CD Evolution - not sure where this is going.

[jenny_geek72]

When I first started dressing, I remember wearing anything and everything girly. My excitement would grow if I knew I had at least one girly thing on . . . panties, socks, pantyhose.

As my dressing evolved, it grew into finding a complete outfit . . . dress, tights, heels or blouse, slacks, heels. The next phase was accessorizing . . . necklace, bracelets, clip-on earrings, and purses. Then comes the makeup phase.

Here I am 27 years later and my dressing has taken the next step of wigs, shopping en femme, and interacting with SAs. The other thing I've noticed is that I am no longer satisfied with just getting away with wearing something girly for a short amount of time. I have become greedy and I usually won't dress unless I foresee a 4-5 hour outing.

I am a bit scared to figure out where I go from here . . . still closeted and still trying to build the courage to tell my wife. Is this still just for fun or is there more to my dressing? I'm afraid to explore the answer to this question. I want to say it's still my private little hobby but it seems to be more than a hobby now.

Should I be worried?!? I am definitely in a confused state right now and often feel a bit depressed when I know the next time I can dress is a long ways away.

Sorry just venting and trying to figure things out.

[Marleena]

Jenny we are all evolving, and venting is good. Most of us remain closeted except to people we think we can trust. Even that can be a gamble at times.

I used to be in the tell your SO camp but now I'm rethinking that. I've seen some CDers having bigger issues after coming out in their marriage even leading to separation & divorce. So I won't tell anybody to tell their SO anymore.

A therapist will tell you CDing is harmless until it causes emotional issues (stress, depression, etc.) for you. You have a wife that doesn't know & maybe kids? I can understand your concern.

[ArleneRaquel]

We are all on a journey where it will end we do not know, but maybe with support from this sites member we will all evolve for the better.

[DanaR]

When I started dressing and going out, it usually was a hurry up and get ready and then go to an Emerald City meeting. Usually it would take me about 1 1/2 hours to get ready and then out the door to the meeting. I'd leave at about 6PM and get back home at 11PM. I just got tired of the rushing and driving so I stopped doing this about 6 years ago. Now I like to dress and go out shopping or visiting a friend.

My wife is okay with me dressing, so I can dress most of the time at home. Tomorrow I will be going out in the morning to visit a Mary Kay lady to put together a look for a party Saturday night; which my wife will be going with me to.

[Natalie Wood]

Sounds to me that jenny is trying to get out. Maybe it is time to let her out to the one you love. Just speculating of course. I just remember all of my cding was getting to be more and more a part of me and my life. Ultimately I just knew I had to share it with my wife if we were to move forward. I couldn't be myself until she knew. Maybe you would be happier if you shared this part of yourself with her. Maybe it will help you progress in your dressing. Just some thoughts.

[docrobbysherry]

Jenny, I wish I could give u some idea. But, YOUR experience has got me worried about myself. It sounds like I'm near or past u on the CD "evolution scale". And, I never even THOT about trying on ladies things until 15 years ago. And, didn't get serious about dressing until 4 years ago!

If anything, I'd say Jenny is being judiciously cautious! And, that's a GOOD THING!

[Melissa.Lynn88]

Jenny, I can understand where your fear is coming from. My situation is very similar to yours. I haven't been dressing all that long but over the course of a few months I went from only wearing a few things once in a while to fully dressing with a wig and makeup as often as I can. Up until recently I was nervous about where this was leading me and how far this would progress. But then I realized that my fear was making me miserable and I need to just be myself and face this head on. Since then I have been much happier and have had a clearer mind. At this point I don't know where I am heading with dressing, but I know at least I'll be happy since I will be able to accept myself and wherever my path takes me.

[sarahcsc]

Should I be worried?!? I am definitely in a confused state right now and often feel a bit depressed when I know the next time I can dress is a long ways away

Hi Jenny, I am new to this place, but as a doctor training in psychiatry, I have access to a lot of published literature regarding crossdressing. In medical terms, this is known as "transvestite fetishism". The prevalence is about 1% amongst the population but nobody really knows the true figure because nobody wants to admit that they crossdress. But those who sought help from psychiatrists, often describe a very very similar pattern to everybody else (including me).

1. Crossdressing usually starts during childhood without any known triggers, often before teenage years.
2. Crossdressing often grants sexual excitement or gratification
3. Crossdressing starts off with simple garments even by just wearing nothing but stockings, but it will become more and more elaborate as time goes by. Some people progress through this quicker, some people slower.
4. After time, many crossdressers stops finding sexual excitement in dressing up, and starts to believe that they are women and wants to dress permanently in women clothes.
5. A small minority can develop what we call "gender dysphoria", which means they are no longer comfortable with being a phenotypical or a biological male. This is the time they either seek the help of a surgeon or a psychiatrist.
6. Many of which are heterosexual males with perfectly healthy sexual relationships with the opposite sex. But a minority of them are homosexual or bisexual.
7. Nobody really knows why males crossdress. It happens predominantly in males.

The people whom the research was done upon falls into the group of people with gender dysphoria, or when they've been found out and wants treatment to help rescue their marriage. I'm sorry I couldn't provide more details into this topic, but it is a largely coveted topic with not much research done on it.

Let me know if you need more information.

[KimberlyJane]

I have been dressing since birth. My family expected a girl, and since there was only girl clothes, I was a girl for the first 2+ years.

My first memory is when my baby sister was born, and suddenly I was expected to be a boy! I soon learned from my family to be myself was shameful, so learned to live a secret life, hidden and ashamed. The next 30+ years were a cycle of dressing in secret, and becoming ashamed and purging everything, too many times to count!

Eventually I accepted it was a part of me, and always would be, and the shame was a social pressure I let control me. It took a few more years of getting out in the community of others like me to finally accept myself. I am both genders, and darn proud of it!! It is a gift given to only a few, and embracing it has made me a much happier and complete person!

I think if you have a female side that gives you joy to express it, then you should! The gender binary world is simply too narrow minded to accept the reality that there are those of us in the middle. It makes it hard to be yourself in such a world, but once you accept yourself, others will too. I am proud to be both male and female, and will never let what others 'might' think control my life.

Much love to you! Big hugs! And if you every come to the MSP area, know you have a friend to go out with!
Ciao!
Kimberly

[naughty-gina]

When I first started dressing, I remember wearing anything and everything girly. My excitement would grow if I knew I had at least one girly thing on . . . panties, socks, pantyhose.

As my dressing evolved, it grew into finding a complete outfit . . . dress, tights, heels or blouse, slacks, heels. The next phase was accessorizing . . . necklace, bracelets, clip-on earrings, and purses. Then comes the makeup phase.

Here I am 27 years later and my dressing has taken the next step of wigs, shopping en femme, and interacting with SAs. The other thing I've noticed is that I am no longer satisfied with just getting away with wearing something girly for a short amount of time. I have become greedy and I usually won't dress unless I foresee a 4-5 hour outing.

I am a bit scared to figure out where I go from here . . . still closeted and still trying to build the courage to tell my wife. Is this still just for fun or is there more to my dressing? I'm afraid to explore the answer to this question. I want to say it's still my private little hobby but it seems to be more than a hobby now.

Should I be worried?!? I am definitely in a confused state right now and often feel a bit depressed when I know the next time I can dress is a long ways away.

Sorry just venting and trying to figure things out.

I think my first experience dressing was when i was about four years old and my aunt was painting her toe-nails red. I was so intrigued I wanted her to paint mine too....so she did.....and then I had a total melt down. Hmmm....sex roles established early maybe....

Then began dressing in high school, when my folks were out of town. My wife knows of my dressing and for many years I didn't dress at all. But now I am really beginning to embrace, love and care for my fem self, Gina.

Jenny, I can understand where your fear is coming from. My situation is very similar to yours. I haven't been dressing all that long but over the course of a few months I went from only wearing a few things once in a while to fully dressing with a wig and makeup as often as I can. Up until recently I was nervous about where this was leading me and how far this would progress. But then I realized that my fear was making me miserable and I need to just be myself and face this head on. Since then I have been much happier and have had a clearer mind. At this point I don't know where I am heading with dressing, but I know at least I'll be happy since I will be able to accept myself and wherever my path takes me.

This is great. I'm probably going to be closeted the rest of my life. My body is just not passable...and I'm not sure that it matters at this point in my journey....I do know I'm starting to love and accept myself in ways I never had before. Even just wearing my panties to work makes me feel connected to Gina. I feel as if for the first time I'm not so needy and less than. So even if I'm never able to go out as some of the girls here are able to do...I'll still know I've discovered a major part of myself.

-G

[ReineD]

I am a bit scared to figure out where I go from here . . . still closeted and still trying to build the courage to tell my wife. Is this still just for fun or is there more to my dressing? I'm afraid to explore the answer to this question. I want to say it's still my private little hobby but it seems to be more than a hobby now.

Should I be worried?!?

Worried that you might one day want to transition?

There's a difference between *knowing* that you are a female born in the wrong body, disliking your male sexuality and your male gender role with your wife and in other parts of your life, and loving to dress. In other words, presenting believably enough to go out and blend does not make one a TS.

The journey from wearing panties to presenting fully as a female can take a long time for some people, especially men in your generation, but in the overall progression of the CDing, having attained a believable appearance is only still the first phase to crossdressing successfully.

If you are a CDer like my SO (and not a TS), this is what you might look forward to. Or course, you'll need to let your wife know about yourself since it will be difficult to sustain doing the following in secret:

The second phase is the development of a multi-faceted experience. You mentioned you've already started this. By this, I mean branching out from the one-dimensional experience of dressing to stay alone in a room. No human being can meet their needs this way, we all need human interaction. So the second phase is going out but engaging in what you believe are girly experiences (shopping, grooming, lunch, etc), but remaining under most people's radars by only interacting with SAs and restaurant staff, who for the most part appreciate your business and so will respect your presentation. Or perhaps getting mani/pedis or makeovers, or photoshoots, again with people who are very happy you are giving them your business. But this phase is still shying away from most people (those who stare at you too long), and generally having a very quiet, mostly unnoticed experience in the mainstream other than the people you interact with commercially. This phase can last a while too.

The third phase comes with engaging with other people while out. Talking to people while standing in line waiting to order the cappuccino; striking a conversation with the bank teller; going to certain establishments regularly and chit-chatting to the people who work there and also the regulars; letting them know about yourself ... what you do for work, your views on current events, your interests, finding out about their lives, their work, their families, etc. Perhaps even bringing some work with you or a laptop, so that you can combine the dressing with other things you need to do. Doing your errands while dressed: grocery shopping, banking, running to the drugstore. In other words, the outings will cease to be about having a girly experience, and will be more about doing the day-to-day things you need to do just as you would in guy mode.

But along with the third phase comes the realization, if you are not TS, that life dressed is not that much different than life as a guy. The fantasy of what it must be like to be a woman interacting with others quickly flies out the window when you discover that people will still say hello, please, thank you, and goodbye to you dressed, just as they would when you're not. The people you do get to know will tell you the same jokes while you are dressed as they would if you were not. And so along with this phase comes the realization that the fantasies dreamed of while you were still in the closet were just that ... fantasies, and in reality you will not be treated all that differently when you are dressed than if you weren't. Also, you will discover that at that close a range, people will know that you are a male who is presenting as a woman. You will also discover there are many people who are quite prepared to accept this. And this is when you will achieve a balance. By then it won't take you long to get ready since you will have discovered shortcuts, and so you'll go out for an afternoon, do your stuff, then look forward to going home and taking off your corset and bra just like the rest of us. You might even have grown your fingernails a bit, and so you won't need to put on nail polish in order for your hands to pass. You probably won't want to bother with it most of the time, like the rest of us. Putting on makeup will eventually seem as old hat to you as shaving seems to you now as a guy. It will simply be what you need to do in order to get ready and it will have lost that heightened feeling of mystery and perhaps naughtiness you might be feeling now.

I by no means wish to tell you that you are not a TS, I've no way of knowing this, but I just wanted to share my SO's progress, whom I consider is a fairly typical CDer. She goes out once or twice per week dressed, sometimes alone and sometimes with me. He also has a rich and varied life in guy mode.

[LeaP]

Hi Jenny, I am new to this place, but as a doctor training in psychiatry, I have access to a lot of published literature regarding crossdressing. In medical terms, this is known as "transvestite fetishism". ...

1. Crossdressing usually starts during childhood without any known triggers, often before teenage years.
2. Crossdressing often grants sexual excitement or gratification
3. Crossdressing starts off with simple garments even by just wearing nothing but stockings, but it will become more and more elaborate as time goes by. Some people progress through this quicker, some people slower.
4. After time, many crossdressers stops finding sexual excitement in dressing up, and starts to believe that they are women and wants to dress permanently in women clothes.
5. A small minority can develop what we call "gender dysphoria", which means they are no longer comfortable with being a phenotypical or a biological male. This is the time they either seek the help of a surgeon or a psychiatrist.
6. Many of which are heterosexual males with perfectly healthy sexual relationships with the opposite sex. But a minority of them are homosexual or bisexual.
7. Nobody really knows why males crossdress. It happens predominantly in males.

The people whom the research was done upon falls into the group of people with gender dysphoria, or when they've been found out and wants treatment to help rescue their marriage. I'm sorry I couldn't provide more details into this topic, but it is a largely coveted topic with not much research done on it.

Let me know if you need more information.

There's so much misinformation here it's hard to know where to start. The simplest is "TransvestIC Fetishism", which is a distinct diagnosis from other types (motivations) of crossdressing, and there are several.

I do recognize your caveats, Sara, but to say that CDing "usually" starts in childhood is a bit strong. Many, many crossdressers, especially those with motivations unrelated to gender identity or pathologies, start later in life.

Fetishists may get sexual gratification from dressing. Many others get conflict.

The notion that crossdressers progress is misleading. Some do, many don't as regards dressing itself. It's REALLY misleading to suggest that crossdressing per se progresses to gender dysphoria, which is applicable to the most serious identity issues. That is, crossdressing may be symptomatic, but it is not a cause.

Describing crossdressing as primarily a male phenomenon misses the point. Which is: the social perception is that it's a male activity, the reality being that women have greater range in presentation and the same practices, motivations, and symptoms simply fly under the radar. As far as I'm aware, there is no evidence whatsoever that the basic issues differ by gender.

As for research, do your homework. I suggest starting with WPATH (www.wpath.org). You can follow links to tons of authoritative material, including peer-reviewed research, medical journal articles, specialists, standards of care, etc.

Lea

[ReineD]

Lea, I think that Sarahcsc's summary is pretty accurate. She speaks for most and not the exceptions.

Even if the CDing lies dormant in some CDers for years after they get married, most can and do trace an awareness of desires to their adolescence if not sooner, unless this forum attracts only CDers who were aware of their interests during their teenage years (even if they didn't have a name for it). But from what I've read here, there is a significant number of CDers who were more than aware, who did start out by masturbation in their teenage years while wearing feminine garments. Some put it aside for a few years, and others for more, but it is rare to have a CDer who will begin CDing out of the blue at age 45 or 50 without any idea there was even the slightest shadow of desire or curiosity beforehand. I recently had a conversation with one of our members who did start quite late in life and she did acknowledge an awareness or an attraction long before she acted out on it.

I also agree with Sarah (based on the sheer volume of posts I've read here over the years) that the sexual intensity does die down over the years for many (most?) of the CDers, even though some will remain fetishists.

As to the progression, it is only limited to one's physiognomy and life circumstances, meaning that a CDer will go as far with it as he feels he can. If he ends up staying in the closet it is often because he either feels he would never be able to pass, or he has too much to lose if he is discovered. But, the desire for the progression is present even if the progression does not manifest itself for awhile. If he felt he could pass, if he knew his wife was accepting, and if he did not fear being ostracized when caught, you would likely discover if you took a survey that most of the closeted CDers would progress if they could. But many people resign themselves to their circumstances. Also, Sarah did say that it does progress to GID only for a small number of CDers, which is also true ... although whether this is really a progression or whether these individuals are late onset TSs is debatable. And again, I agree wish Sarah there is still a desire to be a woman even if there is no GID. Many here will say at the fantasy level that they feel they should have been born women, or if given a magic pill they would become women. And then they sigh and it won't go further than this.

And last, I don't dispute the many valid reasons why more men engage in behaviors that are considered CDing compared to women, but Sarah's statement is again true. The genetic females who do wish to present male (I'm not talking about the varied aesthetics of women who choose to present as women even if they don't care for dresses or makeup) tend to be Transmen who go for it all the way, and not CDs who present male sometimes only to revert to a female presentation the rest of the time.

[Kaz]

Lea,

My understanding was that Sarah's summary was a distillation from the medical literature, not her own views. I thought it was helpful. As for the terminology... researchers apply terms as category headings not necessarily as signifiers.

Jenny... it is a crazy journey this and I share a lot of what you have described, although my journey has been a longer one! 'Kaz' as I call my CD identification has become so important to me that she is there 24/7 and it feels good. Actually we are one and the same person and I find it okay to be dressed as a male stereotype and feel like Kaz inside. It is fun. However I prefer underdressing to wearing guys' underwear - don't know why, just feels better!

The thing is, transitioning for me is not the issue as I am happy with both sides now that I have them sort of integrated. For me it is not either/or anymore... However... when I get an opportunity to go the full way... make-up & wig... I am in heaven.

Interestingly though, as Reinne has said, I have my make-up routine down to just that... routine. I worry about posting pics of me these days because they all look the same...!

But this is good... I am not the fractured person I was for many years and this site has brought my pieces together! I hope you post a lot... let's share our journeys on this evolutionary path! Remember... life is a journey not a destination, and evolution doesn't have an end point either!

[LeaP]

We'll agree to disagree, Reine. I've been astonished at the number of CDers in the forum who are adamant that there are no identity issues whatsoever. I'm equally surprised by the number who describe themselves as taking up dressing later in life as if on a whim. Frankly, it wouldn't have occurred to me, prior to joining the forum, that something like crossdressing could even be described in terms like "hobby." Ditto the number who do NOT wish to be female. Neither of us have actual stats, I suspect, so we're running on impressions. You certainly have been here far longer, though I will say that I've read substantial portions of the older threads on the site. My view - ever evolving(!) - is that the hobbyists, fetishists, and casual crossdressers constitute the largest population here by far and a most of them describe taking it up as adults out of nowhere.

Lea

[Karren H]

Why are wee never happy and have to evolve? Personally life is a balancing act between what you have to do and what you want to do.. Noting wrong with finding a happy median of the two and be happy with that life instead of always wanting more and more. Maybe that's just me.. If you don't like something in your life... Change something.. Figure out how to make things work..

[Kaz]

Jenny,

Welcome to the forum! Bet you never expected this from your post did you?

As I said, I understand a lot of what you are going through and yes it can feel like being greedy and I think I am doing that right now... being greedy. If we are in a relationship, we need to strike a positive balance. It could easily get out of control and then you will hit all sorts of problems!

[RenneB]

Jenny, it's genetic. You and I were born this way. Some people will accept the way we are most don't. As it relates to your SO, you'll need to test the waters. As this can be justification for throwing out the D word. Some of us girls have been able to work it into a special event and the SO said why don't you dress like a girl and I'll dress as a boy. Then you come back after the event and say, should we do this again. If she says sure lets do this all the time - you've got it made. On the other hand if she says, like H*ll. I don't want no man of mine wearing girly clothes.... well then you've got your answer without comeing out. Then the choice is up to you. Repress and hide like some of us or come out and try to get her to accept this way of living.

Renne.....

[ReineD]

We'll agree to disagree, Reine. I've been astonished at the number of CDers in the forum who are adamant that there are no identity issues whatsoever. I'm equally surprised by the number who describe themselves as taking up dressing later in life as if on a whim.

I can't tell you how often I've wished to have some sort of mechanism in place to quantify this, since certain "slants" seem to stand out more than others for most of us, depending on where we're at with it all. For example a GG might think that there are a great many CDers here who want to sleep with men when dressed, when in fact there may be 300 people in a week who post something like this (forgetting there are 7,000 active members).

Also, most of the threads are worded in such a way as to attract those who would respond positively.

The whole thing is very difficult to gage, and I think it takes a long time here looking at it as an outsider without a stake in any of this to be able to have developed a semblance of what might be the norm.

... and even then, it could be wrong.

But I think a survey of the research would prove that Sarah's summary is generally accurate.

[Kathleen]

Lea, thanks for your intelligent and well-reasoned posts. But I have to say, Jenny - amen on genetic. To different degrees, but I have to believe all of us were born this way. My own interest is not all-consuming, and can be kept casual and closeted (I think; sure has been for a loooong time) - and I think about it the same as I think about other hobbies I seem to have a "need" to pursue.

But, I've been interested in wearing womens' clothes almost as long as I can remember, and try as I might I can't change it. I have to believe if I were born with raging testosterone I'd be different ("average", God help us!), but as it is I am much more balanced between the two sides. I think no matter when you "take it up", you're born with it or you're not.

[Jessica Who]

There was a time when I was convinced that this whole thing was just a snowball that would fall indefinitely, but I was able to find a happy place within myself. Part of that for me was learning to appreciate my masculine side even more.

Now that I show lots of love for each gender-side of me, I am much happier and at peace with everything.