Crossdresser Going Into the Army

[ak88gurl]

Hey everyone, my name's Alexis, and I've wanted to go in the Army my whole life pretty much, but also been a crossdresser my whole life and one thing I got a say, I think I've had the good fortune to actually embrace and accept this part of me during college, before going in the Army, because I know what I'm going to do with it.

Both my parents, my older sister, and my whole fraternity from college know about it, and I've go out to LGBT bars and other places I consider safe. When I started college I was trying to deny this part of me, but over the last few years I've found ways to safely embrace it even while I was in ROTC.

Anyway, I'm posting partly because I know I'll have challenges as a crossdresser and would love some insights, but don't want to stop being myself. Both the crossdressing and my desire to serve are immense parts of me.

I plan to put my safety above all else going in the Army, and I expect I'll enjoy my time in the Army, even if I don't end up staying long for reasons related to CDing or them trying to make cuts.

So anyway, I wanted to know what people think of my plans....

Right now I still hang around a predominantly lesbian LGBT bar while dressed up and occasionally go shopping carefully in some places. For me just doing this on occasion is enough, and I've gone extended periods without it (don't think I'll have an urge to buy a burqa over in Kabul), but I don't want to run from me either completely and so my plan was to use the internet to get in touch with supportive people in cities relatively close to my duty station (probably at least 30 minutes away though) when I get to one, and have a fraternity brother of mine who I trust mail all my things (clothes, shoes, wig, etc.) for me to someone who I can safely go out with occasionally as Alexis.

I'm curious if anyone would have any critiques or suggestions to add to these plans. I'm pretty sure I won't have too much trouble keeping this from the Army, but then I've still yet to start Basic. Also, another additional question, I am wondering about shaving these days in the military. One of my CD friends who's in says it's not a big deal, people might look at you a little weird or even tease, but it doesn't go too far or prevent advancing.

I'm going to have a lot of other questions actually related to this, but I don't want to write a whole book just yet, lol

[Beverley Sims]

Be VERY CAREFUL.
However innocent your intentions may be.
I have been challenged a few times photographing trains at the pentagon.
EVEN after getting permission. (It is a tastefully decorated subway station in Washington DC.)
Remember all communications are monitored in some way out of military establishments.
Keywords like sex, bombs, drugs, and rock and roll are amongst the more interesting they look at.
Don't go racing around in burkahs or even wear panties.
Whilst at home you may get a slap on the wrist, but over there you may be better off taking a drug overdose.
Even in a green zone these are extremely risky undertakings.
Remember always look over your shoulder and "BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU"
Even this site is not a place to vent your plans, people put 2 + 2 together and it is not hard to work out the puzzle.
More---
Check around before joining as the military have changed their outlook towards Gays and I assume people like us.
It is more favorable now. I wish you every success in the military, I kept to myself and did not go around patting other soldiers on the bum as it meant a dis honourable discharge then.

[ak88gurl]

I mean, I'm not planning on even getting online about it while out on deployment. Are they really going to monitor my internet usage from my laptop that much? When I'm in the privacy of my room back in the States will I be unsafe just posting on forums and sending emails about it?

[Debglam]

I mean, I'm not planning on even getting online about it while out on deployment. Are they really going to monitor my internet usage from my laptop that much? When I'm in the privacy of my room back in the States will I be unsafe just posting on forums and sending emails about it?

It all depends how you would be accessing the internet. If it is on a government computer or if you are accessing through a government network, then you have no expectation of privacy.

[miaTX86]

Even though it is probably more accepted now than it has been in the past, I would believe getting a TS SCI clearance would be more difficult with a cross-dressing background. Having clearance issues could put a real damper on a career.

[Sarah_sarahcd]

I apologize for a response that really has nothing to contribute but I find this incredibly interesting. As someone who has followed this issue via NPR and the web, I have been waiting for this to present itself in a space that I frequent (although recently I just 'officially' joined the forum... yes a lurker). Having known some military MEN (haughty and rather men's men) who were a bit homophobic and a few who were lovers of TGs (sexy men I might add ) I just find this incredibly interesting because the military (albeit regimented and with a lot of protocol), embodies people who are of all ilks. This of course does not mean that the official p.o.v. is that way and I of course understand that. I guess I just want you all to know that this is an interesting, relevant, modern question that is incredibly relevant to this issue. I apologize for not having anything to contribute but my enthusiasm for the topic.

Kisses,
Sarah

oh, PS: thank you to those who have served and those who are enlisted. May God bless you for your service and sacrifice. (I support the troop and perhaps not the policy)

[Stephanie-L]

You did not say how you would be going in. You mentioned college and ROTC but then talk of Basic, so Officer or Enlisted? If Officer, expect to have no privacy or chance to dress even if not deployed for at least the first year, you will probably be sharing quarters with other guys. If enlisted do not even expect to see much of the civilian world for at least six months, then do not be surprised if your life is closely controled for quite a while, possibly years, usually until you make at least E3 or better. As was noted, if you use a government computer or network, you have no privacy. If you live on base your quarters are subject to inspection at any time, so no place to hide anything. If you are in a position that requires a security clearance there is a very strong possibilty that during the investigation for this you will be discovered. I have heard of CDs with Top Secret clearances, but the CDing was only discovered well after the original clearance was granted, back in pre-internet days. Usually the problem is if CDing can be used as a blackmail tool against you. Even a private computer in quarters on base may be subject to search, so consider carefully. With the recent Wikileaks thing with the person blaming GID, I do not see the military becoming any easier on CD/TG/TS folks anytime soon. I also am not trying to dissuade you, I loved the time I spent in uniform, just giving you info. Good Luck...........Stephanie

[TVKellyNY]

AK, just because someone didn't serve doesn't mean they can't have a valid point. I think everyone fully understands how well compartmental you plan to keep things. On paper, it sounds pretty well thought out and should work. But then you have real life. Using your laptop off base, not connected to ANY government network should be OK. But your laptop would be on base when you're not using it, correct? If it's there, it can be looked into. Also, take into account crowd mentality. Each guy in your unit, alone, might be OK with it if they found out. But once someone else knows, now they have to distance themselves from it, and that lone figure starts to become a group. They all egg each other on. Knowledge is power, and power can be corrupted. You would be dependent on someone else knowing about you. If there was a falling out between you, or anyone you met at any outside club, they would have some power over you. Hopefully nothing like that would happen, but are you willing to hand over that much potential power of yourself to someone else? No one can answer for you, only you can. It does truly suck that the 2 can't be mixed, but that's life. Along with others that have stated it, I hope you really do think this over long and hard, and all the possible outcomes. I wish you well on your journey, whichever path you do decide to take. You have much more guts than I.

[McKailah]

AK, just because someone didn't serve doesn't mean they can't have a valid point. I think everyone fully understands how well compartmental you plan to keep things. On paper, it sounds pretty well thought out and should work. But then you have real life. Using your laptop off base, not connected to ANY government network should be OK. But your laptop would be on base when you're not using it, correct? If it's there, it can be looked into. Also, take into account crowd mentality. Each guy in your unit, alone, might be OK with it if they found out. But once someone else knows, now they have to distance themselves from it, and that lone figure starts to become a group. They all egg each other on. Knowledge is power, and power can be corrupted. You would be dependent on someone else knowing about you. If there was a falling out between you, or anyone you met at any outside club, they would have some power over you. Hopefully nothing like that would happen, but are you willing to hand over that much potential power of yourself to someone else? No one can answer for you, only you can. It does truly suck that the 2 can't be mixed, but that's life. Along with others that have stated it, I hope you really do think this over long and hard, and all the possible outcomes. I wish you well on your journey, whichever path you do decide to take. You have much more guts than I.

TVKellyNY,

Actually, those who haven't served, or who know not how the Military works, should not offer advice on how to do things on or off post regarding this issue. People who serve still have their rights. Illegal search and seizure still apply, so nothing is going to be searched or looked into unless you are going on a deployment. When you are entering the gates at a post, if you have a military ID, you just go through. The guards look at your ID, look to make sure there aren't any other people in your vehicle (by looking through the window) and send you on your way. I don't know what the big deal is with the internet situation either. As long as you aren't using the government network, which is ONLY located in your office, you are good. The only things you have to make sure you don't view on post is child pornography and other illegal stuff like that. A laptop cannot be looked into just because it is on post. CID has to have reasonable evidence to seize your computer and look into it. They can monitor traffic, but they are only looking for illegal activity. They could care less about anything else.

I have been outed through Facebook to my Commander. It was a few weeks ago. It was initially embarrassing, but legally, there is nothing they can do about it. The only way you will get into trouble in the military for crossdressing is if your roommate finds out, asks you not to do it around him, and you do it anyway, OR if you attend an official function dressed up.

Other than that...join, and have fun being yourself.

[Crysten]

Want a really good pointer? Prove to everyone that matters that you are an exceptional soldier
... a soldier that knows his stuff, takes care of business, and is an assett to the army. That way if anything does come up youll have all the right people in your corner. Remember, with very few exceptions you can pretty much get a waiver for anything ... And i dressed continuously my entire 20+ year career ...

[Loni]

I mean, I'm not planning on even getting online about it while out on deployment. Are they really going to monitor my internet usage from my laptop that much? When I'm in the privacy of my room back in the States will I be unsafe just posting on forums and sending emails about it?

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

[KiwiHeather]

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

Excellent point. I was always told it it couldnt be written on a post card and given to everyone of the crew for delivery to the correct recipient then it shouldnt be writen, typed or spoken. Nothing digital ever goes away ever...

[Tracii G]

Your life belongs to the branch of service you join remember that.They are not understanding about TG issues or what you feel for that matter so keep that in mind.
If you join put your CDing aside while you are in there.They will look thru your mail trust me and if your friend mails you CD items they will see them.
I applaud you for joining I really do and I understand your desire to do so.
For your benefit put your other side on hold for the time being.
My drill Sgt said your heart belongs to your Momma your ass belongs to me and Uncle Sam.

[Meg East]

i am not in the milatary...and a life time of thank you's to those who have served....

but every line and key stroke you type on any goverment computer, or net work they have even a finger into is copyed....at all times.

it is big brother you know.

True, if you use your own computer but are on their, base using their network, routers etc. then you are under their rules.

[gretchen_love]

As a fairly new LT who is also a crossdresser, I just want to repeat some of the above mentioned advice. Be careful about your Cding, and be the best soldier you can be. I am a fire support officer in an armor company, and the stupid stuff soldiers do concern my commander and 1SG way much more that a bunch of women's clothes (not to demean our collective weakness lol). Just in the past 3 months we have had two cases of domestic violence, one demotion because a soldier was having inappropriate conversations with a 14 year old girl on facebook, and an "attempted suicide attempt" (aka the soldier didn't like being in the army and took just enough pills to look like suicide but not actually be close to dying). One of my soldiers had a video taken of him in full makeup, and admitting he likes sucking on women's toes. The CO, 1SG, my FSNCO, and myself all saw it, and ya know what? He still got a waiver for early promotion because he is a good soldier and is technically and tactically proficient. He and one other soldier (who took the video lol) got early promotions ahead of their peers. Did his little foray into CDing injure his career? As of right now, no. But who knows the future, maybe that video will come back to haunt him one day.

I guess the main point of my post is that if you keep your head down and do what your LT, PSG, 1SG, and CO ask you to do, you should be fine. And that is my advice to anyone putting on a uniform, CD or not. If you make their life easy, aka not get in trouble, they will leave you alone for the most part. And if you excel at your job, they will probably recognize your achievement.

The fact that you are asking these questions in advance and show that you have an analytical mindset shows me, at least, that you have the ability to far exceed your peers. Most other guys are wondering how much pu$$y they are gonna get on the weekend, not if their shoes are gonna match their bra and purse. Cding doesn't really even enter into how a soldier thinks about another soldier unless it is shoved in his/her face.

To be honest, when I saw the video of my soldier in full makeup, it took me a few minutes to even consider if he was a CD. Soldiers do some much stupid sh*t that it is barely a consideration, even coming form an officer who is a CD!

[Debglam]

Alexis,

I spent 25 years in the Navy and got a lot out of it. I did NOT dress while I was in however. One thing you need to be clearly aware of is that none of this new openess with the repeal of DADT applies to transgender. First, TG is considered an "illness" that you can be separated for. Second, military "justice" is about discipline, not justice per se. The Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ) and the regulations of the individual services have some pretty broad provisions. Being caught crossdressing, caught with female clothing, etc. COULD be considered as a punishable offence under some of these provisions. I don't have my UCMJ in front of me, but the "conduct unbecoming" provisions come to mind.

Again, I'm not trying to discourage you. The military gave me an education, a number of life skills, and actually was how I met my wife, so in a sense they gave me a family too. You just need to go in with eyes wide open. Feel free to PM me if you would like to talks some more.

Debby

[Pythos]

This day and age one REALLY needs to examine their reasoning for joining the military. Many join for what many are FINALLY thinking is the wrong reason and that in financial help in life. I am sorry, I do not understand any one at this time that willfully would join the military. Why do I say this?

Look at what has happened to our fighting men and women after these wars we are in. We ended up losing MORE people in this ten year war (that is LONGER than WWII) than we lost on 9/11, the event that got us into this mess. Those that went for what were the right reasons back after that act of terrorism (that may not have happened had people not been so ho hum when an aircraft gets hijacked, I mean after all, who would have thought of using an aircraft as a missile?.....oh Lets see...Germany, Japan, Italy, The Brits, French...all those countries that had aircraft (though the Germans and Japanese had them be manned, and only the Japanese had truly suicidal weapons). But of course instead of having passengers trained to take down would be Hijackers...ala Air Al, we just are told to just let what happens happen, and the plane be taken off course.

Those men and women joining for the right reason, were abused and mistreated by our government. Yes there are many that will fare just fine, but there are many many more that are messed up for life, and for what? What is it that has been accomplished? The region is still a mess, and will remain such until it is converted into a glass bowl. (Something I sadly feel is an inevitablitly)

I think anyone at this time that is joining the military as it is is not quite thinking right. I know there could be family history and stuff, but you know there are circles of tradition that can stand to be broken. My father got royally screwed over by the Navy, despite getting an honorable discharge. His GI bill was only half paid, and he got NO VA rights.

On top of that, you are acknowledging that you have a characteristic that the military will not like. One that you have been very open about (good for you on that count). In this day and age you don't think that will follow you into military life? Look what is happening with Bradley Manning. What a crappy argument of defense for what he did (however you feel about his actions, what he did has NOTHING to do with him being Trans Gendered)

I hate to bring in this strong of an example, but I would think you wanting to be in the Army would be like an Irish Catholic wanting to join her majesty's armed forces. Not quite foolhardy, but still not very wise.

I for one would not want to be part of an organisation that hates a quality of me that hurts no one, ruins no ones lives, and for the most part should not matter. There is also the whole thing of when you sign your name on the line you become United States Property. I think there is a passage in the Bible that is against such a thing, and it is not a mistranslation like much of the Bible (Deut 22:5, for one) but a clearly stated thing. Such as, you belong to the lord, or something like that.

But that is my honest opinion.

NOTE: Please do not think I do not honor those that have fought this countries wars, most notably the battles of WWII. But I view war as something that needs to go away, and frankly the only reason they happen is because people ALL over the world join those forces that even the founding fathers said should not exist in peace time. The military is VERY wasteful of resources, and is in many ways are harbinger of horrible "traditions". The above statement of "behavior of not becoming an officer" or what have you. For crying out loud, the military exists for one reason and one reason only, to destroy things. Every single thing in the military is in one way or another connected with the destruction of someone else's property or lives.

I wish more people would view war as an outdated, and in many ways, immature way of dealing with conflicts. Osama Bin Laden should have been sniped, as should Sadam Husien. Snipers and spies. Oh yea, that's right we have that stupid law that Ford signed prohibiting the assassination of key figures, I forgot about that bit of wisdom.

When I was growing up I was friends who fought in WWII, and every last one of them wishes that they had not had to do the things they did. They know it was for a good cause, but still many of them were against this country EVER entering another war.

WWII should have been the last of such large scale stupidity.

[KandisTX]

I served in the military BEFORE the DADT "law" existed. When my CDing was "discovered" thanks to a vindictive ex-wife my life became a living hell. I lost my Top Secret clearance, I was investigated by the USAFOSI, and sent to multiple Psychological examinations. In the end, while they could not prove I was mentally unstable and that I was NOT a security threat, I was still forced out of the military under a "Reduction In Force" program.

You cannot be this open with your CDing and think that the military is going to be "okay" with this aspect of your life. Not only will you have to deal with ignorance from some of the older NCO's and Officers, but your fellow recruits will NOT be your best buddies if they find out. Even though the military supposedly "frowns" on things like "Blanket Parties", that kind of "justice" is still being doled out.

[ak88gurl]

Ok.... think I need to be more clear about some things. My parents and older sister know. My fraternity from school knows. A few friends from the LGBT community who I hang out with know. Most people who know me, however, do NOT know about Alexis, and I'm intending to keep it this way. I am still not exactly "out" and have no intention of trying to be while in the military or letting anyone in the military (other than three fraternity brothers I have in the Army who already know) find out about me being a crossdresser. I appreciate the concerns, but while I've accepted myself as a crossdresser, I did not mean to imply that I'm going to be going after a security clearance with a "crossdressing background."

I've graduated college with a bachelors degree but did not stay in ROTC to the end to commission, so I'm going in as an E4 Specialist. I already understood about government computers and networks and was not planning to keep anything in the barracks, which was why I was asking about my plan as far as having someone, well off base, keep stuff for me that I would have mailed to the person, so I could hang out somewhere safe well off base (i.e. an LGBT bar). Furthermore, I'm talking about this as far as when I actually get to a permanent duty station. The burqa thing was a joke, and I'm quite confident that I can go through the year long deployments without anything to do with crossdressing. What I'm asking about is the safety basically of getting my clothes stored with someone well off base, dressing well off base, and hanging out somewhere LGBT friendly well off base.

[ak88gurl]

Ellyn, I'm asking for opinions soley on my plans to occasionally crossdress without letting the military find out, and if you have never served in the military, I'd actually rather ask you incidentally to keep your opinions to yourself entirely because the point was to get some insider perspective also.

[Michelle.M]

I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.

[ak88gurl]

I'm aware of the regulations and I appreciate your well-founded concern, especially with you being someone who has been serving. I'm very much planning on not letting the military know about this part of me, which is why I'm asking if my plans on how to deal with the crossdressing part of me sound reasonable in terms of safety. Am I likely to be caught off base on the weekends with the previously mentioned plans? Has anyone else done what I'm talking about or something similar?

[Michelle.M]

I . . . I'm asking if my plans on how to deal with the crossdressing part of me sound reasonable in terms of safety. Am I likely to be caught off base on the weekends with the previously mentioned plans? Has anyone else done what I'm talking about or something similar?

Ah, I misunderstood. OK, this depends on many factors. Some posts have a higher number of homophobic, transphobic and misogynistic Soldiers than at others, and some career fields tend to attract candidates who are, um, somewhat less enlightened than others.

The Army is a pressure cooker of sexual assault, and don't think that croossdressers do not get assaulted. The percentage of sexual assaults in society at large is between 15 and 20% (18% seems to be the average) whereas the incidence of sexual assault in the military is between 38-48%. This is documented and the DoD knows about it and is trying to address it. Add homophobia / transphobia to the mix and all I can say is you'd better keep your eyes open.

Also, some areas where you might be stationed will be more trans-friendly than others. This will have some impact on your safety while out and about in general, but if you are spotted by a Soldier you know and he snaps a cell phone photo and takes it back to post all bets are off. That's assuming that this is all that happens. The incidence of sexual assault by straight Soldiers against other straight Soldiers (I'm talking about males) is shockingly high. We're talking all the way up to and including rape and gang rape, and again, DoD is aware and is trying to bring that down.

Imagine what will happen if you meet some of THOSE guys! If they won't stop at raping a guy who looks and acts male then you could find yourself in a very dangerous situation.

I do not go out in my military town. I leave town and do all my socializing there. In a couple of months it won't be an issue, but for now I consider myself to have no friends when it comes to this. I have a very close friend whom I am dying to discuss this with, and even he won't know about this until I am a civilian.

[Pythos]

Angie CD, i was able to find the post. yes I misread. It is IF they ask you that question. I still find it odd that you cannot excersise an activity that for all intents and purposes harms no one in a force that protects us from other forces that would kill people like us.

I am active duty Army and have decided to retire to enable my transition. Believe me when I tell you there are 3 things you must know -

1. AR40-501 (STANDARDS OF MEDICAL FITNESS) specifically prohibits your enlistment (Para 2-27 n. page 15) or retention (Para 3-35, page 33) if you are a cross dresser or transsexual. Download the reg here: http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r40_501.pdf

2. This is not to say that there are no cross dressers in the military, but if they ask you when you enlist if you are a cross dresser and you say No you'll get in, but if your dressing comes to light you could never tell them you were doing this before you joined or not only will you be discharged under Para 3-35 you may also find yourself prosecuted for a fraudulent enlistment. And if you enlisted or later reenlisted in a program that gave you a monetary bonus you'll be required to pay this back. An ROTC contracted cadet (which you are not) may be required to pay the cost of the college classes they'd received (I have actually seen ROTC frauds prosecuted this way). You had better stay in DEEP STEALTH if you join.

3. The repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell does nothing for us. DADT dealt with sexual orientation, NOT gender identity or gender expression. AR 40-501 is still in effect. In fact, if you do a web search for DADT Repeal FAQ you'll find that very topic specifically addressed.

Sorry, but this is the reality as of today. Maybe it will change before too long, but don't hold your breath.

[AngieCD]

I'll concede that it is in the regulation. That said, I have never heard of it being asked. The same paragraph also mentions exhibitionism and voyeurism, which could cover girls who flash their breasts at a concert or during Mardi Gras and people who look at porn. The other key is that in the military, you are not allowed to self diagnose. Unless a doctor declares you to have the condition, you don't have it and thus don't have to disclose it. This is why I don't have hay fever, but am very allergic to grass, pollen, etc. Note also that they never ask if a candidate has performed or received oral sex, or participated in any position other than the missionary position, all of which are illegal under the UCMJ. Like Article 134, these things exist as avenues for the easy removal of problem people.