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Thread: What are we ACTUALLY doing?

  1. #1
    (formally Becca1125) Maddie22's Avatar
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    What are we ACTUALLY doing?

    I recently saw the post in the clothing section titled "Looking Feminine vs. Looking like a Woman." It brought up many interesting points about the way we want to look when we dress.

    Most everyone stated that they would rather appear and look as a woman than to look feminine. Which if this is the case, are we merely cross-dressing, or crossing genders? There is a difference, and a larger population of this community dress to appear as women, not dress as men in feminine attire. We add secondary gender characteristics into the way we dress by adding hip, buttox and breast enhancements, while removing others such as facial and body hair. We emulate the socially constructed female ideas of mannerisms as well.

    If we were merely cross-dressing, wouldn't wearing socially designated female clothing, hair styles and adding make-up, while keeping our male gender characteristics and mannerisms be truly cross-dressing?

    If the social norm for women were to wear khaki's, button downs, and loafers while dresses, skirts, lingerie and heels were never made into fashion, would we be dressing in kahki's, button downs and loafers while adding the secondary gender characteristics as well?

    In the middle east, where women are expected to cover their faces and wear long garments, do the male crossdressers wear western societies thoughts of what women should wear or do they dress in the head wear and the long body covering garments while them too adding the secondary gender characteristics?

    If it were deemed acceptable by society for men to wear make-up, heels, dresses and skirts, blouses, remove our body hair, have long styled hair all while keeping the cuts tailored for male bodies, would we still be adding breast forms and bras, buttox, and hip forms?

    Are we emulating the female form because we admire their beauty both inside and outside or because we are men that want to be free from society's constructs of being able to be free to wear whatever we want?

    If society to begin with had reversed it's gender roles, where men and masculinity were considerable beautiful would we find more females that wanted to emulate males while less males emulating females? Today we see genetic females wearing male type clothing often. They will often wear jeans, t-shirt and even male or gender neutral shoes or sneakers such as chuck-taylors. They don't try to hide their secondary female characteristics though, or present masculine characteristics either.

    In our little community here, the genetically born females that do hide their secondary gender characteristics are Trans-Men. I have yet to see a post started by a genetically born female that presents in a pretty feminine attire the vast majority of the time, but on occasion likes to dress in a suit and tie, hide their own secondary gender characteristics, and add male characteristics.

    What are we actually doing by dressing in female attire while adding female elements that have nothing to clothes? Are we imitating (which is the most sincere form of flattery). Do we want to the choice to go between genders? Are we cross-dressing or crossing between genders? If you have no desire to be a woman, what is it about adding and subtracting the secondary gender characteristics that makes you feel complete when dressed?

    I'd like to know everyone's thoughts and expand upon some of these ideas.

    *Please note that I'm not trying to get into a labeling thread, or accuse anyone of being anything but what they say they are.

  2. #2
    Miss Conception Karren H's Avatar
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    If I knew what I was doing....... I wouldn't be here.
    Current Obsession - Breasts and Lingerie!

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  3. #3
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    Maddie, for me, I am emulating a woman. I will never be one, I know that and I have no desire to be one. Adding breast forms is just about creating the female shape that I love in all women. I'm not trying to make a statement but just letting the feminine part of me out. I guess the key to that lock is a dress and heels.

  4. #4
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    Maddie, it sounds like you are making this way too complicated. It like trying to pick fly shit out of pepper. Why not just enjoy what you have been given and see where it takes you? Is it really that important to differentiate down to the nth degree? I don't think I posted in that thread you referenced. I dress to look like a woman and to look and act feminine with the idea of emulating, or better stated, copying what I like to see. I use all the paraphernalia, pads, squeezers, bumpers, face paint and those oh so necessary accessories to reach or attempt to reach my goals when dressing. I do not yet want to be a woman inside and hope that it never happens. I am having too much fun now as it is, so why should I want to really complicate it all? Where I am in this broad T spectrum I do not know and really do not care.

  5. #5
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Judging from the post you reference, I would say that that the people who replied to it for the most part want to play act. A week ago I would have said that the majority here just want to be able to be themselves. That may still be the case where the largest part of the group here did not reply to that thread. I for one like the clothes and the comfort of some of them and the looks of others. I don't, in fact, add the extras like forms and hips and butt usually and I am happy. I do add those when I go out on the town. Part of the reason for that is I think there is less stigma associated with a full on cross dresser than a partial one (at least reaction-wise, sorry Jason and others who are fully comfortable being men in skirts). That said, if the societal norms shifted and I was accepted in that attire on a daily basis, I can tell you that skirts would be a normal daily work attire for me without all the bells and whistles (OK I still like the whistles).

    From what i read before though the whole theory that this is not sexually based seems to be blown out of the water and right now I am as confused as the GG's and SO's who post here. What exactly do CD's want? I would have said equality, the ability to dress as they like. Now, like most the SO's here, I think it isn't that. It is a sexual thing. You may not get "stimulated" as much as you used to but there is a sexual component there (excluding the TS's). there is a stimulant, adrenaline rush if you will, of doing somethimng that is forbidden. I don't remember how many threads I have seen that lament that "we" can't do what women do. That we can't throw on a dress or skirt and just hang out, how women can wear whatever and "get away" with it. Then the thread blasts that whole argument out of the water. It isn't that "fact" you can't wear the clothes, it is the "Fact" you can't appear as a female. So the argument of they can we can't is false. We have even stated it in public. If you can't have clothing that is from the womens section of the department store, even though there would be equivalent clothing in the mens department, we don't want it!

    (and now I am going over to the GG's side of the site and sit back and wonder exactly what the CD's want)
    Last edited by Lorileah; 08-11-2011 at 02:57 PM.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    I don't, in fact, add the extras like forms and hips and butt usually and I am happy. I do add those when I go out on the town. Part of the reason for that is I think there is less stigma associated with a full on cross dresser than a partial one )
    As Lorileah notes, one of the reasons I try to add "the extras" and at least blend is that, as a wise moderator once noted, going out half in and half out creates more of a discordant image than going fully en femme.

    Now back to the main question (or questions) I'm not really capable of trying to explain the WHY to the satisfaction of others - or to myself. I just am the way I am.

  7. #7
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    This could be more deeply answered by me, but the short is everyone may have a different answer to 'what we're doing'. Sure, some will agree, others will not. CD'ing in it's most basic form would be a man putting on women's clothing I suppose, not making any attempt to appear more femme; simply enjoying the feel. Some are happy staying there, while others take it to the next level, ie. forms, padding, laser, etc.

    Then there are people like me who don't know (yet) where they fit in the spectrum. I'm working on sorting that out now.

  8. #8
    Girl Inside Jeanna's Avatar
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    Maddie, I don't care cuz I'm a freak for being a cd'er anyway!

  9. #9
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    I definitely can't speak for everyone but yeah I guess my interest is in "emulating" a woman. It's not to attract men, or to actually live as a woman. I never understood why I guess. I see gorgeous women presenting themselves at gala/red carpet events and dream off in awe... "So beautiful, I wish I could look like that..." I don't know why. I guess I want others to see me the same way and think "oh... so beautiful...." Like that will ever happen! YIKES!

    I have NO interest in male clothing that's kinda feminine. In drab, I'm well... drab, a guy that don't care much about how I look. T shirt, jeans and whatever is comfortable. I'd never think about putting on stockings with my male plaid shorts... Yuck...

    I have no idea why this is the case, or why we actually do this. I was born this way I suppose.

  10. #10
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    You are correct my friend. What most of us are really doing is not literally cross dressing. More likely creating a female avartic form to otherwise interact with the world with.This is a real functioning entity. Some cannot integrate the feminine feelings into their overall person due to societal conditioning. Some of us, however say to hell with societal conditioning and integrate our feelings anyway. When that happens it becomes more of a choice as to appearance rather than "necessity". The courage to be yourself takes iniative and tenacity to attain.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  11. #11
    Senior Member charlie's Avatar
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    Hello Maddie!
    Simply crossdressing does not go far enough for most of us. A few write here that they just wear the clothes and do not wear pads, breasts, wigs or makeup when they go out. Most of us then are more then crossdressers. We are really crossgendered. My thoughts are a mess when I think of all this........male, female or both????
    Charlie

  12. #12
    Joanie sterling12's Avatar
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    Doesn't this kind of verify what a lot of us have been saying? "Transgendered" is used like an Umbrella Term for most everybody in The Community. But, it appears that most CD's are probably transgendered anyway. That's something which a lot of people consider to be Fête Accompli! (Just ask a lot of The TS Gurls, they think we are all liars about this.)

    Pretty obvious, no? If you really ask The Right Questions, it's pretty rare for one of us to, "just be a guy who likes to occasionally put on some Girly Clothes." "Inside," I imagine there is a lot more going on. All The Other B.S. is probably intended for Public Consumption.

    Peace and Love, Joanie
    Last edited by sterling12; 08-11-2011 at 07:46 PM.

  13. #13
    The Girl will Out! Kaz's Avatar
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    We are a very broad cross-spectrum here... it is a weakness but also a strength. I agree with everything you said. All I would add is that CDing has always existed... it is documented in Egyptian and Roman texts... so it runs deep!
    Kaz xx

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  14. #14
    Southern Belle Phoebe Reece's Avatar
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    I can only speak for myself. Everyone has a different take on what the real motivation is behind their own crossdressing. For me, crossdressing is a way to explore some of what it is like to be a woman. And I mean explore in the same sense that those intrepid European explorers set off to find the source of the Nile or some other mysterious destination. There's excitement, danger, and costs involved in such exploration. It's not for the feint of heart.

    A male of the species cannot hope to understand more than a tiny fraction of what it is like to be female without dressing the part and entering her world to "walk a mile in her shoes". There are many aspects of being a woman that crossdressers can never emulate or experience - childbirth, periods, etc. So a crossdresser's understanding will never be complete. That said, there's still a lot one can experience without actually becoming a woman. When out dressed femme in public, I am usually accepted by just about everyone as being just another woman - even if the people I am interacting with know better. So, I do get some understanding of the social dynamics of what it is like to be a woman. And that, for me, is a lot of fun. I gravitate towards the fun aspects of appearing as a woman.

    However, like most of those historic explorers, I don't want to live forever in the strange land that I am exploring. I enjoy going back to live most of my life where I came from. In other words I enjoy being a guy and don't desire to completely abandon what that entails. I like sampling what I find to be the best of both worlds.

    And why am I driven to be this kind of explorer? I believe I was born with the desire to do it and that the first time I tried it, my life was forever changed.
    Phoebe

  15. #15
    Leisure Lady Vivian Best's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeanna View Post
    Maddie, I don't care cuz I'm a freak for being a cd'er anyway!
    Jeanna I sure hope you don't really feel that way about yourself! At one time in my life I did and I was miserable! This was before the Internet and the age of information availability. After struggling with my inner self for years I finally brought myself to the point of acceptance for what I am and have been comfortable with myself since then. And by the way, I'm not a freak and you shouldn't consider yourself one either.
    Vivian

  16. #16
    Breakin' social taboos TGMarla's Avatar
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    It's almost always been more than mere crossdressing for me. It's more an opportunity to emulate myself as a female. The breasts and the wig are a big part of that. And I found that I absolutely adore wearing dresses, so I'm damn glad that women didn't alway wear khakis, since I wear them a lot these days to work in.

    Any money found in the laundry is MINE!


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  17. #17
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddie22 View Post
    Are we cross-dressing or crossing between genders? If you have no desire to be a woman, what is it about adding and subtracting the secondary gender characteristics that makes you feel complete when dressed?
    Another way to express "crossing between genders" is "transgender". And there are people with many different motives who form part of this rather diverse group. I agree that the term "crossdresser" (or its counterpart: transvestite) is at best a catch-all term.

    And there is a better way to define the community as a whole, than simply "CD", and "TS".

    Edit - Great questions, BTW!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorileah View Post
    From what i read before though the whole theory that this is not sexually based seems to be blown out of the water and right now I am as confused as the GG's and SO's who post here.

    ... (and now I am going over to the GG's side of the site and sit back and wonder exactly what the CD's want)
    Welcome to the club!
    Last edited by ReineD; 08-11-2011 at 08:25 PM.
    Reine

  18. #18
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    This line says what I am about a bit.

    If we were merely cross-dressing, wouldn't wearing socially designated female clothing, hair styles and adding make-up, while keeping our male gender characteristics and mannerisms be truly cross-dressing?
    I am a male, but I pull off a feminine look. If I am going to a CD meeting I wear at most breastforms, and tuck. If I am going clubbing I don't do those (well possibly tuck if in a tight skirt or dress with nothing to obscure that area, just a personal thing)

    I really, REALLY like how I look in my latest set, with me in the black shiny dress. I have a completely flat chest, and there is little question I am male. That is an image I wish was more widely accepted, even more to an extent than full on fem presentation.

    I want a female to see me in my stuff, see that I am male, and be attracted to my mix of male and female looks. It is a crazy notion but there it is.

    I would like the same option as women do when it comes to wearing make up. I see no reason for the double standards. They are stupid, outdated, and hold back a portion of the population for no good reason.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
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  19. #19
    A California Girl Rachel Morley's Avatar
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    Well for me it's all about me wanting to feel feminine and to also to try to look pretty. I can't explain why, but I just love to feel "different" and that particular "different" I'm talking about only seems to happen when I'm wearing women's clothes. I guess if I was brutally honest with myself there is somewhat of a sexual element involved and also a "forbidden fruit" element too. All I know is that the more toward the feminine I go the better the experience for me, that's also why I do the padding etc, because it improves my look and thus makes me feel better about myself. I don't know if the crux of it all is the feeling feminine or the feeling more emasculated that is the core of it, perhaps both, but all I know is that I just like to feel and look girly sometimes. I can't help it and it makes me feel happy.
    .
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  20. #20
    Senior Age Member sissystephanie's Avatar
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    When you wear the clothing of the opposite sex, you are Crossdressing. You can add all the other labels you want, but the fact of the matter is that, yes, you are Crossdressing!! I am a man and I do crossdress, and have done so for over 60 years!! No matter what I am wearing, I am still a man!! I have no desire to be a woman, and never will be!! In days past my late wife could make me up to really look like a female, but she and I both knew that I was still a male!! People can think they are what they are dressed as, but the actual fact is that unless they have had surgery they are the sex they were born as!! Imagination does not count!!
    Stephanie

    Lady on the outside, but man underneath!

  21. #21
    Silver Member Inna's Avatar
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    Hi Maddie, instead of writing a long thesis on gender flux and brain imprinting at the first stages of embryonic development I will just state that I have touched on this subject several times but to my surprise and disbelief lot of Crossdressers and what ever the labels shall be used, simply didn't want to dwell on the question of "what if", an intellectual discussion of sorts forcing us to dig deep into a psyche of our actions, but rather dismissed such opportunity to enlighten and gain further understanding about them selves by saying, "I am ME" and just leave it alone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I know that if I have nothing to hide and am presented with an intriguing question I shall respond with inquisitive anticipation rather then shut down the conversation before it begun.
    On the other hand if there is plenty of a negative energy associated with the activity I am involved I shall try to steer as far away from this subject as possible in order to protect "Status Quo" let the sleeping dogs lie, of sorts.

  22. #22
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    This is a simple one for me to answer, Maddie.

    I can definitely look female in still pics.

    However, either live or in videos, I do NOT look feminine!
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  23. #23
    Member Contessa's Avatar
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    Hello i'm not new to crossdressing, I just may be new knowing what I had been doing all these years had a name. I always felt that I was more sexual than others. You can't show that as a male unless you're. But as a female I could do exactly that. I like to dress and even if I only get to do it one more i'll always love wearing a skirt. I don't think I can stop wanting to feel like I do when I dress. I don't to be a girl but I do like being girly, I didn't think that my depression was more or less because I didn't dress. It all but made my life miserable. I now except myself even if no one else does.

  24. #24
    Member Speck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddie22 View Post
    In the middle east, where women are expected to cover their faces and wear long garments, do the male crossdressers wear western societies thoughts of what women should wear or do they dress in the head wear and the long body covering garments while them too adding the secondary gender characteristics?

    .
    Great question. I was hoping someone would have an answer for that but I'm not sure if the question got lost or no one has an answer.

    Speck

  25. #25
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
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    Speck, maybe a part of my addition to this thread will indirectly address the question you remind us about.

    So why is there a Tina in my life? Not a clue. Gender imprinting on the fetal brain, I guess. But...she does exist. If there were a magic switch that I could throw so that my body would transform from one gender to the other, everything would be perfect! Well, there isn't, it doesn't, and it never will.

    Thus, I have to make the best of it that I can, because otherwise it's not Tina. Tina would be a woman if she could, so she does the best in this culture in which I was raised, to be the feminine being she expects she would have been if she were to have been born female. If I had been born into another culture, Tina would likely be linked to that culture's guidelines.

    When I transform into Tina, I do what comes naturally for my feminine self. It's fascinating to watch it happen, and to watch her react to new ideas or situations. My wife constantly asks Tina what she thinks about one topic or another, knowing that Tina and her husband don't have parallel opinions all the time! When Tina started to develop a feminine voice it was scary because her whole voice pattern changed. That wasn't planned in the slightest, and neither is the rest of Tina. More and more, she is what she is. Every time Tina does or says something that's clearly her own thing, my wife giggles just wonderfully. My wife's been giggling a lot!

    Thanks for this thread. I actually think I now understand better what's been happening for the last few years!

    tina

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