Choose it?See my thread in the lounge titled never introduced myself.Bye-Bye,Lisa.
Choose it?See my thread in the lounge titled never introduced myself.Bye-Bye,Lisa.
"you are a strange species and there are many out there;shall I tell you what I find beautiful about you ,you are at your best when things are at their worst" ...[ Starman]
It may of course be a bit disturbing to sense that one is really not so firmly anchored to the gender one was born into.
I have had the feelings for as long as I can remember. I have not always acted on them because of what ever situation I was in, sometimes I would go a year or 2 with out acting on my feelings, but they have always been there... It made for a lot of unhappy days and feeling depressed.
First, for anyone saying "I can't imagine....". I would say, imagine it! For any kind of thought you can have, there is someone like that. I have a friend that falls asleep during electrolysis because she loves the pain so much. Never thought I would see that.
But as one of the many "Late on-set dressers" I will vote for being born this way. I guess I will subscribe to the hibernation theory. Some people feel a desire to do something even if they haven't tried it. Others may not feel a desire, but once they try it....
That's my theory and I am sticking to it.
Most dressers I have met started at an early age (like me) ...I met one in Saugatuck a few yrs back who started after his wife died, he was over 60 yrs old, had never dressed up or even tried on any feminine things in his life before, went to the closet after she had died and had this urge to try on her clothes, I found his story quite different and unique from most other cds I have talked with.
I can remember feeling interested in dressing like a girl as early as 5 years old. I had a friend in kindergarten who had no problem trying on the ladies' clothes in the dress-up area. I remember feeling extremely jealous that he had the guts to that. Even at 5, I knew enough to feel ashamed by these urges. At 39, I'm finally feeling alright with myself, and I'm working up the nerve to share it with others. I can't imagine anyone would "choose" to do this. I think it's still considered socially "outside" enough, that you'd have to be overcome by a pretty strong urge to just decide, "yeah, dressing like a woman would be fun!" Just based on the similarity of stories I've read here, it seems overwhelmingly skewed towards "as long as I can remember."
But, you never know!
My absolute earliest memory is of me laying in my crib watching my mother put on her bra, pantyhose, heels and a dress then apply her makeup and do her hair. I figure I was maybe two or even younger. Even at that age I realized that was what I wanted, and have never stopped wanting it from that day to this. I figure I must have been born to do this.
Crysten
"Addicted to Victoria's Secret".
After reading everyones comments I wanted to add one more thought.
The clothing is a trigger that awakens what is already there lying dormant, born from a unusual sensitivity that is created by something else.
You start to see patterns in everyones threads,posts and comments that transcend our own individuality and unites us and what changes is only to what degree, but it is like seeing a ghost that is only possible from your peripheral vision, once you turn to see it clearly it is gone.
I have known men who hold only masculine energy and as their friend I'm usually a very good complement to them because I balance their behavior (energy) and often keep them safe from themselves. You see these energies balanced in marriage all the time. People look for their opposite energy when they decide to partner up, it is subconscious.
There are those that defend their masculinity and make it clear they are male crossdressers as they should,they live in both worlds comfortably.
There are men that probably would risk death before they would permit someone to dress them in womens clothing seeing this as an act of trying to take something from them and they probably would use words like dignity or self respect to explain it and they are defending what they "feel" themselves to be.
There is also that group of men who "feel" feminine and see it as weakness and are terrirfied of it and react in the extreme by doing those things in society that symbolizes masculinity so no one suspects (discovers their secret) of what they feel. (acting manly instead of being manly, one is a role and the other is a felt energy) When a person plays a role you sense something is'nt quite right because they are acting instead of being.
This energy lives between two extremes yin and yang, feminine and masculine and this duality is interdependant. I think we are born predisposed to our place between these two points but life pulls us out of our natural balance and so we experience conflict until we push back against life to than rediscover what we already were.
There is a state of mind when you do not know what is real or an illusion concerning who you are and I lived this nightmare for many years because I had been so twisted out of my original shape which is for me to the far end of the feminine spectrum of energy (Yin) but once I stopped trying to change myself(act like a man) and accepted my natural state of being I than was able to make better life choices concerning relationships, work, activities, ect .. everything. Identity and energy go hand in hand and the evidence is in our pasts but like tea leaves it is difficult to decipher the meanings
I firmly believe that we are not born this why but grow up this why by other influenced us this is a choice
WHEN IN STRESS WEAR A DRESS
BE HAPPY WITH YOURSELF IT ALL YOU GOT
The earliest memory that I am certain I remember, is from when I was just over 6. I have a small number of other flashes of memories from when I was just over 4, but I do not know if those ones are real or re-created. "Early childhood amnesia" combined with a poor episodic memory. With a small bit of thought I could probably write a book about some things I learned 35 years ago, but please don't ask me what I had for dinner a week ago!
Do I have any memories of dressing when I was very young? No, not a one. My mother tells me I used to get away and run down the street naked when I was a wee kid, but I think it would be big big stretch to say I "attempting to escape from the confines of my male body"
As best I know, I didn't start cross-dressing at all until I was 14 or perhaps 15. And as far as I knew then, it was just trying to get an idea of what it was like to be female, starting from the viewpoint that it was something I was not.
But were there earlier indications of gender non-conformance for me? Yes, in the way I was treated, pushed away by the boys starting no later than grade 1, as I was seen as not being boy enough (I don't think they thought I was a girl; boy outside and who-knows-what inside.)
That may be the case for some, but my medical history gives credence to the possibility that it is deep neurology related for me. (It is known that I do in fact have an unusual neurology and have had since I was young; I was put through a long series of tests as a child.)Originally Posted by Missy
Last edited by sandra-leigh; 01-17-2012 at 01:09 AM.
I have read a few other accounts where a husband started dressing for the first time after their longtime wife dies (professionals say it has to do with their desire to feel close to their lost wives again and carry a part of the wife with them, a way to cope with separation anxiety I suppose.)
That would be ME!
I NEVER even thot about trying on women's things until I was 50. I DID experiment rolling myself up in carpets, etc. when I was young. And, in my 20's began an involved 30 year fetish affair with lite bondage. Maybe some of u can equate bondage with dressing? I don't!.gif "Big Roll Eyes")
And, when I began serious dressing, bondage has been almost forgotten!
I had so many opportunities with my mom and sis's, live in girl friends, and an ex's clothes. It just NEVER occurred to me to try them on! I mean, why would I?
So, how did I start? A pair of abandoned jeans left in an empty rental. I simply wondered if I could get them on! They were VERY tite! But, I got them buttoned and LIKED how they felt!Then, NOTHING for about a year. Maybe your, "Simmering in my subconscious", theory comes into play here! But, NOT before!
And, YES, Tara. It started as a choice. But, after another year of trial and error, I found I COULD appear to be a woman. And then as now, it's no longer a choice!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I definitely go in phases. I love my masculine side and want to hang onto it, but I've come to realize that I have a feminine side too, and she is tired of being ignored all these years. But I have days when I wake up and want to be a guy and there are days where I want to be a girl. These days are completely random, and without warning. I remember waking up one day when I was 14 and hating certain things about being male. I remember wondering if I was born the right gender. I had no desires prior to this, but have had them ever since. I chalked it up due to a phase and as a way to cope with the abuse I was enduring at the hands of my father. But all these years later, even when my life is relatively peachy, I don't feel like I'm 100% male. But at the same token I'm not 100% female either. Hence why I'm so confused about the situation. The best I can think of is that I want to be a girl, but keep most of my male mannerisms. Sorta like a tomboy if you will, but girlier looking. I see myself as one of thosr girls that can hold her own in a mosh pit and drink all the boys under the table, but still has a clear femininity to her. I'm probably not making any sense, since none of it makes sense to me. Which is why I have the bottom phrase in my signature. Lol
"To deny our impulses, is to deny the very thing that makes us human...." - Mouse from The Matrix
Love me or hate me, I will always be myself.
I'm just the kind of gal that likes death metal, beer, and "dad" jokes. Oh and I build computers and play PC games.
I say it all begins at birth for everyone. It gets discovered/recognized at different ages for different reasons for some, that's all. One does not decide to be gay on Friday morning, nor do they decide to express their gender self on Tuesday afternoon because they can. I was born into a pink blanket and have expressed myself ever since as far as I know.
usually starts at an early age. the way you were brought up has a big factor as well. it doesnt just happen.
The main difference that I have seen is whether or not the person derives sexual arousal from dressing up as a female. Some of us do, some of us don't. Other differences are whether they separate themselves into two very different personas, one male, and the other female; allowing the female one behavior and indulging in sexual desires and acts with males that they would never allow for their male side. I've never done that, so I don't know how it feels, or if in extreme cases the person has two entire separate personalities.
On the 'decision to be gay'. Actually, there are some; they are bisexual, and DO decide which lifestyle choice they prefer for either a set amount of time, or perhaps for their entire life. I don't have much contact with gay males, so I can't speak for them. But I have known several gay females, two of which were actively bisexual earlier in their lives, who admitted to later having occasional sexual dalliances with men even though for the most part, by that time in their lives all their relationships were strictly with other females.
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
If I'm reading this correctly, I could not disagree more. It chose US. You can't choose your parents, you can't choose what turns you on, and why would any sane person, given a true choice, choose this? The fact that many of us eventually come to terms with it, make the most of it, even enjoy it and come to treasure it as an important part of who we are, doesn't change the more primary fact that we're just this way by nature, or that our lives could well have been easier and more fulfilling without it.
Disagree. It DOES "just happen". My parents didn't intend this; quite the opposite. My community didn't encourage it; ditto. I tried to talk myself out of it countless times for decades; gave up. I know of one member whose personal childhood history would support the idea of nurture as causation, but hers is a very unusual story and not at all typical.
I think these two accurately describe a grief response, not what the bulk of us experience, and behavioral science has lots of terms to describe it. We need to remember that cross-dressing as a behavior CAN be motivated by something other than TG feelings or gender dysphoria. A psychotic, for example, may actually BELIEVE that he is female, despite obvious evidence. His cross-dressing isn't the same thing. I would put fetishistic dressing, divorced from an internal sense of femaleness, in the same category; it's just a turn-on. I knew a CD who started in his 60s as what appears to be a way to justify finally admitting that he was gay; dressing up made it acceptable to him.
I don't see why not (other than all of society screaming at you that it's wrong...), but that's not the same thing. For most of us, it's a compulsion, not a hobby, regardless of how much time we can devote to it or how skilled we become at it.
Exactly. The best, most completely explanatory theory is anomalous neural connections made in our brains during gestation, most likely due to ill-timed and/or mis-dosed infusions of hormones. Once you grasp the enormous complexity of the human brain and survey the (non-psychotic) categories of gender-variant behaviors, it's the only theory that explains everything from lipstick lesbians to macho gay men to crossdressers.
I'd be inclined to believe that late-onset CDs were better at denial and suppression than some of us could muster...
Last edited by Acastina; 01-18-2012 at 03:46 PM.
I don't think we can say that anything applies to "everyone", especially in this forum. If someone says they did not experience any desire to explore a feminine gender until a later age, why would anyone tell them they were in denial most of their lives? This is like someone who enjoys drinking tremendously, who cannot imagine there are many others who can take it or leave it.
Reine
Like Acastina, I'd have to disagree with this. My parents certainly didn't raise me to crossdress. If they'd known I was doing it, they'd have done anything but encourage it. I don't know of any other explanation but that's just the way I was. Let science explain it some day if it can, but my upbringing was definitely not a factor.
As the one who started the two "late in life" threads that ReineD referenced in a post earlier in this thread, let me say that these questions of why and why now and what does it mean and how far will I need to "go" with it have preoccupied me 24-7 for several months. Because I have gigantic real-world issues of parenting, job switching and moving to deal with, I've made a decision to stop dressing and stop obsessing, at least until I reach a more stable point in my real-life journey.
So I don't know if I will have anything new to offer any time soon. But I can say that I have had access to most of the best medical and psych journal articles through my job over the past few months and it appears that there just isn't much real knowledge about "late onset" CD's and TG's. Was it repression all our lives, or a brain chemistry change in midlife? A sudden drop in testosterone? (I had that one checked -- nope.) Most research lumps late-knowing TG's into the same group as "late-acting" TG's, those who knew forever but didn't acknowledge or dress until late in life.
There is a lot of received wisdom out there. It's believed that it was there from birth and we just didn't know it; that it's permanent and irreversible; that T supplements or shots won't change it; that it might even be an inexorable arc toward total gender change, if we would only admit that to ourselves and others.
None of these things seem to have been proven by anyone anywhere. There's so much that just isn't known. FWIW, here's my self-inventory. Didn't know until age 54. CD'ing was definitely stress induced at that time but has only accelerated since. Never felt I was a girl, but always felt there was something not quite right with me. Always seemed a bit outside the pack, yet was never thought of as anything but male. Never liked the male workout/macho cultures. Not a great body but not a careful, snazzy male dresser -- in fact, never cared how I looked at all until I started buying and wearing women's clothes. With therapist, have explored my youth a lot -- were there hints and signs? Not really. Mom always wanted a girl. (So do most moms.) I have been fairly successful, though in a female dominated profession, but at least as frustrated as I have been successful.
Suddenly -- women's clothes soothe, they calm, they give me confidence and, paradoxically, strength. Have I gone mad? Discovered the "inner female" small to mid-sized portion of my self? Or have I discovered my REAL self is female (this is what the "received wisdom" in the TG world says).
What does it all mean, and what do I do and where do I go? Well, for now, I mostly suspend the exploration to better explore the job market. But right now, and I offer my story in the hope that it might resonate with others, this is a map with no roads and very few landmarks. Where it leads and how I'll know when I reach my destination is as mysterious as ever. But oddly, I feel much better for having explored and read and thought about it so much. I feel that I can go on from a much more stable place, that I can take this brief time off.
If anyone can name any good research on late-onset gender issues that I've somehow missed, please let me know. It's both terrifying and exciting and gratifying to be in the midst of an adventure as mysterious as this one is. Compassion and love to all of you and your SO's...
elizabethamy
I find it hard to believe someone would choose to start crossdressing late in life. The inclination was probably always there, just kept repressed. I had to laugh at your towel story. A towel was basically my dress too, for many years.
Last edited by Donna June; 01-18-2012 at 04:58 PM.
Amazing post Elizabeth!
I've known that there was something different about me my whole life. I was far more in touch with my emotions than even some of the ciswomen in my family. I never fit in with 'guy talk' and my closest friends have always been girls. I always hated the alpha male mentality and never understood it myself. I started dressing in women's undergarments when I was 14. Yes there was sexual gratification in it, but it also felt like I was more in touch with who I really was. I was raised in a strict, abusive, and religious home, so I had to repress that part of me right along with my male attractions if I wanted to survive. I got realky good at repressing myself. So good that it's taken me 12 years to stop the repression. Even then, I had occassional urges in those years and they were very powerful. I'd placate them by making plea bargins with myself. I'd say things like, "well if music doesn't work out for me, I'll l'll live as a woman then." Or "If this ltr with my fiancee doesn't pan out, THEN I'll live as a woman.". Even with those self promises, I still had "relapses" (for want of a better" term. I remember the horrific shame and embarrassment that came with it. I knew I couldn't stop, but I was trying so hard to. I wouldn't let ANYTHING destroy my facade that I'm a regular guy. I think all my life I gave off an aura that told people I wasn't all male, but not all female. Hence why I was bullied and teased all the time by everyone, and always a misfit and loner in school. At any rate, this is in no way, shape, or form something I would wish on anyone, let alone choose. But I'm just so tired of hiding and the shame. Im truth, I've never changed, I just stopped caring about who sees me as I really am. That's the only real choice I've ever made regarding my sexuality and my gender identity.
Last edited by JessicaM1985; 01-18-2012 at 05:41 PM.
"To deny our impulses, is to deny the very thing that makes us human...." - Mouse from The Matrix
Love me or hate me, I will always be myself.
I'm just the kind of gal that likes death metal, beer, and "dad" jokes. Oh and I build computers and play PC games.
Again, I know I don't really fit the definition of OP's "late onset CD'ing," but how would you apply this and the general sense of your post towards me? Am I psychotic, and therefore truly do deserve the name I have on this site? As far as I am aware, I have a vastly different experience in life than most people here, but to emphasize... As far as I am aware. I think it's well known that I don't really ask personal questions.
I'm just having a hard time taking the... what... 15-20ish total examples provided and accepting that as a clear hypothesis/theory just yet.
Maybe I'm just missing, both in my life and in the subtle clues in conversations with every one here, the small, but frequent, similarities that every one but me seems to have and see. Clearly, I must do more research. (*Cough, and pay more attention, cough cough*)
Psh, not only is there virtually no research on the notion of "late onset CD'ers," there's virtually no research on transgenderism at all. Oddly, there's lots of research/knowledge on transvestitism...
I agree partially with your analogy. I take it a step farther and say one cannot decide to be a transgender/cross dresser until they comprehend the phrase or definition of those terms. I was neither transgendered nor bisexual (they happened at the same time) until I had solid definitions of those concepts in my head. Apparently, it never occured to me to wear feminine or female clothes until that point. Also, I am told I never acted "feminine" in the slightest my whole life until 2-3 years ago.
Anyways... I'm getting the feeling that one, I'm not comprehending the full scale of the conversation going on here, and therefore, two, am not able to fully describe my opinions on the topic...
Last edited by GBJoker; 01-18-2012 at 09:18 PM. Reason: Spelling, grammar, etc
Why is it some folks have to project THEIR feelings and experiences to everyone else? OPEN YOUR MINDS GIRLS!
Thank u, Reine! Take it from me. In my 20's and 30's, I wasn't in "denial" about anything! Because I pretty much tried ANYTHING that came into my mind! I was single and lived alone, had lots of free time, and disposable income! Heck, I wouldn't have even had to BUY clothes! Girl friends LEFT personal clothing items at my house often!I don't think we can say that anything applies to "everyone", especially in this forum. If someone says they did not experience any desire to explore a feminine gender until a later age, why would anyone tell them they were in denial most of their lives? This is like someone who enjoys drinking tremendously, who cannot imagine there are many others who can take it or leave it.
If I had had EVEN ONE THOT that trying on ladies things mite be fun, I WOULD HAVE DONE THAT IN A SECOND! Also, I know a few others here with similar experiences!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
Actually, Sherry, I've just read Acastina's post #41, just before my last post.
I think that her summary of the various possible causes is among the best I've ever read in this forum.
Reine
Except for her LAST LINE, I'm inclined to agree with u, Reine!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
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