Male Privilege

[Kaitlyn26]

Not sure if it's gender specific on her part but she's really not my favorite sales rep. I like the younger guy that goes to get the part I ask for without any dumb questions.

Is the car outside? Hmmm, I want to buy an alternator, so no it's not outside. *rolls eyes*

The dude that runs the place is even worse. He treats ppl like garbage which is why he never works the sales floor or counter. Every time he asks me if I'm sure about something I say yes! Then he rolls his eyes.

[Bree-asaurus]

Not sure if it's gender specific on her part but she's really not my favorite sales rep. I like the younger guy that goes to get the part I ask for without any dumb questions.

Is the car outside? Hmmm, I want to buy an alternator, so no it's not outside. *rolls eyes*

The dude that runs the place is even worse. He treats ppl like garbage which is why he never works the sales floor or counter. Every time he asks me if I'm sure about something I say yes! Then he rolls his eyes.

Yeah I got that at Autozone...

Me: "It won't start. No cranking, no turning, no clicking, no nothing."

Mr. Brilliant: "ok, well is it outside? we can grab the battery and test it"

Me:"No... it won't start... it's at home..."

[Aprilrain]

Yeah I got that at Autozone...

Me: "It won't start. No cranking, no turning, no clicking, no nothing."

Mr. Brilliant: "ok, well is it outside? we can grab the battery and test it"

Me:"No... it won't start... it's at home..."

Some people are just plain stupid it doesn't matter what their gender is!

[Hope]

However when you are with a group of 6 or more women, you will have 2 women over here talking to
each other while at the same time there is another 2 women talking to each other & you are having
another conversation with the other woman. But each & every one of those women know what the
other women are all talking about, they can be monitoring several other conversations while having
one themselves. I think most men could cope with this because it is not how they interact with peers,
with men, there is always respect for their peers not to over-talk each other. This also comes back
to a woman's ability to multi-task, where guys seem to just focus on a single task or agenda usually.

This is a great observation, and you are absolutely right. When I was a pastor I sat through MANY a committee meeting where I was the only "man" in the room. Say what you will about the church and patriarchy, the church is run by women. I used to sit and try to listen to 3 conversations while answering questions of my own, and I just couldn't keep up. And I used to get really irritated when the women had their own side conversations instead of listening to me... Duh.

But now, after 5 months or so on HRT I am finding that I am much better (not yet competent - but it has only been 5 months - I am surprised it has happened at all) at keeping track of the side conversations than I used to be. viva la Estrogen!

I'd like to make peace with you, Hope.

I would like that. I t was never my intent to ruffle your feathers.

I totally agree with what you are saying here. There is a difference between how men and women deal with situations. I cannot see myself being confrontational or territorial with someone (man or woman) when I want results. It seems to me this approach would just put their backs up against the wall and cause them to lock horns in return. You mentioned earlier, a more open, positive approach and I agree, this does work best. You do sense that women approach a situation differently and I'm suggesting the difference is in adopting a cooperative more than a flirty approach.

Maybe. I am not sure it is as pretty as that. It seems to me, and has been reinforced with my own experience, that the difference in technique is due to female disempowerment. As a man, I would not hesitate to lock horns with someone, because I knew how to win that conflict. He was going to do it my way because I was smarter and a bigger bad-ass than he was. Usually. Even if I was a mild-mannered preacher.

As a woman, that option of locking horns with a guy is taken away from me. I don't have that power. I cannot impose my will the way I used to. It is not an option. So I have to use a different technique. I can't force a guys hand, I have to convince him that he wants to help me.

Look at the way men and women order in a restaurant. Men demand. "I will have..." "Give me..." "bring me..." whatever they want. Women - not so much. "I would like..." "May I have...?" Some folks will dismiss this as simply being more polite - and it is more polite, (Think about why women have to be more polite) but it is also much more diminutive. Men can state their demands and expect to have them filled. As women we can make our desires known and if the person in control (not us) feels inclined to fulfill them - wonderful. This example is on my mind this evening because I was out earlier with my wife and slipped up and ordered like a guy and got the weirdest look from the waiter. I no longer have the agency to demand, I must now request or be seen as behaving inappropriately.

I am not saying I like this system - I am just saying it is what I have observed.

So, maybe we are not at odds after all. I can see a woman feeling as if she needs to pander to a man's ego if she is surrounded by sexist and dismissive men, if this is the only way she can get them to cooperate with her. And perhaps this was the case a generation ago. What I was saying earlier is that men and women have changed and the majority of men I encounter in my daily life are not sexist and dismissive.

I don't mean to be the bearer of bad tidings - but I have been behind the curtain. Men have not really become less sexist and dismissive, they have simply learned that they cannot be overtly sexiest and dismissive. I can promise you that at least 80% of the guys you know, talk about how stupid women are, and how they only get their jobs because of affirmative action, only good for one thing, and on and on, when they think they are in a safe environment. I have heard mechanics and plumbers, as well as doctors and lawyers, and DEFINITELY other clergy do this. Locker room banter can be much more disturbing than you are aware of. There are guys who will absent themselves from the conversations, but extraordinarily rarely will they ever speak up and say "no! that isn't right - women are smart capable individuals!" Because the cruel fact is that if you do that - you loose esteem in the eyes of other men. By suggesting that you, as a man, are not better than women, essentially assigns you the rank of a woman. And everybody else in the group is suddenly better than you are.

I assure you, sexism is alive and well. It is just underground.

[Melody Moore]

And I used to get really irritated when the women had their own side conversations instead of listening to me... Duh.

Oh Hope,

I am 100% sure those women would listen to you, but only if you could only just
figure out how to get a word in any way you could into an 'all female' conversation

[ReineD]

I would like that. I t was never my intent to ruffle your feathers.

My feathers were never ruffled, Hope. It takes a lot more than a mere disagreement to do this.

It seems to me, and has been reinforced with my own experience, that the difference in technique is due to female disempowerment. As a man, I would not hesitate to lock horns with someone, because I knew how to win that conflict.
As a woman, that option of locking horns with a guy is taken away from me. I don't have that power. I cannot impose my will the way I used to. It is not an option. So I have to use a different technique. I can't force a guys hand, I have to convince him that he wants to help me.

I think the difference between you and me is, never having felt the desire to lock horns I don't feel as if I'm missing anything. I consider myself typical when I say that my rules for engagement when I deal with both women and men (unless it is a man I am flirting with), is pretty much the same, especially when it comes to dealing with people about day-to-day stuff.

I can promise you that at least 80% of the guys you know, talk about how stupid women are, and how they only get their jobs because of affirmative action, only good for one thing, and on and on, when they think they are in a safe environment. I assure you, sexism is alive and well. It is just underground.

That's fine. As long as I'm not openly discriminated against when I wish to discuss options for the repairs needed to my car or my home, it doesn't matter to me what some men say about me behind my back. But I bet that the men who listen to such talk and don't defend women, but who also don't participate (as you say, for fear of appearing weak), don't all fundamentally believe that women are inferior creatures. If they do, they know how to put on masks with us admirably well!

Women engage in their own version of locker room talk too (typified by the rolling of the eyes, with the interjection of "Men!"). But it doesn't stop them from putting aside differences and dealing with them just as openly as they deal with each other.

On that note, Hope, I've enjoyed our discussion but I don't think we'll come to an agreement. Or perhaps we have, but we're just using different words.

[Bree-asaurus]

However when you are with a group of 6 or more women, you will have 2 women over here talking to each other while at the same time there is another 2 women talking to each other & you are having another conversation with the other woman. But each & every one of those women know what the other women are all talking about, they can be monitoring several other conversations while having one themselves. I think most men could cope with this because it is not how they interact with peers, with men, there is always respect for their peers not to over-talk each other. This also comes back to a woman's ability to multi-task, where guys seem to just focus on a single task or agenda usually.

I don't know if this is related, but I thought this was very interesting. I'm personally not able to just sit down and do one thing anymore. Like watching a movie, where I used to be able to sit and focus on just the movie... I now have to be doing something else. I can't sit and just do one thing. Even if it's a movie I love. When working, I usually have something in Netflix playing on the monitor next to my work monitor.

When hanging out in groups, I'm always part of multiple conversations. I remember when "being one of the guys" it was very much the "one person has the floor" way of conversing. I don't know if I followed that rule because that's how I worked at the time or if it was because I was just doing what the other guys do. I always did look to other guys to see what they do and imitate them.

[Wendy_Marie]

I did It ended up being a bad ground between the engine and cab. I couldn't find it... so it fell off or was badly corroded or something, but I ran a new ground and everything works! I checked the other grounds, and the main ground from the battery to the engine but totally missed that one. I had torn apart the dash looking for bad linked fuses and realized that it was a grounding issue when I was getting a lower voltage reading using the cab as a ground versus the battery.

I do most of my own automobile repairs as well...but the one thing I hate doing is electrical problems...I can rip out an engine, change a transmission, tear into the differential without hesitation...just don't stick a wiring diagram in my hand and expect me to trace the harness without hearing a lot of cursing and throwing around of tools.....glad you got it fixed.

[Bree-asaurus]

I do most of my own automobile repairs as well...but the one thing I hate doing is electrical problems...I can rip out an engine, change a transmission, tear into the differential without hesitation...just don't stick a wiring diagram in my hand and expect me to trace the harness without hearing a lot of cursing and throwing around of tools.....glad you got it fixed.

Yeah I'm the same way. I put all new wiring in my Camaro, but that was fun because I knew where everything had to go. I don't like hunting down wiring problems though.

[Debglam]

Yeah I'm the same way. I put all new wiring in my Camaro, but that was fun because I knew where everything had to go. I don't like hunting down wiring problems though.

Wiring and electical problems were always an interesting challenge (not including my MG - damn Brits and their 6v Pos ground systems! ) UNTIL all this computer controlled crap came into play. If it weren't for my older cars I would have hung my multitester up.

Now don't get me started on carburators vs. fuel injection!

Debby

[Kaitlyn26]

Yeah I'm the same way. I put all new wiring in my Camaro, but that was fun because I knew where everything had to go. I don't like hunting down wiring problems though.

I did the same with an older chevy truck once. It was pretty funny. Take off the 35 year old part, find out it's so fragile it falls apart, put on the list of new parts you need. 3 days and several hundred small parts later you find the problem elbow deep in a rats nest. Ah the fun of fixing cars.

[Melody Moore]

The best thing about older motors as opposed to new motors was
simplicity. I miss those days of being able to fix everything myself.

[Kaitlyn26]

The best thing about older motors as opposed to new motors was
simplicity. I miss those days of being able to fix everything myself.

Over here in the states it's really not that bad. Most American made efi v-8s are still not that hard to work on. Imo the vehicles I've dreaded working on are, any s-10 or blazer with a 4.3 v-6, or the lt-1 93-97 camaros. I do work on a 2000 ls1 Camaro pretty often for a fellow that has very little personal time but makes a lot of money (truck driver), and it's not too bad to work on it. Nothing is like an old 70s pick up though. You can literally set up shop under the hood beside the engine and go to work on it. Getting under it doesn't even require a jack. Easiest vehicles to work on imo.

Coincidentally the ease of working on an American made v-8 makes them a real consideration for me whenever I buy another car. The fuel mileage may be terrible but at least I won't have to pay someone to fix it. I've been thinking about a Honda though, because I've heard they're also easy to fix if you do not have the newest model.