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Thread: Difference between transgendered and a crossdresser

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    Difference between transgendered and a crossdresser

    I don't quite understand the difference between someone who is transgendered and someone who crossdressses.

    first, I do not consider myself to be part of any gender - I believe there is a gender spectrum and let's say it was like this
    Male-----------+------X--F
    I would be where the X is
    and it does shift around from time to time, but it never goes all the to the left.. it goes neutral at most.
    I don't have any problem in how i view myself. Like I said, I don't like to think I am part of any gender, but if I had to, it would be female.
    (And i really think it just depends on my hormones that day.. I don't take hormone replacements.. just our bodies naturally produce estrogen and testosterone)


    I am 27, and I used to just conider myself a crossdresser years ago, and simply didn't think I was transgendered even though, I really wanted to hvae a female body really baldly. and still do.. I just have a lot of areas I need to work out first.

    but like how many of you really think that there is a difference between crossdressers and transgendered?

    could a lot of crossdressers be transgendered? perhaps just living in denial?

    I get that some people may just crossdress once in a while for kicks or for sexual pleasure or they just enjoy the clothing and may still view themselves as a male, and so forth. but what if they just have never accepted themselves as female?

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    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    At the very first support group meeting I ever attended, someone stated that the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual is two years. Ok so obviously this is a joke and does not apply in all situations, but it did for me. That support group meeting was two years ago in November, and I will be full full full time next week as I came out at work this month. Point being is the joke is true for some, because before we could even consider transition, we had to come to terms with ourselves.

    I believe that crossdressers and transsexuals both fall under the trans umbrella, but if you want to know the difference read through this forum or others for that matter for several months. It will become clear what the differences are.
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    I think it was 4 years for me

    It took me a lot of thought and angst to work it through. Along the line I started a thread How do you know if you are transgendered or just CD? that got quite a number of thoughtful responses. (123 posts in the thread, over several months, and a lot of thought and emotion expressed. It is worth reading, but do not expect it to be a "fast read".)

    Eventually, after all of my effort of reasoning, I just one day knew that I was transgendered, and as soon as I knew that, I knew that it was right for me. The reasons and concerns just became background "evidence" (or possibly rationalization), and stopped mattering. Perhaps "Faith" replaced "Reason" -- but without my struggles to reason the matter, I might never have come to the point of being able to accept that faith.

    Do I think there is a difference between cross-dresser and transgendered? Yes, but I would be hard-put to define the difference for those who are transgendered but have not realized it yet. But even before I came to realize that I was transgendered, I had internally come to the point where dressing in male clothes out of concern about what people would say or think, had become a sort of lie to me, a lie that was a big burden on me.

    If (for example) going grocery shopping in a skirt is something that someone finds they "need" to do, not for the thrill or "fun" or attention, but just because it feels more authentic than "hiding" does, then they are quite possibly transgender, I would judge.

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    The overwhelming majority of cross dresses are hetrosexual males that dress for a variety of reasons ranging from sexual fetishes to female illusion.

    Transsexuals whether that be FTM or mtf examples are defined as having GID.

    Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with their biological sex and/or the gender they were assigned at birth). It describes the symptoms related to transsexualism, as well as less severe manifestations of gender dysphoria. GID is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[1] and by the DSM-IV TR.[2].

    Many but not all Transsexual people are driven to transition from one gender presentation to the other.

    Cross dressers have no medical diagnosis or descriptive concerning their "need" or desires concerning wearing cloting of the opposite sex.

    They do however have a mental disorder diagnosis.

    Transsexual people ave little in common with cross dressers other than perhaps clothing.

    I'm intersexed and exist in a different classification due to biologically having attributes of both sexes.


    Julia

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    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I don't quite understand the difference between someone who is transgendered and someone who crossdressses.
    That is a little bit like saying you don't understand the difference between an apple and fruit. An apple is fruit, but not all fruit is an apple.

    In a similar way, someone who cross-dresses other than for professional (and perhaps fetish) reasons is transgender - that is they cross the normally accepted gender behaviour. Transsexuals are also transgender because our whole being crosses the normally accepted gender identity and behaviour.

    Since you posted in the transsexual forum, I will make a guess that you are trying to work out for your self whether your transgender goes as far as you being transsexual.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I do not consider myself to be part of any gender - I believe there is a gender spectrum and let's say it was like this
    Male-----------+------X--F
    I would be where the X is and it does shift around from time to time, but it never goes all the to the left.. it goes neutral at most.
    If you self-identify as more female than male, then you may have gender dysphoria and some may say that you have Gender Identity Disorder, but the question for me would be what level of distress is caused to you by the disconnect between your natal sex and your gender identity.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I don't have any problem in how i view myself. Like I said, I don't like to think I am part of any gender, but if I had to, it would be female. (And i really think it just depends on my hormones that day.. I don't take hormone replacements.. just our bodies naturally produce estrogen and testosterone)
    I am not a doctor, but I don't think that most people's body produces sufficiently marked changes in the balance between testosterone and oestrogen to provoke the kind of shift that you describe. That is not trying to deny what you experience, just suggesting that the cause may be different.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    I am 27, and I used to just consider myself a crossdresser years ago, and simply didn't think I was transgendered even though, I really wanted to hvae a female body really badly. and still do.. I just have a lot of areas I need to work out first.
    If your dressing was linked to your gender identity then you are definitely transgender. Whether you are transsexual is a separate but equally important question for which only you can provide the answer. I am curious what the "other areas" might be that are more important to you than congruence between your gender identity and your body.

    Quote Originally Posted by JenniferLuvsPunk View Post
    could a lot of crossdressers be transgendered? perhaps just living in denial?
    As stated above a lot of cross-dressers are transgender, whether they deny it or not, but I think that your intention was to ask if they could be TS in denial. A small number might be, but there are sufficient numbers of cross-dressers whose primary gender identification will always be male for this not to be true in every case.

    To refer briefly to my personal experience as an attempt to answer the question I believe you intended to ask. I was in denial for far too long and when it started to come to a head, I tried to use cross-dressing as a coping mechanism. During that period, I was still trying to delude myself that I could be a man (albeit in a dress). So at that time, I would have classed myself as a cross-dresser but would indeed have been TS in denial since I have been TS from birth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    As stated above a lot of cross-dressers are transgender, whether they deny it or not, but I think that your intention was to ask if they could be TS in denial.
    Wrong Rianna, all crossdressers are transgendered.

    So to be clear about the terminology TRANSGENDER is not a gender variant,
    it is an umbrella terminology that includes Transsexuals, Gender Queers/
    Androgynous and Cross-dressers/Transvestites. And personally I think that
    the OP falls in the Gender Queer/Androgynous category because their gender
    identity is so fluid.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 01:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    So to be clear about the terminology TRANSGENDER is not a gender variant,
    it is an umbrella terminology that includes Transsexuals, Gender Queers/
    Androgynous and Cross-dressers/Transvestites.
    There is a different meaning that is fairly common. The Oxford English Dictionary expresses it as, ""Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these." Others instead write in terms of gender identity not matching the body.

    The use as an umbrella term was apparently not until the 1980's, with no-operation transition apparently the meaning before that.

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    What is normal anyway? Rianna Humble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sandra-leigh View Post
    There is a different meaning that is fairly common. The Oxford English Dictionary expresses it as, ""Of, relating to, or designating a person whose identity does not conform unambiguously to conventional notions of male or female gender roles, but combines or moves between these." Others instead write in terms of gender identity not matching the body.
    Transsexuals, Gender Queer, Androgynous and identity Cross-dressers all fall directly under this distinction. The first because we move from Male to Female or from Female to Male. The others move between those roles

    Quote Originally Posted by sandra-leigh View Post
    The use as an umbrella term was apparently not until the 1980's, with no-operation transition apparently the meaning before that.
    So, because a term has only been defined in a particular way for over 30 years, should we eschew that definition in favour of one that appeared when the term was first coined?
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    Kim L of S. Texas Kimberly Long's Avatar
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    I do not consider my self as a crossdresser, I am not a transexual, I am a Transgender. I was a crossdresser all most all of my life, I became a transgender when I started HRT, got rid of all of my male clothing, and started living a a woman full time. I present my self as a woman 24/7. I am not going for any surgery due to my age, therefore. I am so pleased with who I am now, and enjoy everyday of my life as a woman.
    Love Kimberly

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    Never knows best Amber99's Avatar
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    Transgender seems like a really useless word that only leads to confusion.

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    It may be over-simplifying things but I tend to break it down as follows....

    Crossdressing is something one does.

    Transsexual is what someone is.


    Now to fit the term transgender into the big picture seems to complicate matters but that probably is an apt term, the big picture.
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    Amber, in a nutshell that is correct, there are many in the community who are in favour of
    dropping the transgender label from all support groups etc. We have been talking about this
    as well. Many are calling for the use of "Sex & Gender Diverse" instead of Transgender.

    Many people in society assume that transgender also means transsexual, so they call a transsexual
    person a transgender person. And this is really offensive to a transsexual person because they get
    mixed up and confused with the crossdressing or transvestite community who are included now under
    the transgender umbrella, so some of us are keen to distance themselves from that. We also need to
    be clearly identified because a transsexual should always have the rights to use a gender appropriate
    toilet, but I don't think a male crossdresser should be allowed to enter a female toilet. Women & kids
    have been sexually abused already, so we need to be able to control this. If you are not legally identified
    as a female which also requires a doctors certificate to prove it, then you don't belong in the ladies toilets.

    Personally if someone outside the trans community ever refers to me a transgender or a trans person
    then they are going to have one very pissed off bitch to deal with. I also think its a huge insult as an
    intersex/transsexual female. So the sooner we can get right away from the "trans' tags the better.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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    Labels people, that is all they are. Please don't get pissed off at those that use Transgendered as an umbrella. It helps nothing and just makes the one protesting look silly (this excludes intersexed individuals, they are not trans, they just are....which should not be a hindrance upon them a all)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rianna Humble View Post
    So, because a term has only been defined in a particular way for over 30 years, should we eschew that definition in favour of one that appeared when the term was first coined?
    There are multiple current definitions of the term; the umbrella usage was a co-opting of the original term and is not completely accepted, and has not replaced the original meaning.

    Consider for example that I visit at least one site every work day. "Site" here meaning distinct series of web pages, as it has come to mean since 1991. But that doesn't mean that when my neighbor says he visits a site, that he is talking about computers: to him it means that he has gone somewhere physically to work on his construction-related job. The fact that a new meaning for a word has been added does not mean that the old meanings are no longer valid.

    (I need to run off to an appointment, so I will update this response later with another point.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    It helps nothing and just makes the one protesting look silly
    Then there are lots of "silly" people out there protesting about this eh?

    I am sure they are not silly, some just don't like the term PERIOD especially post-op transsexuals
    and intersex people who I have found refuse to be part of any group that calls themselves a
    "transgender" support group but have no issues being part of a "Sex and Gender Diverse" group.
    You will see this more and more in the future I am sure after some recent meetings I have been to.

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    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-28-2011 at 12:34 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    The overwhelming majority of cross dresses are hetrosexual males that dress for a variety of reasons ranging from sexual fetishes to female illusion.

    Transsexuals whether that be FTM or mtf examples are defined as having GID.

    Gender identity disorder (GID) is the formal diagnosis used by psychologists and physicians to describe persons who experience significant gender dysphoria (discontent with their biological sex and/or the gender they were assigned at birth). It describes the symptoms related to transsexualism, as well as less severe manifestations of gender dysphoria. GID is classified as a medical disorder by the ICD-10 CM[1] and by the DSM-IV TR.[2].

    Many but not all Transsexual people are driven to transition from one gender presentation to the other.

    Cross dressers have no medical diagnosis or descriptive concerning their "need" or desires concerning wearing cloting of the opposite sex.

    They do however have a mental disorder diagnosis.

    Transsexual people ave little in common with cross dressers other than perhaps clothing.

    I'm intersexed and exist in a different classification due to biologically having attributes of both sexes.


    Julia
    Absolutely, I agree with what Julia has stated here.

    Some may have valid reasons to only use the word Transgender in the context of an umbrella term. Transgender is also a descriptive for persons that suffer gender dysphoria that have no want to transition. Like myself...
    We all suffer, why just change the packaging (rhetorical)?

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    Transgender is also a descriptive for persons that suffer gender dysphoria that have no want to transition. Like myself...
    Sorry, but you might be transgender, but more descriptively you fall into gender queer/
    androgynous categories if you are not intending to ever undergo gender transition.

    Transgender identities from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender

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    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Sorry, but you might be transgender, but more descriptively you fall into gender queer/
    androgynous categories if you are not intending to ever undergo gender transition.
    Since we're quoting Wikipedia, its worth pointing out that "gender queer" is described as yet another umbrella term (which can even include transsexuals). It also points out that some in this category prefer "transgender". One reason for that is to avoid politics. Personally, I think "gender queer" is one of the worst terms in the gender lexicon.

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    @Melody Moore
    There are far too many resources throughout the world that make others look wrong. Am I right?
    I'll stick the transgender thank-you... As would many that know me and how WPATH likes to refer to me as. But truly I am just me, feel free to call me anything you like.
    Last edited by *Vanessa*; 12-28-2011 at 04:48 PM.

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    and Intersexed DO NOT fit in the "trans" category. They are as they are, and there should be NO stigma attached to what they are. I am in love with one, and the crap she has gone through just for being what she is is horrendous. She is NOT Trans anything.

    I however AM. I may be androgynous, but I am still Trans. But, when a woman wears men clothes SHE is also Trans, it is just that one is more acceptable, than the other.
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    I fully agree with this Melody.

    TS/IS people do not have much in common with the overall gender umbrella.

    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.
    This is why you see a ever growing divide between TS/IS people and the term transgender.


    Julia

    Quote Originally Posted by Melody Moore View Post
    Then there are lots of "silly" people out there protesting about this eh?

    I am sure they are not silly, some just don't like the term PERIOD especially post-op transsexuals
    and intersex people who I have found refuse to be part of any group that calls themselves a
    "transgender" support group but have no issues being part of a "Sex and Gender Diverse" group.
    You will see this more and more in the future I am sure after some recent meetings I have been to.

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    Last edited by Sharon; 12-28-2011 at 10:55 PM. Reason: fixed quote

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    wow Julia "heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose" now there is a visual I could do without.. ( this ends the reference to your post)

    con't
    Terms are fluid, they move in definition from country to country and continent to continent. It is only healthy to understand others in their meanings and how they use them.

    I think everyone here know that there is a huge deference between TS and CD without talking inclusions of definitions from various sources. I also think it is old fashion to try force people into a binary format, that just doesn't work any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post

    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.


    Julia
    That line will be famous for a while.
    The cold hard fact is she's right.

    Crossdressers don't have a gender identity issue and most will tell you so. Allways clinging to the safety of being seen as a man.
    Crossdressers are coat tail riders hoping someone else will justify their fetish for them while they are to busy trying to find new ways to hide their toys. The few that do manage to skulk to their car before the neighbors see them, head to gay clubs for acceptance and the disgusting part is they didn't and wouldn't do the work that made it possible for those places to exist in the 1st place.

    Crossdressers want to come to the transgender party and be under the "umbrella", well, do some of the work and stop acting like you're entitled to others fighting in public for you while you dont even have the guts to fight for yourself in personal relationships.
    Last edited by Miranda-E; 12-28-2011 at 08:49 PM.

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    More and more people are getting to know what transsexuals are , and transsexuals are slowly finding a place in day to day life...

    every time someone mislabels us is a step back...it matters.

    the no labels, i'm just me idea is fine...but it only goes so far, and it does nothing for transsexual men and women....

    In my mind, saying "im just me" is a cop out...if its not important to you, then just go be you..whatever you are..

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    I'll stick the transgender thank-you...
    Thats fine, believe whatever you want, but the fact remains transgender is still it's an umbrella term
    regrdless of whatever you might believe. And the fact is other people will define you however they see
    you. In this case I still believe that you fall under the Gender Queer/Androgynous categories regardless
    of whatever you think. It is my right to form my own opinion. I know I might sound like a bitch in saying
    that, however the reality is others will always draw their own conclusions whether you agree with it or not.

    And don't worry I had some stupid bitch in my support group was running around spreading a rumour
    that I was a "Crossdresser" and that I wasn't even on hormones. And I was thinking that I might plop
    my breast out in front of her one day & slap some truth & sense into her. PMSL So none of us are
    immune to the problem of being mislabelled by others. However in many instances I have seen some people
    mislabelling themselves, while others who know the differences apply the proper labels. For example, I see
    many here who believe they are transsexual but because they haven't come out yet, been diagnosed and
    started hormone therapy & taken one single step towards they cannot really make any claim about being
    transsexual. So these people are trying to work out where they fit in the transgender spectrum, so is all
    they know at this point is that they are transgendered.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    I may be androgynous, but I am still Trans.
    That's OK, being androgynous is being transgender yeah? So noone is disputing that.
    As for the woman who wears mens clothes, that is a load of crap. I know lots of women
    who wear men's uniforms or clothing when they go to work for practical reasons. Such
    as a female electrician, mechanic, factory workers, farm hands, etc. The fact is Pythos
    clothing don't define who you are. If you are a male who likes to dress up in female clothing,
    the fact is you still are just a man in a female clothing or more specifically you might be a
    drag queen, crossdresser or transvestite. I have seen male cheer leaders wearing the same
    clothing as the girls, such as shorts & a sports bra, but that does NOT make the trans anything.
    They are simply men who are dressing in a uniform that is part of their job as cheer leaders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    TS/IS people do not have much in common with the overall gender umbrella.

    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.
    This is why you see a ever growing divide between TS/IS people and the term transgender.
    Thank you Julia, this is what I have also been seeing in the community. I am a member of many transgender,
    transsexual and intersex networks and this is so true. We are keen to distance ourselves from those who
    engage in transvestic fetishism. I know many peoiple don't want to allow the fetishists to be part of the
    Sex & Gender Diverse community, because they don't have any issues with their birth sex or gender identity
    and that is why I believe we are now starting to see this new movement within the community.

    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    they move in definition from country to country and continent to continent. It is only healthy to understand others in their meanings and how they use them.
    ...
    I also think it is old fashion to try force people into a binary format, that just doesn't work any more.
    First of all they don't vary between the most modern countries who all share in the same WPATH SoC.

    And quite the contrary, I think the earlier part of this post where I replied to Julia highlights why there needs to be
    more distinct definitions. Sorry, I don't want to be included in the same basket as you or any other crossdresser.
    "Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
    "
    Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
    "
    Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
    "The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'

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