers for not coming out. I even had a P.M saying that I was relying on all the wonderful members that were out fighting for us and I was hiding and not doing what I should be doing in supporting them.
Its funny but I really don’t get wound up by much but this really got under my skin for a bit.
No, this is not tough love this is a big put down.
And why is it sooooooooooooo difficult to understand the simple point that some of us just have no need or desire to go out dressed. That it’s got nothing to do with being scared. And yet it seems to be beyond there mentality to grasp this simple fact. Like a bit of there brain is missing or something?
I was not going to add anymore to this post and here I am again.
[This was not directed at you either Sue]

Hugs, SUZY

[PretzelGirl]

No, this is not tough love this is a big put down.

I agree. And sometimes the flames get fanned in PMs like you say and no one else sees the cause of someone expressing their feelings.

[This was not directed at you either Sue]

I do hope that I always show support. It is my intent.

[Pythos]

Well, these are my thoughts on the subject.

If CDing was as accepted as say a big male walking around in "gang banger" garb, looking menacing and tough, would there really ever have been a reason to be "in the closet" in the first place?

I don't see many people wearing the thug garb only when at home. I see them quite freely for the most part out and about. But what we are doing is deviant, and to some un-educated people...evil.

So when I see that people here prefer to keep things at home, I have no choice but to respect that decision, but as always my mind works on the reasoning for that decision. Would that decision even be a factor if crossdressing was acceptable social behavior?

I personally do not think the closet would even be a residence for us if crossdressing was indeed acceptable. If we were not shamed for what we do. If people in general did not think we were harming their children's impressionable minds, (yet people going around looking like thugs is perfectly OK for a little kid to see).

I understand why one feels safe, believe me. I am finding myself hiding a bit too much for my comfort.

[juno]

I love to see someone with the freedom of expression to be themselves without fear, whether it is gender diversity or anything else. I am proud of those who get out. There is also nothing wrong with the decision to stay at home, or even to keep it secret due to fear of discovery. That is not a fault of that person, but of society. There can be negative consequences depending on your living situation. In fact, keeping it at home may give CDing a good perspective to that persons friends who know, because they realize that some "perfectly normal" people are transgender.

Most importantly, we all need to be supportive of each other. If we can't maintain a positive attitude, how will be ever convince the rest of society to be positive about gender diversity??

[Debra Russell]

I am out and about freely but am not knowagably a CDer to to only a few; so does that make me closeted to a degree? yes I think so -- I would be out dressed today but I didn't get up early enough to get out-so I am still closeted to some that will not understand but I am happy with where I am although more understanding would be nice. I am not sure what it matters why and to what degree anyone is in the closet or how deep -- to another aspect of being in the closet I personally know of one that should be in the closet, just like the guy in underwear trying to get on a plane he is an embarressment to all -- no matter how he feels. Those who don't want to come at all or any further than they are for what ever reasons are on this forum and should be supported and encouraged.............Debra

[DonniDarkness]

Here is the point that many of us are missing...

PEOPLE CROSSDRESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

The whole of our group has many different styles of crossdressing. Some are inclined to be as feminine as possible with the sole purpose to Pass as Genetic women. Yet, on the flip side of this coin there are the fetish kids whose sole purpose is sexual expression. Some are couples who Crossdress together and dont share their crossdressing with anyone else, for them it is their "thing" that they share together. Some choose to go to towns far away so that they may avoid the consequences of being outed by other people they know for the sole reason of not complicating their lives any more then necessary. Some are only interested in ONE article of clothing, would you suggest that they come out to the world because they happen to like something to the extent of just Pantyhose....when the rest of their lives they have no other vices within crossdresing at all.

People will always throw stones at those they fear upset the idea of conformity. Just because we are all crossdressers does not mean we all have to crossdress the same way for the same reasons.

If you find yourself judging another based on how, when or where they crossdress then you are really what is wrong with this support community

-Donni-

ps.

I personally know of one that should be in the closet, just like the guy in underwear trying to get on a plane he is an embarressment to all

See this is exactly what im talking about..... Judging him based on what he choose to wear to the airport is completely unfair....if it were Kim Kardashian boarding that flight in her lingerie then no one would have a problem at all, but because he is presenting male and wearing revealing clothing he is tossed to the wolves by his fellow crossdressers......typical BS

[Olivia2]

Here is the point that many of us are missing...

PEOPLE CROSSDRESS FOR DIFFERENT REASONS.

The whole of our group has many different styles of crossdressing. Some are inclined to be as feminine as possible with the sole purpose to Pass as Genetic women. Yet, on the flip side of this coin there are the fetish kids whose sole purpose is sexual expression. Some are couples who Crossdress together and dont share their crossdressing with anyone else, for them it is their "thing" that they share together. Some choose to go to towns far away so that they may avoid the consequences of being outed by other people they know for the sole reason of not complicating their lives any more then necessary. Some are only interested in ONE article of clothing, would you suggest that they come out to the world because they happen to like something to the extent of just Pantyhose....when the rest of their lives they have no other vices within crossdresing at all.

People will always throw stones at those they fear upset the idea of conformity. Just because we are all crossdressers does not mean we all have to crossdress the same way for the same reasons.

If you find yourself judging another based on how, when or where they crossdress then you are really what is wrong with this support community

-Donni-

Can someone give me an Amen!

[cordgrass]

Well, I am not going to say that I condemn those who stay in the closet, but I sincerely do wish that more non-passable CD's were out. It would have saved me a lot of heartache. I didn't know that crossdressers were as common as they are, and from all I had learned from TV and movies was that the few who were out there were all super gay. Also a lot of the ones out there have had plastic surgery to make themselves look very much like women.

I'm the sort of woman who is attracted to non-passable crossdressers and I didn't even know it was a dating option until recently. I'm not saying it's as extreme as being born straight and never meeting someone of the opposite sex, but I really do wish that more non-passable crossdressers went out and about.

[MaidInCan]

Anne what an excellent response to those that would ridicule. Most of us accept the others on this site for what they have chosen to do. No one is perfect and I doubt there is such a person as a perfect CD. We are on this sight to exchange thoughts and ideas, to support where support may be needed (and not imposed on those we try to help) and to learn. Although I don't post a lot (am basically shy by nature) I do learn a lot from others whether I agree with them or not. It is always wise to consider those other thoughts. My maxim is that you can always learn something from each person because each person is unique and you are never too old to learn. Diverse opinions are a good educator. So keep on striving for your own goals, ladies and be that person you want to be whether in or out of the closet.

[msginaadoll]

I think what I see in the original post is just a call for respect for descision that may be different than yours. That is never a bad thing. We all our individuals with differing situations. The trouble comes when I judge others based on my situation. I'm for celebrating our individuality.

[SweetIonis]

If CDing was as accepted as say a big male walking around in "gang banger" garb, looking menacing and tough, would there really ever have been a reason to be "in the closet" in the first place?

Pythos there are people who don't accept either. And personally I find that whole gang bang thing to be quite repulsive.

[Frédérique]

Time and time again I read members [usually the same ones over and over again] criticising other members for not coming out to the world.
If I started to criticise all the members that went out dressed, saying they were not helping our case by going out in a women’s dress I would get attacked from all sides! [I don’t think like that by the way]
This is a support group. How about supporting me and all the others that do not go out, not because we are scared but because we choose not to. Or like me have no need to. I will support you, all of you. How about supporting me!

[SIZE="2"]I’ll support you, Suzy, along with every other member on this site; even those who think we closeted creatures somehow do a disservice to crossdressing. As far as I’m concerned, we’re all equal in some inexplicable way, so why look for (and magnify) distinctions?

Back in the “good” old days, I was completely unaware of the transgendered community we are now so much a part of. I can see how more intrepid members (individuals, all) might feel like MtF closeted crossdressers are a “drag,” but this (CD’ing) is NOT an easy thing to accomplish, or even attempt in the first place – everyone is different in their approach, or level of comfort…

In the case of the closet-dwellers, it may make sense to “skirt” the issue and avoid censure. I don’t see crossdressing as some type of competition. I’m just happy to dress when I can, and be here among the more accomplished members. And, reading between the lines, I can detect a lot of sympathy, or a need for sympathy, emanating from the words chosen by nearly every member who takes the time to write. This universal condition cries for support LOUD and clear, regardless of what “variation” of crossdresser you may be…
[/SIZE]

[eluuzion]

Criticism is an indirect form of self-boasting.
Dr. Emmit Fox

Well I have found people to be very open to others’ ideas, opinions and lifestyles,
...as long as they match their own.

Discounting another persons' actions, lack of action or commitment level to any issue is often a dysfunctional attempt to rationalize and justify your own decisions and behavior.

You don't have to join a circus to be a clown.
You don't have to become a lawyer to be a liar.
You don't have to tell outright lies to be a liar.
You don't have to be a martyr to be a member.
You don't have to do it all to be successful.
You don't have to be the biggest to be the best.
Everybody has the right to voice their opinions.
Everybody deserves due respect for having their own opinions.
Everybody has personal expectations.
Nobody is required to accept others’ opinions and expectations as absolute facts or standards.

You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.


It is better to offer a hand than to point a finger...

just my thoughts.

[Georgia Rose]

It would be nice if we all lived in a perfect world where we could all do what we wanted and no one would criticize or ridicule. However that is not the case. As a CDer I dress at hyome with my wife's knowledge and agreement. I've told one friend (female) in a drunken moment but that is all. I'm happy that way and see no reason to change it, except it minor ways. I've also worked out that while a number of people would possibly give me a hard time if I was more public with CDing they would give my wife a harder time. Why would I want that? I've found this forum to be a great support for expressing feelings and views. I like to feel I could support fellow CDers whether they want to stay indoors and get out in the world. We are all different and that's is what makes us special. As an aside today was the first day I've gone out wearing a bra (with inserts) and worn a bra all day. Pretty low key but something I've wanted to do. Don't think I'll be going much further but who knows. We all grow & develop!

[Frédérique]

You don't have to join a circus to be a clown.
You don't have to become a lawyer to be a liar.
You don't have to tell outright lies to be a liar.
You don't have to be a martyr to be a member.
You don't have to do it all to be successful.
You don't have to be the biggest to be the best.
Everybody has the right to voice their opinions.
Everybody deserves due respect for having their own opinions.
Everybody has personal expectations.
Nobody is required to accept others’ opinions and expectations as absolute facts or standards.
You don't have to be wrong for me to be right.
It is better to offer a hand than to point a finger...

[SIZE="2"]Well said, my friend, but it feels like you’re pointing a finger at us by telling us NOT to point finger at others. No finger pointing, please – males do that a lot...

I was going to mention that, when I joined this site, I did not have to jump through any hoops to gain entrance to the transgendered community. Suddenly...BOOM...and I was among all the people I saw during my “lurking” period. I never had to answer a questionnaire, I never had to fill out a form, or be inspected like an automobile – I was accepted because I AM a crossdresser, one of many variants of this human “condition,” a societal outsider, an individual, a fetishist, a round peg in a square hole, a sissy, a pervert, a deviant, and a closeted experimenter...

If I was a liar, I wouldn’t waste my time writing anything about crossdressing, nor would I seek out a site like this in the first place. If I was a clown, or a martyr, it would be plainly revealed in everything I write. If I was immensely successful passing as a female, I would no doubt relate my tales to the gathered throng and bask in the glow of acceptance. If I was the biggest, I wouldn’t be here – I would be out THERE, unconcerned with supporting those who are either just beginning, or those who are feeling a bit wobbly about their passion. Speaking of passion, it all boils down to compassion – aren’t we supposed to be sensitive to the feelings of others? Operating from that “platform,” I refuse to espouse opinions about other crossdressers simply because I don’t have any. I assume we’re all different, and I go from there, running my little flags of considered prose up the imaginary flagpole to see who salutes. Of course, I’m saluting YOU, the gathering of crossdressers in their varied splendor, in case you weren’t aware of that. Next to you, or YOU, I have very little to offer, but I offer it anyway in the hope that we can all get along in this rudimentary shelter at the edge of society... [/SIZE]

[drushin703]

Thanks Susy for the wonderful post:
for me it has been about two years since coming out of the closet.I, like many on this forum, was happy and content just dressing
and dancing in front on the mirror in my bedroom. I was often confused and dumfounded by what I thought was a beautiful girl looking back
at me, approving....smiling.But when the courage came over me and I finally left the house, I found out that criticism and scurtiny was
right in front of every step I took.As Frederique said, "this cding is not an easy thing to accomplish".EVERYONE, everywhere (and ime not
being selfconsious) wants to see the drag queen.Lets face it, we are quite the curiosity. So Susy, I love your cincerity and I do agree
that being closeted has its place. I remember it quite fondly.
Going out of the house dressed as in womens cloths is not bravery, it is the absence of it.In face it is absence of all human qualities
and emotions.We are like the streakers of the 1980s only we are walking slowly (three inch heels lol) so folks can get a good look at us.
But for me the line has been crossed.I DID walk out the door, and got in the car, and went into a public place, and interacted with others,
and dranked a pepsi, and talked and finally allowed my heart to stop racing.Now I cant go back.Once your out of the house you can
never go back in..folks would miss me............people would call my phone....dana.

[NicoleScott]

The decision to go out in public or come out of the closet (those are two different things) can be based on much more than passability. Sadly, some of us would lose jobs, friends, and even family by coming out of the comfort and safety of the closet, no matter how passable we think we are. That's just the reality. I know I would lose my job. Coming out for the cause of public acceptance of crossdressing would not a prudent thing to me to do for the sake of my family. But the "everyone out" types say that sacrifices must be made.... It's the old "if you didn't vote then you can't complain" argument.
If you don't give a damn about my well-being (that is, what's in the best interest of me and my family), why should I give a damn about your public acceptance? After all, I'm happy in the closet, and public acceptance only helps you, not me. But if we're all in this together, then let's try to serve everybody's interest.
Those who have come out on your own terms must allow others to come out on theirs, if at all.
I agree with "show me the door, but don't push me through it".

[kimdl93]

I generally prefer positive comments - who doesn't, but at the same time, it seems to me that the point of a discussion board is to hear various points of view. One can't and shouldn't expect everyone to agree on every subject. One need not discourteous to dissent, of couse.

[Iskandra]

Why would i care about public acceptance when the person I love most is still learning to accept, how can I get others to understand when I myself am still working on understanding fully..
How can I make the public feel comfortable around me when i don't feel comfortable around the public?
When I bought my first skirt, there was no tag on it saying, "if you are a crossdresser you must wear this in public for he good of the 'cause'!"
But if it had the rebel in me would have paid no heed!

You don't like it.. well thank you for caring, coz I don't give a rats rear if you go out, wish to go out, or like me stay in.. all I care about is people who give as much respect and consideration as I'd love to give them!

Actually, ignore me, just consider those close to me and you have my respect, for they are my first and formost cause... I you can not understand that, then you are a very lonely person indeed!!

[Inna]

No former training in transgender psychology, so my statement should not be valued as anything else than just that, uneducated, however observant and hopefully intellectual strive at understanding subconscious mechanisms.

I totally support and sympathize with your statement and desire to be accepted as we all need in so many different ways, Suzy! Acceptance is the most primal of feelings and desires, developed over thousands of years of our human and pre-human history resulting in the tribal societies of today. But also as a byproduct of such acceptance, we have developed need to equalize and compartmentalize otherwise fluid and vast pool of character and expression.

You are a closeted crossdresser, nothing wrong with that! You get peed off when someone makes the case of it and tells you, you are doing it all wrong, Hell, I think everyone would get peed off. "I want to live my life the way I want to live it and if I do not hurt any one I should be left alone", have you heard this one before. I did countless times, and statement is true.

Now, the intriguing thing, this is all good and fine and self expression should be left alone, because it is just that, "self expression", however, if statements of "you should this or you should that", drive you literally up the wall then you could be expressing dissatisfaction with your own self through subconscious. Hyper sensitivity is often an expression of subconscious storm brewing within. Sometimes, or rather, most of the time we are unaware of such turmoil and do not understand it ourselves.

Now, please, this is just a theoretical blah, blah, blah, and if you read this, do not take it as directed at anything. I truly believe in your statement of freedom of expression and being just your self.
All this is a very sensitive subject and it can surely create a lot of tension and anxiety. And for most, I want to believe that others by telling you, "oh, you should go out" are just trying to help the best they can, because of their own experiences, of course there are also some that may be simply in your face, I am wright, galls and that would be crud.

To tell you the truth, you look amazing and your body is phenomenal so when one sees such a beauty and non of ya is shared with the outside world, then one can simply not only get jealous but try to be encouraging so that you can amaze some passers by, with your presence.

All in love, Inna

[suchacutie]

Thank you Donni...a wonderful post.

It is really sad that anyone would even think of criticizing how any of us express our feminine selves. There can be no point to it except to inflate the criticizer's ego. Sad

tina

[VeronicaMoonlit]

Hiding in the closet and not going outside the house are two different things. Stay in, dress as you like but don't moan about how the world treats you, don't complain about how your wife won't accept you and don't rail about how women get "more" than you do.

Right. While I often say that "closets are for clothes, not people." and have often said that openness about "this thing of ours of varying kinds" with our loved ones is a good thing, and that going out in public is in general, also a good thing...I'm not the sort of person to hold a gun to ones head.

I don't think many here deny you the right to stay home. That usually isn't the issue. You want equality and rights? Then be willing to be out and do something about it

Right, it's as I say to those who say they'd lose their job or friends....if that's the case then do SOMETHING to help make things better for the next generation, so they won't have the same problems we did/do.

However, personally, I don't buy the "We remain in the closet because it's our preference" statement. It's your preference because of all the potential risks. If I were in a cage surrounded by hungry wolverines raised on a strict diet of tranny meat, It would be perfectly reasonable that my preference is to stay in the cage. But I see no reason to pretend that the cage is just so awesome that I'd rather stay in it whether the wolverines were there or not. That's possible, but it just isn't likely.

I like that phrasing of the issue VERY much...well said, Oh Purple One of Comedy.

The decision to go out in public or come out of the closet (those are two different things) can be based on much more than passability.

Yes indeed, they are two different things, I consider the second (to immediate family) to be more important than the first.

Sadly, some of us would lose jobs, friends, and even family by coming out of the comfort and safety of the closet, no matter how passable we think we are.

First off, I have to say, you can never be "absolutely" sure....people can surprise us. One of the reasons I didn't come out to my immediate family for years was that I was afraid and doubted their love for me. I was wrong and it made them sad that I had doubted them so. Any any person who would de-friend me because I'm transgendered is someone I wouldn't want to have as a friend in the first place.

I know I would lose my job.

Okay then...are you absolutely sure about that? Yes, you can be mostly sure....but sometimes our pessimism gets the better of us and we imagine worse outcomes than what will actually happen. It happened to me as described above. And lets just say it would happen...wouldn't it be a good thing to work for changes so that you WOULDN"T have to worry about your job? What if the knowledge that you're a CD got accidentally disclosed? And also, why work for an employer that would fire you for "This thing of ours of varying kinds"? Personally, I wouldn't. Why not work for one who wouldn't?

Coming out for the cause of public acceptance of crossdressing would not a prudent thing to me to do for the sake of my family.

Here's the thing....I want it to be so that you wouldn't have to worry.

But the "everyone out" types say that sacrifices must be made.... It's the old "if you didn't vote then you can't complain" argument.

Sacrifices must be made..but there are things you can do to make things better WITHOUT coming out. For you can vote in ways that encourages diversity and tolerance.

If you don't give a damn about my well-being (that is, what's in the best interest of me and my family), why should I give a damn about your public acceptance?

Because if having "this thing of ours of varying kinds" was to become "not a big deal" then you wouldn't have to worry about your job/friend/family, and thusly it WOULD be in your best interests. An example being the accidental disclosure I mentioned above.

Veronica

[Billie Jean]

I think what I see in the original post is just a call for respect for descision that may be different than yours. That is never a bad thing. We all our individuals with differing situations. The trouble comes when I judge others based on my situation. I'm for celebrating our individuality.

Thats exactly right. We all should feel free to express ourselves as want. To the sisters that are still in the closet, I just recently came out of it and the light is bright and still scares me from time to time. I still haven't come out to many people that I know and want to keep it that way for now.Billie Jean

[Elle1946]

Lucky for me I don't live in a closet but I do live in a home, also I have a high fenced in back yard. It is where my wife and I feel most comfortable. I underdress when out in public. Being comfortable with whom you are and where you are is important. I live my life the way I desire and others can live theirs the way they want to, which is the way it should be.