got balls?

[Badtranny]

Let's talk about coming out of the closet. First I want to state that this discussion is for those who WANT to come out but are too scared to do it. I completely support the people who are happy being closeted for whatever reason. That's your business and NOT the subject of this discussion.

I want to talk about the girls and boys who wish they had the seeds to come out, but can only seem to muster excuses instead of courage.

There are an awful lot of gals here who have described themselves as "manly men" in their regular lives and I can't help but be fascinated by the dichotomy.

I also see a lot of male posturing in regard to self defense, or just kicking ass in general. The overwhelming majority of CDs on this board appear to be mostly closeted, as well as typically macho. On the face of it, it's easy to understand that a macho guy wouldn't want people to know he likes wearing dresses and heels, but on the other hand why would a macho guy give a damn about what other people thought?

Since I've come out at work I've learned a lot about myself, but I've also learned an awful lot about the men I work with. Since I'm in the construction industry, I'm literally surrounded by macho chest beaters. Some of them are blowhards but most of them are just real men who are totally secure in their masculinity. How do I know? Because I have flower ear rings and a girly pony tail and these guys don't give a damn. Sure we all give each other a hard time about whatever is easy (I bust the fat guy for having a tight shirt and he busts me for looking like a girl) but those guys have been far more supportive than I could ever imagine. They're even protective in a way. It's really kind of sweet and I love it when macho dudes have a sensitive side.

So what took me so long? Well my theory is I couldn't be honest with anyone else until I could be honest with myself. Basically, don't expect others to accept you when you can't even accept yourself. When I finally came to terms with who I was, coming out became almost easy. But, then again I would have never been mistaken for masculine, even when I was trying so hard to be.

I saw a movie a couple of years ago that made a big impact on me. I can't remember the name but it was a documentary about gay guys that were very masculine and didn't feel like they fit into the "scene". They looked and acted just like regular guys and they would fight right away if you dared to call them fags. My favorite subject in this doc, was a guy who was awesome looking. He was big and tall and had a great attitude and I was crushing hard, but he said something that still resonates with me. He was talking about how difficult it was for him to come out because he didn't want his friends to think less of him. He said the worst thing he could be was a wimp. Then he said he started noticing the fem gay guys who were out and proud. He noticed they didn't give a damn who knew and they weren't taking crap from anybody. Then he realized that because he looked like a "real man" he was able to hide in plain sight, unlike the femmy guys, who couldn't hide even if they weren't gay, and that's when he realized that he was being a total wimp by hiding. He decided the bravest thing he could do was be honest about who he was and just deal with it. He said it was a shame that these little guys were so brave and he was such a coward.

So my question is this; Do you want to come out? Got balls?

[Kaitlyn26]

Somebody pushed the big red button again! *runs away*

Oh, since I notice you're referring to me I'll offer some explanation. First of all I'm not closeted. Second of all, I never once felt the need to be prepared for defending myself until after I left the ugly little closet. Therefore I do not accept the idea that being physically capable is exclusively masculine, no matter how heated my discussion regarding topics that involve them may be.

You're also right. I stopped caring what people thought a long time ago. I'll even admit that the reactions of so many have maybe caused me to underestimate people's capacity for kindness and understanding at times. It's not really a function of masculinity, it's a function of survival. Again survival is not mutually exclusive to masculinity, and dare I say it, women are far better equipped for any physical or mental means of survival than a man.

As far as caring about being a wimp? I am a wimp! I'd much prefer to avoid all physical confrontation if I can. I do not care how physically capable I am perceived as being by those that know me. I prefer to be perceived as less physically capable. I also recognize from experience that it's not always possible to avoid a physical confrontation though. So I come prepared, and try to help others be prepared as well, as much as I can with somewhat limited knowledge on certain subjects.

My preparedness translates into all aspects of my life. I learned that from my Grandpa. Nothing worse than needing something, and not having it.

[Marcia Blue]

[SIZE="3"] My closet is quite large. I can fit my wife, two sons, my best friend and his wife, one of my sons gg friends, and a dozen or so girls from my support/social group. I am not going to out myself to the world. I wish society was more open to TG people but that is not the case. My closet is more than large enough to twirl my skirt in and I am fine with that. Maybe the next generation will have a more broad view of people being "different". Until then a lot of us will have to live life, as we see safe. Safe in terms of our family and jobs, more than physical safety. At least in my world. [/SIZE]

[Badtranny]

Kaitlyn, I wasn't referring to you at all girl. That's funny, I wonder why you think that. Honestly, the recent new thread started by a new girl who wants to come out but is too scared is what got me thinking (and posting).

Marcia, This thread doesn't address girls like you. I'm specifically talking about those who WANT to come out by their own admission, but don't have the courage. I respect your decision to live your life as you see fit.

Please let's not let this thread derail into the closet or no closet debate. My observation is about macho guys who aren't scared of anyone, but still afraid to admit who they are.

[Jessica Ames]

I have to say, I'm not sure to what extent I want to come out. I have slowly moved into a more androgenous look as far as wearing my hair longer, wearing more femme tops and fem pants on a daily basis. I like to get done up, but I like the idea of not making such a clear cut between masc/fem. Does this make sense?

[Kaitlyn26]

Kaitlyn, I wasn't referring to you at all girl. That's funny, I wonder why you think that. Honestly, the recent new thread started by a new girl who wants to come out but is too scared is what got me thinking (and posting).

Ah, well it's something that I've been told before. I just thought I would offer an explanation anyways, and a possible reason why posters behave the way they do. Let's face it, most of us are armored up when it comes to how we have to deal with things. Many barriers exist within us, to ward off potential trouble. I think it may come off as masculine sometimes, especially online where you only get the very basics of communication between posters.

[StarrOfDelite]

I understand where you're headed on this post, and in large part I agree with you. On the other hand, I don't think that it is incumbent upon someone who has made a decision which is right in his/her life to insist that the same decision is correct in any other person's life for that reason alone.

I think there are valid reasons to not Come Out at work or to one's family if that gesture would endanger one's employment or one's relationships with his/her children or parents. Truth is NOT always the best policy, and in many instances telling the truth can be an act of selfish indulgence or a choice to take the easy way out.

I work in a job which requires business suits, broadcloth shirts, silk ties, and good leather shoes to project an image. I suppose I could trade all my clothes in on women's business suits,shoes, et cetera, and probably not get fired because in my state of employment gender discrimination is illegal. Do I want to go through that hassle, and the hassle of explaining myself to everyone with whom I do business? Hell no!

I go out to shop, dine and club as Ingrid, and don't give a flying f**k what some stranger or service industry person may think of a six foot tall, 150 pound "woman" with stringy muscles in her arms and shoulders and legs, who is wearing a Marine Corps ring, a masculine Omega watch, and smells of Obsession. But, I don't think everyone who CD's has to do that. I don't think I have a duty to carefully explain to the waiters, maitre d's, and butt-sniffing bohunks on the street that, "I am a transgendered person and look how brave I am to tell you that."

I admire what you have done with your life, and am happy that it is turning out well for you. I am not sure it's proper for you to say that every CD should emulate your example.

Edit: I read your responses to replies by Kaitlyn, Jessica and Marsha, and wanted to state that I didn't ever think you were referring to me, or people like me in your original post. I just meant to add my two cents to the effect that we shouldn't be too demanding.

For some reason, I am reminded of the scene in The Fellowship of the Ring where Frodo and the other eight Walkers have been chosen and there is a debate on whether they should swear an oath of loyalty, and one of the wise men says something to the effect that the burden of having sworn one's word might be enough extra weight to make a wavering person fail entirely. I interpret this to mean that we shouldn't demand more from people than an effort of which we know they are capable.

[Jessica86]

Since many have viewed, few have posted, I'll put my two cents in due to being in this situation. Most of the time, its not about the nuts/guts. Fear of the unknown. It's fear of the known. I know for a fact if my coworkers found out, I would be screwed. I am expected to show up and take charge as the man they know. My job demands it, and in my opinion, is the most demanding job when it comes to being in charge of a situation. I don't see a reason for them to know because they are not living with me. They do not need to know what happens behind closed doors. I came out to my wife, but not even my family knows I still do it. My mom knows I used to, but to me, it just isn't something to air in public. It's like talking to your parents about your sex life. Why? Anyway, I won't ever live as Jessica full time, so I don't see a need to share her with coworkers and friends. I love being my male side because I have my wife and my son to live with as a husband/father figure. If I was planning to get a sex change and be Jessica all of the time, I would tell my coworkers, friends, and family. It would be better than showing up to work one day as Jessica, and people going "Who is that?" Or knocking on my parent's door as Jessica one random day. Yeah. Then, there's a long story. I love the way it has worked out, and I am a firm believer that anyone can come out to anybody. Sometimes there are just circumstances where it would not be smart to do so, and others just simply don't need to know....like in my situation where I am a crossdresser and not planning to transition.

[Jessica Ames]

. Truth is NOT always the best policy, and in many instances telling the truth can be an act of selfish indulgence or a choice to take the easy way out.

+1

That one hit close to home. That's how I treated this years ago, and don't want to do the same thing again.

[Aprilrain]

. Truth is NOT always the best policy, and in many instances telling the truth can be an act of selfish indulgence or a choice to take the easy way out.

I disagree. Lying is never good. And not saying anything is lying by omission. I agree that people don't have to were signes on their back saying "I'm this or I'm that" and different people need different levels of personal information about our lives obviously a SO deserves our total honesty where as a cab driver only requires that you pay him at the end of the ride. however how easy would it be to apply this logic to say cheating. "Well it would be selfish of me to tell him I cheated on him because it would hurt his feelings and ruin the relationship" so on and so forth. How many GGs here say their biggest problem with the CDing was the years that they felt "lied to" because their SO "hid" this huge part of himself.
No I say lying is selfish and though the truth may hurt and you may lose something you value by saying it, the comfort one feels or the "possessions" one holds dear are not really yours to keep if they are held on to by dishonest means.

[Badtranny]

Again, this thread is NOT about those who don't want to come out. I honestly don't care how people live their lives and I'm certainly not saying that you should do what I do. I'm specifically speaking to CDs and I will be a legal woman in the next 12-18 months, so clearly my path is not the way of a CD.

I am talking directly to those who have openly wished they could come out and no one else.

Starr, the only thing I'm demanding is that people accept themselves for who they are. I want them to see that they are not freaks and they deserve to be happy.

[Jessica Ames]

I should have specified. I NEVER think you should keep anything from your SO. I feel like coming out to people that have no bearing on your happiness in how you present, can be self-serving.

April, you are very right, in that there is a major difference between a SO and a cabby (or whoever)

[AllieSF]

Melissa, are you talking about coming out of the closet to tell people that you are a CD, or to come out of the closet to go out and enjoy the real world, even if that means away from a self-defined safe zone? One thing is to tell family, friends and workmates that one CD's and another is to just go out and experience being away from home and into everyday life, at a T friendly place or anywhere else where oner may feel comfortable.. A clarification here might elicit more thread topic related responses.

[Badtranny]

A clarification here might elicit more thread topic related responses.

Good point Allie. I wish everybody here knew you because I think you are a perfect example of what I'm talking about.

Let me clarify. There is absolutely no reason for a cross dresser to show up at work in a skirt. I'm talking about hiding from yourself to an extent that your entire lifestyle basically revolves around keeping a secret.

If you are wishing you could come out, then do it. Push your boundaries, develop a circle of friends who know you and love you for who you are. Stop treating your expression like it's some dirty little secret. It's not, it's just a little different. Some guys love to knit, or quilt. Some guys love cake decorating or fashion designing. You love to play dress up and kick up your heels. It's an exploration of your humanity and it's beautiful. There is NO reason to be ashamed.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Please let's not let this thread derail into the closet or no closet debate. My observation is about macho guys who aren't scared of anyone, but still afraid to admit who they are.

While someone may be macho and all, in this day and age no man is an island. While they may not fear what what individuals think, they may have good reason to fear what others they are obligated or beholden to may do to them (such as lose their job in a time where they are very hard to find, or the government taking their kids, and so on.)

[Kaz]

While someone may be macho and all, in this day and age no man is an island. While they may not fear what what individuals think, they may have good reason to fear what others they are obligated or beholden to may do to them (such as lose their job in a time where they are very hard to find, or the government taking their kids, and so on.)

Well said Vickie... there are complexities, and I think this is bigger than just 'having the balls'... people who stay in the closet to protect their families have 'a lot of balls' in my opinion because they are putting loved ones first.

[Alice B]

There are a lot of variables as to what is in and out, based upon the individual. I am out to my entire family and extended family, which is quite large. Several close friends also know. Yet I am not out to most of my professional world from 3 different professions (all of which were deemed very macho) and to my golf buddies, which is also very large body of individuals. I've reached a balance that I am very comfortable and happy with. I don't want to come out to the rest because there is no need and nothing to gain. For me life is good.

[Frédérique]

Do you want to come out? Got balls?

[SIZE="2"]Got brain cells? That’s infinitely more preferable, IMHO… [/SIZE]

[Badtranny]

and I think this is bigger than just 'having the balls'..

Okay I give up. I see that the board insists on framing this as an "everybody come out" argument.

I clearly stated multiple times that I wanted to hear from those that WANT to come out but are too scared to consider it. I never said that everyone should want to and I certainly never said that anyone should endanger their families.

Alice, you're out as far as this discussion criteria, and you're happy. This thread is for those that are NOT happy and are maybe only out to their wives if that.

I thought there might be room for some constructive argument on that issue, but I guess not. :-(

[Kaz]

Holy shit... I do apologise if I have caused a problem... what 'board'? I am an equal member and you know it.

I do want to come out and I am too scared to consider it and therefore this is a valid area for discussion? If I am out of place I apologise! I really do not think that anything that I have posted should have caused offence.

There seems to me sometimes to be a real problem with accepting other's opinons...

[Jessica Ames]

Okay I give up. I see that the board insists on framing this as an "everybody come out" argument.

I clearly stated multiple times that I wanted to hear from those that WANT to come out but are too scared to consider it. I never said that everyone should want to and I certainly never said that anyone should endanger their families.

Alice, you're out as far as this discussion criteria, and you're happy. This thread is for those that are NOT happy and are maybe only out to their wives if that.

I thought there might be room for some constructive argument on that issue, but I guess not. :-(

Melissa. I think that this post may need a little time to soak in. There are many girls here (my assumption) that would love if they could be out, but as you know, it's a very scary thing at first. I think that many would rather pretend that they want to be closeted, when in reality they would love to get past the difficult part (haha). Maybe some here just need to be honest with themselves before they can be honest on the board. I know that I have shared the same feeling in the past and to a certain extent, now.

[NicoleScott]

Looks to me like another "you don't come out because you fear" thread presented from a different angle. Or maybe it's a "I came out and it worked for me so you should do it, too" thread.
A TS about to become a legal woman with no use for balls wants to know if CD's have the balls to come out. I guess I just don't understand why the question makes any sense.

[Aprilrain]

When I was hoping all this was was CDing it was desperation that finally caused me to tell my wife. She had an inkling so it wasn't a total shock! I also told a trusted friend who took it in stride. So I was sorely disappointed when that and my wife's indifference to my dressing turned out to not be enough. Couple that with a lack of understanding about myself and a BAD therapist and back in the closet it went. It was active denial and a feverish level of activity that allowed me to keep it bottled up for another five years. Predictably it all exploded back onto the scene about a year ago again driven by desperation.

[Barbara Dugan]

Let's talk about coming out of the closet

So what took me so long? Well my theory is I couldn't be honest with anyone else until I could be honest with myself. Basically, don't expect others to accept you when you can't even accept yourself. When I finally came to terms with who I was, coming out became almost easy. But, then again I would have never been mistaken for masculine, even when I was trying so hard to be.

I do really want to get out of the closet but I still have issues , I am still working on the acceptance part and overcome a lifetime of repressed feelings.

When I was a little kid growing up in Mexico, there was a transgender kid a few years older than me living in the same neighborhood and to said she had a difficult time is an understatement...she was a magnet for ridicule,beatings and discrimination from the other kids , even my older brother and his friends gave her a hard time and nobody stood up for her not even his own family..I had my own issues but if somebody tried to give me a hard time my brother stood up for me, he got into a few fights protecting me.
I believe being witness of what happen to her made me hide my feelings since early age because I rationalized that being a fairy only got you into trouble and even your own family won't love you.

[Schatten Lupus]

I was in that position, but then it sunk in that I would be a hypocrite to myself and what I stand for. And now I'm just thinking of how to come out and what to say, and hoping for the right time to come out to present itself but I'm starting to think the "right time" is just a fantasy. Right now though my only real issue is my dad is homophobic and my mom used to work with a transwoman and she said some pretty nasty things about her. But at the same time my family is so dysfunctional that they may not see as that bad since it won't be nearly as bad as what my older brother and sister have done, which includes going to prison, dealing drugs, having a child my girlfriend and I can't support and hardly take care of, eloping, and not alienating myself from the family so hopefully it won't be too bad. And my mom has always known there is something that has been deeply troubling me.