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Thread: "The Lie" (long post)

  1. #26
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    Dear Lea,

    Your post is very well written and insightful. You competently separate "regular" lying from "deeply in denial" lying, and make a convincing case for not judging them with the same severity. I am not sure that the "hobbyist" or "fetishist" are not also caught up in psychological tangles of their own. They probably deserve equally lengthy and nuanced analyses. But that's digressing.

    This post makes me think we (the community) should write a sort of "caring for your crossdresser" type manual, analogous to the "caring for your introvert" essay. It could explain to confused SO's (and others) that their crossdressing partner is not an untrustworthy liar, but instead a scared and confused person that needs their support, or at least their forgiveness.

  2. #27
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    Lea what you described in the OP are justifications for lies.

    I did it... I lied.. i lied to her, and i lied to myself..
    i ended up transitioning... I love my exwife to this day. I was a great father, a great friend, and a great provider....but i lied to myself and to her... i feel guilty and ashamed of it, i am slowly getting over it. My ex has moved on and we are good friends and co parents... I never once blamed her or excused myself to her FOR MY ACTIONS...

    I think your OP is really trying to claim that some lies are justified for the reasons you discussed....
    your reasoning is solid, but the person on the other end of lie is still impacted the same way....

    so to me, its a selfish and self absorbed way to think of it...once you've told the lie, the only thing you can really do is try your best to make it better, not try to explain why you did it..

  3. #28
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    I don't feel adequately skilled to respond, since I came out to my SO long before we were married. So, I consulted an expert who had a good deal to say on the matter of Lying:

    In all lies there is wheat among the chaff...
    - A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court

    You cain't pray a lie.
    - Adventures of Huckleberry Finn

    The most outrageous lies that can be invented will find believers if a man only tells them with all his might.
    - Letter to San Francisco Alta California, dated May 17, 1867; published June 16, 1867

    [Lying] Man's most universal weakness.
    - quoted in Mark Twain and I, by Opie Read

    Carlyle said "a lie cannot live." It shows that he did not know how to tell them.
    - Mark Twain's Autobiography; Mark Twain in Eruption

    Lie--an abomination before the Lord and an ever present help in time of trouble.
    - 3/30/1901

    The lie, as a virtue, a principle, is eternal; the lie, as a recreation, a solace, a refuge in time of need, the fourth Grace, the tenth Muse, man's best and surest friend is immortal.
    - "On the Decay of the Art of Lying"

    One of the most striking differences between a cat and a lie is that a cat has only nine lives.
    - Pudd'nhead Wilson


    I would rather tell seven lies than make one explanation.
    - Letter to John Bellows, 11 April 1883

    Tis immoral to lie except for practice.
    - Maxim written in copy of Editorial Wild Oats donated in 1905 for the Bryn Mawr book sale. Reported in Washington Times, December 16, 1905, p. 3.

    Never tell a lie--P.S. - Except to keep in practice.
    - quoted in "Mark Twain's Autograph," Atlanta Constitution, 9 September 1906, p. E3.

  4. #29
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    So, it really comes down, to us single Cders, to have the Kahonies, ot risk losing a potential wife or SO, by telling them soon, in a relationship, BEFORE seriously comitted. We may have our hearts broken time and time again, but, maybe there is still someone out there, we have not met yet, or, maybe it is best, to just have friends, and stay single. I truly believe, that some married closet cders, are simply TERRIFIED there mate will find out, and disaster will occur. That is understandable. The cder may not want to hurt his mate. Opening a can of worms, can be hell on earth!I suppose it would be best, to disclose at the right time, place, and setting. I fell for such cd's. If i ever date again, and meet a potential mate, I will SURELY tell her EARLY in the friendship, come hell or high water. Great thread, Lea!

  5. #30
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    Ok, my 2 cents... you can call whatever you want a lie or not - BUT if you are:
    • stashing clothes in a duffel and saying that it's "just camping stuff" OR
    • going on a femme trip, and calling it a business trip OR
    • going out and claiming that you are going to poker night
    • etc


    YOU ARE LYING!!!

    Call not disclosing what you want, but i would say that most of us have lied because of dressing, and so we are lying to our significant others by not bringing it all out into the open.

    I'm not saying that bringing it out into the open is the path for everyone, but lets call a spade a spade.

    Hugs
    Kaylee

  6. #31
    Aspiring Member IamSara's Avatar
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    As one who just recently came out to my wife of 26 years, it was a very tramatic thing. we both have suffered greatly from it. We are trying to work through it but it is tough. As Marlena said in her post it goes way back and compensating to the extreme was the way to handle it. Hard as it has been all my life I am trying to lift that image and let the real me show through. In talking with my wife and kids they will tell you that they have seen the feminine in me all along but just never thought anything about it. I have no trouble doing anything around the house and the way I treat my wife and kids lends more towards the feminine side than a macho man I tried to tell everyone I was.
    At any rate I tend to agree with what was posted here as it is a dead ringer for my life as a TG.
    Sara

  7. #32
    a tomboy no more abigailf's Avatar
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    I didn't finish reading through all the replies, so if I repeat I am sorry.

    This was well thought out and although there could probably be more categories of "lyres" it seems it was quite encompassing.

    However, I would be curious to get an SO's point of view on this. I mean we forget one basic thing, if our SO perceives as as lying, then guess what, we are lying. Communication is not about transmission, it is about reception. Justify it all you want for your own conscience, but a hurt SO is still a hurt SO.

    Sure, I'm with you, I'd like to justify it in the best light possible. I lied to myself and believed it was nothing, but just because I lied to myself does not mean it is not a lie to everyone else around me. Whether it is subconscious or conscious behavior, we are still propagating a falsehood.
    - AF

    Look girl, act girl, feel girl ... be girl.

  8. #33
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    Gee, there is lot to digest here. Maybe too much for this simple brain, so my simple-minded response. If one end of the spectrum is "honest and forthright", then concealment is to some extent a "lie". (I guess the other end is "I am not a crossdresser.") Whether the "lie" is justified is another issue. I guess I had the idealistic view that marriage is like "until death do you part", so, I told my wife early on. 43 years later (Monday was out anniversary), she still does not mind to this person in a dress and uncombed wig bringing her coffee at 5 AM...
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Proud member of the Lacey Leigh Fan Club

  9. #34
    Gold Member Alice Torn's Avatar
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    I agree with the one poster, who said that CDers are some of the most easily guilt and shame tripped people on earth.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Treetop Louise View Post
    I agree with the one poster, who said that CDers are some of the most easily guilt and shame tripped people on earth.
    It's perverse. The root of it is wanting to validate those who are criticizing us. We accept guilt in an attempt to be reasonable, to acknowledge the seriousness of the difficulties we present. In doing so, we substitute reason for being patronized.

    Crossdressing and gender variation are NORMAL. The wrong-headedness is with the ones criticizing. When it comes to flinging the accusation of lies, we buy right in. "Yes, you're absolutely right. I was completely and totally wrong. I lied. I misrepresented. I misunderstood. I hid. [etc.]" Even when we are telling the truth!

    Accepting guilt is a choice.

    Lea

  11. #36
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    Lea, so happy you find my post interesting. You will note I posted before and after Frederique's post. I do believe if you read her post again you will agree her post was her lie, one of the same, to which as she says, " .....since I wasn't lying to myself anymore". Whether the gender enhanced person accepts the lie or not, does not change the fact it is a lie that is not being shared with the s/o. Do not confuse nor combine the fact one needs to accept who they are with the lie they hold within.
    The misuse of the term ' casual crossdresser' may appear fairly raised but in reality, along with other misused terms such as 'hobbyist', are conveniently used as disguises to justify the lie they carry. Auto restoration is a guy hobby, fishing is a guy hobby, hunting is a guy hobby, but dressing in women's clothing for sexual gratification or any other reason needed to dress en femme, never was, isn't now, nor ever will be, a hobby of anyone's. How many people can you name participate in a hobby that no one directly connected to them knows about?
    One can dress up THE LIE with window dressings to make it appear to be something else but it remains THE LIE. Only disclosure can rectify it.

  12. #37
    Aspiring Artist Kelly DeWinter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post
    .....

    Accepting guilt is a choice.

    Lea
    Denial of guilt is a choice as well.

    Lea,

    From your posts you assume we are all born knowing right from wrong , I reality we learn through experience and others what is right and wrong (yes culture !). and in fact we never stop learning. But in the end it allways boils down to choices, what a person feels is in their own best interest, others may NOT feel is in THEIR best interest.

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  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter View Post
    Denial of guilt is a choice as well.

    Lea,

    From your posts you assume we are all born knowing right from wrong , I reality we learn through experience and others what is right and wrong (yes culture !). and in fact we never stop learning. But in the end it allways boils down to choices, what a person feels is in their own best interest, others may NOT feel is in THEIR best interest.

    Kelly
    Yes, denial of guilt is also a choice.

    I'm not sure where you get that I assume we are born knowing right from wrong. I actually do not assume that. Right and wrong are social constructs. We are naturally hurt by many things we do to one another, but not all cultures assign the notion of wrong to all harms.

    Guilt has an interesting social utility. It exists for reconciliation and reparation by providing the emotional trigger. One who feels (or at least truthfully acknowledges) guilt essentially becomes submissive to judgement. Without a corresponding response by the person to whom submission is made, no reconciliation is possible.

    Guilt can be one way of identitying a lie in oneself. Thing is, guilt doesn't correspond only to lies or wrongs. I feel guilt over many things, including things I've done to hurt people completely unintentionally, even through chance circumstances. I never feel or accept guilt, however, for negative consequences resulting from either, 1) a deliberate choice or action I took that I think right, or 2) a gross misrepresentation imposed on me by someone else. I might feel terrible about those consequences, might feel the need for variety of reasons to do something about them, but that's not guilt.

    One can know they lie, ought to feel guilty, and let that lead them to taking action. One can be caught in a lie, might have to be humbled to discover guilt and the need for reconciliation and reparation, which will lead them to action.

    One can also be guilted before they are ready to deal with something. And finally, one can be pressured into accepting guilt for something they haven't done. Both destroy guilt's utility and value.

    It is interesting that so many take my OP (and subsequent posts) as justifying lying. I do not. In every single instance where someone knows what they are, what they are doing, they absolutely should be telling their SO. Period. I include in that those who lie to themselves, are self-deluding, etc. If you search my older posts, I've invariably counseled people struggling or questioning coming out to their SO to do so.

    I don't include those with genuine psychological issues. That seems obvious to me in the case of the deeply suppressed. What I take from many responses, however, is that a lot of people disbelieve in those issues in some very fundamental ways.

    Lea

  14. #39
    Aspiring Member Dawn cd's Avatar
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    Is lying always wrong? Well, yes, but are all withheld facts lies? They may be many things we don't tell our friends and spouses. In fact, the person who goes around blabbering everything that is on his/her mind would seem to lack prudence and judgment. If we withhold information that another person needs to know for his or her own safety and wellbeing, then we are doing damage. In that case silence is a lie. But if there is no need to know, then our silence may be an act of kind consideration.

  15. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lea Paine View Post
    The heart of it is this, which also speaks to your question about omissions: The omission must be conscious, or knowledgeable, to constitute a lie. I don't agree with several who have commented that crossdressers always know what they are. I do think that there is a knowledge or awareness threshhold that is crossed(!) at which point the crossdresser absolutely must tell their SO. Doubtless, a lot of crossdressers justify that away, and justification, as opposed to a real lack of knowledge, IS part of the lying syndrome. To me, the threshhold is not "gee, I tried on my wife's slip a couple of times" but when he looks in the mirror and realizes, or knows, that dressing is part of him, whether or not it reaches the formality of "I am a crossdresser."
    Lea, thanks for this thread. It's given me much to think about, like so much else I've come across on this forum.

    The paragraph above is particularly apt in my case. Maybe some people will think I'm trying to make excuses for myself, but this is something that I can say in all honesty: I went into a marriage knowing that I was a crossdresser and without telling the wife about it--but I don't believe I lied to her, by omission or in any other way.

    My reason is this: The omission must be conscious, or knowledgeable, to constitute a lie. I was fairly mixed up when I was young. There were a lot of things about myself I didn't understand. (A girlfriend once got me going down the road to understanding another aspect of my personality, besides my CDing, that I didn't understand). I knew I was a crossdresser, but what I didn't understand was the nature or significance of my problem. I'd never met another CDer, had never read anything about CDing, knew nothing whatsoever about the problem. It was something that generally I tried not to think about too much.

    So what sort of impact does CDing have on the life of the CDer and on the life of his SO? I knew nothing about those things, had never considered them, wasn't even aware that CDing might have a significant impact on her life. It's not even that I was in denial. I hadn't considered the issue long enough to deny anything. Basically, I was wandering through life about as oblivious to the self as one can be. This may be hard for some people to understand, but that's the way it was with me at the time.

    I think it's true to say that in order to tell a lie you have to be conscious of what you're lying about. And I wasn't fully conscious of my CDing, in the sense that I had no notion of its significance and consequences.

    I know what a lie is, and I know when I'm telling one. And like a lot of CDers, I have a keen sense of guilt. But I never felt that I lied to the wife. The marriage is now long over, and when it fell apart, it had nothing to do with my CDing, which the wife did become aware of.

    Once you get to a threshold of consciousness, then, yes, you can tell a lie. I'm past that threshold now, and the failure to tell a potential SO I would certainly regard as a lie. I wouldn't go into a relationship now like I did when I was young.

    If anyone feels I'm being dishonest about all this, you're free to raise any issue you like. I don't want to sound like I'm condoning dishonesty or lying, because I'm not. I very strongly believe in those two things--especially in a relationship. It's just that I was fairly strange in ways when I was young.

  16. #41
    Silver Member Babeba's Avatar
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    This may be a can of worms I'm opening up...

    ... But, by the very Virtue that we are on crossdressers.com, everyone on here has enough self knowledge that - if they were in the start of a new relationship they thought could get serious - they really OUGHT to be disclosing what they know about themselves to that potential SO. If that is the right relationship to be in, she will be accepting to some level. If the gut reaction is that she can't be trusted to know your true self - what is the relationship built on?? I was told early, and I cannot stress enough how important it was to me as part of our relationship. Having been shared with, I share with my partner back. We're very close mainly because of how much we trust each other, and a lot of that was built when he trusted me enough to share that big secret.

    In regards to suppression, late blooming, realizing what your nature is when in a relationship - I really can see it. Truly. People are always learning about themselves, and self acceptance is a positive thing. However - marriage is a journey of two people together through life. Maybe as an unmarried youngster, I'm being romantic about the institution, but I really think that once that self knowledge has lead to, 'I'm a crossdresser' or 'I could be TG' or 'am I really TS?' that even if it's been 20 years since you said those vows, they still bind in that spirit of working together. How hurtful is it if the person you relied on through thick and thin, was your life partner, didn't trust you enough to ask for your support as they tried to sort through a major issue that really could impact them? Working with you to support you as you find answers may make your spouse feel Invested and involved in your journey towards self acceptance.

    Also, 'I couldn't tell you sooner because I didn't know' is an acceptable reason to bring this up later in marriage. It's not a lie - unless, of course, you've been signed up to TG websites for ages, have a femme persona and wardrobe, and have clearly put time and effort in. That gets back into lying territory again.

    Lea, you've obviously put a lot of thought into this. I don't think on the overall there is one Big Lie that is too hard to get over... It is all the little lies my fellow GGs seem to struggle with added all together, especially while wrapping their heads around a conpletely different idea of how gender works, and who their partner is. Little lies are continuous process, not like a person decides once to not disclose and does not have to do anything else to keep that fiction going... It is constant through the day. I also believe it is every person's right to know the important factors that shape their lives. Maybe I'm biased - of course I am biased - but no one should have major information withheld from them that could change the decisions they make about their own lives. To the outside, there isn't a lot of functional difference between the 'protector' and the 'suppressed' that has carried on a little long.

  17. #42
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawn cd View Post
    If we withhold information that another person needs to know for his or her own safety and wellbeing, then we are doing damage. In that case silence is a lie. But if there is no need to know, then our silence may be an act of kind consideration.
    When you read most what the GG's post here and often what a TG who is splitting with their SO, you can see that this information is often a "need to know" situation. You may not feel that it is but I will go back to the equity analogy. The longer you keep this hidden the bigger the shock and the bigger the hurt because the other person had ideas and expectations. If nothing else this site should show that keeping it a secret usually doesn't lead to a happy ending. It hurts and when you hurt someone close, it hurts more. Hiding what you do from your friends and neighbors doesn't hurt, but that woman (or man depending) that you have become "cleaved unto" has a vested interest in your lives together. So you broke a vase...silence is OK. So you break a heart...you should have spoken up
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  18. #43
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    Hi Annabelle, I dressed since I can remember, knew I was different but didn't have a name for it during adolescent years, pre-computer days, etc. At the time I suppose I probably even called it 'a problem ' as well, I don't recall. I was never one to dwell much on anything or worry about much for long. I have always just gone with the flow and accepted life as it came and continue to deal with it as it comes(long story,technically, I am not supposed to be alive).
    I never considered the impact being tg might have on my marriage at an early age into the marriage and never gave it much thought at the time. I like eveyone else, thought I could quit, purge it, change, etc., only to have it return without planning it. So was it a lie at the time? Did I know I was permanently gender enhanced? Did I know I could not control it for life? Nope, did not. I was not concealing any lies at that time. IF however, I was to expose my gender isssue then, not even knowing at the time what I was doing was recognizing a potential life long lie, and say to my wife at the time " Honey, I know you do not know anything about this because I never told you before, I guess because I never really gave it much importance always thinking it would just go away, but maybe telling you could help me understand something about myself and we can try to figure this out together. Let me start from the beginning....", I would have been accepting and exposing my gender issues then and there, and no lie would have been born . But I didn't and few do. I do understand how easy it was to become confused. So when does the lie become 'the lie'? When does the lie become a lie to you and when does it become a lie to others? It will never occur at the same time, never. When one consciously knows what they do is 'different( shame)' from social norms, hides(fear/guilt) it from others in any of many ways, with or without the assistance of the internet, regardless of understanding any implications the secret(lie) may have, constitutes a lie to yourself. The lie to others from the cd's point of view, occurs when one knowingly lies to the s/o having kept the lie a secret for whatever reason. The lie initially, from the s/o's standpoint I would expect , occurs at the point of discovery. That realization can change after discussions reveal more.



    My reason is this: The omission must be conscious, or knowledgeable, to constitute a lie. I was fairly mixed up when I was young. There were a lot of things about myself I didn't understand. (A girlfriend once got me going down the road to understanding another aspect of my personality, besides my CDing, that I didn't understand). I knew I was a crossdresser, but what I didn't understand was the nature or significance of my problem. I'd never met another CDer, had never read anything about CDing, knew nothing whatsoever about the problem. It was something that generally I tried not to think about too much.

    So what sort of impact does CDing have on the life of the CDer and on the life of his SO? I knew nothing about those things, had never considered them, wasn't even aware that CDing might have a significant impact on her life. It's not even that I was in denial. I hadn't considered the issue long enough to deny anything. Basically, I was wandering through life about as oblivious to the self as one can be. This may be hard for some people to understand, but that's the way it was with me at the time.

    I think it's true to say that in order to tell a lie you have to be conscious of what you're lying about. And I wasn't fully conscious of my CDing, in the sense that I had no notion of its significance and consequences.

    I know what a lie is, and I know when I'm telling one. And like a lot of CDers, I have a keen sense of guilt. But I never felt that I lied to the wife. The marriage is now long over, and when it fell apart, it had nothing to do with my CDing, which the wife did become aware of.

    Once you get to a threshold of consciousness, then, yes, you can tell a lie. I'm past that threshold now, and the failure to tell a potential SO I would certainly regard as a lie. I wouldn't go into a relationship now like I did when I was young.

    If anyone feels I'm being dishonest about all this, you're free to raise any issue you like. I don't want to sound like I'm condoning dishonesty or lying, because I'm not. I very strongly believe in those two things--especially in a relationship. It's just that I was fairly strange in ways when I was young.[/QUOTE]

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by jillleanne View Post
    Hi Annabelle, I dressed since I can remember, knew I was different but didn't have a name for it during adolescent years, pre-computer days, etc. At the time I suppose I probably even called it 'a problem ' as well, I don't recall. I was never one to dwell much on anything or worry about much for long. I have always just gone with the flow and accepted life as it came and continue to deal with it as it comes(long story,technically, I am not supposed to be alive).
    I never considered the impact being tg might have on my marriage at an early age into the marriage and never gave it much thought at the time. I like eveyone else, thought I could quit, purge it, change, etc., only to have it return without planning it. So was it a lie at the time? Did I know I was permanently gender enhanced? Did I know I could not control it for life? Nope, did not. I was not concealing any lies at that time. IF however, I was to expose my gender isssue then, not even knowing at the time what I was doing was recognizing a potential life long lie, and say to my wife at the time " Honey, I know you do not know anything about this because I never told you before, I guess because I never really gave it much importance always thinking it would just go away, but maybe telling you could help me understand something about myself and we can try to figure this out together. Let me start from the beginning....", I would have been accepting and exposing my gender issues then and there, and no lie would have been born . But I didn't and few do. I do understand how easy it was to become confused. So when does the lie become 'the lie'? When does the lie become a lie to you and when does it become a lie to others? It will never occur at the same time, never. When one consciously knows what they do is 'different( shame)' from social norms, hides(fear/guilt) it from others in any of many ways, with or without the assistance of the internet, regardless of understanding any implications the secret(lie) may have, constitutes a lie to yourself. The lie to others from the cd's point of view, occurs when one knowingly lies to the s/o having kept the lie a secret for whatever reason. The lie initially, from the s/o's standpoint I would expect , occurs at the point of discovery. That realization can change after discussions reveal more.
    Hi, Jilleanne. I can certainly go along with what you're saying here.

    What I was guilty of at the time was ignorance. Somebody once said that we have a moral responsibily to others to pursue knowledge, in particular self-knowledge. People can be hurt by ignorance. And if you choose to remain ignorant when you do have the opportunity to be a wiser and more thinking person, then you are failing to do something that would reduce the harm you do to others. So I should have been more thoughtful about myself and my nature. But I was young at the time. I really hope I'm better now. I do know that if I were to go into another relationship at this point of my life, I'd do it differently.

    Once you become aware of yourself and your nature, it becomes a lie not to open up to those who need you to do so. I think that willfull ignorance is no excuse. And there are plenty of people who are guilty of willfull ignorance.

    Best wishes, Annabelle.

  20. #45
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    Lots of good thinking here. In my mind, it comes down to one thing. My wife is my best friend, the person I choose to **share** my life with, and the person I will protect until the day we die. Under those circumstances, there is nothing that I should hide from her. When you hide something from someone in order to protect them, it is a unhealthy and co-dependent act. People need to stand on their own two feet and deal with life themselves. They can't do that with missing information.

    Is it okay to hide financial difficulty from your wife to only tell her when the house is being foreclosed on? Is it okay to hide it from your wife that you are having health issues to only tell her when the doctor says he can't do anything more for you? Yes, these may having a varying degree of impact to a marriage, but it is all the same premise. A marriage is a shared life. So to have this information and not share it is a form of lying. It doesn't matter whether we just underdress or do drag. It is premise and not the execution that is at the core of the thought process.

  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Babeba View Post
    ... But, by the very Virtue that we are on crossdressers.com, everyone on here has enough self knowledge that - if they were in the start of a new relationship they thought could get serious - they really OUGHT to be disclosing what they know about themselves to that potential SO. If that is the right relationship to be in, she will be accepting to some level. If the gut reaction is that she can't be trusted to know your true self - what is the relationship built on?? I was told early, and I cannot stress enough how important it was to me as part of our relationship. Having been shared with, I share with my partner back. We're very close mainly because of how much we trust each other, and a lot of that was built when he trusted me enough to share that big secret.

    In regards to suppression, late blooming, realizing what your nature is when in a relationship - I really can see it. Truly. People are always learning about themselves, and self acceptance is a positive thing. However - marriage is a journey of two people together through life. Maybe as an unmarried youngster, I'm being romantic about the institution, but I really think that once that self knowledge has lead to, 'I'm a crossdresser' or 'I could be TG' or 'am I really TS?' that even if it's been 20 years since you said those vows, they still bind in that spirit of working together. How hurtful is it if the person you relied on through thick and thin, was your life partner, didn't trust you enough to ask for your support as they tried to sort through a major issue that really could impact them? Working with you to support you as you find answers may make your spouse feel Invested and involved in your journey towards self acceptance.

    Also, 'I couldn't tell you sooner because I didn't know' is an acceptable reason to bring this up later in marriage. It's not a lie - unless, of course, you've been signed up to TG websites for ages, have a femme persona and wardrobe, and have clearly put time and effort in. That gets back into lying territory again.

    Lea, you've obviously put a lot of thought into this. I don't think on the overall there is one Big Lie that is too hard to get over... It is all the little lies my fellow GGs seem to struggle with added all together, especially while wrapping their heads around a conpletely different idea of how gender works, and who their partner is. Little lies are continuous process, not like a person decides once to not disclose and does not have to do anything else to keep that fiction going... It is constant through the day. I also believe it is every person's right to know the important factors that shape their lives. Maybe I'm biased - of course I am biased - but no one should have major information withheld from them that could change the decisions they make about their own lives. To the outside, there isn't a lot of functional difference between the 'protector' and the 'suppressed' that has carried on a little long.
    Thank you - all points well-taken. I agree that members of crossdressers.com (and other, similar sites) are WELL beyond any kind of awareness threshhold.

    The comment on compounded lies is interesting. People in willfull denial often do pile up justifications - and the net effect can be greater than their sum. Thus do a hundred small things become "living a lie" (sometimes a big one, see also Lorileah's comments in #43).

    Taking a different direction for the moment, what of the situation where a SO is known to not want to know? There are occasional comments from GGs in the forum wishing they had not been told. As I see it, there are two versions of that. One that essentially constitutes regret at being told something that they did, in fact, need to know. The second where the SO really wishes the CDer had simply kept it to himself. Now I'm not quite sure HOW someone would know - an interesting question in itself - but it seems to remove the lie from the lie, so to speak, for a small segment of the population anyway. It also, unfortunately, provides a justification avenue for those who shouldn't go there.

    Lea
    Last edited by LeaP; 12-26-2011 at 02:40 PM. Reason: missing the indefinite article

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