My opinion on acceptance

[elizabethamy]

I think for many the process of self discovery starts with the eroticism, the sexual thrill of cd'ing for the first time...if, as in my case, it's late in life, you want to participate in that and you find others like you on the Net. But typically one progresses beyond the thrilll toward the seeking of wholeness of the person, which is achieved by getting in touch with the feminine self, which for us expresses itself by dressing.

So I don't look down on those sites -- I look beyond them, as in, that's what I thought interested me for a while and then I began to understand what it was really about...now, it's really not sexual at all except within my marriage, which is where it belongs. In fact, when I first discovered those sites and the relentless aspect of dressed-gay-male dating that dominates them, I doubted that CD's were really heterosexuals, and began to wonder if I was. But I quickly felt that these were not my people, and that I was something else. So in that way spending time on those sites was useful for me, as it surely is for many. For still others, though, the sexual fetish aspect of crossdressing is all there is, was, and ever will be. My hunch is that for many crossdressing men it's a "gateway" toward the more grownup results of the process.

And I do agree that such sites don't represent who we are to the rest of the world very well at all. It will be a great day when the ads on this site are for Chevrolets and Target and J.Jill. That will mean we have entered the mainstream of society, at least commecially. (Hanes really ought to buy in here, don't you think?)

[carhill2mn]

I share your feelings completely. If a person wants to dress that way at home but, why post the photos?

[kellycan27]

I share your feelings completely. If a person wants to dress that way at home but, why post the photos?

Probably because they enjoy them, and apparently so do some others...

[Vickie_CDTV]

I sincerely hope that I have misunderstood what you wrote here, Vickie. There is nothing fetishistic about being transsexual.

I understand that, and I was actually saying the exact opposite. I was thinking of the Harry Benjamin Gender Orientation Scale (or the Watson Gender Identity Scale), with fetish TVism at one end and TSism at the other.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Benjamin_scale

[Kaz]

I understand that, and I was actually saying the exact opposite. I was thinking of the Harry Benjamin Gender Orientation Scale (or the Watson Gender Identity Scale), with fetish TVism at one end and TSism at the other.

https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Benjamin_scale

Trying to be positive about this exchange I think this highlights how sensitive we all are.. which is a good thing as we are all trying to understand and explain to each other so that we do raise our awareness of who we are in all our diversity. I know I have offended people unintentionally, but I would rather we speak out, get slapped and then respond positively than conform to a generic sub-culture.

This site is unique in my experience and is the only site I am a member of. We are all trying to learn more about who we are and why we are and so on... we are all looking for our different paths and I think the diversity is fantastic and to be cherished.

Should this diversity also bring in the sexual fetish side of the equation? Any true 'community' will self-police itself and exclude the unwanted. I have no problem with accepting fetish CDing (or whatever term we use) for sexual gratification as being a human right and accept that terms like wierdos might be offensive... but I also accept that the poster's intent may not have been as malicious it sounded. It is really about defining our boundaries of what is acceptable for this community... and, with the exception of the links already discussed, this site is just amazing and if it went... I would be devastated!

[Proteus]

Is it possible that these people have a bit of a compound fetish?

It would be hypocrisy to mandate that one must only dress with a "pure mind", but I don't think it's expected of us to embrace exhibitionism as well.

[Rianna Humble]

I sincerely hope that I have misunderstood what you wrote here, Vickie. There is nothing fetishistic about being transsexual.

I understand that, and I was actually saying the exact opposite. I was thinking of the Harry Benjamin Gender Orientation Scale (or the Watson Gender Identity Scale), with fetish TVism at one end and TSism at the other.

Thank you for the clarification, Vickie. I am happy to acknowledge that I had indeed misunderstood what you had written. I'm glad that my hope was not in vain.

[Kate T]

This is what I would like to know. Why do you all think the CDs who hang out in these other forums cannot get past the sexual fetish aspect?

I know we're like a little island here. Why is this? Why are there so many others who seem to be interested in the CDing just for sex? Are they repressing something?

Guesses:
1. "fetishistic" sites membership has a much younger age profile with more testosterone fuelled fantasies.
2. Many of the fetishistic type sites have no membership requirements so are easier to "browse" for someone who is still suppressing gender identity issues.
3. Gender identity has to many sylables in it for people on those sites to say let alone discuss
4. Like our society generally nowadays, those sites cater for a quick "high" / release as opposed to the hard work and emotional investment required for a respectful, caring, loving sexual relationship.

Our society is filled with sexualisation and belittlement particularly of women. Have a look at "Bratz" dolls. targeted at 4 yr old +, there is no way I would let my daughter even at 18 years old go out looking like those dolls do! (OK, so I'm an overprotective father and I'm still trying to find a convent for them to go to school that is approximately 200miles from anywhere ).

Reactionary conservatism is not necessarily the answer but as a society I think we need to assess who this sexual "freedom" truly helps, versus how many it hurts, if not directly then indirectly.

[jillleanne]

This is what I would like to know. Why do you all think the CDs who hang out in these other forums cannot get past the sexual fetish aspect?

I know we're like a little island here. Why is this? Why are there so many others who seem to be interested in the CDing just for sex? Are they repressing something?

This is where we need to be careful with how we speak of this. The terrible 'labels' strike again. The original post indicates 'crossdressers', but we need to be careful as the members of the sites she speaks of may not label themselves as "heterosexual cd's". They may label themselves as transexuals, or any other label within the gender enhanced spectrum. This forum differs in that it is moderated constantly, sets guidlines that must be adhered to, etc. The 'sex' sites do nothing that remotely resemble this site. Some people who may identify as cd's but more than likely identify as TS, prefer the other sites mainly because the act of sexual gratification, whether real or in fantasy, is all they want and need in their lives at the moment. They have no desire to discuss fem things, post pics of how well they have improved their efforts in presenting the fem look, or discuss tips or techniques. It's not they cannot get past the sexual thing but rather, they do not want to get past the sexual thing at this stage in their lives. To them, IT is all about the sex and nothing more. The clothing brings them closer to the reality of identifying as or being with a woman, albeit with extra luggage, if only a fantasy. Not ever having been a gg, I cannot speak for them, but as a gm, I would surmise if a truthful survey of cd's/TS's was done, 99.9% would admit they have a higher than usual sexual drive/masterbation so it comes as no surprise to me there are so many on adult sites expressing their form of gender expression mixed with sex. I do not think they are repressing anything so much as, they feel where they are currently in the spectrum is where they want to be. The thrill of the fantasy if you will, provides them with enough self gratification in a safe enviroment(home) and knowing the internet protects them from the real world and any destructive behavior they have no control over.
As for sites targeting others such as transexuals for membership, I would be surprised if those identifying as "cd's" stick around for long.
I have spent almost 50 minutes writing/editing this post trying to prevent from being mean or disrespectful to anyone who does not identify as a heterosexual crossdresser. If I have, I apologize. It was not my intention. One could write volumes on this topic.

[msginaadoll]

Well to me we are all the same and we are all different. Just because we share one thing in common does not mean we are at all alike. I think this is generally a great site, but its not perfect. No site is and no person is. We all come here for different reasons. I like this the best of any forum Ive been to. I also am a meber of the chat site mentioned at the top. There are a number of sites involved from anything goes to generally respectable and respectful ones.

[kellycan27]

This is where we need to be careful with how we speak of this. The terrible 'labels' strike again. The original post indicates 'crossdressers', but we need to be careful as the members of the sites she speaks of may not label themselves as "heterosexual cd's". They may label themselves as transexuals, or any other label within the gender enhanced spectrum. This forum differs in that it is moderated constantly, sets guidlines that must be adhered to, etc. The 'sex' sites do nothing that remotely resemble this site. Some people who may identify as cd's but more than likely identify as TS, prefer the other sites mainly because the act of sexual gratification, whether real or in fantasy, is all they want and need in their lives at the moment. They have no desire to discuss fem things, post pics of how well they have improved their efforts in presenting the fem look, or discuss tips or techniques. It's not they cannot get past the sexual thing but rather, they do not want to get past the sexual thing at this stage in their lives. To them, IT is all about the sex and nothing more. The clothing brings them closer to the reality of identifying as or being with a woman, albeit with extra luggage, if only a fantasy. Not ever having been a gg, I cannot speak for them, but as a gm, I would surmise if a truthful survey of cd's/TS's was done, 99.9% would admit they have a higher than usual sexual drive/masterbation so it comes as no surprise to me there are so many on adult sites expressing their form of gender expression mixed with sex. I do not think they are repressing anything so much as, they feel where they are currently in the spectrum is where they want to be. The thrill of the fantasy if you will, provides them with enough self gratification in a safe enviroment(home) and knowing the internet protects them from the real world and any destructive behavior they have no control over.
As for sites targeting others such as transexuals for membership, I would be surprised if those identifying as "cd's" stick around for long.
I have spent almost 50 minutes writing/editing this post trying to prevent from being mean or disrespectful to anyone who does not identify as a heterosexual cross dresser. If I have, I apologize. It was not my intention. One could write volumes on this topic.

A lot of cder's post about sexual fantasies right here and as you mentioned.. They can only get away with so much .. so I for one think that these sexual sites would probably attract those heterosexuals who would in deed like to write and read about them.I have seen way more "fantasy" threads posted by the 80% hetero cder's here, than in the section where the members identify as TS. You are right about one thing.. Ts oriented sites lose the cder's because those sites are geared more towards tS issues than they are regarding what color panties one is wearing or being the "second" bride at their wedding.

[Rianna Humble]

This is where we need to be careful with how we speak of this.
...
I would surmise if a truthful survey of cd's/TS's was done, 99.9% would admit they have a higher than usual sexual drive/masterbation

All I can say about this is that you must know a completely different group of TS folk to me. I'm pretty sure that if you took a poll amongst the TS fold in that part of this site your theory would be shot to pieces in no time. The same would go for those in my support group.

I have not yet met one TS who is transitioning for the sex or in order to stimulate him/herself to masterbate.

[donnalee]

I can testify to there being many more sites of a sexual nature than actual forums. I searched for a site like this for 2 years before I found this one; in the meantime I joined a couple that wouldn't allow you to see what was there until you joined; when it turned out to be primarily sexual in nature, I quit,although they still had an email for me. As I've been on the web for over 15 years, I've collected a number of email addresses, which I've used for dummies when I wasn't sure of the safety of leaving an email and which I used for these sites (and a good thing, too). The reason for these sites existing, I believe, is simple - money! Once you join for free, you are then offered "upgrades" at X$ per month. Once you've given a credit card number, you place yourself in jeopardy; I've heard of these being used for identity theft and worse. There are a lot of traps for the unwary out there.

[jillleanne]

All I can say about this is that you must know a completely different group of TS folk to me. I'm pretty sure that if you took a poll amongst the TS fold in that part of this site your theory would be shot to pieces in no time. The same would go for those in my support group.

I have not yet met one TS who is transitioning for the sex or in order to stimulate him/herself to masterbate.

Rianna, just to be clear, I did not say that sex was the primary reason a person identifies as CD or Ts, etc. But I do maintain anyone that knowingly identifies as cd, ts, or whatever, have a higher sex drive than those than don't, that's all. Age as well plays an important part in this so any study would need to be carefully constructed to ensure all and any variables used, were identified and disclosed with the study.

[ReineD]

But I do maintain anyone that knowingly identifies as cd, ts, or whatever, have a higher sex drive than those than don't, that's all.

I believe that people with high sex drives are distributed equally among the spectrum of genders (although birth males have higher sex drives than birth females). So perhaps web sites proliferate to accomodate those who cannot easily express their sexuality because it is discriminated against or, to connect like minded people who cannot find each other easily due to being in a minority. This might explain why it seems as if there is a higher concentration of people with high sex drives among certain groups.

In my comment earlier I was separating sexuality from gender expression (assuming that if someone fetishizes the dressing, they can't possibly be in touch with or need to simply express an inner femininity) and on further reflection it makes sense the two are not related. CDers and TSs can be who they are and also have sexual needs that are more efficiently met by going online or in alternative bars than say, meeting one another in college or early in their careers, getting married, and living happily ever after?

[Aprilrain]

I would surmise if a truthful survey of cd's/TS's was done, 99.9% would admit they have a higher than usual sexual drive/masterbation

I cant speak for CDers but its kind of cliché that a lot of TSes have no sex drive at all! Obviously this is a stereotype that isn't true but I thought for a long time (4 years) that the fact that I had a sex drive precluded me from being TS. I also thought that maybe I masturbated "too much" when I spoke with a marriage counselor about how often I masturbated she said that my frequency was normal.

[Veronica Lodge]

Great thread. Interesting topic.

I joined this site because of its lack of cruising and the informational M2F section. This site seems to be properly compartmentalized with the varying degrees of CDing. I assume that every one had their reasons for joining...but the sexual aspect seems low key on here. imo If it was over the top like the other sites I have been unfortunate too have viewed, than I would probably never have registered.

I find most of the other sites to be hideous jokes. Full of young men all hopped up on "*******" porn hoping to meet someone like they saw in some video, Weekend Wendy's wearing their wives panties, or the boards are full of alleged "straight" admirers who give off the creepiest vibes.

I have no problem with the Weekend Wendy's on here that get off on dressing up. Whatever floats the boat. But as a longtime cd who dresses up because if I don't I'll go crazy, I will just never truly grasp the sexual aspect of it.

I also read the repetitive threads from the girls who got caught by their wives and wonder if a lot of them aren't subconsciously tanking their marriages on purpose.

[Lace-Is-Great]

I am loving this forum and the views expressed within the site. It's fantastic to find a place where people are accepting, and where there are many interests shared amongst members. It's also great where people have the opportunity to evolve and clarify concepts for themselves with the help of enlightenment and additional information from others.

This is quite a fascinating topic and thread... society's acceptance of crossdressers and the alternatively gendered, as well as the acceptance of various aspects of individual's wants and desires within the CD forum and community.

I'm looking forward to the personal growth that many of the points brought up in here will promote within me
:-)

Many sharp posters here, with right-on-the-mark comments...
I also hope to improve my communication abilities to be more concise and clear, as posts here illustrate.

Crossdressing and Transgenderism are so close and dear to my heart and soul, that I truly wish and desire for mainstream society to one day be accepting of all us girls!!!
:-)

[ReineD]

It's also great where people have the opportunity to evolve and clarify concepts for themselves with the help of enlightenment and additional information from others.

Thanks for saying this. I think it's good to define and clarify if only to help the many people who do look for answers. Unfortunately, there are members here who disagree with some of our discussions because they see it as an attempt to assign limiting "labels".

[docrobbysherry]

Make NO MISTAKE! There r many thousands of members here. But, only a handful post their opinions.

While there r as many different sexual tastes and desires as there r flavors of ice cream, I'm pretty sure MOST MEMBERS HERE involve sex in some way, and/or at some time, into their dressing !

[Rianna Humble]

I do maintain anyone that knowingly identifies as cd, ts, or whatever, have a higher sex drive than those than don't, that's all.

I will say again, you must know completely different TS folk to me what you insist is as far from the case for those I know as it is possible to get.

[jillleanne]

In my comment earlier I was separating sexuality from gender expression (assuming that if someone fetishizes the dressing, they can't possibly be in touch with or need to simply express an inner femininity) and on further reflection it makes sense the two are not related. CDers and TSs can be who they are and also have sexual needs that are more efficiently met by going online or in alternative bars than say, meeting one another in college or early in their careers, getting married, and living happily ever after?

True enough. Neat, clean, easy, safe, no committments, etc.

I will say again, you must know completely different TS folk to me what you insist is as far from the case for those I know as it is possible to get.

Rianna, I maybe should have expressly excluded "transitioning ts's" from my post so anyone would see I mean no disrespect to someone that identifies as a person in transition. I was not intentionally including anyone in transition, pre op, post op, etc. in my comments. Yes, I do understand the effects of T blockers and Estrogen, etc. introduced to anyone transitioning. If you wish to enlighten me on your opinion it would probably be best to PM me so we can leave this thread in tact and not hijack it.

[Julie Hall]

Perhaps they do get past the fetish aspect. For many CD's the sexual aspect is temporary. It wouldn't surprise me to see that many members here started out at the sexual sites and migrated to more respectable forums, like this one, as the sexual aspect faded for them.

And the sexual aspect is the main thing for some here too, many admit that, but they aren't allowed to show that graphically here.

Carol

I intended to try cross dressing as a sexual fetish. Much to my surprise, the first time I tried it - I knew something else was occurring. The momentary sexual titillation was replaced by an ease I can't remember experiencing before. I took me less than a week when I looked around and found this site. I still have no idea exactly what's going on with me, but I believe with time and the information available on this forum - perhaps I'll figure it out.