Closeted Crossdressers Lack "GUTS" and a "SACK." Or do We?

[Anne2345]

I am a MtF crossdresser, and I choose to be in the closet. But why am I in the closet? Do I lack “guts” and a “sack?” In a thread started by Pythos (“Who here hates hiding?”), a member stated that those that hide, i.e., those in the closet such as I, lack “guts” and a “sack.”

In response to Pythos’ legitimate, well-thought out and well-intentioned question, I responded, in essence, that although I love my closet, and am happy within it, that there are certain things I would enjoy doing in public, such as keeping my body hairless and smooth during the summer, and displaying my painted toes in public that I do not do. In response, the following was posted:

There's only one reason why anyone can't keep their body smooth and toes painted... guts.

In response to this member, I explained that “guts” was not the issue, rather the real issue for me is my “reality,” – i.e., I have a job and a family to think about above and beyond my own selfish desires. And such “selfish desires,” in the context I have written, presumes I have desire to dress in public. Incidentally, but of no consequence to this post, I do not. I am quite happy within my closet.

Regardless, my abbreviated explanation was met with further insult. Specifically, the response to my post stated:

Your entire argument is built on the premise that you'd be "throwing it all away." I say your premise is false.

Stay in the closet, Anne. It's CDs like you that create and perpetuate the very situation you lament.

I just drove home from work in denim short shorts, shaved legs and pink toenails. I stopped for gas, a cold drink, went to the grocery store and went to check my mail after I got home. Every day, people become MORE aware of CDs because of me. What are YOU doing for us?

In yet another response, the very same member went on to state “We would suffer less ridicule [if we all came out] . . . . But that's not going to happen until some people grow some sack.”

So is this where the closeted crossdressing community is? Are we really comprised of gutless, sackless girls? I know some here would argue what’s the point of having a “sack” in the first place, but I digress . . . .

Seriously, though, since I have joined this forum in March, I have seen and participated in this argument before. Heck, I even unwittingly started such an argument, having no idea whatsoever that there were crossdressers out there that despised me because I am in the closet.

But why am I really in the closet? Fortunately, I know the answer to my own question. I am in the closet because I love my closet, I have an accepting wife, I live in a community that would discriminate against me, both my career and my wife’s career would by in jeopardy, I have a six year old child that I would prefer not to be bullied in the school yard because of me, I have bills to pay, I have friends that I would prefer to keep, I would prefer to maintain my years of work and effort in networking among various people and businesses, and I have no desire to share this part of myself with others, with the exception of this otherwise wonderful forum.

Despite the unfortunate belief of some here, not every crossdresser has a desire to express herself in public. I am one such crossdresser. Oddly enough, I also just happen to love myself, accept myself, and thrive within the life I have created for myself. What more can I ask for?

Noticeably absent from my list of reasons why I choose not to leave the closet, however, if you take the time to review my list, you will note that I have not listed that I suffer from a lack of “guts” or a “sack.”

So in this, how am I, or any of my other closeted sisters, the target of such hateful, vicious stones thrown by other crossdressers? Such militant crossdressers may claim that they “love” all, and want the “best” for all, but who are they to determine what is best for each individual crossdresser? Last time I checked, I do not recall voting for a Supreme Crossdresser. Do they want what is best for all, or do they selfishly want what is best for themselves? Unless I am completely missing something, and I do not believe I am, it makes absolutely no sense to me.

I, for one, support all members of the transgendered community, whether in the closet or out in the open. We have it hard enough as it is without engaging in such internal fighting and squabbles, do we not?

And as for what I am doing for the likes of those crossdressers that chastise me for not coming out of my closet, what do I owe such a group in the first place? I owe them nothing! This is my life, and I shall live my life according to how I deem fit. I am a crossdresser, and I am quite proud to be one. But this does not mean that I also have to be a martyr, or sign up for a life of transgender activism.

For those of you that are out and about in public, doing what you believe will help the community as a whole, I thank you, and appreciate your efforts. Truly, I do. But please do not cross the line by attempting to recruit me, or any of my other closet dwelling sisters, into your cause through fear and shame tactics. Crossdressers are composed of a beautiful, caring, loving folk. Let’s please be appreciative of each other, supportive of each other, and not lower ourselves to the standards of those who discriminate against us. After all, we cannot possibly expect discrimination to cease against us, if we discriminate against each other within our own ranks.

So the question to my fellow crossdressing closet dwellers is this – do we lack “guts” and a “sack,” or are there other reasons why we remain in the closet? And to those of you out there that cast stones at me and my sisters, know that I respect and hope for the best for you. I support all crossdressers. I simply ask for the same consideration, respect, and support that I give to you. I hope that is not to much to ask for . . . .

[Badtranny]

Oh Anne I hate to tell you this but you are wasting perfectly good eloquence on what is basically the same as yelling down a well.

I've seen your other posts on this subject and your point is very well stated. I happen to agree with you 100% and I share your frustration at being "called out" by the militants. But, the people you are trying to reach are unreachable. There is an element of any society that honestly feels like their opinions should not only be heard but seriously considered. To them, brushing off their position as mere advice to be taken or discarded is literally insulting. They seriously think their input is more valuable and you should consider yourself quite fortunate to be receiving it. It sounds like I'm kidding, but I'm not.

These people do not exist in my life because I simply won't allow it anymore. To paraphrase a greater mind than I, "I do not suffer fools or control freaks gladly". Much like pessimists and complainers, these people are poison and I've found my life to be so much more pleasant by avoiding them altogether. It's not nearly as easy on the internet as it is in real life though is it.

So there are TS women who don't want me in their club and CD'rs who don't want you in theirs. Breathe it in baby because this is what it feels like to stand against the wind. ;-)

You can be part of my club any time.

[Crysten]

Well I'd have to say that most of these "militant" out-ists probably live in or near a big city, probably don't have close famlies, and have few outside responsibilities they need to meet. Location, family (especially kids), jobs, bills, etc etc etc. Hey -- how about that army ranger who's currently serving in Afghanistan.....who happens to be a cross dresser in his spare time? YEAH I bet he has no "sack" or "guts" either, does he. Your argument is invalid.

[jennCD]

Reason stands that not everyone is equally effective in their skills to debate, thus you find the type of responses that I've noticed appearing on this forum as of late.

With regard to the quote attributed to Duana: "What are YOU doing for us?", my answer is a simple one:

As a member of this community, I am not required nor do I feel the need to do anything,... in the same sense that by being a musician, I am not required nor do I feel the need to do anything to help further the community of local musicians who so desperately want to be heard,...in the same sense that by being a parent, I am not required nor do I feel the need to do anything to assist all the parents of the world who may not be struggling with their own personal family issues.

My choices in life depend less on the amount of "guts" I have or the weight of my "sack" but are based more on the amount of brains I use to make the correct choices in my life, which at this point, still affects a number of people that I care about.... but I'm not denying anyone here the right to prefer the former so feel free to march to your own drummers cos I do.


jenn

[Violetgray]

I think that it's easy to insist that others break out of their closet into the mainstream when you don't have to go to that person's job, community or be in a relationship with their spouse. That detachment is what I think makes comments of that sort possible. I don't think that people should be shamed into coming out.

However...

I refuse to believe it when people say they love their closet. The only time I love restriction is when it's around my waist. Seems to me like you've weighed the options and the risks outweigh the benefits. That's perfectly logical. Divers that go down into the waters in a cage do so because there are sharks in the water, not because shark cages are so awesome that you would rather stay in them than swim around free.

I think fear drives most people to stay in the closet, but it is a very understandable, human type of fear and I don't think it's fair to call people "gutless" who take the "better safe than sorry" approach.

[Rianna Humble]

I refuse to believe it when people say they love their closet. The only time I love restriction is when it's around my waist. Seems to me like you've weighed the options and the risks outweigh the benefits. That's perfectly logical. Divers that go down into the waters in a cage do so because there are sharks in the water, not because shark cages are so awesome that you would rather stay in them than swim around free.

To continue your diving analogy, do you not think that the caged divers "love" their cage whilst it prevents them from being eaten by the sharks?

The divers may wish that they could swim around freely but in the hostile environment of the shark-infested waters at least they are able to indulge in their love of being underwater in safety.

In the same way, Anne has already said that there are things that she wishes she could do, but in the hostile environment where she lives, it is better to have the protection of the closet and for this reason she "loves" the closet for the fact that it allows her to indulge her cross-dressing in safety.

Going back to the OP (although I don't quite fit either of the two audiences that Anne was addressing), no-one has the right to bully another member into going out or staying in. We may share our experiences to try to encourage you, but we do not have the right to insist that you copy us.

There is a place for those who act as advocates (well there had better be or I have wasted my life) but those of us who take on such a role have no right to look down on those for whom we claim to be acting as advocates.

In the other thread, someone stated quite baldly that you were hiding because of your fears but then quite correctly went on to say that it is your choice whether you do this or not.

All through our lives we weigh up the possible consequences of whatever we are thinking of doing, then if we fear the negative consequences more than the apparent benefits, we decide not to act on that desire. Sometimes, our fears may be unfounded, or at least exaggerated, but only we have the right to make that choice for our own lives - no-one else.

[AliceJaneInNewcastle]

The way I see it, there are 2 distinct categories of CDs who are in the closet, and it is entirely normal for someone to move from the first to the second, because a lot of us start off in the first category and move to the second. Some then move further to going out, some don't. It is also entirely normal for some people to remain in the first category for their entire life. Everybody has a place within the gender spectrum at any given time in their life.

The first category is those who have no desire to ever go out. The second category is those who do have a desire to go out but don't.

As best I can determine, you are in the first category and are talking specifically about others who are also in the first category.

I don't have a problem with people who don't want to go out, and I would never pressure them to go out because it's clearly not what they want.

To the people who do want to go out but are too fearful of the perceived consequences to do so, I and others here try to show that most of the fears that stop them are irrational.

Who is going to bully my 8yo son in the school yard? The kid whose grandmother (one of my neighbours) is in a lesbian relationship? One of my TS friends was out for the entire time her son was at school, as she was already full time and on hormones when he was conceived. He has always called her dad, and never had a problem all the way through school including a religious high school. To some kids today, having a gender variant parent is a status symbol.

The only closeted CDs that I really have an issue with are those who emphasise the negative things that they imagine could happen and try to convince others who do want to go out not to. I believe that such behaviour is incredibly inappropriate and does not help anybody.

[VioletJourney]

Obviously with some people it might be true, with others it might not. It depends on each situation.

[Cynthia Anne]

GUTLESS! Really! You call me gutless and I'll spit some beachnut in your eye! And than the real fun can began! Sorry! Some people bring out the beast in me!
I would rather be considered gutless than to be so self centered and selfish! There's no room in my life for selfishness! Although I'm not in the closet I think it takes REAL guts to stay in there and put your family first! To give up somthing such as not going in public dressed for your wife and childs future is an act of unselfishness and takes guts to do! Hugs Anne! Love you girl!

[noeleena]

Hi.

Anne . is that it because you dont go out dressed so what , i see no problem with that , in fact why should any one place on you thier thoughts as to because they do some thing that you cant do.

Try this i have dyslexcia major learning probs cant spell many words , have no memory from age 1 to 6. & even 7 , what i do have im not sure of & that was told by my Mum. a loner hated being in front of people , could not string 2 lines to gether let alone stand in fornt of people & talk. plus a lot of other probs . & no camaras im gone.

would you say i dont have the guts to do any of those things or would it be it was not posible to do them ,certinly not in my former years some 20 years ,

You see some times there are issues that we can not work through or we are incapible to do it , for what ever reason.

People should realise we cant all be speakers or fly planes or be builders or be out & dressed.


Im a woman in my own right , been in front of over 3 millon people T V nation wide talked to 100;s of people in meetings interviewed for papers , im a builder & have flown planes.

How could i, i over came so many diffcultys in my life not perfectly in every detail . yet i have . i wont say i did that by my self no . i had help at the right time .

Im a strong woman & i needed to be to be able to be who i am & get where i am now.

Now this does not mean or implyed you have to do what iv been able to do it just says we are all different & we dont all do the same things in our lifes & its not a test that we all have to pass,
Its about being who we are , we are individuales not robots .I have not put this up to say oh look im better than you or others , its about we can work to gether we can help each other to be who we should be , to encougage each other, along the way. i look at others here & think they can do things i cant do,

Im not jealous & why should i be . i think its great we all have some thing to offer. i have my lacks my failings & things i'v been able to do .

One miner ? whats ment by sack.thats got me.

...noeleena...

[BRANDYJ]

How insensitive it is to call anyone gutless and lacking a sack because we are not like them. I consider myself in the closet but with the door open since I have shared this side of me with very carefully selected friends and loved ones. But the cost of going public dressed in fem mode is way to high. No, it's not fear, it's common sense! it's also my choice not to be pointed at, laughed at, humiliated by even those I don't know. Yes, I care what people think of me...again, even those I will never see again. So I'll stay semi closeted for the sake of my own comfort level. I've seen men out ion public that look hideous dressed feminine. Especially those that have beards or mustaches, or otherwise do not attempt to blend or pass! I would not and could not humiliate myself to go public looking like a clown and become a laughing stock. I believe some should stay in the closet. I would be read by 90% of people and that would embarrass me and perhaps make some very uncomfortable in dealing with me. I will not thrust my pension to dress on those that would be uncomfortable with it.
The person who said those of us in the closet lack a sack and are gutless is totally out of order. As others have said, we need to live our lives to make us happy. It is not up to anyone to dictate where or when I crossdress.

[PretzelGirl]

Just so that it doesn't get lost in the message, I want to put up front that it takes guts to suppress a part of yourself for the good of your family. That certainly won't fit everyone, but there are some that it fits.

When you come on this forum, you will find that if there is a possible opinion, there is probably someone who will voice it, good or bad. Most of the time I just scroll down and not waste my breath (note I said "most") on the ones that are unaccepting. I am here to get and receive support, to feel for the other members, and to laugh with them. We have a common bond no matter whether we are CD, TS, spouse, daughter, friend, etc...

I don't care if we make presenting in woman's clothing mainstream. There will be some that only want to do it in private. So what? It is called having rights. Sometimes it may be because of work, family, friends, or the need doesn't drive a person to go out. Pick another thousand reasons. It is up to a person to decide what they want to do and it doesn't show a lack of any type of intestinal fortitude if you don't go out.

As someone who gets out, I want to support those that are trying to get out in the beginning. But I try to always preface my comments saying "if" they want to get out. A person has to make that determination on their own. For those that say that getting out makes us more mainstream and that will lead us down the path to acceptance, yes that is probably true. But we aren't all in a position to step out front. That is okay, we all have to measure if it is right for us or not.

[Marcia Blue]

GUTLESS! Really! You call me gutless and I'll spit some beachnut in your eye! And than the real fun can began! Sorry! Some people bring out the beast in me!
I would rather be considered gutless than to be so self centered and selfish! There's no room in my life for selfishness! Although I'm not in the closet I think it takes REAL guts to stay in there and put your family first! To give up somthing such as not going in public dressed for your wife and childs future is an act of unselfishness and takes guts to do! Hugs Anne! Love you girl!

[SIZE="3"]

Cynthia Anne, I believe your response, is what I feel, those in the closet are really choosing. Gutless by no means. Family should always come first! We need to keep or priorities straight.
[/SIZE]

[Lee Andrews]

Nothing wrong with being in the closet. I have one foot out of the closet and it works for me. I don't need to prove anything to anybody. Cross-dressing acceptance will or will not happen without me and that is my choice. For my family and I this is how dressing works, hidden. I'm lucky to have an somewhat accepting wife and my closet is my house. Good enough for me.

If pushing the boundaries works for you, good, have at her. Calling people gutless for not doing it your way is horseshit. Each person needs to look at what works for them and not a stranger on the Net.

I have to live my life not you.

[TxKimberly]

There are times that I wish I had never ventured out of the closet. My wife has now lost at least two friends that she attributes to me. In addition she tells me that she is reluctant to make new friends because of what I am. The rational part of me knows that she is using me as an excuse, but still, I sometimes wish that I hadn't given her the excuse.
For about a year I was a manager at my company - right up until the wrong person found out about me and made it a point to tell everyone to include our director. Less than a month later I was told that they needed my skills more as an engineer than as a manager, and I was pretty much given the choice - go back to being an engineer or go unemployed. The good news is that I hated being a manager anyway, but still . . .
My (almost) eight year old daughter knows about me. So far it hasn't complicated her life, but who knows what will happen later.

There are MANY days when I wish I had kept my mouth shut, kept my head down, and lived a "normal" life. Lived a life where I hadn't complicated my career, hadn't made my wife's life harder, and didn't risk serious complications to my daughters social life. If your instincts tell you that you should stay in the closet, then do what your guts and your heart tell you to do, and to hell with what anyone else thinks. In the end it is you and your family that make these choices and that live with the consequences.

[Crissy Kay]

Making our own choices is what freedom means in the first place.

[Andrea's Lynne]

I'm with you, Anne! Do what makes you feel comfortable

[suchacutie]

Frankly, it was a bit of a shock to realize, just 6 years ago, that I was transgendered. It must be that I was so absorbed with all the changes that happened in my life that I just didn't notice this remarkable attitude by some members of our community. Heck, I initially didn't even realize the remarkable bigotry that exists in many people against transgenderism! Since I had a wife who was not only helpful and supportive but downright enthusiastic about the two of us learning about this feminine side of me (and teaching her what it is like to be feminine) my experience was incredibly positive from one learning experience to another. Pretty incredible, huh? I thought I had found a community that really pulled together and was, most importantly, empathetic about the issues that we all face at one time or another. Airing those issues help us all, well they certainly helped me.

In a couple of recent threads, the theme of, "if you aren't out of the closet you aren't helping our community!". OMG what a myopic statement! Can anyone possibly think that the only way to support each other is to go out in public, no matter what? The answer is, "apparently so!". Personally I find it much more rewarding to interact with people individually who state erroneous statements about being transgendered. In the long run, this may be the most effective way to change the general attitude.

And then we get the themem or, "there can't be any other reason that you are not out in public than fear!" Again, what a myopic view of the world! Life is not that simple or simplistic. A thoughtful person will weigh all of the possible consequences of any action in life, no? Considering all the negatives that currently swirl around transgenderism in society today, I think that as a group we are forced to be thoughtful and aware. Also, considering the remarkable internal pressures to present our femme selves, it is restraint and self-control that are difficult mental qualities to maintain.

Lastly, for those of us who in loving and open relationships with our spouses, our feminine selves are just one of many considerations that make up that loving relationship. What we do inside of that relationship is really no one else's business, and cannont be criticized by anyone in a just way. Likewise, those of us who are in a relationship where transgenderism was initially hidden for whatever reason, constraints exist that are immensely difficult and gut-wrenching. How can we criticize that situation in terms of activisim?

We all enjoy hearing about the trial, tribulations, and joys of those "out and about". It's a part of the learning process for the whole community. Thank you so much, all of you who are out in public! Tina has learned so much from you over these six years and has made her transition from nonexistance to reality much easier!

Tina

[Cheryl T]

Making our own choices is what freedom means in the first place.

Absolutely............to each his (or her) own.
What works for one of us may not for another. No one should be made to feel they "must" come out. I needed to...others don't and are happy that way, so do what works for you.

[PetiteTonya]

There are times that I wish I had never ventured out of the closet. My wife has now lost at least two friends that she attributes to me. In addition she tells me that she is reluctant to make new friends because of what I am. The rational part of me knows that she is using me as an excuse, but still, I sometimes wish that I hadn't given her the excuse.
For about a year I was a manager at my company - right up until the wrong person found out about me and made it a point to tell everyone to include our director. Less than a month later I was told that they needed my skills more as an engineer than as a manager, and I was pretty much given the choice - go back to being an engineer or go unemployed. The good news is that I hated being a manager anyway, but still . . .
My (almost) eight year old daughter knows about me. So far it hasn't complicated her life, but who knows what will happen later.

There are MANY days when I wish I had kept my mouth shut, kept my head down, and lived a "normal" life. Lived a life where I hadn't complicated my career, hadn't made my wife's life harder, and didn't risk serious complications to my daughters social life. If your instincts tell you that you should stay in the closet, then do what your guts and your heart tell you to do, and to hell with what anyone else thinks. In the end it is you and your family that make these choices and that live with the consequences.

Gawd...I just had to respond Kimberly


Three years ago was the first time I actually transformed completely and on that very same night, ventured out in public. At first I thought it was harmless "fun' but soon realized it was much more than that. I realized quickly that this was an integral part of me and I could no longer stifle it. I'll not go into that as I have earlier posts if anyone wishes to know more about my history.

So the "closet" has never been part of my TG life. I was out in public from the very beginning and have stayed out since. Now certain folk may wish to deem this to be courageous and those activists who reside under the TG umbrella would likely applaud but I live two lives. I do not dare come out at work because as Kimberly has so eloquently mentioned, there are consequences. In my case, they would be much more catastrophic. Having control of ones' privacy is a luxury the "public" TG loses once she walks out the door.

I shave my legs and have no body hair now. I have grown my nails and I pluck my eyebrows. Some members of my family think I'm gay. Some others think I'm a "freak" My wife told me she married a man, and not a TG female and as much as she accepted all of this, she couldn't bear the harsh scrutiny and humiliation that tends to randomly rear it's ugly head when you often least expect it, and so we are now divorced. My boss even flew down to "see if I was ok" because he had heard I was "not looking well"

I live my life as a TG female most of the time now.I cannot have friends over to my house because to do so, would change everything between us. My family members cannot come to visit me and stay with me. I was involved with a lovely lady who actually was a huge enabler with this discovery up until the "fun" stopped and it became serious for me..that relationship is also over now. I am too "passive" I believe she often said.

Courage....hmmm...I ask you..does it matter?...courage?...will courage make your friends accept you or your employer not demote you or worse?

Will courage stop the harsh scrutiny?
...or make you walk down the street with your head held up high, proud to be so different? Will courage stop folk from humiliating your wife...or your children?...or alienating your family?

The reality is that a price is to be paid for being who we are. The choice we make is just how high of a price will we be prepared to pay.

I saw someone write in this forum in answer to the question about whether to go out in public with friends (who had expressed curiosity about the femme inside)

Her answer to this person was "what have you got to lose?"

One has lots to lose, let me assure you.

I went back and read the original thread and noted that this one person mentioned that she was "too valuable at work" to be fired for cd ing....hmmm.....well perhaps she ought to test that theory....tomorrow....I would be very interested in the outcome. I mean after all, if one is that wedded to the notion that "courage and guts" are high held principles that will sustain us through all sorts of challenges well then I say....start putting those principles to a real test...something meaningful...and not by stopping to gas up your car because You stand to lose nothing in that situation.

This is not about courage...or guts. This is about facing the reality of who you are and making a CHOICE on how to live your life in a way that allows you a level of peace and security and also being satisfied with the price you paid...because there is a price you know.

BTW..speaking of going out in public....I was at a bar with several of my TG friends two weeks ago...and out of the blue....totally random...I was outed....I now have more choices to make.

I do not lament my lot in life. I have made choices that reflect who and what I am. Perhaps I have risked and lost too much. Only I will be able to answer that question as time goes on.

Best wishes to all who make the choice that keeps them safe and at peace.

[ReineD]

Courage....hmmm...I ask you..does it matter?...courage?...will courage make your friends accept you or your employer not demote you or worse?

Will courage stop the harsh scrutiny?
...or make you walk down the street with your head held up high, proud to be so different? Will courage stop folk from humiliating your wife...or your children?...or alienating your family?

The reality is that a price is to be paid for being who we are. The choice we make is just how high of a price will we be prepared to pay.

I'm highlighting this, not to respond to you directly Tonya, but to remind all those who champion being out and proud to visit the TS section. Many of the TSs adamantly protect their right to go stealth after they've transitioned. They're not interested in championing any cause and only wish to live their lives in peace, free of the harsh scrutiny.

It seems to come to a full circle.

This is not about courage...or guts. This is about facing the reality of who you are and making a CHOICE on how to live your life in a way that allows you a level of peace and security and also being satisfied with the price you paid...because there is a price you know.

Well said.

[Lunchbox]

I do not hide in the closet, because those close around me already know of my gift. Those who dont, are not either mature enough or do not know simply because they gain nothing and I lose nothing by them knowing v.s not knowing. Also, It really should not be looked at as hiding in the closet untill you fail to disclose information with someone of great emotional value and trust to you. Best friend/lover/so etc. Rather I look at it as respect for everyone else. No one wants to be the center of attention. To have a spotlight right on you and your mannerisms. I dont want to know if mr. x is cheating on his wife, its none of my concern. The same goes for mr.z Its none of his concern that I enjoy shaving my legs, painting my nails, putting on makeup, and going to a rave in my best club outfit and dancing with my girlfriend the entire night.

Point is, noone wants to be the center of attention with EVERY person they encounter. And everyone will have something to blush about when the light is shined on every dark crevice of someones mind/life.

[Dawn cd]

Pythos asks, "If every gay individual wanted to stay in the closet do you think they would have gotten anywhere?" The logic of her question doesn't apply to Anne, who isn't talking about "every" crossdresser, but merely about "some" cds. There will always be militants among gays, cds, African Americans and other repressed people. Good for them! But to conclude that every single member of the group is required to be militant is unreasonable and inhuman.

Pythos also repeats her belief that the root cause of closet-living is fear. Because she doesn't explore that charge, she leaves the impression that she's talking about personal fear, ie, cowardice. But what about fear for one's family, spouse and children, work colleagues, finances, professional status, and one's effectiveness in many other fields other than crossdressing? People carry responsibilities that often limit their freedom. This is not cowardice. It often amounts to courage.

[Shelly Preston]

[SIZE="4"]We are individuals brought together because of crossdressing

It is an individual choice made after receiving as much information as we can give them.

We are not hear to judge anyone we are hear to support them in anyway we can.[/SIZE]

[MaidInCan]

Lots of good, honest opinions here with lots of good points being made. We are here of our own free will, not to be insulted or to insult, but to learn, discuss (diverse views but not imposed on others), support, be supported, to encourage not discourage. Push crossdressing forward not repress it. Let each enjoy it in their own way to the extent they wish. There is no right way or wrong way, although we strive to attain certain plateaus to make ourselves better as best we can. Nobody currently on this earth is perfect.