Harassment and aggression while en femme

[Sophiewouldbenice]

Hello,

just had some trouble in Germany. I was enfemme on way to a dancing event. First two forgeign man shouted at me and then through some small pieces of food in my face, fortunatley nothing glueing. After the evening one russian guy came to me and put his hand on my legs and embraced me, moving his first hand upward, ... I stopped him actually to kind. I was in a good mood and did not want to fight. Even at the dance event many gay people were there, at all nice, besides I am not really interested in guys. And at first I was somehow flattered by the russian and thought talking is fine. So he stopped the embracement and spoke partly German partly Russian. Things like why not..., I told him I am not into guys. And as the train came I moved away and said have a good evening. Some seconds later he stood up, graped my jacket, I got loose and then I felt the first punsh in my back. Probably with full strength, fortunately not well placed. He did not follow me into the train, but I was really shocked by the evening.

Berlin is somehow very open minded, most people don't care, some laugh, some look away. I never was in such position before and I felt weak. I am practicing martial arts and can somehow care for myself, but on highheels and a relatively tight skirt it was a higher risk.

The first to man were ignored by me, but this one.

Should I fight next time? Do not talk to anyone approaching me, maybe? Using lower heels and run away? You know I am not a victim in male mode, never - only by my own fault maybe, but I was never in panic or what so ever. I really felt weaker and vulnerable. And even if I fight and win, I have to deal with the police, I also can hardly try not to over do self defence if in such a situation


Any adives, I mean in US for example I assume it is even worse. So do you take caps/taxis instead of buses and trains? Or how do you deal with such situations?

[Michelle 51]

You probably did the right thing by walking away because when we're dressed we're at a disadvantage unless your out to everyone because if you fight back the police would arrive and then you involved in a court case of self defense etc and the fact you were dressed is out there.Makes you feel like kicking off the heels ,ripping your skirt up the side so you can move and kicking his ass.

[Marleena]

I agree with Michelle you need to stay away from fights at all cost.

Any CDer going out dressed alone has to be careful in any country. It's always better to have a friend with you. Many guys automatically think any MTF crossdresser is gay. He probably thought you were an easy mark. Many guys get turned on by MTF CDers too. This was probably the case. He didn't take rejection very well obviously. Society in general still has big issues with CDers. Please be safe, I'm happy you got away.

[Vickie_CDTV]

Fight only as a last resort, as Michelle said, you could end up in a bad situation with the police regardless of the fact it was self defense. I don't know how sane or crazy Germany's legal system is compared to the US legal system, but as we all know in this country those who act in self defense sometimes really get the short end of the stick (just read the recent headlines.)

But if you absolutely have to fight... fight to win.

Next time, take a taxi. If it is at all possible, take a friend along when you go out at night. It is risky for a GG to go out alone to clubs etc. too, and we are even more at risk due to hate crimes etc.

[Sophiewouldbenice]

Probably.

Well at least the day out in this dancing event was very nice. First time I danced en femme and with a guy and girls, too ^^ -was strange but very funny

Just thinking what I can do next time. It was really nice, but it is in a area you would refer to as arabic or turkish town, just because of the ratio of imigrants - with partly not that open minds. It was really like two different worlds hit each other, in the club all wre totally nice and cute to me, the guy working at the cloakroom shook my hand ^^, another ask me for a dance - I was just in heaven, after I ignored the fact, that I am straight (actually I am not total sure anymore)

Damn I have to out myself to friends, so I do not have to walk there alone, but whom do I get to a gay/lesbian dancing ... - all are straight, and who knows how they react after my outing

[Jenniferathome]

Well, while I agree with "walk away" as your first option, I think you have to take action if that does not work. Even though someone may know you are a crossdresser, they will still think that you are not going to fight, you are likely weak, and more likely scared. If you go on the offense, it will doubly shock the Neanderthal bothering you and then you can walk away. Kick off your heels and get ready for a fight if that's what it takes.

[Sophiewouldbenice]

German laws are fine (well over doing self defence can bring you to jail anyway), and we have anti discrimination rules. We have the Christopher Street Day and some other close events. So the police in general should be used to it. But anyway it is still not normal. You can see sometimes crossdressers on the streets, but rarely.

I am so far way from being used to be careful... you do not have to as a guy.

You know, if I fight, it ends badly. Here in Germany you assume Turks or Russian to have knives or even guns (both forbidden), and someone going to first sexually harassme me give me not the option to be merciful at self defence, if I loose the moment of surprise I may regret it, even while dressed. And another minor point is, I would probably destroy all my clothes, ripping, blood, breaking heels.

So maybe I really should behave like a girl/woman and just flee or scream.

[jillleanne]

Avoid fighting if possible and ONLY fight if you have to for your safety. Where ever alcohol is involved or at night , always have a friend with you. Men's brains migrate to their groins after two beer, sometimes less and sometimes, never make it back to their skulls at all. No one has a right to touch you anywhere, ever.

[Dana7]

Do something that women do: take a small can of mace/pepper spray. Then if a guy gets in your face--give him some mace.

[giuseppina]

Dana, mace is a classified as a prohibited weapon in some jurisdictions. So is pepper spray.

Sophie is not in the United States of America.

[Piora]

I agree with Michelle you need to stay away from fights at all cost.

Any CDer going out dressed alone has to be careful in any country. It's always better to have a friend with you. Many guys automatically think any MTF crossdresser is gay. He probably thought you were an easy mark. Many guys get turned on by MTF CDers too. This was probably the case. He didn't take rejection very well obviously. Society in general still has big issues with CDers. Please be safe, I'm happy you got away.

I agree. Never go out to any of those places alone. And, even the most aggressive and crippling self-defense proponents will tell you that walking away from a confrontation is what you should always try to do. Retaliate, only if there is absolutely no other alternative.

Dana, mace is a classified as a prohibited weapon in some jurisdictions. So is pepper spray.

Sophie is not in the United States of America.

Two types of thought here:

No pepper spray, in a confrontation - stay legal and get beat up or end up dead.
Have pepper spray.....use it in self-defense and get charged with possession of a prohibited weapon.....but.... are unharmed, safe and alive.

[skirtsuit]

Don't go out at night alone.

Best,
SS

[RitaRich]

I'm a newbie and trying to work through all my fears of what might happen going out. To be honest this tread worries me.
I grew-up on some tough streets. I can fight with the best of them. I now choose peace. All this stuff about the best way to beat someone enfemme is exactly the kind of thing I hate about being a 'man'.
Sophie,
I think you handled the situation as a smart woman would! You dealt with some ugly people and neither you or anyone else got hurt. More importantly, you didn't even get so much as a run in your stockings. I'm sure that just like most of us can, you can fight like a man. You chose not to and you made it home safe.
peace, Rita

[Sophiewouldbenice]

Yes, it was at least the right thing to do last time

Pepper spray is prohibited in Germany, but you are permitted to use it against animals - but I did not take it with me the last 2 years...

I have read on a local page, where some transgender wrote about the area, where it happened. There was a transgender demonstration going through, with 7 transgendered beaten up. But people still write, that we should not hide or take taxis - may take time to change society... and it probably takes longer if no one recognizes us. But well, I will see if some friends are tolerant, maybe they join me next time - or they get rid of me...

[Suzette Muguet de Mai]

Avoid a situation and don't provoke them into rage. I visited TDOR site on remembrance day and read the memorials there of hate crimes against transgendered. Please be careful. I always tread cautiously when I am talking about anything controversial because I have no idea on what the person I am chatting to thinks about CD/TG/TS/Mtf/FtM erc. Some people appear nice up front but then when some topic or situation goes against their beliefs then you need to back away and leave.
Please, after reading the memorials, I beg you all to stay safe. I remember a champion boxer telling me "there is always someone better than you". Another teacher always said it is best never to confront unless you have no other avenue, then fight with patience and mind and not with aggression, control the situation. The older I get, the more I have learnt to agree.
One BIG reason why I stay closeted, I hate pain emotional or physical.

[Vickie_CDTV]

I have read on a local page, where some transgender wrote about the area, where it happened. There was a transgender demonstration going through, with 7 transgendered beaten up. But people still write, that we should not hide or take taxis - may take time to change society... and it probably takes longer if no one recognizes us. But well, I will see if some friends are tolerant, maybe they join me next time - or they get rid of me...

Don't fall into the "PC trap" where you must do whatever the TG community says you should or feel guilty about it. At night a GG might opt to take a taxi instead of the train at night for safety, would feminists label her as "hiding"? She isn't opting to take a taxi because she is somehow weak or incapable of taking care of herself, it is just common sense for a person who is especially vulnerable to take precautions and reduce their risk.

There is a time and place for the public at large to see us, but it is not in the obituary section of the newspaper.

If one has to go out alone, the safest place one can go is a well traveled, secured public area in the daytime, like a mall. It may not be the most comfortable for someone starting out, and there is always a possibility of being heckled and such, but it is one's best bet in terms of physical safety.

[Barbara Ella]

The posts here are all spot on, and our individual responsibility can go a long way to assuring our safety. Sometimes the pink fog may cloud our judgement and cause a wandering into uncharted situations. I do not want anything bad happening to the friends I have found here, and whole heartedly support the self defense aspect of personal protection.

There are classes, offered by some Police departments for women called Resist Aggression with Defense (RAD). Not sure they would let you attend en femme (giggles). Our Dept has started offering these same classes for men. If you are a public person, i would seriously recommend you seeing if these classes are available. I do not want to read any posts about one of my friends here being physically damaged in a confrontation. Together we have more than enough work to do on dealing with the mental side of things. The only physical damage I want to deal with (and soon) is the pain from wearing those wonderful heels i see so many of you all wearing. WOrking on it.

Babes

[Sophiewouldbenice]

Next try. So I will go out now, unfortunatelyo the same place. Today with ballerina shoes, a skirt which does not limit my movements and actually pepper spray - just to give me a more secure feeling. I hope I will havea wonderful day without any harassment. Wish me luck

[Barbara Ella]

Hugs and prayers for a wonderful day.

Babes

[RenneB]

Ahhh my favorite country. The place where you can get a beer from MickyD's and go to the house of thr** col*rs and get a legal ... well it's just different over in the land of no speed limits, no door knobs and orange roofs.

How did I deal with being outed and made fun of? I made a beeline out of the area and retreated back to the closet for a day licking my wounds. Then, went back to the same area with confidence and a new attitude of 'so what'.

If I ever get back to the fatherland, I wouldn't have a problem with taking any mode of travel. But when I'm in a crowd, it's good to have friends to cover your back. Find like minded friends and stick with the pack girl...

'veeterzane.....

Renne.....

[docrobbysherry]

I applaud your tenacity, Sophie! And, your fearlessness! Personally, I'd go running back to my safe little closet with my crinoline skirt tucked between my legs!

[Aprilrain]

So do you take caps/taxis instead of buses and trains? Or how do you deal with such situations?

What's a bus? This is America baby doll, we drive! ; )

Seriously though how often do you see girls out alone at night? Especially with Russians around! (just kidding I don't even know any Russians) that's just asking for trouble. If you don't pass you are even more likely to be harassed than a GG would. If your wearing short tight skirts and heels you will attract attention wether you like it or not. Go with a friend!

[Sophiewouldbenice]

Yeah, it is autumn, and I am wearing a short skirt and tights - can not help me, I need this cute outfits.

Anyway, today was really a nice day! I did practice some dancing with a girl, well unfortunately lesbian, so I could not try my luck. What it was really fun ,no harassment! Well my guy attutide was stronger than last time, I was much more self confident but also thinking i a guy way, as long I was on the street. But well you can not have everything probably. Damn I had to leasd while dancing ^^, no it was fun anyway!