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Thread: Crossdresser Going Into the Army

  1. #26
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    Your plans border on the insane.

    If you can't put your crossdressing on hold for your enlistment, DON'T enlist.

    S

  2. #27
    Junior Member ak88gurl's Avatar
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    Look, I will put it on hold if I have to, but excuse me Stephenie while I ask what your military background is and what's insane about my plans? Can you elaborate and add something to the discussion? Or do you feel that acting disgusted with my "insanity" is simply enough?

  3. #28
    Im not Alicia Sliverstone Clueless's Avatar
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    Watch Out for Code Red

    I don't think you are seeing things 100% rationally. You are joining a very close knit society (not even truly American in a sense, as you forfeit all of your rights to enlist) which views that important part of you as: a weakness, criminal & a mental disease. If you do join, forget about doing anything at all involved with Cding, for the whole time you are in. You life could be at risk if discovered. They just had another Code Red in Afghanistan which had nothing to do with Cding.

    Don't believe everything someone, even friends, tells you about what it's like inside. Each persons experience will differ. You are putting way too much trust in things that are never foolproof. People & friends can turn on you. Laptops & E-Mail accounts can be hacked, etc. All your online postings can be traced back to you if someone has the time, resources & desire. In fact, that will possibly be a modern form of McCarthyism in the near future.

    The only safe way to do anything that I could see, would be doing something off base while on leave. Again, be super careful. Do not keep or bring on base anything like clothes & pics, mail them home to your family. Do not keep or do anything Cding involved at all with your personal computer or cell phone, as you have zero 4th Amendment rights while serving. Even if you live off base or keep a storage locker, figure they can be searched if they wanted to. If you want to E-Mail, do it off hours/on leave at a public library on their computers. Use a drop E-Mail account set up for that purpose only. Even doing that has some small risk to it. It's a small world, you never know who you will run into later & who will remember you. Don't talk about it to anyone either. Loose lips sinks ships. Focus on serving, saving your pay, and getting out alive & intact. Good luck.

  4. #29
    CDing when I can. McKailah's Avatar
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    I am a crossdresser in the Army. I have been in the Army for over 7 years, and I have been crossdressing for over 15 years. There are challenges, but if you can go for a year or so without dressing, you should do fine. The hardest part was not dressing when I was in Iraq for 15 months. Luckily, my wife is supportive, so that helps a lot.

    The internet will not be a factor unless you are living in the barracks, or using the internet at the office. If you are in either of these locations, CID does, in fact, periodically check the traffic to ensure there is no browsing of things like child pornography and the such, but crossdressing is not really looked for.

    As many people know, the Don't Ask Don't Tell policy has ended, so if you are homosexual or bisexual, no one can do anything to you about it. Crossdressing, though, falls under transvesticism under the Uniform Code of Military Justice, or UCMJ. There is no actual law against it, ut there is a regulation that states transvesticism does not meet the Army Standard. No punitive actions can be taken against you for this act, though. The only thing that they could get you for is if you go out dressed as a woman to official events. Yes, you are a soldier 24/7, but MOST commands know that what you do in your spare time is your business. If you shave your entire body, simply tell people you were on a swim team in high school or back home and you have to keep shaving or you break out. It is that simple...or just tell everyone that you hate body hair. If that is good enough for someone like Vin Diesel, it is good enough for everyone else.

    I would say DO NOT check any of your crossdressing sites or emails when you are at work. At home, there is nothing they can say, unless you are doing something illegal, like buying/selling drugs, or child pornography.

    As far as having a friend of yours mail all your stuff...just take it with you. You will not be searched, and you won't have to explain it to anyone. DON'T take anything to Basic or AIT, but when you get to your first duty station...if it is not overseas...take it with you or have the movers pack it up and move it. The moving company cannot disclose anything that is in the box without being extremely general, like clothing, shoes, papers, books, and they are not military. They are civilian workers for a civilian company who is contracted by the Department of Defense. You don't have to worry about anything when you are moving your stuff. Plus, by taking it with you, you are saving all the money of shipping and postage, you know it won't get lost, and you can file claims against it if anything is damaged by the movers. I have had moving companies move my dresses, wigs, heels, underwear, and everything else overseas twice. Once to Korea, and once to Saudi Arabia. If it can make it through Saudi Arabia, who has the strictest customs department in the world, it can make it anywhere. Deployments are different, though. Everything is searched during a deployment. Don't deploy with anything except maybe a bra, a pair of panties, and maybe a single skirt and blouse. You may have free time with no roommates where you can dress in the privacy of your own room or tent. If you don't want word getting out that you have these things, though...don't take them at all...battle buddies will play pranks by moving all your stuff around and will find them.

    With this all being said, by all means, join whichever service you would like. If you have any other additional questions, comments, or concerns, please feel free to look at my profile, and contact me via any of the methods there. If you are contacting me outside of this site, please let me know that you are the crossdresser going into the Army. I have plenty of info and tips, so please don't hesitate to ask.
    "To truly know yourself, you must first learn who you are inside and never try to hide it for a second."

  5. #30
    Senior Member robyn1114's Avatar
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    Trust me if you're CAREFUL you can serve and still enjoy some of your feminine side. I just finished 20yrs acitive duty Air Force.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  6. #31
    New Member TVKellyNY's Avatar
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    AK, just because someone didn't serve doesn't mean they can't have a valid point. I think everyone fully understands how well compartmental you plan to keep things. On paper, it sounds pretty well thought out and should work. But then you have real life. Using your laptop off base, not connected to ANY government network should be OK. But your laptop would be on base when you're not using it, correct? If it's there, it can be looked into. Also, take into account crowd mentality. Each guy in your unit, alone, might be OK with it if they found out. But once someone else knows, now they have to distance themselves from it, and that lone figure starts to become a group. They all egg each other on. Knowledge is power, and power can be corrupted. You would be dependent on someone else knowing about you. If there was a falling out between you, or anyone you met at any outside club, they would have some power over you. Hopefully nothing like that would happen, but are you willing to hand over that much potential power of yourself to someone else? No one can answer for you, only you can. It does truly suck that the 2 can't be mixed, but that's life. Along with others that have stated it, I hope you really do think this over long and hard, and all the possible outcomes. I wish you well on your journey, whichever path you do decide to take. You have much more guts than I.

  7. #32
    New Member Sarah_sarahcd's Avatar
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    I apologize for a response that really has nothing to contribute but I find this incredibly interesting. As someone who has followed this issue via NPR and the web, I have been waiting for this to present itself in a space that I frequent (although recently I just 'officially' joined the forum... yes a lurker). Having known some military MEN (haughty and rather men's men) who were a bit homophobic and a few who were lovers of TGs (sexy men I might add ) I just find this incredibly interesting because the military (albeit regimented and with a lot of protocol), embodies people who are of all ilks. This of course does not mean that the official p.o.v. is that way and I of course understand that. I guess I just want you all to know that this is an interesting, relevant, modern question that is incredibly relevant to this issue. I apologize for not having anything to contribute but my enthusiasm for the topic.

    Kisses,
    Sarah

    oh, PS: thank you to those who have served and those who are enlisted. May God bless you for your service and sacrifice. (I support the troop and perhaps not the policy)

  8. #33
    Junior Member TeaganNataliaAcheson's Avatar
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    I served four years in the Army National Guard, and my time is not fully up. Although I am being discharged for being transexual, I am only being discharged upon my own request. For me because I am living in a fairly conservative area and live full time as female, I cannot continue to live in the area as I have exausted and been excluded from most employment opportunities. Now as far as regulations go I should be removed from duty, but my chain of command as it turns out valued me as a soldier enough to try and keep me in.

    There are some things to look out for though.
    Crossdressing is against regulations and is deemed "conduct unbecoming." For doing so you can be discharged less than honorably.
    Watch out for being to open about it. I was foolish. My whole unit knows now. I got lucky because people already liked me. And it didn't affect me much. Also some of the stigmas about crossdressing verses haveing diagnosable GID may differ. Though I am not sure about that either.
    Also I would personally advise against joining active duty as you never know who you will run into off duty. Even as national guard, I have run into other soldiers out and about. And only one or two of them that I know live in my city.
    I also would refrain from using military systems to contact other crossdressers about crossdressing. You never know who is watching. Before I came out to my commander, he already knew I was transexual because he had found a video of me online. So even using civilian systems can be risky.

    I have never been careful and it has cost me a deployment which would have provided my transition in full.

    I hope this has helped.
    Bag of Chips looking for her "All That."

    "I'm selfish, impatient and a little insecure. I make mistakes, I am out of control and at times hard to handle. But if you can't handle me at my worst, then you sure as hell don't deserve me at my best."

  9. #34
    Junior Member ak88gurl's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your responses.

    @Sarah: Expression of enthusiasm and interest for the subject is fine too, maybe even helps get more discussion. I just don't want to look at another 2007 Democracy Now video about going into Iran (not even going to begin to discuss that on here) or anything similar as an argument for why I shouldn't go in the military.

    @Teagan: I'm so sorry to hear about the deployment and being found out but I'm glad to hear that your CoC still valued you some as a soldier. I would assume that means they're not giving you a dishonorable discharge but maybe a medical or something.

    @Kelly: I appreciate your concern and don't totally mind people who haven't served giving input. But if all someone can tell me is I'm "insane," or oil wars blah blah, the war is horrible etc. everyone is entitled to their opinion but those things don't contribute anything to the actual conversation I'm trying to have. Not interested in how anyone feels about our involvement in any war or personal opinions of my mental state, but Kelly, your post is relevant and I do want to be careful about trusting people. As far as my "openness" I told a few family members one at a time and people from my college fraternity one at a time, who are not only like family but unlike many in the military are all pretty open, and also discrete and intelligent people (openness be damned, I don't tell anyone if I have even a suspicion they might open their mouths about it and let it slip). Few people mentioned things like getting a security clearance with a crossdressing background, but I actually already have the secret security clearance and I don't have an out in the open crossdressing background (just a circle of friends who know). I wasn't sure however how much they could monitor my internet usage on my laptop if I'm living on base, but was trying to find out about that and now having been told I'll simply take anything CDing related to internet usage off base and not on military networks.

    @McKailah: Awesome response. I'd imagine having a supportive wife and living off base probably helps a lot with this. I'm single so, no such luck for me unfortunately. Also, going in as an E4 (got my bachelors) I'll probably be living in the barracks a while, which was why my plans was to have the stuff mailed, and not to me but to someone supportive I'd eventually find living well off base (like someone from a TG support group or something) if I'm at a station long enough to worry about it. Also, taking stuff on a deployment is definitely not something I'm going to try. At one point in my life when I was trying to "quit" I went two and half years without dressing. It's not a period I would I would like to go for now if I can help it, but if I need to I feel confident that I can. I'll handle the year long deployments fine, especially as I'll be busy doing the military stuff, which may suck at times but is something I will embrace because it's like a part of me as well. I've actually done periods of military training of a couple weeks while I was in ROTC of up to 4 weeks, much shorter than any OSUT but what I can say about it is I couldn't get enough training and enjoyed it and/or was challenged enough that I didn't really think about CDing.

  10. #35
    CDing when I can. McKailah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TVKellyNY View Post
    AK, just because someone didn't serve doesn't mean they can't have a valid point. I think everyone fully understands how well compartmental you plan to keep things. On paper, it sounds pretty well thought out and should work. But then you have real life. Using your laptop off base, not connected to ANY government network should be OK. But your laptop would be on base when you're not using it, correct? If it's there, it can be looked into. Also, take into account crowd mentality. Each guy in your unit, alone, might be OK with it if they found out. But once someone else knows, now they have to distance themselves from it, and that lone figure starts to become a group. They all egg each other on. Knowledge is power, and power can be corrupted. You would be dependent on someone else knowing about you. If there was a falling out between you, or anyone you met at any outside club, they would have some power over you. Hopefully nothing like that would happen, but are you willing to hand over that much potential power of yourself to someone else? No one can answer for you, only you can. It does truly suck that the 2 can't be mixed, but that's life. Along with others that have stated it, I hope you really do think this over long and hard, and all the possible outcomes. I wish you well on your journey, whichever path you do decide to take. You have much more guts than I.
    TVKellyNY,

    Actually, those who haven't served, or who know not how the Military works, should not offer advice on how to do things on or off post regarding this issue. People who serve still have their rights. Illegal search and seizure still apply, so nothing is going to be searched or looked into unless you are going on a deployment. When you are entering the gates at a post, if you have a military ID, you just go through. The guards look at your ID, look to make sure there aren't any other people in your vehicle (by looking through the window) and send you on your way. I don't know what the big deal is with the internet situation either. As long as you aren't using the government network, which is ONLY located in your office, you are good. The only things you have to make sure you don't view on post is child pornography and other illegal stuff like that. A laptop cannot be looked into just because it is on post. CID has to have reasonable evidence to seize your computer and look into it. They can monitor traffic, but they are only looking for illegal activity. They could care less about anything else.

    I have been outed through Facebook to my Commander. It was a few weeks ago. It was initially embarrassing, but legally, there is nothing they can do about it. The only way you will get into trouble in the military for crossdressing is if your roommate finds out, asks you not to do it around him, and you do it anyway, OR if you attend an official function dressed up.

    Other than that...join, and have fun being yourself.
    "To truly know yourself, you must first learn who you are inside and never try to hide it for a second."

  11. #36
    Silver Member Jonianne's Avatar
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    I enjoyed my service time during the 70's, but had to lie about being a cd'er when I first enlisted. I think the question was "do you wear womens cloths" or something to that effect. I think the consensus is that the military is not as uniform as we always think it is and that you may never be found out or you may be found out and the local command may not care or you may be found out and they will care, worse case senario.

    With all your best laid plans, it's still going to be a risk. If you get a secret clearance, the FBI will be around asking some of your family and friends about you. They may or may not ask about cd'ing specificly, but who knows what your friends may volunteer. The odds are you will be OK, but it's up to you to take that risk.

    I think if I were to do it over again, I might would serve as a DoD civilian employee instead. That way you can still serve your country without all the rigamoroles of military life, get better pay and still enjoy the benifits of seeing the world on the governments dime.
    Joni

    "Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free" Bob Dylan

  12. #37
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    I didn't catch what MOS you are going in for, but let me offer some insight from what I know. I spent a little over 4 years as an enlisted Infantryman, went to OCS and became a Signal Corps officer. I didn't buy my first skirt until I was in OCS, but I did have a lot of TS/TG pictures on my computer. One day my roomate let someone else use my computer and my stash was found. Other than a whole lot of teasing - seemed that the entire company knew about it, nothing was said - and I was selected for OCS by the commanding general of the division at the recommendation of all my commanders from the brigade on down. Infantrymen are known for having odd fetishes anyway, so I just blended in. Depending on where you go, your chances of being able to dress in your home are slim - most likely you'll live in the barracks. That said, the new barracks tend to have separate private bedrooms with a shared bathroom/kitchen area. You're biggest problem will be the unannounced room inspection or health and welfare inspection. You might be better off storing your clothes in your vehicle. Rarely will there be a vehicle inspection - something really bad has to happen like a lost sensitive item (think rifle, night vision device) or someone has a gun or drugs in their room. I never had a vehicle search when I was enlisted and had 2 as an officer. When you go through the gate, they generally don't open bags - never have had them ask to see inside one of mine. As far as the computer network, most of what people have posted is wrong. CID doesn't monitor any network. The Army is behind a firewall and web filters. If you try to go to a site it doesn't like while at work, it won't let you. Sometimes they haven't found all the sites; took them 3 months to lock out BME. Your best bet is to keep it professional at work. Your barracks internet is paid for by you through a commercial provider. There are no filters and no one is sniffing it, other than maybe the ISP. You can do anything that is legal on that network. The same basic rules apply while deployed. The work network is more heavily filtered, depending on who runs it, but this is mostly for bandwidth reasons. I know of a guy who was googling all sorts of porn sites - he had an open line, which should tell you how high up he was. When found out, all that happened to him was getting fired and sent to a new job. Not the greatest thing for a career - officers getting fired generally means that your not getting promoted anytime soon. The commercial network that you pay for is yours to do with what you will, subject to the rules of the ISP and General Order 1A, which prohibits porn anyway. I have been involved in investigations of soldiers for extremist activity and child porn on their personal laptops. No one has ever come to me and asked me to look for evidence of crossdressing, or anything else because there's nothing they can do about it. Trust me, the 1SG is really who you want to be most concerned about, and they generally have more than enough to keep them busy with real problem soldiers. That said, don't give them a reason to examine you from a bad perspective - good advice for CDers and everyone else. As long as you have thick skin, you'll be fine.

    As far as a security clearance, I have a Top Secret/Secure Compartmentalized Information (TS/SCI). The only questions the investigator asks are very general - have you any knowledge of dishonest acts - theft, etc; do you know of any reason why this person shouldn't have a clearance; does this person drink a lot? They are looking for issues that would cause concern for your level of responsibility. Being enlisted, your chances of requiring a TS/SCI are low unless you go into intelligence. Later, if you go into special forces, civil affairs, or psychological operations, then you'll need one. To get a Secret clearance, they simply do a records check. If you haven't been arrested and don't have a lot of speeding tickets, you'll have no issues.

    The Army can be a great life. It's what you make of it. Do your job to the best of your ability, don't create headaches for your superiors, know your place (very important), and finally, don't act high and mighty because of a college degree. Very few people will be impressed - remember, 2LTs have them as well. I walked into my company as a SPC and was chipping tile from under the urinal on my second day. Seize the opportunities that get presented. Once I finish vet school, my plan is to go back in. One day you may walk into a clinic and meet a veterinarian who has pierced ears, likes to wear skirts and Mary Janes, and has a Y chromosome.

  13. #38
    Junior Member ak88gurl's Avatar
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    Thanks Angie. Really informative response there. I'm still pretty much decided for the moment that I won't even have clothing on base, the internet monitoring was what I was most concerned about. I have to go in active at needs of the army, so the way things are right now, even with the very high ASVAB scores I have, I might not get the greatest MOS, but I have been interested actually in special operations having known a few people in SF, CA, and Psyop. What I really want more than anything is to get into SIGINT (either be a 35N or 35P) and try and eventually get assigned to a SOT-A. Before that I was seriously considering 18X, but as someone with a very analytical mindset I feel I would be really good at something like SIGINT.

    Short of those, it all depends what's available, but even with the limits to choices that I'll have the way things are I'm confident I'll find something that works alright by me. I'm not going to go in thinking I'm anything special cause of the bachelors degree either.

  14. #39
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    Be aware of the times you are dressed in the privacy of your own room (BOQ) Bachelor Officer Quarters, and someone calls you with an emergency in your unit that you need to take care of immediately. Running out the door with make up on. try explaining. As it has been stated the military owns you 24/7. Exception is when on leave (subject to military needs). Becareful. Good Luck.
    Diane Elizabeth

  15. #40
    Member lavistaa62's Avatar
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    I think you'll find plenty of kindred souls in intel- just be sure it's they would are the first to reveal and you know them and their associates very, very, very well. Don't dress anywhere near post and never, ever even consider it when you are deployed. Stateside it's not a big deal so long as you aren't are on post/base and don't get stopped, etc. On the other hand, this will be one of those things that you are stressed over. I'm guessing you're also somewhat open minded in your other attitudes and pursuits- be prepared for a shock... I was both enlisted and commissioned and astounded how attitudes of bigotry, prejudice and intolerance have crept back into the military since 9/11. It's not the same was it was and not in a good way so please, don't do anything with CD until you are through secondary training and at your first assignment and never when deployed. Other than that- the military is a great career so long as you understand the system enjoy it. Do try to get your masters, etc while in. Even though it's difficult with the time and other constraints, being ready for transition out is important at all times especially during reductions and if you CD.

  16. #41
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    High ASVAB, bachelors degree and the recruiter is telling you needs of the Army - might want to see if you can find another recruiter. Actually, when you get to MEPS, talk to the career counselor. Before deciding on a job other than 11B, 19K, 19D, or 13B - i.e. a combat arms position, make sure you talk to someone in that position who has no vested interest in getting you into the Army. We had a really smart guy who would have made a great 13F - forward observer for artillery, but the recruiter described the 13D job in such a way that it sounded the same. In reality, the 13D sits behind a computer or plays with maps. If you have any questions, I have intimate knowledge of the following MOSs in a line unit: 11B, 11C, 92Y, 92G, 13B, 13D, 13F, 13S, 13R, 13W, 25B, 25C, 25S, 25Q, 25L, 25N, 25U, 91W, and 91T. I can tell you the good and bad of both. If I had to choose an enlisted job, it would be 11B or one of the 25 series (Signal). If you like animals and being Hooah isn't for you, the 91T is a great choice.

    Also, as far as having to run out the door to respond to something - it doesn't happen unless you are deployed. I agree that I probably wouldn't dress around any installation. I don't even wear earrings within a few miles of the base, nor in areas of heavy military people.

  17. #42
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    Dear ak88,

    I did serve many years ago.

    I did NOT call you insane. I said that what you are planning BORDERS on the insane. You are planning to keep your crossdressing a secret from the military. Good luck with that.

    I stand by what I said. If you CANNOT put your crossdressing on hold, stay out of the military.

    That's a really simple straightforward bit of advice. Heed it or not. It's up to you. I assumed that you were asking for other people's opinions when you brought your question here. I gave you mine.

    S

  18. #43
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that a force that "fights for freedom" actually asks applicants if they cross dress. What the hell is that all about?

    DADT repeal should also cover CDs. Why you ask? Because much of the bigotry and hatred we face IS based on homophobia. It is usually a homophobic reaction that people get when they encounter those of our ilk. What is my mom's thought when she sees my heels after snooping through my closet without my knowledge? "Why are you dressing like a woman? Are you trying to attract men?"

    It is something that stems from the hatred of Gays. I find it very very ironic how the United States Military forces excercise those behaviors that they supposedly fighting against in other people's countries.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
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  19. #44
    Member Kathy Smith's Avatar
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    Sorry Alexis, I have to agree with Stephanie S. I've never had anything to do with the military, I don't even live in the same country as you, but even I can see that making a legal declaration that you don't CD, when you have been doing so for some time (and have every intention of continuing to do so), is a potential recipe for disaster. If your military are anything like ours then you could very quickly find out just how unforgiving they can be about blatant lies like that.

    Have a good think about it. Make your mind up.
    Then think about it some more, including the bad bits (that you don't want to think about / don't believe can happen) this time.
    Then make your choice: Crossdressing OR enlisting.
    **-* Kath *-**
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  20. #45
    1st & 4th makeover pics Misti's Avatar
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    Lightbulb To Whom It May Concern (Some caring advice: Please, take or leave it? i

    Quote Originally Posted by ak88gurl View Post
    So what if I go use the internet on my laptop somewhere off base? Are they still going to have a way of finding all the sites I went to?
    To Whom It May Concern (Some very caring personal advice: Please feel you make take it, or leave it?)

    I feel obligated to a "sister" to give you fair warning, AK88: "You have been advised, very, very wisely by everyone here, so far, but have seen fit to 'do it your way regardless of the potentially 'dire' future consequences starring you in the face for your DLO (military talk for Desired Learning Outcome)?' “ For that I wish you all the luck in the world, because you are certainly going to need it, young lady, if you persist in this wish to CD while on active duty in the service of your country (BTW I salute you and applaud that very action enthusiastically, as I have done exactly the same as a combat pilot in Viet Nam, having served honorably and with distinction). My qualification here? My own rule was: “Never do anything ‘irresponsibly that can result in dire consequences to one’s well-being’; and that means, doing “IT” within one (1) hour of your home base.” For me that meant 500 miles (@500 MPH, you see? And, I am still batting 1.000 to this day. Hoorah!).

    FYI I have one more qualifying credential to present to you in order to make my point to you "Perfectly Clear!” I also have an extensive background in security, “privacy,” and all related matters thereto. and you are totally "naive" in such matters, so beware lest the snake bite? For starters, I would advise you to simply start with a Google Search: "NSA Whistleblowers Fort Gordon, GA". Afterwards, then proceed with extreme caution as you are about to embark on what I personally feel is a suicidal mission, dear one, as you will be judged with "Extreme Prejudice Once in the Breach!" Just remember, "You cannot do an ALT|CTRL|DEL, (computereze: three-finger salute) simply to re-start the game anew where you are about to go? Your very future depends purely on your choices here and now. So act accordingly. Period.

    There are tons more, of course, but here's just a "couple of responses off the top" (13,700 Results in 0.21 seconds) you'll get from that Google search, et al.:

    In an ABC News broadcast (09/09/09), NSA's Ears Wide Open Brian Ross reveals what the government heard on wiretaps. (http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex?id=6000186)

    New NSA Whistleblowers Say NSA Spied on US Service Members and Aid Workers by Hugh D'Andrade, October 10, 2008 Electronic Frontier Foundation (https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2008/1...whistleblowers)

    Finally, Whistleblowers Report from the Inside on the NSA Program by Shayana Kadidal, Senior managing attorney at the Center for Constitutional Rights, October 9, 2008 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/shayan..._b_133457.html)

    Including, and, as mentioned earlier, Bradley Manning had and his alter-ego 'Breanna': Investigators reveal strange mind of soldier behind Wikileaks scandal. Read more: (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1hfzevFM3)

    And, regardless of how (any)one feels about "Privacy, etc.", "The Beat Goes On, and On, and On, and..." Always remember this: “Big Brother is indeed watching… You, and You, and You, and…” Best of Luck, always,

    L&R
    M.
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  21. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    Frankly I find it absolutely disgusting that a force that "fights for freedom" actually asks applicants if they cross dress. What the hell is that all about?
    I find it disgusting that someone would spread lies. Never have I, nor any other soldier I know been asked about cross dressing at enlistment. I have a 50-something page application for the Army Medical Department and there is no mention of cross dressing. They want to know if you have loyalties outside of the US, have even been arrested, or have ever plotted to over throw the US government by violent means. Perhaps you are projecting your issues with your mother upon the US Army. If you would read my rather lengthy post above, you will find that I had several items that one wouldn't expect to find in the closet of an Infantryman, and definitely some pictures that might cause the uninformed to think I was gay on my computer, but nothing was illegal. The old phrase was "Statement, act, or marriage" as far as determining homosexuality. You could be as gay as you wanted to be, but you could not tell anyone, have homosexual intercourse, or marry or attempt to marry someone of the same sex. If none of those conditions were met, no one could touch you, we didn't care. Obviously, you've been listening to too much anti-military propaganda, rather than talking to the actual people who live it daily. You're stuck in 1999.

  22. #47
    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    Ok, am I the only one that can ask the obvious before this kid puts her/him self in potential harms way? Alexis, what does your Gender Therapist say about you pursuing active duty? Reading your posts here, you seem to have already made up your mind that you are going to do this while you are going to pursue crossdressing in your spare time at home, and when and where you can you will use the internet to check in on TG websites to keep up on the community and your friends. You also seem to have all the answers for yourself, as you have posted a comeback to every single person here that has posted anything that advises you against this. So here...I will refer back to my previous question, and ad to it ARE YOU INSANE?????

    You really need to seek a professional 3rd party. It's clear to me here, just through reading your posts, that your ability to keep this a secret will not be very well put. Let me fill you in on something here. I live full time, and every day I come across someone I know out of the corner of my eye. In the back of my head every where I go is, when will someone decide to take there bad day out on me? Here is another reality. Although a majority of military members are good loving people that are just trying to do there duty, there is a faction represented by the same percentage as civilian population that are not. I think we could all agree there is a "type" that is drawn to military or law enforcement that are inclined to not be very trans friendly. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the TDOR list from last year. When people are outed, people die. Some people are outed despite taking extreme measures not to be.

    Your a kid...put your real thinking cap on here. Get a third party therapist involved, and really do a thorough self evaluation before you make a commitment that could end up damaging you for life.
    Life inside the music box ain't easy
    The malots hit the gears are always turning
    And everyone inside the mechanism
    Is yearning
    To get out

    http://sandra-absent.blogspot.com

  23. #48
    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    Ok, am I the only one that can ask the obvious before this kid puts her/him self in potential harms way? Alexis, what does your Gender Therapist say about you pursuing active duty? Reading your posts here, you seem to have already made up your mind that you are going to do this while you are going to pursue crossdressing in your spare time at home, and when and where you can you will use the internet to check in on TG websites to keep up on the community and your friends. You also seem to have all the answers for yourself, as you have posted a comeback to every single person here that has posted anything that advises you against this. So here...I will refer back to my previous question, and ad to it ARE YOU INSANE?????

    You really need to seek a professional 3rd party. It's clear to me here, just through reading your posts, that your ability to keep this a secret will not be very well put. Let me fill you in on something here. I live full time, and every day I come across someone I know out of the corner of my eye. In the back of my head every where I go is, when will someone decide to take their bad day out on me? Here is another reality. Although a majority of military members are good loving people that are just trying to do there duty, there is a faction represented by the same percentage as civilian population that are not. In the military these types of people have a on documented license to act out their bigotries. I think we could all agree there is a "type" that is drawn to military or law enforcement that are inclined to not be very trans friendly. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE read the TDOR list from last year. When people are outed, people die. Some people are outed despite taking extreme measures not to be.

    Your a kid...put your real thinking cap on here. Get a third party therapist involved, and really do a thorough self evaluation before you make a commitment that could end up damaging you for life.
    Last edited by SandraAbsent; 12-26-2011 at 07:01 PM.
    Life inside the music box ain't easy
    The malots hit the gears are always turning
    And everyone inside the mechanism
    Is yearning
    To get out

    http://sandra-absent.blogspot.com

  24. #49
    Gold Member TxKimberly's Avatar
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    OK, so let's just take a chill pill and think on it for a second.
    I am astounded by some of the awesome advice and information that was offered.

    TG's are NOT covered under the new change in regs regarding homosexuals being allowed to serve now. I doubt that your average soldier realizes that though. The vast majority of people lump us all together LGBT, and right or wrong, most who might stumble on to you are going to think "Oh he's gay and that's allowed now."
    Security clearance - that does have the potential to be a significant problem for you. When I was in the Army and worked on a nuclear missile with a top secret clearance, it was before the internet became a household thing. I have NO idea what they might be able to discover about you through the internet. For example, I have no idea if they have some way to find your account here if you dont volunteer the information to them. Honestly I doubt very much that they can, at least not without a great deal of effort that I find it hard to imagine them going through without a compelling reason to do so. I also have the worry in the back of my head as to what some of your former ROTC peers might say if and when they are interviewed as part of a security clearance background investigation. Are they going to feel obligated to share that information with the investigator? Are some of them active duty now, and might they not feel compelled by their own ethics and oath to tell this to an investigator?
    A couple of people have told you to only share this with your most trusted friends and I'd like to respectfully disagree with that advice. Tell freaking NO ONE, not under any circumstances, and not for any freaking reason. TELL NO ONE who is in any way, shape, or form associated with your career in the Army about this. EVER.
    Would they actually prosecute you if they caught you later? I doubt it, because they really don't like that kind of publicity. To the best of my knowledge, they have never prosecuted anyone for this, though I'd bet quite a few have been quietly separated from the service for it. It wouldn't surprise me if some of those that were separated were threatened with legal action if they tried to fight the separation, but I can't recall ever hearing of anyone that was actually prosecuted for being gay or TG. So - thrown out of the Army - entirely possible. Sent to prison - highly unlikely.
    Can you get away with going out to "friendly" clubs while on active duty - you betcha. I have shaken the hand of quite a few that came down to Austin from Ft Hood on weekends.
    Internet usage and privacy - I should imagine that anyone using the internet these days knows that any company (this of course includes the US Military) can monitor your internet usage while using either their computers or their network. What you do from your own PC at home should be reasonably private though. Of course no one is safe if Uncle Sam has a really good reason to start looking in to your activities, but your average soldier does not really need to worry about Uncle Sam monitoring their internet activities while on their personal PC and using their own service provider.

    Can you get away with it? Probably, IF you keep your mouth shut and dont tell anyone and IF your old ROTC peers don't volunteer the info should they be interviewed as part of a background investigation for a clearance.
    Can you get caught? Sure! If your dumb enough to use their PC's and networks to visit sites like this, or to send and receive emails, or if you're stupid enough to let someone know about this or catch you cross dressing. I'd still think that the worst case scenario would just have you separated from the service and right back to where you are now, so what is the real risk?

    I know it's all kind of a mixed message, so where does this leave you? Damned if I know! As far as I can tell it is now up to you to decide if you want a career, or at least a term in the military bad enough to risk it. Personally I've never been prouder of anything that I have done in my life than of my Army service.

  25. #50
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Angie CD, i was able to find the post. yes I misread. It is IF they ask you that question. I still find it odd that you cannot excersise an activity that for all intents and purposes harms no one in a force that protects us from other forces that would kill people like us.


    Quote Originally Posted by Michelle.M View Post
    I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

    1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

    2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

    3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

    Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
    Tree beard. Lord of the Rings, The Two Towers.

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