Thanks... but I'm just as crazy as everyone else lolOriginally Posted by AudreyTN
....the more I read your posts, the more I like you Bree...
Thanks... but I'm just as crazy as everyone else lol
The op said something very interesting....the op said " I don't know how far I want to go with this"
Every time I hear that, it sets off alarm bells...rightly or wrongly...reading follow up posts I have a better understanding of her comments and how she is thinking.....
I think the op is actually well served to be challenged ...she will be challenged a lot more....who cares if we all disagree...it gives the op diverse points of view...
Name calling is counter productive and I tell Kate all the time ..she sets people off and ends up having her voiceof experience misunderstood..thats a shame...
and many people spend too much time here trying to win arguments..sometimes it's totally appropriate, other times not....
But every time winning the point in a message form doesn't buy you even a sip of coffee, an
I hope Kaitlyn Michele didn't get run over by a bus or something. She didn't finish her thought.
Well if my friend Hope is paying $4.00 an item at Goodwill, then she is grossly overpaying. My Goodwill (well actually there are 5 within close proximity to my home) offers these prices:
M-W 1/2 Off Sale
Th-Sa $1.00 Sale
Sun 50 ¢ Sale
As the Price is Right says, "Come on down."
And Hope is right, you have to check each piece over carefully because there are a lot of things with stains, tears, missing button, and so outdated you grandmother would not wear it. BUT there are also many great looking clothes some with tags still on them. Every time I go, there are other ladies standing in line waiting for the doors to open. What I do is grab a cart and go through the racks as fast as possible throwing anything I THINK I might like in my cart. Then when I am finished looking, I then pull my cart off to the side and then inspect each item carefully. I put back on the racks any I don't want. My cart has often been so full they were piled high over the top of the cart and the cart becomes heavy to push (LOL).
But is is a great way to spend a morning having fun. I have also seen more TS in Goodwill's than I have in total over the last 5 plus years. But I do not come up to them or bother them as I am sure they want everyone to perceive them as women.
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
Kaitlyn, I agree 100% that people have the right to challenge what is said, and I'm glad that people did. It helped to put the reigns on me making what may have been a hasty decision. Instead I'm doing what I need to do and that's to find a good gender therapist that I can afford and gettin my toosh in that office. What happens from there is an unknown that will be revealed in the proper time. If there is one identifiable major flaw in me, it's impatience . It's a curse that I'm learning to deal with. I'm glad that I had the sense to post here first instead of running off half cocked. I'm not mad that people said Im not TS. Im mad for name-calling. But I see that issue as settled and want to get the thread on track again.
To those that posted links, resources, and other helpful items, thank you. That is EXACTLY what I had in mind when I posted the thread and it was very helpful.
"To deny our impulses, is to deny the very thing that makes us human...." - Mouse from The Matrix
Love me or hate me, I will always be myself.
I'm just the kind of gal that likes death metal, beer, and "dad" jokes. Oh and I build computers and play PC games.
Well Bree, you are half right.
Here is the point:
The OP gets to define her identity. Not me, not Kate, not you, not anyone else. She will, as we all have had, a disgusting number of disgusting people trying to label her and and insist that she is something that she is not, or not let her be something that she is. But just like no one else gets a vote about YOUR identity (unless you wish to grant that the last guy who called you "sir" has a point?), you don't get a vote on anyone else's. Being TS is not some sort of exclusive club. Being TS does not incur some sort of special status that must be kept away from the uninitiated or malingerers. If someone wants to put that identity on, and try it out and see if it feels, if someone wants to own it - that is their right, because it is THEIR identity - and NO ONE else has any right to define it for them or deny it to them.
Also, (and beside the point) Kate's statement is pretty disgustingly ignorant. Even if we were talking about someone who had transitioned 10 years ago and knew, from hard won experience and soul searching what she wanted (and lets be clear, the OP is just starting out and will likely go through the long journey of discovery most of us did, where our needs and desires changed rather drastically), it would be asinine to tell that woman that she was not a woman because she lacked a part, or a desire for a part, that is absolutely NONE of Kate's business. Kate's assertion that a woman = a vagina is insulting. Or it would be if it were not so belligerently, disgustingly, ignorant. For someone who has supposedly gone through this experience to still be ignorant of the distinction between physical sex, gender identity, and gender presentation seriously calls into question her qualification to speak about trans-anything issues. And you know that.
When serious, legitimate, respected members of this forum, like yourself, support her and defend her, you do nothing but legitimize her and strengthen her ability to do harm to the rest of the members, particularly the new girls.
"I don't mind living in a man's world, as long as I can be a woman in it." — Marilyn Monroe
Can I just say, that what most people do not want to hear is “in your face realism” Kate’s point stands regardless of all arguments to the contrary! How many women want to be sporting a penis? Enjoying and keeping your penis points to someone who may have different motivations than purely transsexual ones! Even the OP has admitted that Katie’s post was helpful, be it unsettling! Personally I would rather someone to tell me the truth than P** up my back and tell me it’s raining. Attacking people for agreeing with Kate’s point is what is unwarranted
K
Born female intended
" Don't die with your music still in you!"
How many woman identify as TS?
No matter how accepting your GG friends may be at the end of the day they know you don't bleed every month, they know you will never get pregnant, they know you were not raised as a girl. yeah we are woman because that is what are brains keep telling us in spite of our bodies and societal conditioning but we aren't GGs. Who cares if the op wants to keep her penis or not? Those arguing that transsexual = desire for vag should take a look at this.
.http://www.genderpsychology.org/tran...njamin_gd.html
The first type of "transsexual" has an undecided gender identity and most likely does not wish to alter his/her body with surgery.
But let's face it even this is BS rife with sexism and a total misunderstanding of the difference between gender identity and sexual orientation and this was written by the guy for whom the standerds of care are named!
To the OP: a therapist is great, be honest and things will fall in to place.
Last edited by Aprilrain; 02-02-2012 at 08:07 AM.
I don't share your confidence in doctors. Even a psych specialist - any type - will be largely or completely ignorant of anything related to gender unless they have taken the time to educate themselves on gender. That may come out of interest or because of patients. Most will never have a trans patient, be involved in gender research, or have ANY topical exposure beyond a few chapters in a text or a lecture or two.That's why these doctors spend 8-16 years in college ON TOP OF the 13 they've already spent in primary education. They're professionals for a reason.
That's not to say that a well trained, responsible, and sensitive therapist, even untrained in gender, can't help. But you start to stack the odds against yourself. Moreover, if YOU aren't armed with some knowledge, you can easily walk into a therapeutic situation that may not be to your benefit (think Anne Lawrence, Keith Ablow, or some religious therapists).
Diagnoses are for access to medications, hormones, and procedures, should one opt to go through gatekeeping via the Standards of Care. They aren't for telling you what you are. At best they are a means of helping you to get yourself there. The key is that while it's true that you can come to a progressive realization of who (or what) you are, most of us can say with certainty what we feel right now. If one doesn't KNOW that they are TS, the shoe doesn't fit for now. It doesn't mean that you might not come to that later, but there is little point in trying to come to such a realization before its time. The therapist's diagnosis, insights, feelings, etc. never, ever substitute for your own inner identity. That one MIGHT eventually realize that they have a deeply surpressed female identity doesn't help much as a practical matter.
Lea
[SIZE="7"]Ahem Sister! [/SIZE] I could not have said it better.
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
Unfortunately, despite her sometimes abrasive manner, Kate is right. She has been there. She has done that. She has an opinion. There is a good deal of truth to her opinion. It's worth thinking about what she says even if you don't agree.
Kate is not here because she needs your support. She is trying to support others. She is blunt. She does not sugar coat anything she says. That doesn't make her mean, just blunt.
Like her or not, that's your right. But think about what she says. There's the voice of experience in there.
S
amen...?
LOL
btw...i would like to ask this question...purely for the benefit of the OP...
For those that chose to live full time as a woman, and also chose to keep your penis.. why? be specific. don't beat around the bush (can't believe i wrote that , but it just came out that way)...
Anybody out there that is young, no relationship or family obligations to consider, has the option to do what they want, has the resources to get surgery, has no fears of surgical procedures or fears of making a mistake and you
ACTIVELY WANT to keep your penis because you truly desire to have one?
Kelsy, you have enough posts to know the type of responses Kate exhales. Being direct is one thing but when the speaker has her own agenda and her own philosophy that "it's may way or the highway" or life as a woman must be based on the "Kate Doctrine," is when her value vanished into thin air. The OP was not just talking aloud to herself. She was sincerely asking for some help. Having a "Shark" respond as she is famous for serves no one other than Kate's ego.
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
Tracy the world population defines someone as male or female by what is between thier legs. It is done from the day we are born. Now I realize gender is in your head but then if we are talking about transition then that is in the eyes of the world. With that said I will ask you a quesiton. Do you feel that someone who lives as a woman in the eyes of the world and has a penis and desires to keep that penis is a woman?
I will let you answer the question. In case your wondering what the rest of the world thinks. They would consider that person a MALE following some desire they probably dont understand.
Women have vaginas and men have penisis and thats what the world cares about. If someone is really TS then they are willing to or want to do whatever they can to have a body that fits thier gender identity in thier head. No I dont bleed and no I cant have a baby but then medicine does not allow me to do that today. If it was possible starting tomarrow I would be first in line to get the upgrade because I am a woman.
"The world" doesn't give a damn whether or not a transsexual has had SRS. Someone who dismisses transsexuality will do so regardless.
The intersection of identity and motivation for or against surgery is ripe for discussion. But there is no dialog with a predefined, dogmatic answer.
Lea
Ugg... I just accidentally closed my browser after typing a long response.... gahhhhhh.... short version:
Hope, Kate doesn't have an agenda. She is here to help just like everyone else. She isn't seriously declaring what other people are, she is challenging them to figure it out for themselves. Kate has every right to share her advice just like you are able to share yours. Kate comes off as harsh, but sometimes that's what people need to balance out all the "roses and butterflies" responses. Just ask all the people she has helped. And please, show me the lives she has destroyed...
I, and many other people here believe the same thing Kate does. If you're physically a male and you DESIRE and WANT to keep your penis, then you're not identifying with the sex opposite your gender... you're not transexual.
Kaitlyn has the same message Kate has... how come you're not jumping all over her? Why not tell her, and me and any other person with an opinion different than yours that we don't have a right to give advice? It's just become a hobby for some of you to jump down Kate's throat.
Lea, there are many situations that can hold you back from being a woman if you do not have SRS. It depends on where you live, what the laws are, and how you live your life. I don't know about you, but I don't plan on identifying as a transexual for the rest of my life.
The world does give a damm my dear. With rare exceptions you cannot get your paperwork changed till after SRS. Just a wild guess here but I would think that getting a job with a M on your id and looking like a female is harder than having your paperwork in place. Just another wild guess and that is it would be terribly difficult to find a meaningful relationship presenting a woman but having a penis. Hell its very hard for a post-op girl but god its got to be really hard with mismatched parts. Another wild guess, I would say its probably a lot harder to present a woman and be challenged about your gender and not have the parts to back up what you claim to be.
Just a wild guess here but I suspect that years and years of living life as a woman but having a penis takes it toll on the mental well being of a real TS woman.
These are just guesses. What do I know I am just a girl.
As far as Hope goes. Look some people are missing marbles and others are missing a lot of marbles.
I agree with a lot you say in threads but not this time. I have seen you do the same thing many times Bree as it relates to our Ms. Kate. Surely you are not implying that I want a penis? Inside of me yes but my own...yuck....that's disgusting!
But I still take issue with anyone saying that if you have a penis then you are not TS or a woman OR if you are medically unable to have it converted because of real health issues, age and survivability that you are not a TS or a woman. That is just biased uninformed rhetoric of some.
As some have said it already but it really is none of our business what someone has between their legs or where they think they fit on the gender spectrum. That is 100% their business and decision. And we don't have the right to tell someone that if they don't want their penis converted to a vagina then then they are MALES!
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
That's the thing... you guys keep using that defense... but I never said that... and Kate has constantly stated that it is the desire to have SRS, not actually having it, that means you're TS. Why do people keep going back to that? It's like you WANT to fight... of course having SRS isn't a requirement for being transexual...
May the Peace be with you!
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
Don't give me that religious garbage!
And also with you :P
While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.
Bree
Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal what they should be like.
Last edited by kellycan27; 02-02-2012 at 03:27 PM.
Well I am religious, very much so. We each can make our own choices in that arena.
The one thing you are right about is that this topic of "penis vs vagina = woman" will go on way after you and I are gone. We get in these clashes when we try to help someone and up from the Abyss comes this the voice that "You want to hold on to your penis, well then you are NOT TS and certainly not a woman and never will be. That's the way to help someone struggling with their identity and asking for help? I say NOT - end of story.
Just call Me: "W - O - M - A - N"
As King said: "I'm free at last, I'm free at last.
Thank God Almighty I'm free at last!"
Thats not what she said a few days ago. She said she is here because it entertains her.
Maybe they would not jump down her throat if she would stop insulting people.
While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.
Bree
Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal of a super race, or in this case.. super woman
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