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Thread: "Ring the bell, feed the Dog"

  1. #1
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    "Ring the bell, feed the Dog"

    I am not one to put a lot of stock into some of the old school “Head shrinkers” out there, so I want to approach something from a different angle. Pavlov and his dogs show to me some very interesting things that also apply to human nature. I will not go into all that his experiments described, I will leave you to look into that later.

    I this tender age of 59, I have been dressing in lingerie too many years to count. As I have gotten older most of the reasons for dressing are still there. My start was different from many, but it is the end result that I wish to discuss. As a young teen I would dress in my mother’s clothes and” prance” around the house when no one was home. As I was the youngest, with both of my sisters being married by the time that I was 11, I had a lot of empty house time. It was during one of these dress up times that I had my first ejaculation, then later the second and so on. Hence the bell rang and I got pleasure. So, the imprinting on my brain started with women’s clothes, particularly lingerie, being something that brought pleasure. Even when I would have a nocturnal emission, the dreams were almost always about wearing bras and panties. Over the years these behaviour’s have toned down some, but the drive is still there.
    I have read and some say that, "I was too young to get any sexual pleasure out of wearing the clothes”. I do not necessarily agree with those comments. I have observed children and have watched my own grow up. I have seen boys play with themselves and girls rub themselves also. Whether this was for sexual pleasure, or if it was just a feel good moment, they are getting something out of it, or they would not have been doing it. I do not claim to know what goes on in the mind of a child and I do not remember some of the why's and wherefores of my youth. I operate on the premise that there is a reason why we do the things that we do. We just have to get to the root of it all. There was an expression that was used years ago, "if it feels good, do it".


    When I first got married, I thought that this would go away, as I now had a better option for release (a selfish motive). In reality, 2 things happened, I had a wife with different drives and cycles, and I had a dresser full of lingerie to try on, in my free time. The first 8 years of our marriage, I worked shifts, and she worked steady days. Now I had the "empty house" again to “prance” around in as I pleased. The behaviour of women’s clothing and masturbation was getting very well entrenched. The activities and clothing that lead to that fateful conclusion would get stretched out to maximize the whole event. I could go most of the day dressed, but the end was always the same.

    The coward that I was stopped me from ever saying anything, and left my wife with the moods that would come from my abstaining from the dressing, or the last purge. I wanted to ring the bell and get that release. Then I finally told her she was relieved that I was not having an affair on her. In examining the why's of telling, I saw the telling as being selfish, in that I could stop hiding and remove the fear of being caught. The new openness brought me into a whole new realm, one of being able to dress at will and buy what I wanted without fear. Yet, I was always looking for reassurance, and still hid much of my behaviour in the early days.

    Jump ahead to now, I underdress 24/7, but I still like to "get off" especially when certain articles of clothing are worn. Dressing for me is a very sexual thing. Just like Pavlov's dogs, the bell rings, and the dogs salivate, when I wear certain clothes I want to "get it off". If anything has changed, it has changed because I worked at it, by example panties do not to it for me the same way anymore, but I wear them all of the time. For the most part, this has made me happy, but, has it then lead me deeper into dressing? It is difficult to get out of the deeply grooved "wagon rut" that I have traversed over the years, and yet I am not really wanting to get out of the rut. My wife knows what I am doing, and as long as she "gets it" when she wants it, she doesn't seem to mind, and she doesn’t want it as often as I would want it. This is something that we have talked about. My drives have slowed down, but the desire to dress has not.

    Now this may not be your story, but I wonder how much of this is the same, in the behaviour category. We get pleasure out of wearing women’s clothes, for whatever reason that we may have, and it has been so deeply ingrained in us that it would be difficult to get out of it. This is assuming that we would want to get out of it. By example, a smoker does not quit, until they want to. With them there are health reasons to quit, but what would be our reasons, if we had to? Is crossdressing an acquired taste, like the way that we would drink our coffee? Are we looking for some excuse to blame, for our behaviour? Well that was the way I was born, sister, and I can’t change it! Should we be trying to change the things that we can, accepting the things that we can’t, and using the wisdom to know the difference. When it comes to the changing department, I would not agree to any form of negative re-enforcement to bring about the change. If anything, I would be prone to say that another type of pleasure would be needed to replace the one that is currently being used. Replace something, with something better. Then, that would cause me to ask, do we go deeper into dressing to get a greater pleasure?


    I desire to accept myself for who I am. I have made more strides in this area in the last year due to being a part of this forum. I have to be true to myself and honest enough to admit the why's and wherefore's as to why I do what I do. I do not need some "head shrinker" to tell me that I get pleasure out of dressing in lingerie and women’s clothing, that is obvious to me already. Is the feeling releasing endorphins into my body? Are my serotonin levels going up as I put the clothes on? I just know that it makes me feel good and at peace with myself, and the world. So people, leave me to do my own thing, I am not hurting you, and I do not see where I am hurting myself, if I am keeping it to myself. If there has been any problems arise from this behaviour, it is from a society that does not seem to like anything that is not conforming to their standards. So why am I still trying to play by their rules? I know that I can’t win by playing by their rules, unless I change. I do not want to change, I am finally coming to accept me and like me for who I am. Yet, I am still trying to play by their rules!
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  2. #2
    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    Hmm... using a behavioral model to explain crossdressing? I think I love you.

    Remember thought that sexual pleasure doesn't HAVE to be the reinforcer. It could also be an adrenaline rush or something.
    Last edited by VioletJourney; 08-25-2011 at 12:06 PM.

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    Hi Gigs, Your story makes sense to me we are who we are and nothing is going to change that.

    Orchid

  4. #4
    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLUE ORCHID View Post
    Hi Gigs, Your story makes sense to me we are who we are and nothing is going to change that.

    Orchid
    Actually it's completely the opposite. The message I took from it was a behavioral perspective, we do what we do because it's been associated with a biological reinforcer like sexual pleasure or adrenaline. We wear a skirt, we masturbate, the release of endorphins is associated with the skirt, and over time we become conditioned to release endorphins just from the skirt. And so forth.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Gosh there are lots of threads here lately about the association of CDing with endorphins, serotonin, or dopamine.

    I can't tell you how many posts I've read from members here over the years who confirm that for them also the CDing was rooted in sexual pleasure, whether or not the sexual aspect continues, has diminished, or has disappeared. And it is likely a member's age and libido that determines where they're currently at with the sexual aspect of CDing.

    The more I read about this, the more it makes sense, since the release of brain chemicals does rewire the brain. I also wrote this in another thread, but one researcher, Dr. Blanchard (whose theories about autogynephilia are controversial), hypothesized that the experience of crossdressing continues to be emotionally rewarding and desirable in its own right even after it no longer causes intense sexual arousal. He gives an analogy to men who continue to experience intense emotional bonds to their wives, even long after their initial sexual attraction to them has diminished, which is not uncommon in most marriages as people age.

    I seriously doubt you are alone in this.
    Reine

  6. #6
    Member SweetIonis's Avatar
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    Pavlov's experiment involved classical conditioning in which the stimulus is not contingent on the behavior. In operant conditioning however, the stimulus IS contingent on the behavior. In other words in operant conditioning the subject voluntarily engages in the behavior in order to receive the stimulus. In Pavlov's experiment, the dog is presented with the unconditioned stimulus (the food) regardless of his behavior. So how that applies in this case the CD INITIALLY engages in the behavior of cross dressing in order to receive the stimulus of sexual pleasure. However after time, the behavior becomes so conditioned, that the subject gets pleasure from the activity itself, even thought the ORIGINAL stimulus of sex pleasure is not there.
    Last edited by SweetIonis; 08-25-2011 at 10:07 PM.
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    happy to be her Sarah Doepner's Avatar
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    I doubt it's quite as simple as stimulus-response-reward, but I wouldn't argue with you. By now the original motivations and feelings are so far in my past and there are so many layers of experience that I'd have to dig through that it's very difficult to say how and in what order things happened. I think I'd be better off just using the current motivation as my response.

    It seems to be the right thing for me to do sometimes, but not all the time. I'm to the point now that the challenge of creating the best image in that mirror is pretty darn satisfying. I like it. It's fun.
    Sarah
    Being transgender isn't a lifestyle choice. How you deal with it is.

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    Member SweetIonis's Avatar
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    I know this guy who was once the state champion wrestler in his weight class in high school. He told be he originally started wrestling to impress this girl. But after a while he forgot about the girl, and just got into the wrestling for the sake of it.
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    Member Fionax's Avatar
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    I have no doubt that in my case it is still sexually driven. Though approaching my eigth decade I become aware over a period of the need to dress. Tension builds up roughly every two weeks, which is only relieved by masturbation, but I have obviously conditioned myself because I have to dress fully to do it. Perhaps it's an excuse for me but I don't believe that I could climax if I was dressed, or undressed, normally, not that I have tried. I have to plan for a time when my SO is going to be out as I am still very much in the closet, though my enquiries about what she will be doing on such and such a day, probably give her an idea why I want to know. If I can, I'll stay dressed all evening or all day with luck, before trying any hand work, sometimes because of the need for sudden termination of dressing there is still a relaxation, though the effects only last for a few days.
    At the moment for a number of reasons I have been stymied for a month, but have started writing a story about a crossdresser which seems to help lower the pressure, as I return to it several time during the day to add anther twist to the tale as a fresh thought occurs to me. So there is no direct masturbation but some feed back associated with dressing and sexual relief; all in the mind.

  10. #10
    Silver Member DebbieL's Avatar
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    There are probabably several factors at play together. I knew I was transgendered when I was 3 years old. I liked playing with the girls, and didn't like playing with most of the boys. I didn't start switching clothes with other girls until I was about 6, and even then it wasn't really sexual, I just liked looking pretty.

    When I was caught in a girl friend's dress, tights, and shoes, her mother freaked out and suddenly I couldn't play with the girls in the neighborhood, and was made to feel shame and guilt about dressing. When I tried to play with boys I got beat up for being a sissy, so I had to learn to act and dress more like a boy.

    The problem was that I still wanted to look pretty. Since the only women's clothes available were the clothes my mom wore to church, which I would fish out of the hamper, I would dress in those while locked in the bathroom. The sheer stockings, the satin girdle, and the soft padded bra felt nice, and I became more aware of the erections, but I was still far too young to ejaculate. It just felt nice. But I was afraid that if was caught I wouldn't be able to do it anymore, that I might get punished, or that I might have to go to the hospital.

    Secretly, I prayed for God to turn me into a girl, like he/she was Santa Clause, or the good fairy. I watched "Uncle Miltie" and knew I could look prettier than him. I remember several shows, like Gilligan's Island, where they swtiched men into women's bodies, and wondered if I could make such a device. I even studied magic and sorcery to see if there were any spells to cause such a transformation or soul exchange. - no dice.

    I was caught when I was 6, and my mother was very understanding. My father was a bit more freaked, because he had grown up very feminine and wanted to spare me the pain of harrassment and brutality. They finally agreed to buy me a pair of tights, which I could wear with a cape and be a "super-hero". After about a month, the tights were shredded and my parents refused to get any more.

    I continued to wear my mom's clothes, but I also started doing the laundry. I also had astma and hay fever as well as a lousy autoimmune system, so I would stay home sick a lot. This gave me many opportunities to get dressed. My mom even had a wig, which I'm sure she knew I wore. I'd have erections, but mostly it just felt good to be dressed.

    When I had my first ejaculation, I was wearing a pair of panty-hose, with a bathing suit or teddy over it, and I had tied a stocking around my waist. I was trying to make it impossible for me to get out of the outfit so that my parents would catch me and get me the help I wanted so badly. I started to squirm under the covers and it felt so good that I "squirted". On the one hand, it felt really good, on the other I knew this meant that soon I would change into a man, and couldn't change into a girl anymore, so I was really upset too.

    I didn't escape from the outfit, but my parents kept choosing to ignore it. My mom finally found my "private stash" which I'd hidden between the mattresses of my bed, and told me I could keep what I had, not to take anything else, and not to tell my dad. One of the items was a black chiffon teddy with a white chiffon lining. I kept it for 10 more years.

    My dad had given me the "birds & the bees" talk when I was 10. I knew that ejaculations meant that lower voice, hairy arms, legs, and face, would come soon, and I was not happy about it. Ironically, the shame and guilt of dressing combined with the shame and guilt of ejaculation, and made for a strange combination. When I dressed, I would try NOT to ***, yet knew I wouldn't get undressed until I did. The sensuality of the soft sheer clothing and sensual fabrics became part of the sexual experience.

    Later, when I started getting sexual with girls, they would try to just "jerk me off", and I didn't respond well. On a good day, it tickled and I would have to make it stop. On a bad day, it was just plain painful, especially when I was wearing denim jeans and those big zippers. Pretty soon, I just told them to relax and let me take care of them. Which, ironically made me very popular with the girls, and made me "sharable".

    I had hoped that when I started having REAL sex with a REAL girl, that I would not need to dress anymore. Instead, after 3 hours of sex, we just had to give up. Eventually, my partner tied me up so I could just focus on what she was doing, and I started to imagine myself dressed up like a girl and being "raped" by this beautiful woman. That worked really good, but I was afraid if I told her about my dressing fantasies, she would leave. Eventually, I hinted and she did leave.

    I went back to single life for about two more years, and living on my own meant I could buy my own clothes, wear what I wanted, underdress, and get dressed up in the apartment. When I finally got serious and moved in with Leslie, my future wife, I thought I woudn't need to dress anymore so I through out my wardrobe. In a matter of days I realized THAT was a mistake, and eventually had to "fess up". Leslie seemed to be OK with it, and we would both get dressed up and play together and both of us would enjoy incredible sex together. I had learned to please a woman in a number of ways, paid close attention during the lesbian scenes in porno movies, and even had some toys.

    Unfortunately, by the time we actually got married, she was hoping that I'd "outgrow" my desire to dress, and she had pretty much lost interest in sex. We had to children, but mutually satisfying sex was not really an option. I could get myself off when she wasn't home, and I could get her off or she'd get herself off. But she didn't want to play with Debbie any more at all.

    Over the years, I have been able to enjoy sex without being dressed, but I use fantasy to fill the void. At the same time, I don't have to get off when I'm dressed up. When I started going out in public, I learned to tuck (which was more like inverting it), and didn't get aroused. On the other hand, I found that other changes happened. I could be more honest, more authentic, more generous, more friendly, and more happy. I was also healthier, lost 100 lbs, and started working with dozens of alcoholics and drug addicts as a sponsor.

    When I enrolled in a leadership program that required that I stop dressing, and even required me to "burn the wardrobe" to move to the next level, most of the wonderful transformations reversed. I withdrew, gained weight, stopped dancing, and within a year was too fat to go out. By 9/11 2001, I was over 325 lbs, and was having heart trouble. I lost some weight, getting down to around 270, but then I had a stroke. After shooting to 325 again, I decided to play a game called "14 in 14". I wanted to go from size 26 to size 14 in 14 months. I lost weight, started working out, and started dressing up again. Many of the other good traits started coming back as well. I've started going out in public again, even though I can't really pass, and I'm working in community service again.

    At 55, it takes longer to do the make-up, heels are harder to wear, and it's harder than ever to go through the "little death" of going back to "man mode". It's also harder to face the reality that I won't be a "pretty girl" any more. On the other hand, I'm less concerned with harassment, so I can wear the short shorts, the tight tank, and a purse, without having to go full dress. Ironically, with my longer hair, there are times when men will come into the restroom and check to make sure they are in the right place when they are looking at my face. If I shave, I get "mam'd"

  11. #11
    Junior Member DeSkirt's Avatar
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    Hey Gillian
    Your explanation of how you relate to cross dressing is very much like mine. I came to the same conclusions my self. It was great to read your version and know someone else fees the same as I do!

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    SweetIonis

    Your point about classical versus operant conditioning is technically correct however I believe that the line becomes VERY blurred in humans and higher brain activity animals and realistically the end result is similar (i.e. reproduction of desired behaviour in response to a stimulus).

    Gillian you mentioned having to "up the ante" so to speak in order to get the desired biological release. This is typically the case with most addictions (and please I am NOT trying to compare CD'ing to an addiction, or masturbation either) however curiously a large number of chemical addictions reach a "saturation" point after which many are literally "turned off". This is one of the theories behind using methadone programs.

    Finally I also think there are a lot of posts here but also talk amongst medical and psychology circles regarding endorphins, serotonin, dopamine etc.etc. Anyone who claims they understand fully the roles and interactions and activities of brain chemicals is either lying or delusional (or the CEO of a large pharmaceutical company;0). I am highly suspicious that the human condition is so wide and so varied that theories on cause and effect of various psychological conditions and behaviours are likely to be more like shall we say (putting on best pirate voice) "guidelines" rather than being in any way clinically useful.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adina View Post
    Finally I also think there are a lot of posts here but also talk amongst medical and psychology circles regarding endorphins, serotonin, dopamine etc.etc. Anyone who claims they understand fully the roles and interactions and activities of brain chemicals is either lying or delusional (or the CEO of a large pharmaceutical company;0). I am highly suspicious that the human condition is so wide and so varied that theories on cause and effect of various psychological conditions and behaviours are likely to be more like shall we say (putting on best pirate voice) "guidelines" rather than being in any way clinically useful.
    I understand very little about this (for example I'm not clear about the differences between, and the specific roles of endorphins, serotonin, dopanine, etc) but I would like to learn more. I haven't formally read the clinical research and my understanding of biology is limited. But I have read basic explanations on med & psych sites about the fact that brain chemicals do play a role in perpetuating an addiction or a compulsion. Is this not true?
    Reine

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    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I understand very little about this (for example I'm not clear about the differences between, and the specific roles of endorphins, serotonin, dopanine, etc) but I would like to learn more. I haven't formally read the clinical research and my understanding of biology is limited. But I have read basic explanations on med & psych sites about the fact that brain chemicals do play a role in perpetuating an addiction or a compulsion. Is this not true?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

    It's not about the actual brain chemicals and what not, the overall point is that something that naturally releases "good" chemicals (dopamine, for example) can be associated so strongly with a neutral stimulus that the neutral stimulus (like crossdressing) begins to release neurotransmitters without the unconditioned (natural) stimulus. Then, moving on to operant conditioning, now that the conditioned behavior produces a pleasurable response, the pleasurable response acts as a reinforcer to continue to motivate the person to do the behavior.

    Simples. You don't need to know the complexities of the human brain to figure it out, classical and operant conditioning are proven science.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VioletJourney View Post
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_conditioning
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operant_conditioning

    It's not about the actual brain chemicals and what not, the overall point is that something that naturally releases "good" chemicals (dopamine, for example) can be associated so strongly with a neutral stimulus that the neutral stimulus (like crossdressing) begins to release neurotransmitters without the unconditioned (natural) stimulus. Then, moving on to operant conditioning, now that the conditioned behavior produces a pleasurable response, the pleasurable response acts as a reinforcer to continue to motivate the person to do the behavior.

    Simples. You don't need to know the complexities of the human brain to figure it out, classical and operant conditioning are proven science.
    I get what you're saying Violet, and this is my understanding as well. But, unless I am misunderstanding Adina's point, she is saying there is no validity to what you've just described?
    Reine

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    Crystal VioletJourney's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    I get what you're saying Violet, and this is my understanding as well. But, unless I am misunderstanding Adina's point, she is saying there is no validity to what you've just described?
    It sounded to me like she was saying that the conditioning is dependent on the specific functions of the neurotransmitters, which to me shows a lack of understanding of conditioning, which is a scientific fact and is used successfully all the time in therapy.

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    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Well then, we'll wait until Adina comes back in to clarify what she said. Thanks for your input!
    Reine

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    As I posted this I knew it came out wrong.

    The concern I have is that the line between "classical" and "operant" depends almost on the definition of a "voluntary" behaviour. In humans particularly this definition I think can be a little hazy. E.g. is sexual stimulation (i.e. masturbation) a "voluntary" behaviour. arguably yes but then is ejaculation a voluntary behaviour, arguably no. But ejaculation will almost always require sexual stimulation. So do we have classical or operant conditioning? As I said I think the argument is perhaps academic and what we have is conditioning.

    I should not have made the comment about neurotransmitters. My concern here is that there is a tendency to try and find a "cause" or "effect" i.e. a particular chemical, that we can alter / inhibit / mimic. I just don't think it is that simple. I think there is more at play than simple biochemistry (or even complicated biochemistry!).

  19. #19
    Member SweetIonis's Avatar
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    In operant conditioning the behavior is voluntary in the sense that there is no direct, overt, coercion invoked to induce the behavior. The subject engages in the behavior to obtain the stimulus. However in classical the unconditioned stimulus is always there in the beginning to invoke the behavior.

    I think one thing that may be confusing is that there are different types of behavior. Classical conditioning deals with the modification of reflexive behavior. Ejaculation is reflexive behavior. Operant conditioning deals with the modification of VOLUNTARY behavior. Cross dressing is voluntary behavior, where voluntary is in the sense that I mentioned at the beginning.
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  20. #20
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    Whether a person gets all clinical, or just asks themselves a couple of simple questions, I was seeking to stimulate discussion. I wonder how often we go down a path not knowing where it will end up, but we go down it and years later wonder how we got where we are in the first place. I still remember for an example the first time that I had a cigarette, It was a winter evening coming home after being at an outdoor skating rink. The girl I was with, hid her smokes under a board behind the garage. We stopped with several of us lighting up, me for the first time. I quit longer ago than I care to remember, but when I walk the dog on a clear winter evening, that urge to light up still can come back to me. Whether it is a voluntary, or involuntary responce, it is still a responce. We get ourselves into the well worn rut and can't even remember how we got there some times. Everyone seems to remember their first time, but what about when it became so normal that it was now more of a habit than anything else? For those who see things from an addiction point of view, when did it become an addiction? The first time, the 20th time or what? Lets even look at coffee, the first couple of times I had coffee I was joining in with the others, I couldn't stand it. It was an aquired taste for me, and I like the taste now. I like the feel of lingerie, and it is a habit that I do not at this time intend to quit. Dressing up calms and makes me feel good, so I keep doing it. It does not matter how others may look at it, I keep wearing lingerie and dressing for those reasons, or that is what I keep telling myself. What ever you wish to tell yourself is OK with me, the real issue is do you accept yourself, in spite of what others may say.
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  21. #21
    Member janet p's Avatar
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    I started much the same way and after 65yrs I realized that it's more about the lingerie for me then the outer dress

  22. #22
    Female Illusionist! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Here's something for u clinitions to discuss, Gillian. I think you've touched on a number of points that VERY MANY of us can identify with.

    One, is your point about dressers ever increasing attitude of moving on and up the CD ladder. Which for TS individuals, sometimes leads to hormones and SRS. But, even tho CDs don't desire to become female, we DO seem to move up our OWN ladders! Gradually adding more and more articles of apparel. Shaving all over. Coloring nails. Getting makeovers. Going out dressed. Going out with others. Etc., etc. If we have opportunity, most of us seem to do this! I certainly do/have! For many, the sexual component falls by the wayside.

    Sex is an important component of my dressing and always has been. Even tho I'm over 60. Everything to do with dressing until recently, has "turned me on" to some degree. However, now, going out dressed, meeting other dressers seem to be COMPLETELY DIFFERENT thrills for me! Nothing sexual involved at all! So your Pavlov theory doesn't seem to work on me at all! For over 12 years dressing "rang my bell". Ok. Now, for the last 2 years while dressing to go out and/or meet others, no bells at all! Ofcourse, I'm getting SOMETHING out of it or I'd stop rite? But, here's my point; when I dress at home in private, Pavlov's bells keep ringing as they always have.

    Anyone care to explain THIS? I'm pretty sure I'm not the only dresser with this "two kinds of thrills" situation. But, what seems odd to me is why I haven't "moved on" from my old "bells" to this NEW thrill alone? Like many have? Maybe I will? When? Why?
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

    Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!

  23. #23
    Aspiring Member StarrOfDelite's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    retired and rootless!
    Posts
    906
    DebbieL, thanks for relating your story. congratulations on your will power in losing the weight and getting down to size 14.

  24. #24
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    549
    After all these years I can tell you, dressing is not sexually driven albeit tightly interwoven.

    Sexual satisfaction while dressed is no different than any other sexual satisfying act with any other sexual stimulus.

    Dressing is an act of wanting to be.

    Kitty

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