I've setup a meeting with my pastor to discuss why I believe it's ok to be trans. I'm nervous about admitting to my pastor that I want to be a woman, and I'm also nervous that he may turn around and tell me that it is wrong.
any advice you can give me about how to approach this, how to overcome the fear, maybe some scripture that can be used to justify being trans etc...
It seems to me that it’s another case of religion interfering with people’s lives.
If you think it’s important what this man thinks about how you live your life then fine. But what a shame that religion can restrict some people from having the freedom they deserve.
It’s a funny old world we live in.
SUZY
Hi, Steph,
You do not need the aprovale of a man no matter who he is to be who you know your self to be, Do you have to prove who you are, reguardless of what he thinks its not up to him..
The ? i would be asking is not him , you need to ask your self .....ARE ..YOU.....a woman to start with,
& what the ....HELL.... has it to do with him any way what or who you are. this concerns you & only you.....
Im a woman tho different I S female . so who's going to tell me what i am no one , only i know what i am.......
You see what im saying.
How did i approach this with those i know i told them the same thing i told every one. im a female / woman who is different. & im liveing in a way that is true to who i have allways been.
The people who can not accept those of us who are different are the ones who wont show love or acceptance so leave them. for get the Bible , man will twist it to suit himself so youll never ever get any where,
Now iv been around those who are members of many different chuch groups & know how its going to go with many. now i do have many friends with in those groups & yes im accepted based on being a person first & as a woman no problems yet i know some are anti any thing thats out side thier teaching or thinking so i just move on they have shown them selfs for who they are , so end of .
I had one Pastor try & confuse many issue;s & he did not know what he was talking about yet his wife & 23 other women accepted i was nothing more than a woman so you see its a matter of understanding tho some dont wont to in this case the pastor.
Dont even think of useing the bible unless you know it back to front & even then you need to be very carefull of the translastions
You do not .....NEED... to justify who you are.
As i was told some years ago if you are a woman then be one, some times we need to take the bull by the horns & take control of .... what ever is bugging us & sort it out not let others tell you what to do.
In fact you dont need to tell him any thing or even ask tho it would be nice to tell him if you know him & his wife & she should be a part of this as well. that you are a woman & you.....WILL.... be liveing as one, dont use trans any thing its about being a woman, not this...... wonting to be one, ether,,
Tho thinking about this i would sit down & write a nice letter make a few copys one for him & his wife & id say the elders will be a part of this as well. if you hopefully intend to stay with them .
not knowing the group your with makes it harder to know how they will react , tho i know its based on thier teachings for some any ways,
all the best in this , because it can be hard i know what its like so dont be discouraged , if it goes wrong .
If your strong in your self then thats makes it better for you,
...noeleena...
Last edited by noeleena; 12-21-2011 at 05:17 AM.
Steph,Originally Posted by Steph.TS
I hope this does not come across too negatively, but it looks like you are setting up yet another roadblock for yourself. The biggest difference being that now you are asking your pastor to dissuade you instead of asking your mother.
Instead of searching out all the possible reasons that other people might have for you not to transition, I think that you need to give serious consideration to exactly who you are and what you want to get from the rest of your life.
If the answer turns out to be that you are not a woman trapped in a man's body then it is OK to admit that.
On the other hand, if the answer turns out to be that your gender dysphoria has become so acute that you can no longer function as a male then you need to face that fact and get on with what you need to do without searching out every Tom, Dick and Harry who will present you with their own list of bigoted opinions why you might be doing the wrong thing.
No-one on this site can tell you what is right for your life, but neither can your Pastor, your parents or anyone else you seek out to try to dissuade you.
Please try to assimilate this fact: With the exception of a few dedicated professionals no cisgendered person can even begin to imagine what being transgender is like.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
Dualing scripture approaches are pointless. The history of religion itself can be viewed as an exercise in proof-texting. It goes nowhere. Aside from that, assuming your pastor has any reasonable level of education and training in theology, you don't have a prayer in that kind of discussion. (forgive the pun)
It sounds like you are seeking external justification. The real question is why? Religious people often confuse their feelings of accountability to God with accountability to their pastor. It doesn't help that many religious leaders encourage that. If your pastor helps you explore and understand your own feelings, have at it. If it turns to demonstrating why you are wrong, walk away.
Lea
Last edited by LeaP; 12-21-2011 at 08:21 AM. Reason: duplicate signature
Steph --
My take on this is that you think this is something you must...i have posted to you many times about how i see your threads are often about roadblocks you put up for yourself..
I say if you are resolute in your plan, and you know you are prepared to transition, no matter what, then by all means see your pastor.. otherwise its too early... and we both know you are not ready...
I remember crying to my mom (we are roman catholic) and one of the things i said to her in anger and helplessness was that God hates me, that i'm some kind of demon...she said simply..
"oh sweetie, Jesus loves you"
that was it... she summed up the good things about religion in 5 words to me... i never thought about the "religious" aspects of all this ever again.. and i don't need a priest (and i respect good priest's alot) to tell me right and wrong... i know it in my heart
Noeleena,
I'm not allowing it to get to the point of what translation are you using, I'm going back to the original languages, and I'm showing what the verses that people uses against us says in the original language. I'm trying to dig in deep with scripture and show that Jesus himself even spoke in favor of this, I'm using the strong's concordance to translate the problem words that give people the firepower to attack us. it's my hope that I'll hear that I'm right, my mom can hear this and stop fearing I'll go to hell, and I'll have peace known that I'm not simply twisting scripture to suit my own purposes.
Rianna,
I am going to the pastor not to find a new road block, but because one has been created by my mom, she told me that is I go through with this she's not sure she'd see me in heaven. her delicate way of saying I'd end up in hell. my friend I came out too and my therapist both think I should confront my pastor, my friend because he knows my faith is important, and if my faith is correct whatever I do has eternal consequences. My therapist wants me to do this because I think she can see my faith in causing me issues on this front. but even if it goes south I'm meeting my therapist immediately after my meeting with my pastor. so I won't have to wait long to discuss my feelings.
If I get the all clear from my pastor, I'm hoping my mom can accept me on this issue. I'm hoping my family will be ok with me and allow me to transition.
everyone else,
I'm not looking for approval from my pastor, what I'm looking for is my knowledge of scripture is fairly weak, both my family and I trust my pastor's interpretation of scripture, the number of pastors that we find holding to scripture is becoming fewer and fewer. I'm going to present my argument to my pastor show him what the Bible says (atleast what I have found it to say) then I want him to either say 'yes you're right' or use scripture itself to fire back show me it's wrong. this method is approved by the bible: 2 Timothy 3:16 "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:" IF I'm wrong, I'm allowing someone that studies and teaches the Bible as a living to using scripture to correct me, and give me correct doctrine.
Last edited by Steph.TS; 12-21-2011 at 09:31 AM.
Where is the passage in the New Testament that has Jesus saying anything about Cd'ing ?
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I have to disagree with what you are saying Steph, this comment here proves to me that you are
still creating roadblocks for yourself. I really have an issue with this statement because you are
waiting on approval from your family to transition. You transition for yourself, NOT for your family
or anyone else. You DON'T need your family's approval. Hell if we all waited for our families to
approve of our transitions we would all be waiting or worse still, 6 foot under - DEAD!
LIVE YOUR LIFE FOR YOURSELF & NOT OTHER PEOPLE!
"Judging a person does not define who they are - it defines who you are"
"Don't be so Serious, if you can't laugh at yourself, call me....... I'll laugh at you!"
"Haters don't really hate you, they hate themselves, because you are a reflection of what they want to be"
"The most happiest people in this world don't need the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"'
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I doubt any good will come of this.
not CD'ing but Matthew 19:12 says "For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth, and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by men, and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Let the one who is able to receive this receive it.” obviously SRS and HRT didn't exist in the Biblical times, so I am stretching it a bit but as I interpret this verse, it's saying it doesn't matter what we do to our genitals leave them intact, or circumcise them, or remove them, and dare I say or modify them to be interior (or exterior for the FTM) God has a place in heaven for us if we are saved through his son.
that's the point I hope to drive home to my pastor.
I'll be interested to see what his response is to that verse. I like others think this is going to probably turn out negatively for you. But thankfully, you will be seeing your therapist right after for some clarification or reassurance. Good luck on this meeting!
--------
She obviously isn't sure enough of herself to know whether her hatred of your transition will ever be forgiven.
Check out this link if you are wondering about joining Safe Haven.
This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I was raised in a very evangelical Christian household.
Because of this I have a very sceptical view of Christian clergy.
I know not all are negative but I truly believe that me being who and what I am is of no business to any pastor or church.
It is the pastors burden to accept you not the other way around.
I'm very sure due to you writing this that you are very connected to your church and your faith but because of who and what you are YOU MUST BE ON GUARD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You can very easily be thrown to the lions so to speak concerning your revelation all in the name of Christ loving the sinner.
People care about you here and I write this because I care about you and you being hurt by someone who very well could be blinded by religious dogma when it comes to our situation.
Be careful Steph.
Julia
I have respect for your need to seeking the blessing of scripture.
I hope you get what you are looking for.. if you don't get the blessing however, you have put yourself in a horrible position.
Remember, everything is subject to interpretation..even scripture.
The Bible can be interrupted many different ways. I was a catholic and divorced, I went through counseling with the church. I was told that the laws of the church was made by man. If in my heart, with the feeling of god I wanted to take part in the bread and wine, I should do so.
Your pastor may be the finest person, but remember his interruption of the Bible and his personal feelings will come out. I am telling you talk to your god and do what in your heart.
I am about to face the same problem soon. I have not been to church fully dressed. I set on the front row of church twice a week, I have pierced earnings, french nails, and big C cups that show. At one point in the service we pass the piece by giving almost everyone a big hug, I know the can feel my bra straps or my boobs. To this point nothing has been said, but I am sure they know who I am, "A Female" or a person in transition.
I wish you the best.
Love Kimberly
If you have not looked at this page already maybe there is some information that might be useful to your situation
http://www.tsroadmap.com/mental/spirit.html
MHO? Another roadblock. You already know exactly what your pastor is gonna say. Your thinking that you may be able to change his mind about scripture interpretation is fantasy.
The Old Testament is old. Also it is NOT the bible of Christianity. It's the Jewish Bible. The Old Testament is the wrong place to seek answers about your Christian faith. If you claim to be a Christian, then seek your answers from the words and teachings of Jesus Christ. After all, the Christian religion should be all about the words and teachings of Jesus Christ, right?. The words and teachings of Jesus Christ are in the New Testament. Jesus, you will find when you actually read the New Testament, has nothing at all to say about crossdressing or the transgender issue. Nothing. Zip. Nada. What you WILL find is that Jesus taught a whole lot about love of others (even those we don't particularly like) and the acceptance and forgivness of others. He had a lot of really valuable stuff to say. But sorry, nothing about your going to H**l for being TG. If your God can forgive your mother her hatred, She can find you a place together, I am sure.
S
Last edited by Stephenie S; 12-21-2011 at 04:37 PM.
Honestly, I don't think you owe the pastor any explanation at all. I don't know your particular denomination, but it seems that if you place value in religious doctrines, you're liable to be disappointed in his response. A few churches are accepting of TG and TS members, but they are rare.
I won't tell you what to believe, but will suggest that this is your life and a benevolent god would want you to live a happy and fullfilling existence, regardless of your gender identification or choice of clothing..
I'm not a church-goer or anything of the sort despite having faith. Yet, even I know that various religious type don't like us. However, one of the few times I had gone, I saw a priest do something that makes me think from time to time. He told us about a clay mug he had setting on the pedestal and how his grand daughter had made it for him. Then, he smashed the mug. His words were: "Just as a potter molds and forms the clay, God molds and forms us throughout our lives." Then, he furthered his example by saying that should our burdens break us like the mug he broke, He will be there to help us pick up the pieces and then resume his work with us. Beyond the first sentence, I don't remember the exact way he said it but I definitely remember what he meant with his words and actions.
If this goes badly for you Steph, your therapist will be there to help. I just hope you've planned for the worst because it sounds like you're certainly hoping for the best.
If I don't make changes happen for a better tomorrow, then who will?
This passage is about self-sacrifice in service to God. It has nothing to do with genitalia and nothing to do with gender. Some would argue (including me) that it has nothing to do with marriage or relationships. I can also easily think of a half-dozen ways this scripture can be turned against you - including your needing to sacrifice your desire to transition.
You also said:
"If I get the all clear from my pastor
...
I'm not looking for approval from my pastor"
I would say that you are.
Be careful.
Lea
Wow, I hope this turns out the way that you would like it to. It seems to me that when you bring religion into it, there can be problems.
Dana Ryan
Steph, you sound like you are a young person and you sound like you are in an evangelical type church. If so, the chances are almost zero, that you are going to convince your pastor that being TS (or even CD for that matter) is OK, according to scripture.
The best and only real way to convince anyone, is to first know that you, yourself, are OK with God and then live a life that shows you love God and your fellow human beings. "You shall know them by their fruit."
Many religious people will never be OK, but some people of faith will open their eyes and see that God lives and works in the hearts of a lot more people than they ever realized.
Joni
"Yes, to dance beneath the diamond sky with one hand waving free" Bob Dylan
So, it seems that most posts here view the input of a pastor negatively. "Who is he," we ask, "this holy man? Who is he to question me? I'm transgendered; I've been transgendered since I exited the womb, and that is that. I'll deal with my transgenderism just fine, thank you. You're input is not appreciated."
And yes, I do agree with you all. I don't see a need to get any pastor's blessing, either.
What I don't get is why the very same girls that oppose a pastor's intervention have absolutely no problem with a therapist having a final say in whether one is transgendered or not. In fact, most girls here embrace the idea that all of us need a therapist.
What the heck is the difference? And before you say to yourself "but, a therapist is trained", I'll point out that most priests receive similar training.
It a good question, but there are significant differences. First, no one receives any gender-specific training or clinical exposure without seeking it out. I.e., the counseling training might be similar, but it's irrelevant unless it's topical. Most here would agree, I think, that generic counseling or therapy is dicey at best when it comes to gender issues, which is the reason that specialists exist. Second, a lot of (but not all) training for clerics is specific to religious counseling and/or includes training on approaching certain issues like gender from the "proper" theological point of view.
It's possible to get a trained, unbiased clerical therapist, but I wouldn't bet on it.
Lea
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