Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 32

Thread: Not sure what to make of all this...(Warning - long post!)

  1. #1
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,275

    Not sure what to make of all this...(Warning - long post!)

    ...despite the fact that the stars were in full alignment for me this past Friday when I went out en femme again. Let me explain more fully:

    With my wife and assorted family members otherwise occupied on that particular day, I had the opportunity to hit the malls in "Leslie" mode to finish up my Christmas shopping - not to mention looking for a few items on "her" own personal wish list. What made this day even more auspicious was the fact that a GG photographer and Facebook friend of mine who is intrigued by my female alter ego (and has already done a photo shoot with "her") also happened to message me the night before with a most interesting proposition.

    Seems that she had agreed to mind the store that day on behalf of the owner of a ladies' clothing boutique in downtown Toronto specializing in high end fashions, evening wear, and sexy lingerie, and she suggested in her message that I might want to come over for a look since she had come across a few items that she thought would look very nice on me. Talk about an offer that I couldn't refuse!...so I made sure that I would find the time to stop by her place as I finalized my shopping plans.

    The day started off well enough, and I stopped off first at the Bay, which is a major department store chain here in Canada. They had a number of sales promotions going on, including a "scratch and save" event. With that in mind, I found a nice ladies' suit that had already been reduced by 60%, and I fully expected to make a "killing" on that purchase once all the other promotions were factored in. Well, as it happened, the initial response was that I couldn't "double dip" after the cashier had some problems completing the transaction due to the fact that even she wasn't totally up to speed on all the exclusions. It eventually took a Manager to come over to sort all this out.

    What was interesting here is that I ended up dealing singly and collectively with 3 or 4 SA's as well as their Manager while they were trying to figure out what to do, and at one point, they began referring to me alternately as "he" and "him" among themselves. This was even though I was in full "Leslie" mode with the wig, make up, heels, purse, and miscellaneous accessories, and also while wearing a stylish and very age-appropriate outfit including a knee-length skirt and matching top. In fact, I was dressed better and in a more lady-like manner than any one of them. I also believed (mistakenly, obviously!) that I looked eminently "passable" that day, and at the very least, would be capable of blending in seamlessly. Needless to say, I was very disappointed by this reaction, but oddly enough - equally intrigued and heartened by the fact that they were not doing this maliciously and were treating me with courtesy and respect throughout, including the requisite small talk and complimentary comments on both my purchases as well as the great bargain that I was able to score in the process. In fact, the Manager even ended up over-riding the electronic block on the cash register to give me more of a price reduction than I was actually entitled to because she agreed that the store signage regarding the sale was misleading.

    I guess what I am saying here is that the "bad" thing about this incident was that I was obviously "read", but the "good" thing is that it seemed to make no difference whatsoever to them, and they treated me just like any other customer- no sense of surprise, snickering, negative comments, eye-rolls etc. In other words, almost as if they saw crossdressers every day and that it was no big deal to them. So here I was - ego slightly bruised, but oddly O.K. with that, considering how this whole incident had played out overall.

    By way of contrast, when I went to see my GG Facebook friend, she was all smiles, gave me a great big hug, looked me up and down admiringly, and reiterated a remark that she had made on a previous occasion about how great she thought my legs looked. She then gave me a quick tour of the boutique, offered me a glass of wine, confirmed my current dress size and likes/dislikes, hustled me off to a fitting room, and brought me a whole armful of skirts, tops, dresses, shoes and bustiers to try on, each of which I had to model for her outside of the fitting room and in front of a large mirror. They were all great choices, and her eyes got bigger and bigger and her smile wider and wider as I modeled each new outfit for her to critique and comment on. She seemed to be enjoying this fashion show as much as I was, if not more, even asking me to twirl around for her a couple of times. I think that she was genuinely surprised by how good some of those outfits looked on me. My GG friend also mentioned how impressed she was with my ability to navigate about in one of the pairs of 4" stilettos she that had brought to me to go with one of the dresses. I winked at her, saying that yes, I have had a bit of practice in that regard, and besides, what was the point of being a crossdresser if you aren't going to rock the heels - at which point the biggest, knowing grin appeared on her face. I should also add that she and I were alone in the store during all this time, so I had her undivided attention and she treated me just like a regular female customer throughout - if not better, in fact.

    But the highlight for me was when I picked out a super cute pink corset with black lace trim from the store's lingerie rack to try on, and my GG friend enthusiastically helped me to position it properly. She then did up the back laces as tightly as she could while I stood there otherwise clad only in my panties and holding my breast forms in my hand as I awaited the proper time to insert them.

    This just had to be one of the most surreal experiences of my life to date and a fantasy come true, and yet somehow, incredibly, it also felt like the most natural thing in the world as I was mentally transported into another dimension. This was also my first time trying on a corset, and we were both amazed at just how much of an hourglass figure I was able to achieve with it. So as an aside to all you ladies who have posted about corsets and bustiers in the past and how much you love them - I get it now - I really, really get it!

    In the end, most of the items that my GG friend had me try on were far too expensive for my limited budget (especially with Christmas gift-giving time upon us) so I settled for a cute shrug that I knew would go well with some of the cocktail dresses and evening gowns that I already own. I also put a deposit down for the corset which she has to order for me in one size larger for a better fit, and which I will be picking up early in the New Year. Needless to say, I was walking on Cloud 9 when I left the store after having been treated so royally, and all my self-doubts from earlier in the day had totally melted away by that point.

    My next (and last) stop of the day was at a major downtown shopping center which I knew would be open until 11:00 P.M. that night because of the extended Christmas shopping hours, and I was looking forward to another leisurely round of selecting and trying on some of the scores of special event dresses and shoes that were being offered on sale for the current Christmas and New Year's Eve party season. I again landed at the Bay store there, which also happens to be that chain's flagship location. I found 6 dresses that I really liked while interacting with several SA's in the process, none of whom gave me any indication that I was being "read". Ditto for the lady who opened up a fitting room for me and came by several times to inquire how I was doing.

    In fact, just before that point, a fellow female shopper who was about my age began to engage me in a conversation that lasted for over 10 minutes, and centered around her frustration at not being able to find anything stylish and age appropriate there that didn't feature a top or neckline that threatened to reveal far more than she would have been comfortable with. She even asked me for my thoughts on a number of dresses that she had already set aside, and gave no indication throughout that she suspected that I was anything but a fellow GG. But then, the moment of truth arrived...

    After trying on all 6 of my selections, I found 2 that fit me so well and looked so awesome on me that they were "keepers", and I subsequently headed to the nearest cash to pay for them. In the distance, I saw a gaggle of GG's hovering around the cash register station, and I assumed initially that it was a mix of GG customers waiting to pay, along with some cashiers. As I approached closer I saw all eyes become trained on me, and I then realized that the group consisted entirely of store employees who were taking advantage of a quiet moment to have a yak fest.

    I felt vaguely as if I was walking into a lion's den at that point, and all the warnings on this forum about the intuitive powers of teen-aged GG's to spot a tranny from miles away flashed through my mind. Fortunately, the male side of my brain also kicked in at that point, and I became determined to act cool and not let them smell the fear. I needn't have worried, though, as they all acted super nice while I was in their midst, complimenting me on my choices, taking special care to gift wrap them nicely, and ensuring that I was getting all the discounts that I was entitled to. Everything went without a hitch, except... just as happened at the other Bay store, the conversations were again peppered with "he", "him", and "sir".

    I was so disappointed by this turn of events that - unlike the first time - I was just about to call them on this breach of etiquette and inquire as to why they were insisting on referring to me as a male when I was clearly presenting as a female. But discretion being the better part of valor, I also realized that no malice was intended here given the rest of their very accepting actions and attitudes, and I let it slide. I simply pretended that I just hadn't heard those specific references and went with the flow.

    As I said in my intro to this post, I have very mixed feelings about what happened to me on that day. On one hand, I should feel crushed that I was "read" so easily - especially considering that I had achieved a very polished look between the outfit I had chosen to wear, my wig, and the great care I had taken in applying my make up (or so I had thought). I was also a little bothered by the fact that I see so many masculine looking GG's out there these days, and I thought that I looked at least as good as - if not better than - many of them, yet I was readily pegged for what I really was. Clearly, I now need to go back and re-examine the other aspects of the way in which I present myself to see what tipped them off - whether it was my voice, my body language, or some other, less tangible marker...

    And yet... I am also curiously heartened by the fact that I was accepted so readily by GG's who were total strangers to me, and despite the fact that they clearly took me for a genetic male at the same time. It was almost as if this was no big deal to them at all, and that serving crossdressers was a common event for them - and no real departure from dealing with other types of "unconventional" customers such as those who have multiple tattoos and/or body piercings, spiked and/or purple-dyed their hair etc., or else wear one of the many distinctive ethnic and/or religious garments like the hijab or burqa that are now so commonplace in the larger cities of the Western world.

    As many have pointed out here, true "passing" is a Holy Grail that few of us can realistically expect to achieve - even sporadically. Instead, we should focus simply on "blending in", feeling comfortable in our skins, and projecting that serenity and confidence onto those whom we interact with who will then invariably reflect that back on us.

    I believe that this is exactly what happened to me on Friday, and if I ever had any remaining misgivings about going out en femme for fear of attracting both negative or unwanted attention, then I think that this experience has put those to bed once and for all.

  2. #2
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    11,799
    The majority of your day was good so the one issue with the "slips" I would just let go as they were busy and stressed and not really thinking. Other than a bruise to the ego, no harm right?

    I know when I am out I am "read". I don't really care anymore I just smile (I smile a lot more when I am dressed anyway) and go about what I do.

    Your friend had the right idea, a glass of wine and a nice leisurely day being spoiled. If money had been no object you would have bought the store
    The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
    Chief Joseph
    Nez Perce



    “Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,

  3. #3
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    A bit south of the 49th!
    Posts
    23,731
    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Langford View Post
    ..."blending in", feeling comfortable in our skins, and projecting that serenity and confidence onto those whom we interact with who will then invariably reflect that back on us. .
    Really nailed it with this sentence, Leslie.

  4. #4
    Junior Member Raychel Torn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    85
    Well it sounds like a great day to me! Congratulations. And it was a day that so many of us don't think we will ever get to have. I have ventured out and had the same kind of experiences as you and I was a little disappointed, but then someone on this site pointe out how nice it was that I was accepted as me without any issues. The point may not be to "pass" but to be accepted and respected as we are. That idea was very helpful to me so I will offer it back up for consideration. We may not always pass, but if we are accepted even when we don't then life is good.
    Raychel

  5. #5
    Senior Member charlie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
    Posts
    1,199
    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Langford View Post
    ...despite the fact that the stars were in full alignment for me this past Friday when I went out en femme again. Let me explain more fully:

    With my wife and assorted family members otherwise occupied on that particular day, I had the opportunity to hit the malls in "Leslie" mode to finish up my Christmas shopping - not to mention looking for a few items on "her" own personal wish list. What made this day even more auspicious was the fact that a GG photographer and Facebook friend of mine who is intrigued by my female alter ego (and has already done a photo shoot with "her") also happened to message me the night before with a most interesting proposition.

    Seems that she had agreed to mind the store that day on behalf of the owner of a ladies' clothing boutique in downtown Toronto specializing in high end fashions, evening wear, and sexy lingerie, and she suggested in her message that I might want to come over for a look since she had come across a few items that she thought would look very nice on me. Talk about an offer that I couldn't refuse!...so I made sure that I would find the time to stop by her place as I finalized my shopping plans.

    The day started off well enough, and I stopped off first at the Bay, which is a major department store chain here in Canada. They had a number of sales promotions going on, including a "scratch and save" event. With that in mind, I found a nice ladies' suit that had already been reduced by 60%, and I fully expected to make a "killing" on that purchase once all the other promotions were factored in. Well, as it happened, the initial response was that I couldn't "double dip" after the cashier had some problems completing the transaction due to the fact that even she wasn't totally up to speed on all the exclusions. It eventually took a Manager to come over to sort all this out.

    What was interesting here is that I ended up dealing singly and collectively with 3 or 4 SA's as well as their Manager while they were trying to figure out what to do, and at one point, they began referring to me alternately as "he" and "him" among themselves. This was even though I was in full "Leslie" mode with the wig, make up, heels, purse, and miscellaneous accessories, and also while wearing a stylish and very age-appropriate outfit including a knee-length skirt and matching top. In fact, I was dressed better and in a more lady-like manner than any one of them. I also believed (mistakenly, obviously!) that I looked eminently "passable" that day, and at the very least, would be capable of blending in seamlessly. Needless to say, I was very disappointed by this reaction, but oddly enough - equally intrigued and heartened by the fact that they were not doing this maliciously and were treating me with courtesy and respect throughout, including the requisite small talk and complimentary comments on both my purchases as well as the great bargain that I was able to score in the process. In fact, the Manager even ended up over-riding the electronic block on the cash register to give me more of a price reduction than I was actually entitled to because she agreed that the store signage regarding the sale was misleading.

    I guess what I am saying here is that the "bad" thing about this incident was that I was obviously "read", but the "good" thing is that it seemed to make no difference whatsoever to them, and they treated me just like any other customer- no sense of surprise, snickering, negative comments, eye-rolls etc. In other words, almost as if they saw crossdressers every day and that it was no big deal to them. So here I was - ego slightly bruised, but oddly O.K. with that, considering how this whole incident had played out overall.

    By way of contrast, when I went to see my GG Facebook friend, she was all smiles, gave me a great big hug, looked me up and down admiringly, and reiterated a remark that she had made on a previous occasion about how great she thought my legs looked. She then gave me a quick tour of the boutique, offered me a glass of wine, confirmed my current dress size and likes/dislikes, hustled me off to a fitting room, and brought me a whole armful of skirts, tops, dresses, shoes and bustiers to try on, each of which I had to model for her outside of the fitting room and in front of a large mirror. They were all great choices, and her eyes got bigger and bigger and her smile wider and wider as I modeled each new outfit for her to critique and comment on. She seemed to be enjoying this fashion show as much as I was, if not more, even asking me to twirl around for her a couple of times. I think that she was genuinely surprised by how good some of those outfits looked on me. My GG friend also mentioned how impressed she was with my ability to navigate about in one of the pairs of 4" stilettos she that had brought to me to go with one of the dresses. I winked at her, saying that yes, I have had a bit of practice in that regard, and besides, what was the point of being a crossdresser if you aren't going to rock the heels - at which point the biggest, knowing grin appeared on her face. I should also add that she and I were alone in the store during all this time, so I had her undivided attention and she treated me just like a regular female customer throughout - if not better, in fact.

    But the highlight for me was when I picked out a super cute pink corset with black lace trim from the store's lingerie rack to try on, and my GG friend enthusiastically helped me to position it properly. She then did up the back laces as tightly as she could while I stood there otherwise clad only in my panties and holding my breast forms in my hand as I awaited the proper time to insert them.

    This just had to be one of the most surreal experiences of my life to date and a fantasy come true, and yet somehow, incredibly, it also felt like the most natural thing in the world as I was mentally transported into another dimension. This was also my first time trying on a corset, and we were both amazed at just how much of an hourglass figure I was able to achieve with it. So as an aside to all you ladies who have posted about corsets and bustiers in the past and how much you love them - I get it now - I really, really get it!

    In the end, most of the items that my GG friend had me try on were far too expensive for my limited budget (especially with Christmas gift-giving time upon us) so I settled for a cute shrug that I knew would go well with some of the cocktail dresses and evening gowns that I already own. I also put a deposit down for the corset which she has to order for me in one size larger for a better fit, and which I will be picking up early in the New Year. Needless to say, I was walking on Cloud 9 when I left the store after having been treated so royally, and all my self-doubts from earlier in the day had totally melted away by that point.

    My next (and last) stop of the day was at a major downtown shopping center which I knew would be open until 11:00 P.M. that night because of the extended Christmas shopping hours, and I was looking forward to another leisurely round of selecting and trying on some of the scores of special event dresses and shoes that were being offered on sale for the current Christmas and New Year's Eve party season. I again landed at the Bay store there, which also happens to be that chain's flagship location. I found 6 dresses that I really liked while interacting with several SA's in the process, none of whom gave me any indication that I was being "read". Ditto for the lady who opened up a fitting room for me and came by several times to inquire how I was doing.

    In fact, just before that point, a fellow female shopper who was about my age began to engage me in a conversation that lasted for over 10 minutes, and centered around her frustration at not being able to find anything stylish and age appropriate there that didn't feature a top or neckline that threatened to reveal far more than she would have been comfortable with. She even asked me for my thoughts on a number of dresses that she had already set aside, and gave no indication throughout that she suspected that I was anything but a fellow GG. But then, the moment of truth arrived...

    After trying on all 6 of my selections, I found 2 that fit me so well and looked so awesome on me that they were "keepers", and I subsequently headed to the nearest cash to pay for them. In the distance, I saw a gaggle of GG's hovering around the cash register station, and I assumed initially that it was a mix of GG customers waiting to pay, along with some cashiers. As I approached closer I saw all eyes become trained on me, and I then realized that the group consisted entirely of store employees who were taking advantage of a quiet moment to have a yak fest.

    I felt vaguely as if I was walking into a lion's den at that point, and all the warnings on this forum about the intuitive powers of teen-aged GG's to spot a tranny from miles away flashed through my mind. Fortunately, the male side of my brain also kicked in at that point, and I became determined to act cool and not let them smell the fear. I needn't have worried, though, as they all acted super nice while I was in their midst, complimenting me on my choices, taking special care to gift wrap them nicely, and ensuring that I was getting all the discounts that I was entitled to. Everything went without a hitch, except... just as happened at the other Bay store, the conversations were again peppered with "he", "him", and "sir".

    I was so disappointed by this turn of events that - unlike the first time - I was just about to call them on this breach of etiquette and inquire as to why they were insisting on referring to me as a male when I was clearly presenting as a female. But discretion being the better part of valor, I also realized that no malice was intended here given the rest of their very accepting actions and attitudes, and I let it slide. I simply pretended that I just hadn't heard those specific references and went with the flow.

    As I said in my intro to this post, I have very mixed feelings about what happened to me on that day. On one hand, I should feel crushed that I was "read" so easily - especially considering that I had achieved a very polished look between the outfit I had chosen to wear, my wig, and the great care I had taken in applying my make up (or so I had thought). I was also a little bothered by the fact that I see so many masculine looking GG's out there these days, and I thought that I looked at least as good as - if not better than - many of them, yet I was readily pegged for what I really was. Clearly, I now need to go back and re-examine the other aspects of the way in which I present myself to see what tipped them off - whether it was my voice, my body language, or some other, less tangible marker...

    And yet... I am also curiously heartened by the fact that I was accepted so readily by GG's who were total strangers to me, and despite the fact that they clearly took me for a genetic male at the same time. It was almost as if this was no big deal to them at all, and that serving crossdressers was a common event for them - and no real departure from dealing with other types of "unconventional" customers such as those who have multiple tattoos and/or body piercings, spiked and/or purple-dyed their hair etc., or else wear one of the many distinctive ethnic and/or religious garments like the hijab or burqa that are now so commonplace in the larger cities of the Western world.

    As many have pointed out here, true "passing" is a Holy Grail that few of us can realistically expect to achieve - even sporadically. Instead, we should focus simply on "blending in", feeling comfortable in our skins, and projecting that serenity and confidence onto those whom we interact with who will then invariably reflect that back on us.

    I believe that this is exactly what happened to me on Friday, and if I ever had any remaining misgivings about going out en femme for fear of attracting both negative or unwanted attention, then I think that this experience has put those to bed once and for all.
    Hello Leslie!
    You looked great, had a great day and also were read under very close circumstances. I think we all get read at some point. I guess I have just stopped caring. If it takes GG's being closer then 5 feet and handing dresses to you to get read...then you have reached the "holy grail" in my opinion!
    Charlie

  6. #6
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    4,382
    Good intentions cover a multitude of sins, Leslie. People also really aren't that aware of trans etiquette. I'm sorry for the down moments, but overall it sounds like a terrific day.

    Lea

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    South Jersey
    Posts
    333
    Sounds like a great day. If you were read when you were sure you were passing, do you have a conspicuous Adam's Apple? There isn't much you could do about that.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

  8. #8
    Silver Member RenneB's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    3,375
    Well Leslie, I admire your confidence and strength. I have, only over the past few days, lost all my butterflies in going out to the mall. I did this with a prepared, lie... I mean excuse for being en fem. This hasn't happened yet but here is what the dialog might sound like.

    So you’re really a guy in a girls dress right? I’d respond, Yep, I’m working undercover for a private detective in another store outside the mall. I’m on break right now and need to pick up a few more clothes. Hey, it’s a job someone’s got to do it.

    With that dialog in my brain, I am prepared for anything. I don’t have to flash a badge because I’m not saying I’m the PI, I just work for one and I’m undercover.

    This has put me at such ease that I continue to head out whenever I can and don’t give it too much thought anymore. Although I’m working devilishly hard at trying to get into the passing zone, I am prepared to be the GM when confronted. So far, no confrontations since I’ve developed this ‘tude.

    Every girl here that is out and about, I’m sure has had to come up with some way to remove the stigma of being read, this was mine…

    Renne…..

  9. #9
    Senior Member Sheila11's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    1,296
    I had a similar experience in a Dress barn a couple of weeks ago. All three SA's were fawning over me, bringing me dresses and outfits, asking me to model for them and then just sitting down in the mirrored modeling area just to talk. I spent several hours laughing and giggling with them. But somewhere in the middle of the whole thing Ali refered to me as "he".

    At first this took me back. Then as I thought about it I decided she was not trying to be malicious or anything she just saw a guy in a dress. Her full sentence was "Doesn't he look gourgous in that dress?" The Manager of the store, who was also picking out outfits and sat down for a chat, apologised for Ali and asked what I liked. I honestly said I did not care, I prefer she but I know I am a he.

    I was treated as one of the girls. We laughed, we told each other about our lives and families, and where we were going next. Even took some pics getting hugs from the adorable Ali. I even thought about pursuing a GG relationship with Ali but she was moving out of state in only a few days.

    In all it just added to the reality that without surgery, weight loss, voice training, and smoke and mirrors, I am a pretty guy in a dress.

  10. #10
    Gold Member Marleena's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    5,925
    Leslie, you answered your own question in the last line of your post. So you achieved your goal which well help others like me. I am preparing to go out dressed soon. It proves being "read" is not a bad thing. Keep in mind that you were in very close range of the SA's like another poster stated. Getting read was inevitable. You might have passed without any interaction, but it really didn't matter.

    I'm very scared of trying to go out in public, but I have to for me. My SO will accompany me for support though. I don't want to be outed in my own city and have asked about Toronto in the Meeting Place without any replies yet. Your post tells me acceptance will be good in Toronto. Keep in mind that Human Rights legislation for all of Canada states we cannot be discriminated against based on gender which applies to all gender categories on this board.

    Congrats on what you have accomplished, you open doors for others like myself.

    It sounds like the SA's had good training in the stores you went to EXCEPT they should have referred to you in the gender you were dressed in (she, her).
    Last edited by Marleena; 12-20-2011 at 06:54 PM.

  11. #11
    Aspiring Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Ft. Worth, Texas
    Posts
    690
    Great experience and thank you for sharing; hopefully some of the ladies on the forum who have shyed away from venturing out will take your lead and go fearlessly (okay with a small amount of anxiety) out into the world.

    This is what I think about being referred to as "he" when out and dressed. I know several GG's who know me as Annie and when I share some of our adventures with them to reinforce that most of us are quite normal people no matter how we are dressed, I always and I mean always work into the story that we present ourselves as women we should be referred to as "she". I also have been pronouned as "he" when dressed and if the situation is non-confrontational will correct the person with "when I am out dressed like I am now and I am presenting myself as a female, please refer to me as a "she", I would be most appreciative."

    Maybe it is the teacher in me but I honestly don't think that those people are trying to harm or ridicule but rather they just don't know any better. Take the opportunity to educate them on transgender etiquette and vocabulary.

    Great story and well written!

  12. #12
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,728
    That's a wonderful and well written story Leslie but I wouldn't put too much stock in passing up close. I see an awful lot of cross dressers and many of them are quite pretty, but there is no doubt that they are men. I think it would be the rare bird indeed that could pass up close at over 30 years old, without any medical help.

    Many of my transitioning sisters me included rarely pass up close, and I personally have been on the juice for 16 months with at least that long of electrolysis. That means smooth skin and absolutely no shadow or stubble. Even with pierced ears, tinted eyelashes and my own long hair, I hardly ever pass up close. Not to say that I'm the barometer, just the fact remains that there has been a good bit of work done and my body is even becoming shapelier but to no avail. I still look-a like-a man. ;-)

    I think the CD's are a little too hard on themselves. Passing is nearly impossible for us poor *******s that were born male. That's why we all yearn for the REAL holy grail; FFS baby.

    P.S. I don't wanna hear from the young beeeatches, because all bets are off if you're under 30. ;-)
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  13. #13
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    4,675
    I have been saying this for all the years I have been here.

    99.9% of the population just doesn't care what you wear, and you are learning that. Plus, you are experiencing the difference between acceptance and passing. Passing is hard for some, and has far more to do with what's in your head than what's on your body. But you had a good time. That's what matters, right?

    S

  14. #14
    Lady By Choice Leslie Langford's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    near Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    4,275
    Thank you for all the enlightening comments, ladies, as well as for providing your shared experiences.

    I guess what bothered me the most about being referred to in masculine terms during some of these encounters was that the SA's could have at least given me the benefit of the doubt, and that just maybe, I was simply a mannish-looking woman, of whom there are plenty around. I just don't think that I looked that overtly masculine i.e. virtually no evidence of a 5 o'clock shadow, trimmed and slightly shaped eyebrows, heavy make up - but not to the point of being theatrical or drag queenish etc. - yet they went straight there. And no, it wasn't that old standby - a prominent Adam's apple - as mine is quite understated.

    I'm still wracking my brain as to what the overriding tip-off was that caused these SA's to refer to me in male terms with such certainty. Clearly, they did not fear running the risk that perhaps - just perhaps - I might actually have been a mannish-looking GG who could have been highly offended by being referred to in those terms.

  15. #15
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    SF Bay Area
    Posts
    2,728
    Oh Leslie, don't torture yourself hon. You're pretty damn cute according to your avatar but looking like a natal female is an impossible limbo without surgery. In my hardly ever humble opinion. ;-)

    Like I said, I see CD's all the time that look great but I can still tell they're men. How? It's usually nothing specific and generally it's a number of things that don't necessarily scream male, but they definitely look out of place in a feminine presentation. posture? hands? nose? wrists? neck? walk? voice? hair? mouth? All of these things are notably different in women regardless of how masculine they are. I've seen 250lb women with a full on mustache and hairy arms, that still look like women. It's like fighting smoke for a man to pass as a woman using only grooming and clothing. Give yourself a break girl. Many transitioners will tell you that it took quite awhile of living full time before they could pull it off 90%.

    Keep trying for sure. Relish your successes, but understand that 99% of us have a raw deal in the looks like a man department, and only the miracle of modern science will save us.

    I do like your style though.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  16. #16
    Making a life for Tina! suchacutie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Posts
    4,235
    Leslie, I think you really have your head in the right place. You bring your good time with you and don't let anyone destroy it! Fantastic.

    What I also have great empathy for is the curiosity...what the heck made those SAs so confident that they were willing to use masculine pronouns? You didn't mention it but I assume that you either paid with cash, or Leslie has her own credit card? For me it's the curiosity factor plus the sense of accomplishment/pride in who Leslie is! Completely understandable

    I know the thing that is still hardest for me is the use of language. Even when the voice is completely passable, GGs have a language use that I don't yet understand fully, and it would be under our radar screen.

    But it sounds like you had a terrific day overall!

    tina

  17. #17
    Senior Member Debglam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    1,820
    Hey Leslie. Thanks for a very thoughtful and interesting post. All in all, it sounds like a great day!

    Quote Originally Posted by Leslie Langford View Post
    I'm still wracking my brain as to what the overriding tip-off was that caused these SA's to refer to me in male terms with such certainty. Clearly, they did not fear running the risk that perhaps - just perhaps - I might actually have been a mannish-looking GG who could have been highly offended by being referred to in those terms.
    You are right and that always makes me crazy when I hear these stories. The observer just doesn't know for sure and they are really going out on a limb GUESSING whether a person is "male" or "female."

    I wouldn't sweat the why you were read too much. I think it is a rare girl, particularly one who hasn't fully transitioned, that passes, at least not up close. There are just too many possible clues. Everything from appearance stuff to body clues (adam's apple, hands, etc), to how you carry yourself can get you read. Then there is always the voice and unless you are paying cash, the gender marker or photo on your ID will seal the deal.

    Don't let it override the fun!

    Debby

  18. #18
    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Lowestoft UK. Beverley was here.
    Posts
    30,955
    Being read is awkward at the best.
    In my earlier days when I would dress up and go to social gatherings because I was invited to, I would gravitate to the ladies section.
    Parties, men around the bar, women in the cornertalking about men and who they are likely to end up with at the end of the night.
    Because I was wearing a dress I was a woman, I was always asked fascinating and forward questions about my role in the affairs of the night.
    Others would forget and ask if I suffered with period pain. My reply on these occasions usually was, "I only have pain during periods like this."
    My point is women accepted you as one of them and totally forgot that there was a male amongst them.
    When I was single and invited out like this, I knewI would not go home alone. Gee it was so much fun being a girl. Being grown up and a womanhas it's benefits as well.

  19. #19
    To be, or not to be... ? Gaby2's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Southern Germany
    Posts
    1,245
    Thankyou for a delightful... eh, read, Leslie.
    It's not just the trail of events... it's being able to follow your thoughts that makes it so fascinating.
    Knowing that someone of your experience and dedication to achieving passable results has so many reservations and difficulties when out and about is awesome... and a tremendous encouragement.
    Despite your (only slight) frustration at being read, the nicest part of all is hearing how "normal" GGs react.
    Gaby
    Last edited by Gaby2; 12-22-2011 at 12:59 AM. Reason: grammar
    [SIZE="1"]When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... In the lilt of Irish laughter... When Irish hearts are happy... And When Irish Eyes Are Smiling... [/SIZE]

  20. #20
    Silver Member DanaR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Shopping at the mall, in the Pacific NW USA
    Posts
    2,088
    It sounds like you had a great day. In a situation like you encountered, if one of the SA's figured you out, then they will talk.
    Dana Ryan

  21. #21
    Gold Member DonnaT's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Northern Virginia
    Posts
    6,608
    A couple of things that are hard to hide are voice and hands. I remember the first time I saw a CD at the mall, I noticed her hands first. Nothing else would ave given her away, to my eyes.

    At other times, it can just be an instinct some GGs seem to have. My daughter saw one of my head shots I use for an avatar, and knew right off the picture was of a tranny, she just didn't know it was me.
    DonnaT

  22. #22
    GG SweetPea_GG's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    599
    I think being "read" as everyone put it is something you have to look past and not think or put concerns about while you are out or even after your back home in your safe environment. It's hard to explain but us GGs are pretty good at noticing a man in woman's clothing no matter how well they are dressed or think they are disguised. And as a CDer who travels out of the house it's just something that you will need to accept will happen. May e they never seen a man with women's clothing on or at least up close which is prob why the get together.
    I love the fact that my husband can piss me off and make me laugh within seconds of each other!
    I can handle being alone, but doesn't want to be married and feeling alone.
    The only reason the grass looks greener on the other side is because you don't have to mow that lawn.
    Husbands are like children, they behave best when they are sleeping.
    It's always nice when your husband just looks at you and tells you out of the blue, "You are Beautiful"

  23. #23
    Paula Paula_56's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Posts
    1,089
    Great post Leslie and also a lot of good replies from the other women on the forum here also!!!. I have had days like this also, for example a recent purchase Burlington coat factory I had run into trouble at the cashier. Seems the skirt size didn’t match the top, similar to your scenario, I had two SA’s and a manager trying to sort it all out while I stepped aside and they took other customers. The great part was all the “she’s “and “hers” being used in reference to me hmmmm, my ego soared. After my purchase I was off to the mall for some more shopping, as I stopped at the info booth to ask where a certain store was, the man behind the counter without thinking responded with “sir” Talk about being disappointed!!!! So much for my thoughts on passing.
    Now you mentioned possibly saying something about your presentation to the SA’s. I have done this on one occasion. I was at the MAC counter having my eyes re-done, and obviously the SA knew I was TG. She was sincere, courteous, and helpful, but when speaking to another SA used “him”. I really didn’t want to make a case out it, simply because she was being so nice. Of course the sales associate was the prettiest thing, and most friendly. When I chat with sales associates at MAC I always am very open about being transgendered, I find this is a great opportunity for outreach and education. What I have found is once you open up they usually have a ton of questions. This time the big question was why? It’s hard to answer this on fly, at the MAC counter. I adjusted my heels on the foot rest of the high make-up chair I was sitting in, looked down at my nails while I thought a minute, and said something like this, “I have always admired, respected, and envied woman, for as long as I can remember I always wanted to either be like them or be one myself. After many years of guilt and anxiety, I realized I may be different but not bad. I do this because I appreciate women and their attributes, Nurturing, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, and compassion.” I appreciate being treated as a woman, because I am trying so hard to present, look,and evovle as a woman, When someone calls me she I take it as a complement.
    I believe I made my point well; she stepped back, with a thoughtful look on her face, and said “Wow, that’s so beautiful”

  24. #24
    I'm wishing to be her SANDRA MICHELLE's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Chicago land
    Posts
    1,158
    Well said Paula. I have had the same thing happen on many ocassions and never really gave it much thought. I know that I don't pass but I really believe the SA's were confused as to the proper etiquite since sometimes they called me he and sometimes she. I do make it a point to let them know that I prefer "she" when I am dressed like this and shopping for womans clothes. Some day someone will write an etiquite book for all to know just how to talk to us. Oh and as for passing, when I look in the mirror I see a really beutiful, confidant and sexy woman, what everyone else sees is up to them.

  25. #25
    Senior Member Debglam's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    1,820
    Quote Originally Posted by Paula_56 View Post
    What I have found is once you open up they usually have a ton of questions. This time the big question was why? It’s hard to answer this on fly, at the MAC counter. I adjusted my heels on the foot rest of the high make-up chair I was sitting in, looked down at my nails while I thought a minute, and said something like this, “I have always admired, respected, and envied woman, for as long as I can remember I always wanted to either be like them or be one myself. After many years of guilt and anxiety, I realized I may be different but not bad. I do this because I appreciate women and their attributes, Nurturing, gentleness, empathy, sensitivity, and compassion.” I appreciate being treated as a woman, because I am trying so hard to present, look,and evovle as a woman, When someone calls me she I take it as a complement.
    I believe I made my point well; she stepped back, with a thoughtful look on her face, and said “Wow, that’s so beautiful”
    Well said Paula! I agree and I think that WAS some great outreach!

    Hugs,
    Debby

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  


Check out these other hot web properties:
Catholic Personals | Jewish Personals | Millionaire Personals | Unsigned Artists | Crossdressing Relationship
BBW Personals | Latino Personals | Black Personals | Crossdresser Chat | Crossdressing QA
Biker Personals | CD Relationship | Crossdressing Dating | FTM Relationship | Dating | TG Relationship


The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

Browse Crossdressers By State