Opinions on SRS?

[Melody Moore]

Now ... if post-ops are arguing in favor of reality and they're rather pointing out that non-ops would be sent to a male prison, that's fine. But, other than passing on legal information, why does it matter so much what someone else chooses to do with their life? The arguments about this get rather intense here and some comments are downright insulting.

Reine that is what I cannot work out about some of the post ops here, is why can't they simply respect a
person's right to live how ever they feel is right for them? While I don't necessarily agree with their decisions
I am in no position to judge them or try and tell them what to do. And you are right, some of the comments
here are very insulting, even to me and I fully intend to have GRS/SRS as soon as I have saved enough money.

Irrespective of GRS/SRS I still have friends from all walk of life, even the local Mayor and other Cairns Regional Council
are now good friends with me. I also know lots of LGBTIQ people, but I also know a lot more of every-day heterosexual
people as well and that is also who live with by the way. My life is no different to any other woman, noone treats me
any differently, I get straight guys coming up kissing and cuddling me without any problems, some of whom even know
I am pre-op, but they don't even think about that or let it be an issue. So where is the handicap by not having GRS/SRS?

But having said that, I am not saying that there won't be benefits for me to have surgery because I know that it is right
for me. The reality is I am in no position to say that it is right for someone else and I won't go putting them on guilt trips
or trying to make them feel bad because they don't share the same ideology as me. In fact I see there are other reasons
behind why my view point is also different - while it isn't perfect yet, I do live in a more accepting society that isn't so
judgemental about other people for a start, and a place where there are laws in place to protect gender rights.

Attitudes towards transgender people and the laws that protect or incarcerate them vary from state to state and
country to country. So these generalised statement don't help anyone to understand the the true reality of being
a woman, these are completely unnecessary statements intended to put fear into pre-op transsexual females.

It is NOT always true that you get sent to a male prison if you a pre-op MtF Transsexual, they have tried that here
and realised it wasn't a good idea after a trans woman hung herself after being repeatedly raped here in Australia. So
human rights groups have stepped in some time ago to make sure that never happens again. Pre-op trans-women are
housed in the correct facility that matches there legal gender identity. You only need to be legally identified in your
documentation, such as a drivers licence with the gender marker changed to be able to do that. Today you can even
have your passport changed. So if you can be legally identified as a female, then you will go to a female prison here.

I also refused to allow the hospital to put me in any wards with males when I was in hospital late last year when they
first questioned me about my change in gender to my medical records. I showed them my new female ID and their attitude
changed in an instant. They gave a private room in female surgical wards so I even more comfortable. Also the Ambulance
crew who transported me to hospital and all the staff were fantastic. I was so treated with all the respect and courtesy of
a lady the whole time - no discrimination ever anywhere

So yeah, I still want to know where the big handicap in my life as a woman is because I haven't had my GRS/SRS yet?

[chloe23]

Reine that is what I cannot work out about some of the post ops here, is why can't they simply respect a
person's right to live how ever they feel is right for them? While I don't necessarily agree with their decisions
I am in no position to judge them or try and tell them what to do. And you are right, some of the comments
here are very insulting, even to me and I fully intend to have GRS/SRS as soon as I have saved enough money.

I agree with you on this Melody. People should respect one another for their personal decisions. We all have different personalities, think different, our emotions are different, but we should respect one another.

As someone who has lived on both sides of the fence, i don't think it's fair to insult anybody for their personal choices. This is suppose to be a support site for Pre-Op's and Post-op's. Everyone has a right to their own opinion, but don't do it in an insulting way. Transition was very hard and expensive for me so i know where I'm coming from.

[Sophora]

Maybe you were onto something when ya said "too mentally unstable". Perhaps thats a good reason for a lot of people to not get srs.

Post op girls why are you argueing with the pre girls? You remember what its like being pre. You remember how you knew it all, had your doors closed off to disending opinions, you remember that. These people KNOW what they are talking about because they have crystal balls. They are like teenagers back talking to thier parents thinking they know it all. Of course if your post op you know they are full of it but hey let them ramble on about how they know what they are talking about. It is truely entertaining. What is sad thought is that some of these know it all people become activits and trans mommies and guide the new recruits. That makes me cringe thinking about all the poor advice and informantion being spread. I wonder how many new recruits are learning that a "steady stream of post op girls are getting thier vaginas closed".

You do know that it isn't all of the pre-ops that doing this right? There are plenty of us pre-ops that soak in every bit of information that obtained and use it. however, there are some of pre-ops that have to save and do things at the pace of whatever money we have. I have a lot of other stuff to worry about right now then whether or not I have the money to get a surgery that is the equivalent of buying a new car(it can be be more than that tho). If I was independently wealthy, I would be on hormones by now and have my surgery schedule for christmas time next year or my birthday(which is a little over 6 months sooner). Alas, I am not. I have a lot to deal with before I get to that point.

However, I do wonder why most tranpeople want to just "pass" at being the other gender whether than being that gender. for me I would rather "be" a woman then "pass" as one(including having the right equipment). But this is just me, I can't speak for anyone else tho.

[Starling]

...I do wonder why most tranpeople want to just "pass" at being the other gender whether than being that gender. for me I would rather "be" a woman then "pass" as one(including having the right equipment)...

Gender is not the same as sex. "Passing" is just another way of saying "being accepted as." There are, for instance, a small number of post-op women who live as men. Their sex is female, but they "pass" for male. And many FTMs live as men without having bottom surgery, because it is not as successful as MTF SRS.

Nonetheless, I can't deny that it's better to have congruent equipment for any number of reasons, both practical and emotional, and I believe it when post-ops say it's an epiphany. I'd love to wake up in the recovery room with a brand-new vagina; and the reason I want one is that I'm already a woman.

Lallie

[Frances]

Nonetheless, I can't deny that it's better to have congruent equipment for any number of reasons, both practical and emotional, and I believe it when post-ops say it's an epiphany. I'd love to wake up in the recovery room with a brand-new vagina; and the reason I want one is that I'm already a woman.

I did not wake up feeling any different. As a matter of fact, I did not wake up at all, the surgery was done under epidural, and I was awake the whole time. The epiphany came slowly over time as I started lowering the shield I had built up from being an incongruent woman who passed very well while knowing and feeling that something was very different.

As I did not have to protect a secret identity (and this is done subconsciouly), I started really interacting with the world as a woman, freely and without guilt. I am still learning everyday what it means to be a woman in various situations. And this happened because I no longer focused on physical transition. Before, I would stand back a little and think about the things that had to be done in my transition instead of being in the moment. Now, I am ready to open up, figuratively and literally.

[Starling]

Thank you so much for that, Frances.

Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

yes frances thank you...

for some reason knowing that if all my clothes fell off in the middle of the mall i would still be considered a woman is very comforting to me...its not an active thought...

another thing i feel is that over the years, i never ever ever felt attractive to anyone, forget how i looked at myself...i could buff up, get fat, whatever, it made me uncomfortable when people looked at me...how sad..

now i enjoy being looked at, and although its unlikely, it feels possible that someone would actually be attracted to me...i'd be excited if someone felt attracted to me instead of ashamed..

these are just different ways of saying the same thing i think...

[Aprilrain]

I did not wake up feeling any different. As a matter of fact, I did not wake up at all, the surgery was done under epidural, and I was awake the whole time. The epiphany came slowly over time as I started lowering the shield I had built up from being an incongruent woman who passed very well while knowing and feeling that something was very different.

As I did not have to protect a secret identity (and this is done subconsciouly), I started really interacting with the world as a woman, freely and without guilt. I am still learning everyday what it means to be a woman in various situations. And this happened because I no longer focused on physical transition. Before, I would stand back a little and think about the things that had to be done in my transition instead of being in the moment. Now, I am ready to open up, figuratively and literally.

I really appreciate it when a Post Op takes the time to explain their personal experience with SRS or life after SRS it really helps me. I can totally relate to the feels of guilt! and when i see my male body I think "what's the use or who do I think I'm kidding" it must be powerfully reassuring to KNOW that all the parts right and to see that with your own eyes and feel it with your own hands not just imagine how it would be, how it SHOULD be!

[Kathryn Martin]

I don't think sex and gender are the same thing, Kathryn. Where did you get that in what I said? I think I'm pretty much like you, except you're further along and have a supportive SO. I began seeking congruence long before I knew the special TS sense of the word, and I never use the term "feminine." I avoid trying to be feminine, if that means to mimic stereotypic female behavior. I have learned to trust my core.

I dress in order to help being accepted as the woman I am, and my next milestone will be dressing full time. I seek to reify myself in every way I can. I consider myself pre-op, until the universe says otherwise.

Lallie

I thought that you would say what you said here. I think that one of the most difficult things to understand though is the complete change of body chemistry, which essentially begins after surgery (i.e. the difference between suppressed testosterone and absence of testosterone), the dismantling of male sexual aggression and the building of female sexual surrender, and finally the disrobing from male privilege. Many of the experiences that I have had over the last year and a quarter is as if I am immersed in content but incapable of yet speaking the language. Being a woman since as far back as I can remember, I relied on learned behavior to meet the expectations that my world confronted me with. Now at times I feel like a lost child because I have to learn the language to express what I never could express before. That, I believe is the "hard work" that begins after all of the congruence issues and steps have been completed.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I thought that you would say what you said here. I think that one of the most difficult things to understand though is the complete change of body chemistry, which essentially begins after surgery (i.e. the difference between suppressed testosterone and absence of testosterone), the dismantling of male sexual aggression and the building of female sexual surrender, and finally the disrobing from male privilege. Many of the experiences that I have had over the last year and a quarter is as if I am immersed in content but incapable of yet speaking the language. Being a woman since as far back as I can remember, I relied on learned behavior to meet the expectations that my world confronted me with. Now at times I feel like a lost child because I have to learn the language to express what I never could express before. That, I believe is the "hard work" that begins after all of the congruence issues and steps have been completed.

Kathryn that was a very lurid and compelling post...
dismantling the male sexual aggression...female sexual surrender are not how I would describe it,
making it about sexual surrender is i think something you may be more focused on than many..or else i am focused on it less than many!!! LOL

anyway, I think maybe the basic concept of destruction of something that was an incredible burden....(its a huge weight, which is probably something every single person can agree on!!even though we are all VERY different) and then the creation of something else that replaces it....and its not a burden at all, and then completeness..and then life. makes sense , right??

[Jessinthesprings]

For me, the surgery has always been something I've wanted. At times it was more important than anything, but as I have grown older I have realized that what is in my pants is not the first thing people see. So my primary focus is FFS right now. I would prefer to blend in as much as possible. I know what is inside but, there is nothing worse than being treated like a man in dress. Is hideing the deformaty uncomfortable? You bet. But, at this point in time there are more pressing concerns.

[Kathryn Martin]

Kathryn that was a very lurid and compelling post...
dismantling the male sexual aggression...female sexual surrender are not how I would describe it,
making it about sexual surrender is i think something you may be more focused on than many..or else i am focused on it less than many!!! LOL

anyway, I think maybe the basic concept of destruction of something that was an incredible burden....(its a huge weight, which is probably something every single person can agree on!!even though we are all VERY different) and then the creation of something else that replaces it....and its not a burden at all, and then completeness..and then life. makes sense , right??

Yes Kaitlyn, right, one caveat though "female sexual surrender", wrong language for what I am attempting to express it is not about sexual surrender but creating the space to be filled, not physically, but an opening emotion, a gesture. It is my gesture but in a sense I cannot execute it yet....

[Melody Moore]

Thanks for your reply Frances.

You raise a very important issue and the reason behind why I personally want GRS/SRS. I do feel
uncomfortable about being pre-op but I do not feel at all guilty about it, because I know it was
never my choice why I am the way I am. As far as I am concerned, people either deal with it of
they don't. This is the way I have learnt to cope with it and feel as happy and comfortable as I
can be while I am still pre-op. I really don't see any sense at all in making life anymore harder than
it already is. Being pre-op hasn't really presented itself as any sort of a hurdle for me and the only
time I really feel any grief about it is when I am on this forum and we get into these long drawn
out arguments about this issue.

I just got a message from a member of this forum who shall remain unnamed just sent me this PM and I think it really highlights how
uncomfortable some of the post-op girls make others who are are also struggling to feel. This is a really sad reflection of how helpful
certain members of this forum really are...

I just wanted to say thank you for your posts. I have a lot of respect for you, and you seem very well informed. I probably won't be posting in the transsexual forum anymore, (I simply can't stomach the "it's my way or your a freak" mentality of so many there.) But, I wanted to let you know, it's refreshing to see your posts that are thought out and well informed.

Frances, I really appreciate the way you have reached inside to bring your inner most feelings out and put it
in a context where others will listen to why you are much happier after having GRS/SRS. You have never once
tried to belittle others with any of your comments and I really do appreciate that. However there are a few here
I think that need to tone it right down in how they speak to other members of this forum because it only serves
to drive other people away.

So thank you Xx

[Sophora]

You raise a very important issue and the reason behind why I personally want GRS/SRS. I do feel
uncomfortable about being pre-op but I do not feel at all guilty about it, because I know it was
never my choice why I am the way I am. As far as I am concerned, people either deal with it of
they don't. This is the way I have learnt to cope with it and feel as happy and comfortable as I
can be while I am still pre-op. I really don't see any sense at all in making life anymore harder than
it already is.

*hugs* Melody you are truly my sister. This is how I feel. I wish I could communicate that better than I do. I live my life as a woman now regardless of what the gender markers say. I have never had to deal with some of the bigotry(except from within my own family...grrr)from the outside world that a lot of the girls here do. I get "ma'am" and "she" all the time now even when I am not dressed. Maybe that is why I don't even think about "passing" and just be whom I am. and yes I do want SRS/GRS and would love it sooner than later but alas no money.

[Starling]

...the dismantling of male sexual aggression and the building of female sexual surrender, and finally the disrobing from male privilege...

God, I look forward to all that, Kathryn. After a childhood of "sissy" taunts, and defending a manhood I didn't feel, pre-op or post-op I don't much fear being verbally abused for proudly wearing the clothing that should have been my birthright.

Lallie

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Yes Kaitlyn, right, one caveat though "female sexual surrender", wrong language for what I am attempting to express it is not about sexual surrender but creating the space to be filled, not physically, but an opening emotion, a gesture. It is my gesture but in a sense I cannot execute it yet....

I hear what you are saying...i'm thinking though that its not really about sex...sex is good, and you are right to say that as a woman it makes sense that you would feel natural about being penetrated...something maybe a gg would take for granted..
however, i'm sure some gg's may not like it at all..but it doesnt mean they are not women!

I was thinking of it as the Penis symbolizes/represents/outwardly id's a MALE...your makeup , your long hair, your clothes, even your "femininity and girliness" are just traits...
some people get concerned with their rugged nature, or that they love football or socket wrenches...these are traits..

and the vagina is the same for a female...we represent our genders by our sex organs....we express our genders by using our sex organs in a sexual way...

this is an internal and external thing...sure people don't see your penis , but you know its there, and it represents to YOU that you are male...even though you know you are female...and so destroying it seems pretty important, as does replacing it with something that id's your gender...

this is why i don't concern myself with the idea of whether srs is really enough, or whether there are less invasive ways to transition...
i don't care that i don't have a cervix or a female size body organ because the basic symbol of womanhood is a vagina...

it doesnt make me a woman...but it allows me to represent my womanhood in a way that every single person on planet earth instinctively and unquestionably understands

[GirlieAmanda]

I really appreciate this section myself. I consider myself a transsexual but am trying to deal with how to live with it and how to do things about it. I am right on the cusp of taking hormones and am in therapy. This is such a crucial time for me. I feel that I have begun transition already with things I have done. I really like to hear what people who have gone through with transition have experienced. It is very valuable, inspirational and eye opening. Sadly, I still am sensing a kind of hierarchy from some here though. These people seem to imply that if you are not 100% committed and will stop at nothing till you have HRT, FFS, SRS, decades of RLE and the whole deal, then you are just a dreamer or not serious enough. I hear about the hard life it is being a TS. It concerns me greatly. The choice for me is: Stay in a safe but crappy gender limbo land and be unhappy till death. Or transition, possibly losing everything but feel whole inside thus making me happier, I hope, while gaining new friends and family or regaining these people. It is an extremely tough choice. SRS is VERY serious and expensive too. Hormones are fairly cheap. A lot of trans girls do not go through with SRS because of money, not wanting to risk major surgery, regret, family, work, etc. I consider a person on hormones a person who has transitioned if that is where they want to stay. There is no hierarchy to me. There shouldn't be. I urge the TS militants to ease up and work together for everyone from the fully transitioned to the dreamers. They just may need some guidance.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

you say amanda the choice is to be unhappy till death vs live in safe but crappy limbo.. that is a big deal, and i think its good to talk about it
there are alot of comments here that say "hey...srs works to get you out of crappy limbo land!!!",...and many times they are taken as "hey i'm better than you!!!"

and i must admit that sometimes posts seem like they are saying "im better....."
if the poster is somebody that lords things over other people...that is not about srs or not srs...it is about the person...

[GirlieAmanda]

Well its really safe but crappy vs. brave, happy but potentially shitty. I am very interested in the talk about how SRS really changes your life. I can see that. I was always under the impression that it was just a completing step or icing on the cake. It sounds like its so much more. The way Stephanie S described it was incredible. I have not heard that kind of description before.

[Noemi]

This is an amazing thread.
I am in the beginning of seriously considering taking action. I do not consider myself as just a cd'er because i know what I feel, and have always felt, that I am a woman...but here I am.
I am going to read this thread again. This is so very helpful to me, really. I know you all are just writing what you feel, but really you are helping me so much as it is time in my life to gather information, and here is the information, I know the truth when I read it/see it/ hear it. The truth is the highest thought, selfless and strong..one true.
Amazing. And Thank you again!!!

[MackenzieMarigold]

In a sense, I'm happy that I messed up the wording in the opening post, because I really learned a lot from this thread. It made me think. Somewhere down the line I'll know what I want to do, but I now realize I won't know that anytime soon. It means a lot that i can see everyone's opinion like this, and it makes me think about myself more than I have in a long time. I hope I'm not the only one that will learn from this.

Thank you. ALL of you.

[chloe23]

In a sense, I'm happy that I messed up the wording in the opening post, because I really learned a lot from this thread. It made me think. Somewhere down the line I'll know what I want to do, but I now realize I won't know that anytime soon. It means a lot that i can see everyone's opinion like this, and it makes me think about myself more than I have in a long time. I hope I'm not the only one that will learn from this.

Thank you. ALL of you.

I am glad you learned something and don't ever hesitate to ask questions............

[Katesback]

My dear srs is the beginning of transition. Once you have it the days of being pre op were your training days. Your days to learn and observe and do your best to present the woman you feel you are but all the while your not because your male.

Once you have srs you really begin transition because that is the time when you with luck learn to be a real woman and walk away from the confines of being a trans woman. This journey is filled with major challenges and joys and times when the light bulb goes off and you say wow I never felt that way before.

I am not saying these events happen to all post op girls because some never get there for a variety of reasons.

What I can say with certainty is that you will never experience this transition till the day you have srs (orchie does not count).
You can ramble on and on about how you are a woman and all but the real fact of life is after you have srs you will completely understand what I and the other post op girls are saying. Like it or not.

Well its really safe but crappy vs. brave, happy but potentially shitty. I am very interested in the talk about how SRS really changes your life. I can see that. I was always under the impression that it was just a completing step or icing on the cake. It sounds like its so much more. The way Stephanie S described it was incredible. I have not heard that kind of description before.

[GirlieAmanda]

My dear srs is the beginning of transition. Once you have it the days of being pre op were your training days. Your days to learn and observe and do your best to present the woman you feel you are but all the while your not because your male.

Once you have srs you really begin transition because that is the time when you with luck learn to be a real woman and walk away from the confines of being a trans woman. This journey is filled with major challenges and joys and times when the light bulb goes off and you say wow I never felt that way before.

I am not saying these events happen to all post op girls because some never get there for a variety of reasons.

What I can say with certainty is that you will never experience this transition till the day you have srs (orchie does not count).
You can ramble on and on about how you are a woman and all but the real fact of life is after you have srs you will completely understand what I and the other post op girls are saying. Like it or not.

This has really affected my thinking. I have thought about what you said. I think I am in your camp about SRS. It HAS to be so incredible. I mean, you have a vagina for God's sake. That is the quintessential for a person like me. I have read on this forum about how people have said it is an afterthought or icing in the cake because they have already have been a woman in their minds for so long. BUT, what you are describing to me is such a difference in one's life. It is way different. Just to look at your body in the mirror and see a complete woman standing there must be an incredibly powerful feeling. I have dreamed of that so many times as have all of us probably. I have definitely had a revelation here. I hope with all my heart that I can get to experience what you have experienced.

[ValRom]

Just to look at your body in the mirror and see a complete woman standing there must be an incredibly powerful feeling.

I look in the mirror and I see an aging body, a tummy that's too big, I go through "god, what am I going to do with this hair?", teeth that could use whitening, eyebrows that need to be waxed [again], just why didn't I get that nose job?, is that eyebrow lower than the other?, I wish I could do something about the dark circles, etc. Somehow all these observations are important now where they might have been something less before.

I'm having probs getting an appointment with a gyn - I have a list of trans-friendly gyns that I'm working from.

What is different and powerful for me is that the nagging, persistent issue of will I/won't I is gone. I am. Whatever now happens - good or bad - is because I have control. Some of it is bad, for certain. Relationships can take a tumble down the hill - you may have thought transition took care of that, that it weeded out the keepers from the drifters, but not entirely.

Someone earlier in the thread (katesback?) mentioned that she couldn't be a cheerleader. I understand her point entirely.

Pre-op I wouldn't have wished my condition on my friends or enemies; post-op I'm still of the same opinion.

Do I regret I had the surgery? No!