OMG.. seriously Kate?
Your suggestion is that girls decide to be lesbians because dating men is too hard? Seriously? This is your thesis?
Ok, I am going to say this slowly. Sexual. Preference. Is. Not. A. Choice.
Get it?
OMG.. seriously Kate?
Your suggestion is that girls decide to be lesbians because dating men is too hard? Seriously? This is your thesis?
Ok, I am going to say this slowly. Sexual. Preference. Is. Not. A. Choice.
Get it?
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
Dating men is easy! but maybe not if you're a B@#$%!Originally Posted by Hope
How do you figure this?Finally lets face it, lesbians are less likely to reject a TS girl than a straight man is.
"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind."
--Dr. Seuss
When I first heard about the existence of transsexuality I assumed that quite a lot of transwomen would be lesbian, because most males are attracted to women and I didn't see why that should change.
Yes, there are flaws with that line of reasoning, but at least I didn't assume that all transwomen would be androphilic like most people seem to.
Even more transwomen identify as bisexual than lesbian, and around 7% identify as asexual. (See the survey at http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds ) These are also out of proportion to the general population. Any hypothesis to answer this question must accomodate those facts as well.
And do you also suppose that cis lesbians just need to "learn to be with a man" in order to no longer be lesbian? If not, why do you make that claim for trans lesbians?
I read somewhere else that there are more straight men into "chicks with dicks" than there are transwomen to go around, but I'm entertaining the possibility that either, or both statistics are hokum.
Yes, Kate's theory is seriously flawed - picking up a guy would be too darn easy for me. And the
only reason I haven't done it myself yet is because I am not interested at this point in my transition.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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I totally believe this. There are a lot of guys who would date a pre-op as long as she was 100% passable. There are also plenty that date pre-ops that are almost passable like me ;-)
Exactly Melissa, I have actually had guys tell me that they have no
issue being with a pre-op girl just so long as you look like a woman.
Even new friends I meet don't know I am in transition unless I tell them,
so this crap that Katesback goes on with holds absolutely no water at all.
I like being with women because I connect better on an emotional level with them.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
But, isn't this the issue? The majority of men are OK with pre-op and not post-op? I don't know one way or the other, just repeating stuff I've read here over the years.
Reine
Interesting question......definitely deserves deep discussion. Let's not get hostile, though. It really is a worthy discussion for us all.
From my perspective, I cannot tell you how many TG girls like yourselves I've met, including being at conferences like Southern Comfort and Keystone, who are on HRT, and are going through/ or have gone through various stages of surgeries, and are also married, kids, etc.
If you want to debate the ratio of hetero vs. bi.vs. gay TS, that's fine. Maybe someday, researchers and doctors will find that magic number. The reality is TS that are attracted to either or both sexes, gender and sexual preference are two different topics, which Kellycan27 pointed out.
Could it be that transsexual sexuality is a form of sexuality itself? I keep hearing this word pansexual.
As for me, I'm attracted to all things fem, I'm attracted to women but I often think about crossing that river into femalehood all the time, even thought the path of transition is not for me. I'm happy to be on the road of laser & electro hair removal, though my wallet's not happy. I'm definitely lez in my own mind, and often feel that my guy sexuality is getting in the way, and sometimes wish it weren't there. But unless I do HRT and change the plumbing, the guy aspect of me is always there.
Last edited by NathalieX66; 10-05-2011 at 09:04 PM.
Hi Reine,
I don't think anyone can draw any conclusions about what men really do favour, however
there is definitely a lot more interest in pre-op trans-women thanks to 'she-male' porn.
My main concern about that is whether or not guys just see you as a fantasy they want to fulfil
or as someone who they can make a commitment to and want to have permanently in their lives.
I had a male house-mate awhile back who had the hots for me really bad, he knew I was pre-op and was telling
me not to have surgery. But he had this unrealistic fantasy where he wanted to have a trans-girlfriend but also
wanted to keep seeing other men as well - no f**king way, especially when I asked him if he always had safe sex.
His reply was 'Sometimes" - so who the hell wants to get mixed up with some stupid admirer or tranny chaser that
is going to put your live in danger with the threat of HIV & STIs we face in the world today?
Last edited by Melody Moore; 10-05-2011 at 09:09 PM.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
I have visited a number of TS social ( chat ) sites and I can tell you that a lot of the guys who visit with the express intent of meeting a TS seem to have more issues than the girls do. and there were plenty who were looking for "she males". This little song is a pretty good descriptive. video gamers, super hero's, cartoons, no or menial jobs....
http://youtu.be/7DGxXhVVxtM
Last edited by kellycan27; 10-05-2011 at 09:29 PM.
Hi Kelly,
I also found the same trend when I had it written up on my profile that I was TS on a social networking/dating site.
The interesting thing was all the guys who contacted me had listed their sexual orientations as "Straight". However
about 80% of them had no issues admitting to me they were either bisexual or bi-curious & had no issues about being
with someone like me. It was a very interesting and eye-opening exercise because many revealed they had repressed
gender issues and fantasies. Eventually I got sick of it and removed the info about my gender status from my profile.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
I think it may in fact be a trend. Whenever a new guy would join, he automatically became suspect. Why a TS instead of a GG? Are you looking for a girl with that "something" extra? Like it was almost expected. I think we would be way more likely to meet a quality guy out in the mainstream than on these TS social or dating sites. i think that "why do you want to meet a TS"? is an excellent question.
Last edited by kellycan27; 10-05-2011 at 09:49 PM.
Kelly, I can understand this happening on a TS Dating site, but I was on a regular social networking/dating
site which is what really surprised me most of all, because there there is a lot more natal women than trans
women they could choose from. So this is why it did shock me that so many straight guys are very interested
in pre-op trans women obviously because they wanted the best of both worlds in the one lover obviously.
Last edited by Melody Moore; 10-05-2011 at 09:53 PM.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
These guys aren't straight. They do want pre-ops or CDs for that something extra. And what's so sad about this, are the CDs who fool themselves into believing these admirers are treating them like women.
I've learned a lot from Alice (Richard) Novik, author of "Alice in Genderland". She's a psychiatrist, unapologetically trans (both genders ... for now. She does not discount future changes), and in an open marriage with a GG. She is also unapologetic about the sexual aspect of being trans.
This is what she has to say about admirers: http://aliceingenderland.com/Manhunt.html
Alice knows that many TSs criticize her though, because she does agree with the concept of autogynephilia (which she says is heterosexuality turned inward), although she does speaks of AGP more in terms of how it affects CDs than TSs. Her entire site is well worth reading: http://aliceingenderland.com. She has recently come out with a revision of her book.
Reine
First, let me state clearly that I fall into the Bi category. I think this is because I am greedy and just like both. I have read all the statics and theories of who likes what more pre-op or post-op. I can only speak for myself. As post-op I have never had a problem getting guys or women. I am to the point I can hardly remember ever being pre-op. As I recall, I never had any problem finding guys or girls. It's not so much the equipment but how you use it that matters
. More importantly it is your personality and how you talk to and treat people. Keep in mind, I have never been on an online dating site. I haven't needed to. I have had all I can handle just by walking and talking to people.
You're absolutely correct in my experience, Reine. Mature males just AREN'T "bi curious" if they're straight! As a late dresser who went thru a prolonged, "If I like wearing dresses, I must be gay", stage, I finally realized I'm not. Because there's never been ANYTHING about males that I find attractive. Other than my early fantasies of a man treating me like a woman!
It's a lot like dressing. Many have been fascinated with fem and dressing thots from an early age. However, as an apparently vanilla straight male well into my 50's, the thot of trying on ladies things before then never entered my mind! In my experience, mature males, never mind what kind of clothing they r wearing, r not entirely straight if they want to fool around with a penis!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Guess I'm a lucky one that found a guy that is ok with me being pre-op, but would rather me be post-op. But he is one of the rare ones that sees people for who they are, not what they are.
very true... i have seen it twice now.. the guy supports the pre op girls transition, and as soon as srs happens, its the beginning of the end.. it highlights the depth and strength of our internal gender identities and sexuality... i can only speculate why the guys left, but the obvious reason is they realized that their "girl", really was a WOMAN and that's not what they really wanted.. it happens to wives and girlfriends of ts women as well who want to support the transition, only to find they can't...
not every time, but the majority of the time...
Well, I think it's pretty simple really. The men who prefer TS's have homosexual tendencies but they just can't come to grips with it. They think they're straight because they don't like masculine men, in fact they like us to be as feminine as possible except for that one little thing. Some of them are very creepy largely because of the closeted nature of their sexuality, but many of them seem very well adjusted.
Oh, one more thing, the majority of men who are interested enough to chat with me online, lose interest rather quickly when they find out that I have no interest in topping them.
Happened to me everytime when I was pre-op and looked for a boyfriend on the Internet while advertising myself as trans. I found it supprising at first, but then realised it was quite ubiquitous.
It's Frances with an E, like Frances Farmer. Francis is a man's name.
The other thing Alice Novic suggests is that admirers are living vicariously through the TGs in their lives because they are frustrated TGs themselves, in denial. Alice believes it is only a matter of time before the boyfriend wants to be as pretty as his partner. Generally speaking.
Reine
I came across a few guys on the site I mentioned that wanted someone to teach them how to dress up
and be all girly. But I have met a few crossdressers who are thinking about gender transition & I introduced
one of those people to this forum & who is a member now to learn more about being transgendered and to
explore where they might fit in to the gender spectrum.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
Find me on Facebook
one time at a trans event, a guy hit on me multiple times...about the 4th time we talked, he pulled out a bunch of pictures of himself all made up at a transformation salon...
he claimed he did it "for a lark", and that he was not gay and not a crossdresser..."OMG no!!" he said when i told him he was....
in the end, its important i think to realize that it may be simply another manifestation of the same thing crossdressers experience...they are just coping in their own way..they can't bring themselves to dress or admit they want..
crossdressing is inherently sexual, and they deserve the same amount of courtesy and respect that any crossdresser deserves..some people don't like that idea but i don't see how you can get around it..it touches on the whole idea of "my kind of crossdressing is ok, but yours is not" and the idea that crossdressing is highly sexual..both third rails...
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