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Thread: Difference between transgendered and a crossdresser

  1. #26
    Aspiring Member JulieK1980's Avatar
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    I'm not sure what "I" am. I'm not sure if I care or not. I'm not really sure what labels matter and which don't. But, I can tell you what the actual dictionary definitions are.

    Transgender: An umbrella term that encompasses any and all people that do not fit the confines of a binary gender society. The fruit analogy someone put is apt. Transgender is like the category "Fruit" while Crossdressers and Transexuals are specific types of fruit.

    -Crossdressers
    -Transexuals
    -Intersexed

    In a nutshell anybody that isn't 100% physically and mentally one gender. (I will leave out Melody's rather lengthy subcategories and stick to the generic ones here)

    Crossdresser: A person that wears the clothes of the opposite gender. Notice the period at the end of the sentence. It goes no deeper than that. It includes fetishistic crossdressers, and it includes anyone else that wears the clothes that are meant for the opposite of their biologic gender. Also note, nowhere in that definition is "masturbating to a pair of panties." However, if someone wears a pair of them, and then masturbates they would be a crossdresser.

    Crossdressing is a VERB. It's an action. Doing something. A crossdresser, is a person doing that something. IE descriptive noun.
    Last edited by JulieK1980; 12-29-2011 at 01:35 AM.

  2. #27
    Junior Member ronny's Avatar
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    Oh..there is a big difference..but just be you and let it happen naturally in time..whichever you are is ok!!

    Roni

  3. #28
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    @Melody Moore to refer to me as a crossdresser is laughable, straight up!!

    Also note, there is no room for anyone else in my basket, it is mine and that's that. People must have smoked a big fatty to think I care what you think of me. Anyone can use copy/paste in hopes of look smart. If the argument is weak it will prove out otherwise as it was clearly illustrated. If egos have been bruised it is not my doing, I have only replied in kind as everyone who has the right to.

    My life is mine and only mine. I carry no rifle or banner for anyone other then the ones suffering. Yet there are so many here that love to jump on the backs of the ones who will not fall in line. Sorry I am not that lemming.

    I feel sorry that you have had people do you harm, we have all had that experience. I also feel that that 'heterosexual male' Julia was talking about most be laughing his arse off reading these arguments as they are so far removed from the OP.

    I am transgender, without the umbrella. Someone with a bit of GID so what!?

  4. #29
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sara Jessica View Post
    It may be over-simplifying things but I tend to break it down as follows....

    Crossdressing is something one does.

    Transsexual is what someone is.


    Now to fit the term transgender into the big picture seems to complicate matters but that probably is an apt term, the big picture.
    This may be simplistic, but it works and applies to me! When I suddenly started dressing at age 50, I wanted real breasts and fantasized about becoming female! My dressing gradually ramped up as my desire to become female waned.

    When I finally came out of the closet online here, I finally found out what being a CD/TG/TS meant. I heard that, "Wait 2 years and you'll be TS". And, I read all about everyone's fem feelings inside! After 4 years here, I kept waiting for the other shoe to drop! But now, I've pretty much given up finding my fem side or feeling trans.
    So, if I'm not trans and all desires to become female have vanished, I wonder why dressing is still such a thrill for me after nearly 15 years!? But, it IS!
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 12-29-2011 at 01:41 AM.
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  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    @Melody Moore to refer to me as a crossdresser is laughable, straight up!!
    Excuse me Vanessa, please show me where I ever referred to you as a crossdresser?

    You admitted that you were not transsexual, so my guess you are somewhere in between putting
    you somewhere in the Gender Queer and Androgyous categories posssibly under the category of
    People who live cross-gender but NEVER did I ever refer to you as a crossdresser. So please!!!!

    I really hate communicating via any form of text, chat, forums etc because people lack literacy skills
    and often misread text communications all the time. I even do it sometimes, so I'm not perfect either,
    but I am not misreading anything here. So take more note next time before you accuse me of making
    statements that I never made. So straight up, its laughable that you made this stupid accusation.

    So what else do you do for tricks?
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-29-2011 at 02:06 AM.
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  6. #31
    Senior Member Kelsy's Avatar
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    Under what catagory do we file the folks with internalized transphobic problems who cannot self identify as transsexual even with a GID diagnosis?
    Born female intended

    " Don't die with your music still in you!"

  7. #32
    Senior Member Kelsy's Avatar
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    Way to much emphasis on which pigeon hole we can stick someone. I could never see any of this
    in such black and white terms. I am sure that if I strung out my entire history there could be catagories
    not mentioned here. All I want is reliable support and people I can trust.
    Born female intended

    " Don't die with your music still in you!"

  8. #33
    Life is for having fun. suzy1's Avatar
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    What a shame that there is so much confusion, so much unnecessary bickering about this subject.
    Calling another member stupid, and saying “it’s laughable that you made this stupid accusation”
    Or using phrases like “pissed off” is sad and not necessary.

    Are not the majority of us here just getting on with life and are happy to be us without a label?

    SUZY
    Last edited by suzy1; 12-29-2011 at 06:28 AM.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by suzy1 View Post
    Calling another member stupid, and saying “it’s laughable that you made this stupid accusation”
    Or using phrases like “pissed off” is sad and not necessary.
    Really? Well how come you never commented about these statements Suzy?

    Quote Originally Posted by *Vanessa* View Post
    @Melody Moore to refer to me as a crossdresser is laughable, straight up!!
    ...
    People must have smoked a big fatty to think I care what you think of me.
    Why single me out here Suzy? especially since I never cast the first stone here.

    I gave my opinion and this is the crap I get. Noone has to agree with me.
    Don't like what I have to say then by all means, put me on your ignore list.

    If you want to throw crap at me, then you can always expect to get it straight back!
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-29-2011 at 08:19 AM.
    "Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
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    Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
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    Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
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  10. #35
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    I appreciate Julia's and Melody's adamant statements, actually, as they FINALLY made it clear to me what their (the TS/IS population, that is) issue is with the term. (Sorry, but I'm slow sometimes.)

    As I might paraphrase it, trivial behavior isn't relevant to gender itself, no matter how unusual. Some of it (the sexual stuff) creates implications for those thereby associated. I was always more focused on the "gender" in "transgender."

    What I would venture, though, is that a crossdresser that feels compelled to dress at any level probably creeps in under the umbrella, however they may protest or whatever the level of denial. Do sexual motivations count? Maybe. While I'm inclined to exclude them in the case where the fetishism is just that, I'm mindful that the literature points to early behaviours and identity emergence that starts, or is confused with such things.

    Lea

  11. #36
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    for ts people it really is totally about identity. for the ts person, it feels like your life is at stake, it feels like the MEANING of your life is your identity....we transition and that feeling that was destroying us on the inside simply goes away...it goes away because the simple act of living as a female fulfills our nature in a way that allows us to survive and hopefully move on to a good quality of life in our proper gender role...

    There is NO umbrella. That's what it is... EVERYTHING else is different and not comparable...

    It gets confusing because many people that currently view themselves as crossdressers, autogynephiles, gender queer, or use the cop out of "i'm just me", are going to realize over time that they are suffering the same feeling of having no meaning in their life without transition...also many crossdressers (and i'm sorry but this is a simple true fact) tend to have their sexual fantasy to "go all the way" and it feels good to compare themselves to ts, and to push the limits of crossdressing by various means...some (sorry reine!! its just some) of those folks will find out over time that the ever increasing need for more and more is really their internal defenses melting away to the realization that it's transition or else...and in these forums i would not be surprised if this is the place where that feeling starts to creep in, and reading posts that challenge their inclusion with transsexuals gets a strong reaction

    IN your day to day life as a crossdresser, you keep your male name, you keep your male job, your male relationships, and outside of en femme time, you are referred to as male...regardless of how often you dress and present female, your male life fulfills you in the same way my female life fulfills me...
    the gender binary society has many benefits not the least of which is being able to communicate effectively to each other, people communicate to me as female..this is part of my fulfilled life...people communicate to cd's as male (except en femme) and calling a crossdresser a transgender person seems wrong... calling the behaviour transgender seems fine...

    In the day to day life a transsexual, the act of transitioning may be transgender behaviour as well, but its anthema to say after transition that we are transgender...even though many people do just that, and many transsexuals accept it...i've accepted in the past, but the more i see my old life in the rear view mirror, the less i like the term

    For the people who live in between, it's impossible for me to say...there are so many different views and i would venture that alot of people are very upset, focused on their inability to transition, or just confused and uncertain about themselves and settle for something other than transition, and others are quite secure in their own understanding that they are a third/blended/fluid gender... all of them are very unhappy thinking of themselves as crossdressers...and there is no easy classification other than perhaps transgendered ... but this group is not transsexual and only compares to transsexuals at the most superficial level....

    i do think the OP has it right in a way...whats the difference between tg and cd??? that's a fair question, but in my mind, i've realized over the years that its best to leave the ts out of that equation...

  12. #37
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    Kelsy,

    We call those people confused and stuck in a catch-22 of denial versus acceptance of themselves.

    I've seen it over and over again.

    It appears that the majority of these people will never progress past any sort of part time experience due to their inability to accept themselves as who and what they are.

    The phrase you wrote "" Cannot self identify as transsexual "" can be resolved by continued therapy and the ability of the person to stop the denial and accept the fact that they are truly transsexual.


    Julia




    Quote Originally Posted by Kelsy View Post
    Under what catagory do we file the folks with internalized transphobic problems who cannot self identify as transsexual even with a GID diagnosis?

  13. #38
    One Perky Goth Gurl Pythos's Avatar
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    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.


    Julia
    That line will be famous for a while.
    The cold hard fact is she's right.

    Crossdressers don't have a gender identity issue and most will tell you so. Allways clinging to the safety of being seen as a man.
    Crossdressers are coat tail riders hoping someone else will justify their fetish for them while they are to busy trying to find new ways to hide their toys. The few that do manage to skulk to their car before the neighbors see them, head to gay clubs for acceptance and the disgusting part is they didn't and wouldn't do the work that made it possible for those places to exist in the 1st place.

    Crossdressers want to come to the transgender party and be under the "umbrella", well, do some of the work and stop acting like you're entitled to others fighting in public for you while you dont even have the guts to fight for yourself in personal relationships.
    These posts are two of the most offensive and thoughtless and hate filled posts I think I have ever seen here. They are full of such wrong stereotypes.

    I FOR ONE am not riding on ANYONE'S coat tails!!! I also do not get sexual satisfaction by only wearing pantyhose. I DO get aroused by the thought of my GF running her hands up and down my pantyhosed legs. There is a bit of a difference. I also do not "skulk" out to my car. I do not go to gay bars. I DO wear what I like when the people involved ARE NOT my mother, nor my aviation related people. One day both of those will change.

    As far as finding new ways to hide my "fetish", You can take that attitude and toss it!!! I am sick of hiding. I am sick of running under radar. But I am also sick of being associated with pedophiles, rapists, sodomites (which even if you are male and having anal with a female...you are in fact a sodomite), and so on. I am tired of being called a pervert for preferring one look and set of clothing opposed to what I am "assigned" by what I have between my legs.

    Also, WHAT THE HELL DOES IT MATTER?!!! Why does it matter that an umbrella term is used (except as I have noted in the case of the IS individual) for all those, MALE AND FEMALE, that choose to blur the gender lines in one way or another?

    As far as not having the guts to fight. Once again take that attitude and shove it. I DO fight the best I can. If I was anymore out though I could LOSE MY JOB as well as MY HOME. So at this point I can't do as I would like. Reason being there simply are not enough out there supporting myself as well as others, and those that could help....choose instead to insult, and make claims like I am "riding coat tails"

    Also, I have at this time NO desire to fully transition. At present the only thing that could have me do such a thing was if my GF (or wife) honestly requested it, and even then it would have to be serious want.

    Some here just insinuated an umbrella term for me as well as others here, and that is pervert. To have people on this forum refer to other members here in that manner is really offensive.

    What upsets me is that what I do HURTS NO ONE, it takes the air from no one, it ruins nobody's lives, and aside from making people think, does no harm to someone's mental abilities.

    If the day comes that they start rounding up the "freaks" and sending them to processing camps, it won't matter. We will ALL fit under one category whether you like it or not.
    Last edited by Pythos; 12-29-2011 at 11:26 AM.
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  14. #39
    Style Icon Sara Jessica's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    I take huge offense in being classified as being part of a umbrella term that includes heterosexual men that gain sexual satisfaction from masterbating in pantyhose and attempts to garner some sort of acceptance by claiming transgender status.
    While I see your POV Julia, I think the problem in what you present is that most of the people you describe are so much in the shadows that they have little interest in the broader TG community and give little, if any thought to co-op'ing themselves into transgender status. Their behavior may be transgendered in a clinical sense but their own POV is not likely to be seen as such. Sort of like what I said before, they do what they do but are not defined by this as who they are. To cite this type of individual as something that is threatening in any way to the issues on the TS side of things seems really inflammatory.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    for ts people it really is totally about identity. for the ts person...
    Right on!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    There is NO umbrella. That's what it is... EVERYTHING else is different and not comparable...
    But the umbrella exists, for better or worse. It's a method of description and also provides for a way to visualize the theory of a continuum in our world.

    Going back to Julia's lovely visual , I have no problem with placing the pantyhose-wearer she describes on one end of the continuum and the fully transitioned woman on the other end with an infinite number of points in between. If we accept this as a general premise (go with me here), then it would also be fair to define that continuum as something which transforms from activity on one end (the cross-dresser who is defined by what they do) to a state of being on the other (the woman who once may have described herself as being transsexual, also a state of being).

    This is not to say that movement along the continuum is a given, ie - Mr. Pantyhose-wearer is not likely to move into TS territory as a matter of course. Yet there can be movement when it comes to moments of self-realization as to what this whole thing means to us.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    ...and calling a crossdresser a transgender person seems wrong... calling the behaviour transgender seems fine...
    Right, kind of how I described above.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    In the day to day life a transsexual, the act of transitioning may be transgender behaviour as well, but its anthema to say after transition that we are transgender...even though many people do just that, and many transsexuals accept it...i've accepted in the past, but the more i see my old life in the rear view mirror, the less i like the term
    But isn't that the ultimate goal, to be fully self-actualized as the woman you are? Even if you are never in a position to be as stealth as you might like, there's nothing inherently wrong with shedding the label transsexual. You are a woman.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele View Post
    For the people who live in between, it's impossible for me to say...there are so many different views and i would venture that alot of people are very upset, focused on their inability to transition, or just confused and uncertain about themselves and settle for something other than transition, and others are quite secure in their own understanding that they are a third/blended/fluid gender... all of them are very unhappy thinking of themselves as crossdressers...and there is no easy classification other than perhaps transgendered ... but this group is not transsexual and only compares to transsexuals at the most superficial level...
    Oh Kaitlyn, I thank you for saying this as gently as possible as I'm sure that your friends on a middle path crossed your mind as you wrote this. But there are a couple issues. I think what you are saying speaks to the continuum in that those who might fall in that middle path territory are in that place where we are being rather than doing. Speaking for myself, my sense of being has been ever-present and really isn't any different than what many transsexuals have experienced. The only difference is the choices people have made in their lives, both leading up to the present time and what we might choose to do in the future. I have no shame in co-op'ing the terms transgender or transsexual as words to describe myself even if I live my life in sort of a gender purgatory. However, I really hate to think that in doing so that I might be causing any sort of offense, disrespect or discomfort to anyone on the transitioned side of the fence who wishes to disassociate themselves from the entire umbrella premise. Doing so eliminates many important allies to the ongoing concerns of our community.
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  15. #40
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    In speaking to the group in general I add this:

    A hypothesis based on a collection of innuendos and suspicions hoping that something sticks to a conversation is a weak contribution.

    Classifying such a vast field of individuals is at best awkward. I think Transsexuals are best severed under the transgender umbrella. And as a personal comment think the individual that has gone through that process should drop all of the terms they were associated with throughout their journey. It was a journey and now over, you have achieved.

    Re-Start from the OP
    From the point of view of the Male to Female variant

    ............Transgender
    Transsexual........cross-dresser
    Female.............................Male

    This description should not be a binary label it has to be a variant to accommodate the field. It is only with a collection of past experiences that makes it possible to move forward. This school of thought does not include trying to talk down to others in an attempt to show how ignorant they may or may not be. The old-school thinker with either let go of their knowledge base or use it to enhance and embrace the new. There is nothing else, time moves on.

    In my opinion, to simply throw out baseless opinions about others does nothing whatsoever to help a community and only serves to feed one’s own ego. As well there is no reason for applying backhanded comments in hopes of gaining some type of acceptance. We see it time and time again where emotions simply do not translate well in a textual environment. The result is always someone gets hurt or offended unintentionally. A collection of attitudes towards others is not a premise for classifying anything it is a list of the collector’s bigotry.

    There is a tremendous amount of work that has already been done towards clarification of terms. Sure not all agree with that work. That tension is what makes use move forward as part of humanity. Collecting new information is work, hard work. If you don’t question everything then you are not doing yourself any justice. You can see where some don't want to continue down that road. After traveling for so long some want to just say "enough you are wrong I am right" just to end their frustration.

    These are my personal thoughts. It is not my intent to discredit anyone, but simply to participate in the thread.
    Last edited by *Vanessa*; 12-30-2011 at 05:41 PM. Reason: formating error in app

  16. #41
    Aspiring Member JulieK1980's Avatar
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    Maybe some day, science will be able to fully alter a person's gender and this whole debate will be moot. Unfortunately that day isn't now. Until then it does serve a purpose to label. Even just from a medical need, it's important to know the difference in the spectrum. After all if we look at Iran's way of handling gender identity disorder we can see what happens when we don't label the different parts of the tg umbrella. In Iran, not only do they label all tg as GID, they clump homosexuality into it as well. Thus they perform SRS on ALL people whether they are homosexual, crossdressers, transexuals, or otherwise. (This is why they boast that there country has no homosexuals.) Granted this is an extreme example, but I'm sure you can all see the danger of having no labels. You see, we all bicker of the semantics of the labels and where everyone fits, but the REAL purpose of labels is for OTHERS to understand us. I don't know about the rest of you, but I DON'T need to know what my "label" is to be happy, but it is beneficial for other people so as to understand us, and understand that we are not all the same, nor do we have the same needs.

    My own humble opinion of the "spectrum" of the tg umbrella is this:

    Male......C..............T.........Female
    C=Crossdressers
    T=Transexual
    (Of course each individual falls somewhere on that line specific to themselves, and whether you are stuck at one spot on the line is debatable as well)

    And it sucks to be me, because I'm fairly certain I fall somewhere between the two, and thus I have little in common with crossdressers (IE no panty threads for me) and as I'm not planning to transition I don't have much in common with a transitioned TS either.

  17. #42
    Gold Member Kaitlyn Michele's Avatar
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    I think it's reasonable to understand yourself as transsexual but not transition. Based on my experience however, I have some doubt in my mind about it that is hard to erase... All the ts people I know are either transitioned, desperately trying to, or miserable. Despite myndoubt, I don't begrudge anyone that is suffering the life of a woman that lives as a man, and I think if transition doesn't happen, for whatever reason, you have the right and the responsibility to mitigate the gid in any way you can...

    Saying there is some kind of tg umbrella does not make it so..So arguing the tg umbrella is somehow necessary to communicate assumes the idea that there is one....I argue that there isn't (or at least it doesn't include transsexuals), and so that it actually hinders communication... If I am job hunting, and a person thinks of me as similar to a drag queen, need is say more?

    The point that this is a forum and it gives rise to disagreement is well taken... I have a ton of friends in the cd world...we never talk about this stuff, and it's just a given that we are at different places.

  18. #43
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    Could we please ease up. I have no idea on what I am but I feel like there are so many here that are expressing such bitterness towards some of us who have no idea who we are or where we fit, I am thinking seriously about avoiding the forum because I feel such hatred towards some of us. Some of your comments display such harshness that why subject those of us who come here for help and guidance feel rejection. Where do WE go?
    Yes it is all very good for those who know who they are and I admire you very much but for god sake ease up on showing hatred and so much dislike to those of us who have no idea.

    Damn labels segregate, and cause problems.

    Basically I am a human being like everyone.
    Last edited by Suzette Muguet de Mai; 12-29-2011 at 07:30 PM.

  19. #44
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    If I offend some people with what I say I'm sorry but sometimes the truth opens some very raw emotions.

    I belong to a distinct and separate group that exists outside that catch all phrase term "transgender".

    There will no longer be a co-opting of the TS/IS community by others that think they require rights where rights are not needed.

    Those under the transgender umbrella already have rights bestowed upon them due to their male privilege.

    Simply revert back to your male selves like you do and your rights are guaranteed.

    Those that live full time don't have those rights yet there are those that demand to be included in what little protections we have fought and bled for.

    People under the transgender umbrella will not understand what pain from discrimination is until they go full time.

    It took me five years of mostly hell to be where I am and I'll be damned if I remain silent while people that have no Idea what the TS/IS community goes through cry and whine because the truth is spoken.


    Julia

  20. #45
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    Julia,

    I don't consider myself transexual. I do however fall into the category of Transgendered. This is not a lable I apply to myself, it is what the psyciatry comunity applies to me and my ilk.

    now in the case of IS. You are NOT either TS NOR TG. You should not fit into either term.

    But you deal with the same hatred and bigotry that CDs, TSs, or anyone else that does not follow the gender norm. You showing the near hatred or disdain for people like myself does nothing for anyone.
    "I am not altogether on anyone's side as no one is all together on my side"
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  21. #46
    Junior Member Sophiewouldbenice's Avatar
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    @ Julia_in_Pa

    Well umbrella words are used to strengthen the community and to have more influence in the society. If it due to crossdressers running around for sexual pleasure, that it becomes more normal for others to see guys in "female" clothes, well it could have some good outcome for transsexuals, or make there transition a little bit easier. Of course it could turn out the other way to, when people thing of crossdressers as perverse and include transsexuals into this pattern.

    I would not put all crossdressers in the same category. There is of course a reason, why there is word like transgender and also more specific words - and yes there a huge differences which partly show no similarities.

    Take me, I consider myself as a heterosexual crossdressers, sexual pleasure is incorporated (fantasies also) and on the other hand this often is just annoying. Even the heterosexual part is only sure for 70-90% and there are moments, where I would really like to transition, but I at least know, I am not a trapped woman in a male body, so it does not make ense for me. So you can put me into this category of a boy you wants to feel more pretty and nice, emotional and sometimes weaker - for whatever reason, and for some other unclear reason I am sometimes a man and sometimes pretty aware of this fact and behave 150% like one. I can switch back and for but this causes also problems with my surrounding, you see the changes in my appearance and people make comments on it, do look more female I have to destroy parts of my male appearance which I like, but which do not go with the more female appearance and vice versa.

    So, I do not really know what it is about to go through a transition, but at least I have a small insight by going somewhere en femme. I know about discrimination pretty good, not as you but more than I asked for. Of course I am capable of throwing everything away and behave 100% man alike, I would not break (I am sure), but I would miss it and not for sexual pleasure (I can get a girlfriend and don't need it therefore). So maybe you can tell me, why I make it so difficult for me to get a girlfriend, who understands my desire to be sometimes dressed in "female" clothes and behave a little bit different - it does not make sense if I only do it for sexual stuff, at least not, if I cannot get pleasure from a partner - which I thanksfully can.

    So, this is not to offend you in anyway and I have great respect for everyone transitioning, comming from one gender or a bigender and transitioning. But here are also many floating definitions which may lead into each other and as long as the community trys to understand each other, umbrella words should not be offenive, I mean we are all human, another umbrella word.

    As a last note, there is the biological gender and a social one, society somehow mixes them and this is probably also one reason why we are all in this one community. This mixture for sure causes irritations and people wanting the female role partly questioning there biological gender, sometimes without sense sometimes it makes sense... so if you don't want such umbrella words, we maybe should divide society and biology - anyway I cannot say how much of society reasons drive a transsexual or if biologic reasons have to dominate (I simply don't know).

    You are invited to discuss in detail by private messages



    (whoever finds spelling or grammar mistakes can keep them, it is not my mother tongue and it is late here)
    Last edited by Sophiewouldbenice; 12-29-2011 at 08:37 PM.
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  22. #47
    Princess in the making SandraAbsent's Avatar
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    Wow! I avoided saying this in my first response, but I will go ahead and say it now. Let me first say that I am not fine with the umbrella term. Why? Let me quote something from my blog...

    [SIZE="3"]Full Female Experience[/SIZE]

    Someone made the comment the other day, that a transsexual female could never completely comprehend the full female experience, that having had the male privilege and power in the past, discredits the transexual female from having to endure a position of always being viewed as less than equal.

    Really?

    As I sit here this very moment sending out resumes for employment knowing full well that my gender identity is on trial every step of the way, how can I not feel as less than equal? It also mistakes that at no point in my life have I felt the "male privilege." As a matter of fact, if comparing to a cis-gender female, she can never fully comprehend the feeling of being less than equal, than I feel at this very moment.

    Enough said?
    The point being that it is situations like this that confuse people when you consider the "Umbrella." In this case, I am positive she was lumping everything all up in one, and never taking into the consideration that a person that is specifically transsexual or intersexed most likely has never experienced anything other than discrimination based on gender. I'm sorry but Julia was right when she said that if you are transgender, but not transsexual or intersexed and you want your rights back put your other gender back on and enjoy them. The challenge regarding the umbrella term is when it comes to spending time on serious legislation and social awareness programs to improve the lives of those who wish to live in the gender they see themselves as whether that be pre-op, post-op, whatever! Is an openly identified Male that enjoys wearing clothes for whatever reason obligated to the same protections as someone with a medical condition that is trying to live their life comfortably in an opposite gender role. If the answer is yes, where do we draw the line? See now why the umbrella term only serves to confuse things?

    In an earlier thread this week in the CDers forum, someone was discussing having to defend themselves at work for being outed for wearing a bra under shirt and tie and being threatened with his job for doing so. Everyone was screaming LAWSUIT!!! I dont think so. I think this is on a totally different playing field when compared to someone trying to transition at work or seek new work to start there transition. Or even being outed and loosing your job years after your SRS. This is just a small example of the huge differences.

    I am not anti CDers, or fetishests, or whatever. I have some CD friends and love them to death. Its simple though, some of our challenges are similar, but most of our challenges are totally different.

    So back to the original theme of this thread. Im sure you can see there are some pretty big differences based on what you have read in all the posts so far. I only have one thing to ask of CDers. Be mindful of the actions you take when you are in public. Because most of the public doesn't know the difference, they associate you and me together as one. What you do at home, work and play as a CDer does have an effect on me, because it effect how others view the (and i will use the umbrella term here) "Transgender" population. If you let us do our work the result will be a better world for you too!

    xoxo
    Sandra
    Life inside the music box ain't easy
    The malots hit the gears are always turning
    And everyone inside the mechanism
    Is yearning
    To get out

    http://sandra-absent.blogspot.com

  23. #48
    Be free - overcome fear!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    If I offend some people with what I say I'm sorry but sometimes the truth opens some very raw emotions.

    I belong to a distinct and separate group that exists outside that catch all phrase term "transgender".

    There will no longer be a co-opting of the TS/IS community by others that think they require rights where rights are not needed.

    Those under the transgender umbrella already have rights bestowed upon them due to their male privilege.

    Simply revert back to your male selves like you do and your rights are guaranteed.

    Those that live full time don't have those rights yet there are those that demand to be included in what little protections we have fought and bled for.

    People under the transgender umbrella will not understand what pain from discrimination is until they go full time.

    It took me five years of mostly hell to be where I am and I'll be damned if I remain silent while people that have no Idea what the TS/IS community goes through cry and whine because the truth is spoken.


    Julia
    Thank you Julia, well said!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pythos View Post
    now in the case of IS. You are NOT either TS NOR TG. You should not fit into either term.
    That isn't exactly true Pythos, I consider myself transsexual and yet I too am intersex and the reason I feel
    this way is because I spent the greatest majority of my life living as a surgically assigned male. So I seen and
    experienced life as a male and faced all the same issues as any other transsexual over my gender identity
    which includes having both Gender Identity Disorder and Gender Dysphoria. I also found out I was intersex
    after I started my transition and had already been diagnosed with GID.

    In addition to this I now have to undergo the same surgical processes as any other transsexual woman to correct
    the mistake made so many years ago. It's my choice what labels I apply to myself and I just identify as a female.

    Recently there was changes made to the Australian Passports where a pre-op MtF Trans woman can now
    have an F on their passport and a FtM trans man can have an M as their gender marker. If you identify as
    Intersex, the will use the letter X on your passport. Personally I don't like that idea of the X because I feel
    that it will only cause airport & customs officials to scrutinise me even more over my sex/gender identity.
    So in this case I will be applying for my F as a transsexual woman, not as an intersex person.
    Last edited by Melody Moore; 12-30-2011 at 01:34 AM.
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  24. #49
    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Julia_in_Pa View Post
    Those under the transgender umbrella already have rights bestowed upon them due to their male privilege.

    Simply revert back to your male selves like you do and your rights are guaranteed.

    Those that live full time don't have those rights yet there are those that demand to be included in what little protections we have fought and bled for.
    The phrase that comes to mind when I read this is, "Stuff and Nonsense".

    "male privilege" in my life has been a thing applied against me -- as in men asserting their privilege to bully me and make ignorant decisions about me because I did not act like a "real" male. I got ahead in life through competence, not through "male privilege". I stay ahead through work in areas where people care about efforts and results. not about names.

    If you are concerned, Julia, about your loss of rights, then why not "simply revert back to your male self"? You've lived with it before, you can live with it again. I, for one, stopped being able to live as a "male".

    You write as if no-one other than TS have ever fought and bled. I have fought and bled. I'm probably going to lose my job over my battles, most likely in either March or July 2012.

  25. #50
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    I am unable to return to any sort of male mode because biologically I'm not male.

    If I attempted to de transition I would have my semi automatic in my mouth within 6 months of de transitioning.

    As far as you having your employment threatened, if your not transitioning to full time then you should have been more careful as to not raise suspicion at your employer.

    If you are transitioning to full time then I say welcome to the big show because your about to face things you never comprehended before.

    These are the facts regardless of whether or not someone becomes offended.

    If current law in Canada is similar to the U.S. concerning protections for TS/IS people and your transitioning your in for
    one hell of a nasty ride.

    If your not then consider yourself lucky and move on.


    Julia

    Quote Originally Posted by sandra-leigh View Post
    The phrase that comes to mind when I read this is, "Stuff and Nonsense".

    "male privilege" in my life has been a thing applied against me -- as in men asserting their privilege to bully me and make ignorant decisions about me because I did not act like a "real" male. I got ahead in life through competence, not through "male privilege". I stay ahead through work in areas where people care about efforts and results. not about names.

    If you are concerned, Julia, about your loss of rights, then why not "simply revert back to your male self"? You've lived with it before, you can live with it again. I, for one, stopped being able to live as a "male".

    You write as if no-one other than TS have ever fought and bled. I have fought and bled. I'm probably going to lose my job over my battles, most likely in either March or July 2012.
    Last edited by Julia_in_Pa; 12-30-2011 at 07:53 AM.

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