My Theripist is a peach!! My Life has totally changed for the better having found her!Originally Posted by Bree_K
With the exception of my SO she is the one person I have been completely honest with. Complete honesty changes your life!
My Theripist is a peach!! My Life has totally changed for the better having found her!
With the exception of my SO she is the one person I have been completely honest with. Complete honesty changes your life!
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
Steph: what bothers me about your post is you seem to be asking if it will OK to be trans. It's really not a choice but it is who you are. I did not wake up one morning and say "Wow, I need to be trans." After time spent with my therapist, I know who I am, I finally like Me and really dont care if my preist or the church thinks I am going to Hell because I was born this way.
I honestly don't know if I can live as a man for the rest of my life, but as I said if the pastor shows scripture that clearly says if I transition I'll go to hell, I'll do my best to live as a man. I'm walking into this this with 2 exected outcomes, I'm accepted as good in God's eyes and recieve peace on a spiritual level, and the hope I can persuade my family that it's not a sin. the other expectation is it's a terrible sin, and I'd need to discuss with my therapist the issues I have on this front, maybe learn coping mechanisms for hw to live as a man or something...
if it turns out to be the latter, I fully expect that at 50 or 60, I'm going to need to transition again, that time with and even strong need, and I'll be filled with regret for not doing it sooner. that's is why I'm trying to act now so I don't have that regret...
Wow Steph...
All I can say is that I hope you get what you want.
I have no doubt however that even if your pastor says yes, you will figure out another way to sabatoge your own life, and I feel bad for you.
Nothing we can say can really help you ...you must help yourself ...and you are clearly not at a point where you can do that..
Life is hard, you better get used to it
There are something like 80,000 verses in the bible, and about 5 of them address homosexual behavior, and 3 address transgender behavior. However, the cites relating to homosexuality are actually references to the most brutal form of rape. The orders to kill boys dressed as girls are related to the practice of invading armies to kill ALL boys, even very young ones. The mothers would often dress their sons as girls if they were too weak or too young to fight, hoping that they would merely be raped and could avenge their deaths when they grew up. Remember that all older women were also killed immediately. And all this in spite of the commandment that says "Thou shalt not kill".
If your pastor tries to go with the "King James Translation" and has no concept of the context, or the translation errors, then he probably isn't very reliable as a pastor and even less qualified to speak on behalf of God. Remember that Leviticus was written for people who lived in tents, moved every day, and men would have several wives, as many as they could afford. People who depended on Manna for 40 years and had been condemned by God to die in the wilderness - only their children would see the promised land. Not even Moses was allowed to cross over.
Jesus came to free us from those traditions, the "Kosher Laws", and gave us freedom. Paul still warned against the sodomite - which referred to brutal rape of men or women.
There is nothing in the New Testament - and certainly nothing spoken by Jesus that condemns transgender or transsexuals. In fact Jesus even prophesied that some would make themselves Enunichs in his name. Perhaps, in making the transition, you are fulfilling this prophesy.
Wow! I really can't believe that you would let another MAN tell you how to live your life.
Preachers and pastors are humans, therefore they can full of crap as well and more often
than not they are. If this is how you really feel, then I have nothing more to ever say to
you if you are going to give up just like that.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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Listen Cindi, I have had LOTS of experience with Priests, brothers, sisters from the Catholic church and I have had
lots of experience with preachers and pastors from evangelistic churches and I have seen them violate ever single
rule in the book with psychotherapy. So spare me any crap that they received the same type of psychological training.
I have no issue with anyone's relationship with God, I have a very close one to him myself, but that does not mean
that I will put up with statements that are clearly NOT true. So what is your aversion to therapist huh? They have
a better understanding on these issues than your preachers and pastors do. So I would trust them before your kind.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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so act now and stop trying to get everyones permission.
It sounds like you want everyone to give you permission a lot more than you actually want the transition itself.
I have a letter all written up for the meeting and I'm quoting Matthew 19:12
I'm not blindly accepting his views, I'm going to write down the Bible verses he quotes, read it over, go back to the original languages to find out what the intent of the verses were then have a long think about if my pastor's views are right or not. trust me I am not 'giving up' I'm doing everything I can. I'm sorry if I've upset you, I know you must be disappointed in me, but I need to know my God is going to accept me, I'm just going to the pastor for guidance as he knows the scripture better than I. I've done research online, used the strong's concordance and the more I dig the more I feel I'm safe. But I have to make sure I'm not giving myself false hope.
I'm afraid, there are consequences to doing any action, and this is a HUGE action, I don't know what to expect, I'm trying to do this as safely as I can. I know my Dad woun't likely ever accept this he's so homophobic and out of it that he thinks CD's and TS's are gay... I know if I transition I'm losing people in my life, and I'm willing to do that I'm trying to brace myself and minimize my losses.
Disappointed isn't the word Steph. Many of us feel like we're watching a slow motion train wreck and there's nothing we can do to save anyone involved. The word you're looking for or should be is; resolve. You can come out as gay and two weeks later start dating women again and say it was a phase, but when you come out as transsexual, you can't call that bullet back. Changing your gender in front of everyone you know takes a resolve that I don't see in your writing. Of course it's none of my business and Lord knows I could be wrong but this journey is far too difficult to attempt without the courage of your convictions. We ALL want to be accepted and supported but it is not necessary. The only thing we NEED is our own resolve. A single minded dedication to the end game. We can be derailed, delayed and dismissed but we won't be denied our birthright. I didn't ask to be this way and I'll be damned if someone is going to stand in the way of my happiness.
You don't need anyone to believe in you but you absolutely must believe in yourself.
Let me tell you right now what to expect. You can and should expect to lose EVERYTHING!!!! And when I say everything I mean just that. Everything. Your SO, your parents, your home, your friends, your siblings, your job, your money, everything. There is just no other way to go through with transition. If you are not prepared to lose everything then you should not attempt transition.
Now, do we all lose everything? No. Of course not. Some lose very little. But the possibility is there, and you have to be prepared. If you are saying that you can't transition unless you can be sure you WON'T lose those things that are dear to you, then you shouldn't even begin to think about actually transitioning. Don't do it. You are not a very good candidate.
Stephie
I'll respect the degree of your faith, Steph, though my own faith lies elsewhere and speaks differently to me. I would suggest, however, that if your pastor says you are sinning against the bible by being who you are and expressing yourself as the person your creator begot, then you should seek opinions from others. We do this, or ought to, with doctors when one suggests something of importance regarding our health, so it seems just as prudent to do so with pastors, priests, rabbis, or any other religious authority. Just as with other individuals, you have both conservative and liberal religious people; if your pastor happens to be more conservative, then you owe it to yourself to also seek the opinions of more moderately minded pastors as well.
“I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best.”
― Marilyn Monroe
Up date: I went to midnight mass last night with my wife, fully dressed as Kimberly. I felt so special and no one even noticed or said a thing to me. It was so special to walk in heels and dress and Neal at the alter and take the bread and wine.
I have broken the ice and the water is wonderful.
I wish each and everyone a Merry Christmas
Love Kimberly
What a wonderful Christmas Eve !I went to midight Mass also enfemme, ast night, with two other TG friends, no problems. I was only the second time that I went to church as a woman.
Last edited by ArleneRaquel; 12-25-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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I was going to say the same thing Lea.
I believe you are going to find that your pastor will not support you in your search of the scriptures is correct. As Julia said you may be thrown to the wolves, I am here to tell you she is probably correct. Like you I was very involved in church and in my faith. When my crossdressing became known I was told that I could repent my evil sins or I would be voted out of the church. Guess what, I got voted out of the church. I know what I am and that isn't going to change. However, as I KNOW that Christ died for my sins I WILL go to heaven when I die. Whether I am a CD/TG or not.
Good luck with talking to him but be careful what you actually tell him. He will think he only has your best interests at heart and as I have found out those interests are not neccessarily what is best.
Sara
Look, it is quite simple. Christ taught us to love everyone, and to not be afraid of anything. And I believe that the man meant what he said. Love EVERYONE. Even the twit pastors who oppress you. Even the greenbough baptist nuts. I think the concern most folks here have expressed is that your pastor is, like many religious people have a reputation for doing, going to be afraid of you and react to that fear by condemning you and your "deviant" "behavior." You can tell even before you go in the office; what is your pastor's stance on homosexuality?I want him to confirm my belief that the Bible is ok with being trans (though I like the idea it could be a gift as well), using scripture as doctrinal proof. I'm confused, I'm going in question the question is it ok, so confidence isn't super high, I'm not to try educating him, how am I supposed to do this? how should i approach him? what questions can I ask? I don't want to upset him, I'm looking for answers to a difficult question, one that my family has thier mind made up on.
I thought showing what the original language had said in Deu 22:5 and 1 Cor. 6:9 would pop the bubble that it was wrong and them show what Jesus said in Matthew 19:12 to show that It's not a sin, but you're right if I challence his beliefs to something he's not open to being challenged, then it'll turn ugly
I can show you scripture that shows Christ eating with trans people. There isn't much more affirmation I need.
And frankly, who gives a flip what the bible says? If the bible tells you that it is OK to keep slaves, (it does) are you going to? Of course not. If the bible tells you that you have to stone people who get divorced (it does) are you going to? Of course not. If the bibles says that a woman who has been raped has to marry her rapist (it does!) do you agree? Of course not. So why do you care about this? I'm with the other girls. I don't think this is about the scripture, or about faith, or about
getting permission or clarification or a blessing.
My therapist for instance is made of pure, uncut, unadulterated awesome.
FTFY
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
I'm rewriting my letter for my pastor to be more direct, explaining my position why I believe it's ok Biblically, while at the same time showing him that I respect his knowledge and acknowledge he's studied the scripture far more than I have. I started looking for another church incase things gone south. I also plan to speak to another pastor I know if this pastor doesn't respect my views.
in more favourable views I'm going to my next therapy session dressed as a woman, I understand part of the problem I have, I've been timidly approaching this trying to ease into transitioning, but if I don't push harder, I'll either be stuck as a man or I won't be quite a man or a woman. I'll try to talk to my therapist about pushing forward, versus taking risks...
For his time, Jesus was essentially a transsexual. In a society dominated by violence, multiple armed uprisings, Roman power and occupation, and a priesthood with the power of both religion and government, Jesus promoted the idea of turning the other cheek, walking the extra mile, and showing compassion, not just for friends and strangers, but even for enemies.
These were probably very "feminine" qualities in the time of Jesus. They are certainly the antithesis of the violent attacks done by the United States against it's enemies over the last 100 years.
Translations of the bible, and even the ability to read the bible, were often politically motivated. Many churches actually forbade anyone other than priests from reading the actual bible, because the teachings of Jesus challenged the establish order.
Steph,
Have you really taken the time to read 1 Corinthians 6?
Now I have seen many pastors and Christians in contempt of verses
6:1 to 6:5 and verses 6:9 to 6:12 are taken so out of context.
Go and read it and tell me what you think this all really means and I will come back
with my interpretation of this chapter. It will be interesting to compare notes. If
anyone else is a Christian, I would like to hear their thoughts as well.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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was the trans person Jesus ate with, the man who was carrying the water? In honesty I've never heard my pastor address homosexuality, but I can assume he won't be favorable to it. recently I spoke with my mom and while I didn't specifically mention the trans stuff with my mm during the conversation I spoke around it and I feel better about this Biblically speaking. even if it is a sin, it's forgivable, that is assuming it's a sin. it makes my pastor's input less important.
I am and I'm at least curious to see what you girls come up with.
1 Corinthians 6
Here we are well warned about judging others and this section of this chapter also reminds me about why the clergy,6:1 Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
6:2 Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
6:3 Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
6:4 If then ye have judgements of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
the pastors & preachers should not be judging others. It warns us specifically about judging other members of the
church & if we do it, then we should feel ashamed. And we see this happen a lot and this is why personally I won't
ever trust any blasphemous bigot who ignores this fundamental rule outlined the Bible because they are out of line.
Now what is being pointed out here, it is those who try to judge other Christians who should be ashamed because6:5 I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?
6:6 But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.
6:7 Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
6:8 Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
noone else in the church is wise enough and isn't without fault. So anyone who claims to be without fault and can
judge another Christian is nothing but a fraud. How many so-called Christians have we seen violate this rule eh?
In the very start of verse 6:9 it questions who is righteous and who has the right to inherit the kingdom of God, yeah?6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Then it goes on to say who won't inherit the Kingdom of God, but this is where it also starts to get really interesting
in the next verse 6:11...
Here is says very clearly that it doesn't matter who you are, and that you will be saved if you have Jesus6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
in your life. If you have committed a crime, murder, rape, stealing, extortion, etc or if you are effeminate
then these things you cannot change. If you have killed someone you will always be a murderer, If you have
raped someone, you will always be a rapist. If you have conned someone, you will always be an extortionist.
If you were a prostitute then you will always be a prostitute. If you are an effeminate male, then you are
mostly likely a transsexual or an intersex person and nothing can ever change who you really are. But if you
have Christ in your life, then you will be saved & that is of course, if it was a sin, but not everything is a sin.
Verse 6:12 also points out exactly what you just stated here Steph...
even if it is a sin, it's forgivable, that is assuming it's a sin.
Then we are well warned about being a glutton and being greedy in the name of pleasure6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.
or because we can and we are also warned about living in the flesh and not in the spirit...
And just as God raised Jesus up, he will raise up all the sinners because they came to the Lord6:13 Meats for the belly, and the belly for meats: but God shall destroy both it and them. Now the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord for the body.
6:14 And God hath both raised up the Lord, and will also raise up us by his own power.
and this does also include us transsexuals who are right in our spirit and have Jesus in our lives.
It doesn't matter if someone was a sinner, if they are in the spirit with the Lord in their life6:15 Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make them the members of an harlot? God forbid.
6:16 What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
6:17 But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.
then they are part of the same spirit and this is why another human cannot judge this person.
We are then warned about "sexual immorality" or "sexual perversions". So if we are not being sexually immoral6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
then there is nothing wrong with what we do with our lives - just be a good person and don't judge others. So
according to this then you are right with God even if you are an effeminate man, or in our case a transsexual.
It gets even more interesting when you dig into the use of the word "effeminate" because this word has nothing
to do with being female if you did into the history of it. It was used and implied towards those who refused to
take up arms and were cowardly or woman like. The word effeminate or Malakia means "Soft and Gentle"
The Romans (Greeks) also used Malakos as an insult for their enemies which is used in the New Testament.
The modern term still used today in the greek language is called Malakas which means "wankër".
So being a 'soft and gentle' man because you refused to take up arms and fight is a sin eh?
Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-27-2011 at 12:14 PM.
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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Thanks. That lines up with what I already worked out. It's part of our nature, and if it is a sin we are forgiven for it anyway.
1 Corinthians 6:1-4 is really something that needs to be followed better :P
Many of us have suffered at the hands of misguided Christians who have been taught that boys acting like women is a capital crime and that boys who do this should be put to death, or at least made to suffer to the point where they either stop dressing or kill themselves. There are such directives in the bible, related to a specific situation of invading and taking a city, where ALL of the boys and ALL of the older married women - were to be killed, as well as all of the able bodied men. This was to prevent the young boys from growing up to avenge the murder of their families and the rapes of their sisters.
Today, war has rules, we are more "civilized", and even in gang warfare, the winning gang doesn't wipe out all males in the invaded territory.
However, because the Bible has been so poorly translated, words in Hebrew that require entire phrases, or entire paragraphs of translation were translated word for word. A Yenta was translated to "*****", or "Harlot". A "Putz" was translated to "Lie with" or "bed". In Hebrew, there are 12 words that get translated to love, 8 words that get translated to sex or marriage. There are 6 words for "maiden", and 10 words that translate to "Harlot" that have nothing to do with sex.
Unfortunately, there are many denominations of the Christian religion, as well as many sects within the major denominations - who are not properly trained in all of these subtleties and distinctions. Many of them have their own agenda. For example, some monastic orders look for transgendered and homosexual boys and consider them perfect candidates for a life of Celibacy and Chastity in orders like the Franciscans. St Francis of Assissi was homosexual, and probably transgendered as well.
If you are a Christian, and you fear that you might spend eternity in hell if you have the sex change, then you might want to talk to someone you feel is God's representative on earth. The only problem is that if he tells you that you WILL go to hell just for even THINKING about changing your sex, many choose a terminal option."Who is he," we ask, "this holy man? Who is he to question me?
I had two cousins who planned their own deaths in such a way that they could repent their sins and get forgiveness just before they died.
The suicide rate among transgendered and homosexual men is several times the national average. In one survey 51% had actually tried to kill themselves at least once, and the survey speculated that if you included those who actually DID commit suicide, the number would be more like 75-80%.
Most of us were transgendered within 8 weeks after insemination. The degree to which the testosterone was flushed or was missing can be measured by comparing the length of the index finger to the ring finger. Those with lots of testosterone have longer ring fingers. Those who have less testosterone or none, have longer index fingers. This may express itself in behaviors and mannerisms that range from being very passive and gentle, to being transsexual.I'm transgendered; I've been transgendered since I exited the womb, and that is that.
Good for you.I'll deal with my transgenderism just fine, thank you. You're input is not appreciated."
Most human beings struggle with change, whether that change is the loss of a loved one, the loss of a job, the loss of a marriage, or even just moving to a new city. We tend to resist change, to want to hang onto the familiar, to try and fix the past, rather than focus on creating a new future.What I don't get is why the very same girls that oppose a pastor's intervention
have absolutely no problem with a therapist having a final say in whether one is
transgendered or not. In fact, most girls here embrace the idea that all of us need a therapist.
For many who are transgendered, EVERYTHING changes. They may lose their families, their friends, their parents, wives, children, grandparents. They may have to give up ALL of their friends. They may have to give up their jobs. They may have to move to a new city where they can find support. They have to deal with major changes in their bodies. They also have to deal with being perceived as women. Strategies that worked as men don't work as women. They have to learn new social skills.
In addition, there are many procedures that are incredibly painful. Laser, Electrolysis, waxing, and plucking of hair from the face, lips, neck, and chin can be very painful, and even a bit traumatic. And even when it seems like most of the hair is gone, new dark hairs come shooting up, which means going back for more electrolysis or laser and waxing.
There is also always that battle with the testes. To make the female hormones work, the testosterone has to be blocked. All of this can create some significant emotional reactions, mood swings, and just plain old frustration.
For some of us, the reality is that we will never be as beautiful as we would like to be. If you're 6 feet tall, have size 12 feet, and wear 3X clothing, it's going to be very hard, if not impossible to feminize that body. And if I do too well at creating a beautiful look, I am sure to attract lots of attention, including attention I might not want. I might be attractive to some bisexual who is attractive to me, but I might just look like a freak to a bunch of right wing fundamentalist red-necks who want to do a "Matthew Shepard", or worse.
There are also logistical issues. A sex change isn't cheap. If you're struggling to pay your rent, it might not be the best idea in the world to start taking a bunch of expensive hormones, $5,000 to $10,000 worth of electrolysis, not to mention implants, and SRS. And there may be periods where you can't work, where you may need to depend on someone else for financial support, or use savings.
And the hardest thing of all is when the therapist may have to help you face the reality that even if you did all that, you still wouldn't be able to "pass" as a woman, but you couldn't pass as a man either.
Which order of priesthood is trained in how to guide transsexuals through the transition?What the heck is the difference? And before you say to yourself "but, a therapist is trained",
I'll point out that most priests receive similar training.
I know that there are Hindu sects for transsexuals, and they have been castrating men for centuries.
In Muslim countries, castration is a common punishment for being in an area where women don't wear their abayas.
Eunuchs are then given jobs guarding the harems, the family areas, and other places where men are not allowed. But they function as men, not as women.
For almost 7 centuries, gender identity confusion was considered a sign of witchcraft. Women who wanted the power and privileges of men, and men who wanted to be women, were considered to be consorting with the devil, and were usually tortured into confessing not only their own heresy, but also into naming others (usually owners of land that was to be seized and turned over to the church or to a political leader). Then they would be burned at the stake, often gagged so that they couldn't recant in public. Sometimes their tongues were cut out, and then they would be burned.
But now you are telling me that some branch of the priesthood has been charged with helping transgendered people make the transition? I'm very curious indeed.
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