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    Difference between transgendered and a crossdresser

    I don't quite understand the difference between someone who is transgendered and someone who crossdressses.

    first, I do not consider myself to be part of any gender - I believe there is a gender spectrum and let's say it was like this
    Male-----------+------X--F
    I would be where the X is
    and it does shift around from time to time, but it never goes all the to the left.. it goes neutral at most.
    I don't have any problem in how i view myself. Like I said, I don't like to think I am part of any gender, but if I had to, it would be female.
    (And i really think it just depends on my hormones that day.. I don't take hormone replacements.. just our bodies naturally produce estrogen and testosterone)


    I am 27, and I used to just conider myself a crossdresser years ago, and simply didn't think I was transgendered even though, I really wanted to hvae a female body really baldly. and still do.. I just have a lot of areas I need to work out first.

    but like how many of you really think that there is a difference between crossdressers and transgendered?

    could a lot of crossdressers be transgendered? perhaps just living in denial?

    I get that some people may just crossdress once in a while for kicks or for sexual pleasure or they just enjoy the clothing and may still view themselves as a male, and so forth. but what if they just have never accepted themselves as female?

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    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    At the very first support group meeting I ever attended, someone stated that the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual is two years. Ok so obviously this is a joke and does not apply in all situations, but it did for me. That support group meeting was two years ago in November, and I will be full full full time next week as I came out at work this month. Point being is the joke is true for some, because before we could even consider transition, we had to come to terms with ourselves.

    I believe that crossdressers and transsexuals both fall under the trans umbrella, but if you want to know the difference read through this forum or others for that matter for several months. It will become clear what the differences are.
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    I think it was 4 years for me

    It took me a lot of thought and angst to work it through. Along the line I started a thread How do you know if you are transgendered or just CD? that got quite a number of thoughtful responses. (123 posts in the thread, over several months, and a lot of thought and emotion expressed. It is worth reading, but do not expect it to be a "fast read".)

    Eventually, after all of my effort of reasoning, I just one day knew that I was transgendered, and as soon as I knew that, I knew that it was right for me. The reasons and concerns just became background "evidence" (or possibly rationalization), and stopped mattering. Perhaps "Faith" replaced "Reason" -- but without my struggles to reason the matter, I might never have come to the point of being able to accept that faith.

    Do I think there is a difference between cross-dresser and transgendered? Yes, but I would be hard-put to define the difference for those who are transgendered but have not realized it yet. But even before I came to realize that I was transgendered, I had internally come to the point where dressing in male clothes out of concern about what people would say or think, had become a sort of lie to me, a lie that was a big burden on me.

    If (for example) going grocery shopping in a skirt is something that someone finds they "need" to do, not for the thrill or "fun" or attention, but just because it feels more authentic than "hiding" does, then they are quite possibly transgender, I would judge.

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    @Melody Moore to refer to me as a crossdresser is laughable, straight up!!

    Also note, there is no room for anyone else in my basket, it is mine and that's that. People must have smoked a big fatty to think I care what you think of me. Anyone can use copy/paste in hopes of look smart. If the argument is weak it will prove out otherwise as it was clearly illustrated. If egos have been bruised it is not my doing, I have only replied in kind as everyone who has the right to.

    My life is mine and only mine. I carry no rifle or banner for anyone other then the ones suffering. Yet there are so many here that love to jump on the backs of the ones who will not fall in line. Sorry I am not that lemming.

    I feel sorry that you have had people do you harm, we have all had that experience. I also feel that that 'heterosexual male' Julia was talking about most be laughing his arse off reading these arguments as they are so far removed from the OP.

    I am transgender, without the umbrella. Someone with a bit of GID so what!?

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    @Melody Moore to refer to me as a crossdresser is laughable, straight up!!
    Excuse me Vanessa, please show me where I ever referred to you as a crossdresser?

    You admitted that you were not transsexual, so my guess you are somewhere in between putting
    you somewhere in the Gender Queer and Androgyous categories posssibly under the category of
    People who live cross-gender but NEVER did I ever refer to you as a crossdresser. So please!!!!

    I really hate communicating via any form of text, chat, forums etc because people lack literacy skills
    and often misread text communications all the time. I even do it sometimes, so I'm not perfect either,
    but I am not misreading anything here. So take more note next time before you accuse me of making
    statements that I never made. So straight up, its laughable that you made this stupid accusation.

    So what else do you do for tricks?
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-29-2011 at 02:06 AM.
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    Senior Member Kelsy's Avatar
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    Under what catagory do we file the folks with internalized transphobic problems who cannot self identify as transsexual even with a GID diagnosis?
    Born female intended

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    As stated above a lot of cross-dressers are transgender, whether they deny it or not, but I think that your intention was to ask if they could be TS in denial.
    Wrong Rianna, all crossdressers are transgendered.

    So to be clear about the terminology TRANSGENDER is not a gender variant,
    it is an umbrella terminology that includes Transsexuals, Gender Queers/
    Androgynous and Cross-dressers/Transvestites. And personally I think that
    the OP falls in the Gender Queer/Androgynous category because their gender
    identity is so fluid.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 01:59 AM.
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    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    So to be clear about the terminology TRANSGENDER is not a gender variant,
    it is an umbrella terminology that includes Transsexuals, Gender Queers/
    Androgynous and Cross-dressers/Transvestites.
    There is a different meaning that is fairly common. The Oxford English Dictionary expresses it as, ""Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these." Others instead write in terms of gender identity not matching the body.

    The use as an umbrella term was apparently not until the 1980's, with no-operation transition apparently the meaning before that.

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    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandra-leigh View Post
    There is a different meaning that is fairly common. The Oxford English Dictionary expresses it as, ""Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these." Others instead write in terms of gender identity not matching the body.
    Transsexuals, Gender Queer, Androgynous and identity Cross-dressers all fall directly under this distinction. The first because we move from Male to Female or from Female to Male. The others move between those roles

    Quote Originally Posted by sandra-leigh View Post
    The use as an umbrella term was apparently not until the 1980's, with no-operation transition apparently the meaning before that.
    So, because a term has only been defined in a particular way for over 30 years, should we eschew that definition in favour of one that appeared when the term was first coined?
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    Kim L of S. Texas Kimberly Long's Avatar
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    I do not consider my self as a crossdresser, I am not a transexual, I am a Transgender. I was a crossdresser all most all of my life, I became a transgender when I started HRT, got rid of all of my male clothing, and started living a a woman full time. I present my self as a woman 24/7. I am not going for any surgery due to my age, therefore. I am so pleased with who I am now, and enjoy everyday of my life as a woman.
    Love Kimberly

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    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    So, because a term has only been defined in a particular way for over 30 years, should we eschew that definition in favour of one that appeared when the term was first coined?
    There are multiple current definitions of the term; the umbrella usage was a co-opting of the original term and is not completely accepted, and has not replaced the original meaning.

    Consider for example that I visit at least one site every work day. "Site" here meaning distinct series of web pages, as it has come to mean since 1991. But that doesn't mean that when my neighbor says he visits a site, that he is talking about computers: to him it means that he has gone somewhere physically to work on his construction-related job. The fact that a new meaning for a word has been added does not mean that the old meanings are no longer valid.

    (I need to run off to an appointment, so I will update this response later with another point.)

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    The overwhelming majority of cross dresses are hetrosexual males that dress for a variety of reasons ranging from sexual fetishes to female illusion.

    Transsexuals whether that be FTM or mtf examples are defined as having GID.

    Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with their biological sex and/or the gender they were assigned at birth). It describes the symptoms related to transsexualism, as well as less severe manifestations of gender dysphoria. GID is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[1] and by the DSM-IV TR.[2].

    Many but not all Transsexual people are driven to transition from one gender presentation to the other.

    Cross dressers have no medical diagnosis or descriptive concerning their "need" or desires concerning wearing cloting of the opposite sex.

    They do however have a mental disorder diagnosis.

    Transsexual people ave little in common with cross dressers other than perhaps clothing.

    I'm intersexed and exist in a different classification due to biologically having attributes of both sexes.


    Julia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    The overwhelming majority of cross dresses are hetrosexual males that dress for a variety of reasons ranging from sexual fetishes to female illusion.

    Transsexuals whether that be FTM or mtf examples are defined as having GID.

    Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with their biological sex and/or the gender they were assigned at birth). It describes the symptoms related to transsexualism, as well as less severe manifestations of gender dysphoria. GID is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[1] and by the DSM-IV TR.[2].

    Many but not all Transsexual people are driven to transition from one gender presentation to the other.

    Cross dressers have no medical diagnosis or descriptive concerning their "need" or desires concerning wearing cloting of the opposite sex.

    They do however have a mental disorder diagnosis.

    Transsexual people ave little in common with cross dressers other than perhaps clothing.

    I'm intersexed and exist in a different classification due to biologically having attributes of both sexes.


    Julia
    Absolutely, I agree with what Julia has stated here.

    Some may have valid reasons to only use the word Transgender in the context of an umbrella term. Transgender is also a descriptive for persons that suffer gender dysphoria that have no want to transition. Like myself...
    We all suffer, why just change the packaging (rhetorical)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    Transgender is also a descriptive for persons that suffer gender dysphoria that have no want to transition. Like myself...
    Sorry, but you might be transgender, but more descriptively you fall into gender queer/
    androgynous categories if you are not intending to ever undergo gender transition.

    Transgender identities from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Sorry, but you might be transgender, but more descriptively you fall into gender queer/
    androgynous categories if you are not intending to ever undergo gender transition.
    Since we're quoting Wikipedia, its worth pointing out that "gender queer" is described as yet another umbrella term (which can even include transsexuals). It also points out that some in this category prefer "transgender". One reason for that is to avoid politics. Personally, I think "gender queer" is one of the worst terms in the gender lexicon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I don't quite understand the difference between someone who is transgendered and someone who crossdressses.
    That is a little bit like saying you don't understand the difference between an apple and fruit. An apple is fruit, but not all fruit is an apple.

    In a similar way, someone who cross-dresses other than for professional (and perhaps fetish) reasons is transgender - that is they cross the normally accepted gender behaviour. Transsexuals are also transgender because our whole being crosses the normally accepted gender identity and behaviour.

    Since you posted in the transsexual forum, I will make a guess that you are trying to work out for your self whether your transgender goes as far as you being transsexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I do not consider myself to be part of any gender - I believe there is a gender spectrum and let's say it was like this
    Male-----------+------X--F
    I would be where the X is and it does shift around from time to time, but it never goes all the to the left.. it goes neutral at most.
    If you self-identify as more female than male, then you may have gender dysphoria and some may say that you have Gender Identity Disorder, but the question for me would be what level of distress is caused to you by the disconnect between your natal sex and your gender identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I don't have any problem in how i view myself. Like I said, I don't like to think I am part of any gender, but if I had to, it would be female. (And i really think it just depends on my hormones that day.. I don't take hormone replacements.. just our bodies naturally produce estrogen and testosterone)
    I am not a doctor, but I don't think that most people's body produces sufficiently marked changes in the balance between testosterone and oestrogen to provoke the kind of shift that you describe. That is not trying to deny what you experience, just suggesting that the cause may be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I am 27, and I used to just consider myself a crossdresser years ago, and simply didn't think I was transgendered even though, I really wanted to hvae a female body really badly. and still do.. I just have a lot of areas I need to work out first.
    If your dressing was linked to your gender identity then you are definitely transgender. Whether you are transsexual is a separate but equally important question for which only you can provide the answer. I am curious what the "other areas" might be that are more important to you than congruence between your gender identity and your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    could a lot of crossdressers be transgendered? perhaps just living in denial?
    As stated above a lot of cross-dressers are transgender, whether they deny it or not, but I think that your intention was to ask if they could be TS in denial. A small number might be, but there are sufficient numbers of cross-dressers whose primary gender identification will always be male for this not to be true in every case.

    To refer briefly to my personal experience as an attempt to answer the question I believe you intended to ask. I was in denial for far too long and when it started to come to a head, I tried to use cross-dressing as a coping mechanism. During that period, I was still trying to delude myself that I could be a man (albeit in a dress). So at that time, I would have classed myself as a cross-dresser but would indeed have been TS in denial since I have been TS from birth.
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    Never knows best Amber99's Avatar
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    Transgender seems like a really useless word that only leads to confusion.

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    It may be over-simplifying things but I tend to break it down as follows....

    Crossdressing is something one does.

    Transsexual is what someone is.


    Now to fit the term transgender into the big picture seems to complicate matters but that probably is an apt term, the big picture.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    It may be over-simplifying things but I tend to break it down as follows....

    Crossdressing is something one does.

    Transsexual is what someone is.


    Now to fit the term transgender into the big picture seems to complicate matters but that probably is an apt term, the big picture.
    This may be simplistic, but it works and applies to me! When I suddenly started dressing at age 50, I wanted real breasts and fantasized about becoming female! My dressing gradually ramped up as my desire to become female waned.

    When I finally came out of the closet online here, I finally found out what being a CD/TG/TS meant. I heard that, "Wait 2 years and you'll be TS". And, I read all about everyone's fem feelings inside! After 4 years here, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop! But now, I've pretty much given up finding my fem side or feeling trans.
    So, if I'm not trans and all desires to become female have vanished, I wonder why dressing is still such a thrill for me after nearly 15 years!? But, it IS!
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 12-29-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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    Amber, in a nutshell that is correct, there are many in the community who are in favour of
    dropping the transgender label from all support groups etc. We have been talking about this
    as well. Many are calling for the use of "Sex & Gender Diverse" instead of Transgender.

    Many people in society assume that transgender also means transsexual, so they call a transsexual
    person a transgender person. And this is really offensive to a transsexual person because they get
    mixed up and confused with the crossdressing or transvestite community who are included now under
    the transgender umbrella, so some of us are keen to distance themselves from that. We also need to
    be clearly identified because a transsexual should always have the rights to use a gender appropriate
    toilet, but I don't think a male crossdresser should be allowed to enter a female toilet. Women & kids
    have been sexually abused already, so we need to be able to control this. If you are not legally identified
    as a female which also requires a doctors certificate to prove it, then you don't belong in the ladies toilets.

    Personally if someone outside the trans community ever refers to me a transgender or a trans person
    then they are going to have one very pissed off bitch to deal with. I also think its a huge insult as an
    intersex/transsexual female. So the sooner we can get right away from the "trans' tags the better.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    Labels people, that is all they are. Please don't get pissed off at those that use Transgendered as an umbrella. It helps nothing and just makes the one protesting look silly (this excludes intersexed individuals, they are not trans, they just are....which should not be a hindrance upon them a all)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    It helps nothing and just makes the one protesting look silly
    Then there are lots of "silly" people out there protesting about this eh?

    I am sure they are not silly, some just don't like the term PERIOD especially post-op transsexuals
    and intersex people who I have found refuse to be part of any group that calls themselves a
    "transgender" support group but have no issues being part of a "Sex and Gender Diverse" group.
    You will see this more and more in the future I am sure after some recent meetings I have been to.

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    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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    I fully agree with this Melody.

    TS/IS people do not have much in common with the overall gender umbrella.

    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.
    This is why you see a ever growing divide between TS/IS people and the term transgender.


    Julia

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Then there are lots of "silly" people out there protesting about this eh?

    I am sure they are not silly, some just don't like the term PERIOD especially post-op transsexuals
    and intersex people who I have found refuse to be part of any group that calls themselves a
    "transgender" support group but have no issues being part of a "Sex and Gender Diverse" group.
    You will see this more and more in the future I am sure after some recent meetings I have been to.

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    Last edited by Sharon; 12-28-2011 at 10:55 PM. Reason: fixed quote

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    In speaking to the group in general I add this:

    A hypothesis based on a collection of innuendos and suspicions hoping that something sticks to a conversation is a weak contribution.

    Classifying such a vast field of individuals is at best awkward. I think Transsexuals are best severed under the transgender umbrella. And as a personal comment think the individual that has gone through that process should drop all of the terms they were associated with throughout their journey. It was a journey and now over, you have achieved.

    Re-Start from the OP
    From the point of view of the Male to Female variant

    ............Transgender
    Transsexual........cross-dresser
    Female.............................Male

    This description should not be a binary label it has to be a variant to accommodate the field. It is only with a collection of past experiences that makes it possible to move forward. This school of thought does not include trying to talk down to others in an attempt to show how ignorant they may or may not be. The old-school thinker with either let go of their knowledge base or use it to enhance and embrace the new. There is nothing else, time moves on.

    In my opinion, to simply throw out baseless opinions about others does nothing whatsoever to help a community and only serves to feed one’s own ego. As well there is no reason for applying backhanded comments in hopes of gaining some type of acceptance. We see it time and time again where emotions simply do not translate well in a textual environment. The result is always someone gets hurt or offended unintentionally. A collection of attitudes towards others is not a premise for classifying anything it is a list of the collector’s bigotry.

    There is a tremendous amount of work that has already been done towards clarification of terms. Sure not all agree with that work. That tension is what makes use move forward as part of humanity. Collecting new information is work, hard work. If you don’t question everything then you are not doing yourself any justice. You can see where some don't want to continue down that road. After traveling for so long some want to just say "enough you are wrong I am right" just to end their frustration.

    These are my personal thoughts. It is not my intent to discredit anyone, but simply to participate in the thread.
    Last edited by *Vanessa*; 12-30-2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: formating error in app

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    @Melody Moore
    There are far too many resources throughout the world that make others look wrong. Am I right?
    I'll stick the transgender thank-you... As would many that know me and how WPATH likes to refer to me as. But truly I am just me, feel free to call me anything you like.
    Last edited by *Vanessa*; 12-28-2011 at 04:48 PM.

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The crossdressing community is one that needs to stick together and continue to be there for each other for whatever one needs.
We are always trying to improve the forum to better serve the crossdresser in all of us.

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