Unsure of where to go now....

[Bree-asaurus]

While Kate may be right now and then I for one am under no illusion that she is here to be either helpful or supportive. She's said it herself on numerous occasions that she's here for the "entertainment" value. She is constantly saying things that she knows will incite people, and then sits back to watch the fur fly and she's probably laughing at you while it happens. Kate doesn't care about you or your opinions... she only cares about her own, and you can bet your sweet butt that the first time you disagree with her, she'll turn on you too. I see Kate as a nasty and bitter person, who isn't happy unless she's bringing down others to her level of unhappiness. I have been on a number of different forums where this type of behavior would be considered "trolling" Purposely saying inflammatory things to get a reaction. For those of you who fall for her antics under the guise of being "helpful and supportive", I have a bridge in Brooklyn that I'd like to sell you.....cheap.

Bree

Kate has a hobby of jumping down other people people's throats so wouldn't you say that turnabout is fair play? Or are you so enamored with her rhetoric that you are one the "can't see the forest for the trees" type? Hitler wasn't really a bad guy, he just wanted to help his people by eliminating the people he saw as inferior to himself and his ideal what they should be like.

Of course Kate has a habit of being a blunt bitch. I said that myself lol.

And I've had issues with Kate... that's for sure. And I still have issues with some of the things she says. Don't confuse me for some kind of cultist Kate follower. I don't know her, we're not friends. And if she "turns on me" I will debate with her the way I debate with others, and the way I have debated with her in the past. But I have known people like her in real life so I don't believe she's here entirely for shits and giggles. And if she is, it doesn't make any difference because I still see her bluntness to be important regardless of her intentions.

She has said things I don't agree with in the past, and when she says them again, I'll be here to disagree.

I don't agree with anyone here 100%, and while there are certain people I look up to, I will never side with someone because I'm "enamored" with them.

I like how you're now attacking me with THAT BS simply because Kate and I agree on a couple things. Yes... I must be crazy for agreeing with Kate. So is everyone else who agrees with Kate on any issue.

[LeaP]

The world does give a damm my dear. With rare exceptions you cannot get your paperwork changed ...

I'm not minimizing the importance of the bureaucratic bs, but it's not a psychological identity issue (the topic) and somehow the majority of the TS population - which I believe is non-op or pre-op - deals.

My comment about the world not caring was in reference to the general public's attitude.

Lea

[Katesback]

first of all it is true I am here for the entertainment value. I have said it before and today I say it again. I used to care, I used to try to help people but if there is one thing I learned is that for the most part trans people dont listen or hear anything but what they want to hear. A simple case in point and perhaps why I find it so entertaining is that several times in JUST THIS POST people have gathered I am others said that if you have a penis your not TS. LOL I NEVER said that. So yes I sit here laughing.

Also I find it entertaining to call people on the BS that is all to often here. I am sorry but not long ago someone posted about thier FFS. The girl was sitting at her HOME less than a week after the so called FFS with some tape on her face. I and all those that had FFS laughed but to my suprise I saw a bunch of people writting to tell him/her how great they looked and all.

I have to ask you people. Is it REALLY supportive when you tell someone they look good when they dont? Is it really supportive to tell someone that after 15 years of therapy and still on the fence about being TS that they will figure it out? No that person needs thier ass beat and needs to make a freaking decision one way or the other.

I would suggest to you that support comes in a variety of forms. Some of us just dont have the patience to play the tranny games. For that I actually am supportive here. If you dont agree with me thats fine. I am keenly aware that a precious few are really serious and even less get SRS. If your happy hanging out with trans people that tell you your doing great when your not. If your happy to talk about a perfect world hey this is you place.

So once again. You dont like what I say thats fine. I really dont care. You not my friend, I really dont care what you think of me. If you want to be a woman/man with a penis, hey knock your self out. I really dont care but if you with the perpetual penis think your going to be like me, or Katlyn, Stephanie, or a few others that have walked the walk your smoking crack.

Thats not what she said a few days ago. She said she is here because it entertains her.



Maybe they would not jump down her throat if she would stop insulting people.

[Bree-asaurus]

first of all it is true I am here for the entertainment value. [...] I really dont care. You not my friend, I really dont care what you think of me.

There Kellycan, you're right on a couple counts... but my opinion is still the same lol :P

[kellycan27]

Of course Kate has a habit of being a blunt bitch. I said that myself lol.

And I've had issues with Kate... that's for sure. And I still have issues with some of the things she says. Don't confuse me for some kind of cultist Kate follower. I don't know her, we're not friends. And if she "turns on me" I will debate with her the way I debate with others, and the way I have debated with her in the past. But I have known people like her in real life so I don't believe she's here entirely for shits and giggles. And if she is, it doesn't make any difference because I still see her bluntness to be important regardless of her intentions.

She has said things I don't agree with in the past, and when she says them again, I'll be here to disagree.

I don't agree with anyone here 100%, and while there are certain people I look up to, I will never side with someone because I'm "enamored" with them.

I like how you're now attacking me with THAT BS simply because Kate and I agree on a couple things. Yes... I must be crazy for agreeing with Kate. So is everyone else who agrees with Kate on any issue.

How did I attack you? I asked a question. i didn't make any accusations??? I asked. you answered. Geez, does a building have to fall on some people? I repeat.. Kate herself has stated on more than a few occasions that she's "only" here for the entertainment value. Even crazy people have a moment when they are lucid.. does that make them any less crazy? Kate is looking down her nose at you people, and you give her props for saying you are less than she. You crack me up. Now I am laughing.

[Katesback]

One of the most entertaining things about some of the people here is they take serious offense to what I say. Take for example on of the girls here that will nearly always write a damms book in her responses when she disagrees with something someone says. The irony is that if they are upset at what someone says on the internet then how preparred for the real world are you? I mean seriously. If I recall a thick skin is one of those things that a TS really needs. So theres some more support I am offering.

Another entertaining thing is how many of people here will take serious disagreement with something someone who is an expert says. You know I am not a car saleswoman. I would not begin to assume I know what its like to be a car salesman. So for you the person who has yet to have SRS to disagree with me when i say transition really begines after SRS is absurd. It provides laughter because I know what is real because I lived it. You have not so if you disagree with those words it tends to make you look like a fool.

Yes I am here for entertainment. I mean what do I have to walk away with from here? Really? On the other hand I do enjoy watching people evolve and grow. I do get to see it with new girls in rollerderby and I infrequently see it here. An example is one of our girls recently got FFS. I talk to her on the phone shes real, she has my respect, and I have seen her grow. I know she will eventually walk away from the trans community because shes a real girl. That makes me proud. I feel good because I was there to help her in some small way.

So yes I do help people on occasion. Those that are serious.

Katie

[Bree-asaurus]

How did I attack you? I asked a question. i didn't make any accusations??? I asked. you answered. Geez, does a building have to fall on some people? I repeat.. Kate herself has stated on more than a few occasions that she's "only" here for the entertainment value. Even crazy people have a moment when they are lucid.. does that make them any less crazy? Kate is looking down her nose at you people, and you give her props for saying you are less than she. You crack me up. Now I am laughing.

LOL... yes, you did ask me... a very stupid question... asking me if I followed Kate like a Nazi followed Hitler. Let me ask you a question? Are you friggin nuts?

But now you ARE accusing me of saying I am less than her... I don't recall saying that anywhere. I have said that I agree with her opinion stated in this thread, and I do like that her bluntness balances out a lot of the happy-go-lucky responses. OMG I AM PUTTING HER ON A PEDESTAL LOL

Anyway, this has gotten even more ridiculous than it already was.

Forgive me for sharing an opinion... jesus.

[kellycan27]

LOL... yes, you did ask me... a very stupid question... asking me if I followed Kate like a Nazi followed Hitler. Let me ask you a question? Are you friggin nuts?

But now you ARE accusing me of saying I am less than her... I don't recall saying that anywhere. I have said that I agree with her opinion stated in this thread, and I do like that her bluntness balances out a lot of the happy-go-lucky responses. OMG I AM PUTTING HER ON A PEDESTAL LOL

Anyway, this has gotten even more ridiculous than it already was.

Forgive me for sharing an opinion... jesus.

I never asked or implied that you followed kate in the same fashion as people followed Hitler... It was an anology. Nor did I say that you said said you were less than her. What I did say is that she implies it and people give her props for saying it. We might be able to have a better dialog if you read the words as written instead of trying to read between the lines. am I friggin nuts? Stupid questions? I never attacked you in any way shape or form. You are welcome to your opinion as am I .. You see her as spewing some kind of tough love for the good of all.. I see her as spitting in the face of those who are not just like her.... She's probably sitting back right now laughing at you, not me. I've been there and got the t-shirt, and i am livin it. her BS means nothing to me and believe it or not if you could put your ego aside for a moment you might just see that I am not against you.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Still no votes for I'm a woman and I want to keep my penis?

This was mentioned by the original poster and she did a great job of clarifying her initial comments, which were basically an open ended question..

Being transsexual is totally independent of what's between your legs...

Political correctness means nothing in the day to day world... We all live in the day to day world...there is no law that says a ts woman needsnto get srs and Kates or she will fail in life..

But my feeling is that a ts woman rarely if ever actively wants to live with a penis unless OTHER FACTORS are the driving force and sometimes other factors can't be avoided... Women don't want men's body parts

the experience of your body conforming to your gender is vastly superior both from an internal and external perspective....it's just the way it is...

Folks that thrive without srs are a testament to what a good attitude and lots of self esteem can do...but it's not optimal for a woman's life and it's not likely an aspiration for young women that are transsexual..

[Bree-asaurus]

I never asked or implied that you followed kate in the same fashion as people followed Hitler... It was an anology.

What do you think an analogy is?

Nor did I say that you said said you were less than her. What I did say is that she implies it and people give her props for saying it.

There was no implying... you said "you give her props for saying you are less than she"

We might be able to have a better dialog if you read the words as written instead of trying to read between the lines.

Nope, I'm reading your words. When I assumed there was some level of caring behind Kate's posts despite her saying it was all for her entertainment was reading between the lines.

am I friggin nuts? Stupid questions? I never attacked you in any way shape or form. You are welcome to your opinion as am I.

If I'm so welcome to my opinion, why did you feel the need to join this thread simply to question if my opinion was the result of blindly following Kate?

You see her as spewing some kind of tough love for the good of all.. I see her as spitting in the face of those who are not just like her.... She's probably sitting back right now laughing at you, not me. I've been there and got the t-shirt, and i am livin it.

You're exaggerating. Regardless of the fact that I thought there was some caring behind her words, I already stated that despite her intentions, I think what she sometimes brings to the table is warranted. I care not of what she thinks of me.... Hold on... I have to go cry for a second because Kate does not love me... OKAY I'm back. I'll bottle up my feelings of rejection for now

her BS means nothing to me and believe it or not if you could put your ego aside for a moment you might just see that I am not against you.

Then the point of your posts was...



AND....

Still no votes for I'm a woman and I want to keep my penis?

This was mentioned by the original poster and she did a great job of clarifying her initial comments, which were basically an open ended question..

Being transsexual is totally independent of what's between your legs...

Political correctness means nothing in the day to day world... We all live in the day to day world...there is no law that says a ts woman needsnto get srs and Kates or she will fail in life..

But my feeling is that a ts woman rarely if ever actively wants to live with a penis unless OTHER FACTORS are the driving force and sometimes other factors can't be avoided... Women don't want men's body parts

the experience of your body conforming to your gender is vastly superior both from an internal and external perspective....it's just the way it is...

Folks that thrive without srs are a testament to what a good attitude and lots of self esteem can do...but it's not optimal for a woman's life and it's not likely an aspiration for young women that are transsexual..

Careful... if you have the same opinion as Kate, they're going to hang you for it...

[kellycan27]

That is just a bold face lie. As a matter of fact the only person who has asked to "contact" me was you. You wanted me to call you so that you could explain "better" some of the poison that you spew here. and my reply was.. no, I would rather discuss it in open forum for all to see. You have reached a new low Kate even for you by telling lies and trying to cast doubt on me. I guess I must have hit a nerve.

[arbon]

I just thought I would point that out.

Right, the real girls that sit around pointing out who's a serious tranny worthy of their support and help, who's not, who's a fake, who needs their asses kicked, laughing at the fruitcakes.... while hanging out on a crossdressers forum.

Sounds like a fun club.


unreal

[Jorja]

And all this BS is helping Jessica, how?

[Melody Moore]

And all this BS is helping Jessica, how?

That is what I was thinking, however now she will get to know the real truth about the transsexual community &
how some post operative women like to wear their SRS as an elitist rank that gives them the right to talk down
and belittle others who are in need of support and are trying to find themselves. Kate is definitely not the first
armchair commando that I have come across who is like this. Those who I have meet turn to water when they had
to deal with me face to face in the real world because they don't have the same type of security provided to them
sitting behind a keyboard and a computer screen. So I have to really wonder how much entertainment value Kate
really would find in this subject if this conversation was taking place in the real world? So never feed the trolls!

I said in one of my first posts to the OP that the best advice at this point of time
was to see a therapist, and anything else in the meantime is just "useless noise".

[JessicaM1985]

*sits back munching popcorn and drinking soda*

You know, I feel partly responsible in all this, but this is just too much. I just wanted some resources. If you want to help, stop giving opinions and start posting some links. That's all I wanted. I'm brand new to the community and already I feel jaded. If I had a lower sense of self esteem, I might have believed that all I was was a random ******* destined for the porn industry because apparently that's what non-op transsexuals are seen as right? Nevermind that I have a male SO that I love and would not be able to continur having a relationship with if I got my thing hacked off. Nevermind that I want to have children, naturrally, and am willing to put up with the internal and external hate to have a baby any way that I can. The day that my man tells me he doesn't care coupled with the day they find a way to allow transgenders to give birth will be the day I'm ready to have srs. Until then I really have no choice but to suck it up.

Judge as you see fit. I've made my choice and since non-op transsexual is a taboo term which incites pointless flame wars, I will identify as transgendered on these forums. Everybody a happy camper now?

[Bree-asaurus]

*sits back munching popcorn and drinking soda*

You know, I feel partly responsible in all this, but this is just too much. I just wanted some resources. If you want to help, stop giving opinions and start posting some links. That's all I wanted. I'm brand new to the community and already I feel jaded. If I had a lower sense of self esteem, I might have believed that all I was was a random ******* destined for the porn self esteem because apparently that's what non-op transsexuals are seen as right? Nevermind that I have a male SO that I love and would not be able to continur having a relationship with if I got my thing hacked off. Nevermind that I want to have children, naturrally, and am willing to put up with the internal and external hate to have a baby any way that I can. The day that my man tells me he doesn't care coupled with the day they find a way to allow transgenders to give birth will be the day I'm ready to have srs. Until then I really have no choice but to suck it up.

Judge as you see fit. I've made my choice and since non-op transsexual is a taboo term which incites pointless flame wars, I will identify as transgendered on these forums. Everybody a happy camper now?

LOL You didn't do anything wrong. There are huge rifts in this community and with such sensitive topics, it's all too easy for people to misunderstand others, get offended or spread their own personal agenda.

If you stick around, you'll see that a couple threads a week will turn into this kind of war...

[Melody Moore]

Jessica, I agree with Bree, you did nothing wrong and if you identify as a non-op transsexual and also reject
the '*******' demeaning & derogatory labels others have tried to apply to you, then that is your human right.

[Danni Bear]

If I could inject a bit of civility and temperance into this conversation.

A person who opts to retain their origional equipment, be it a penis or a vagina in the case of our FTM brothers does not make them more or less TS. There are myriad reasons for this and really it is none of our business. Being pre-op, non-op or post-op is not a requirment to be TS. A TS knows whether they are male or female others opinions don't matter.

I realize that when these type of issues arise that tempers and egos get involved. This does not and never will help anyone. Anyone with even a half of a brain can see this. Do you really want to help or are you interested in promoting an agenda. Yes, as a community we have problems, discourses like this have a detrimental effect on everyone. Opiniones and beliefs matter but need to be used judically.

Attacking each other is counter-productive and causes the poster to abandon their search. Even when the abandoment is temporary they lose hope and suffer. Try and remember when you first started on this journey,did you have all the answers? I didn't and I started long before many of you were even born. I still don't have the answers to all my questions and concerns.

Kate, entertainment is fine but not at the expense of someone else, that is cruelty. Would you like it if you were on the recieving end? I can understand your position on many things you post on but that doesn't make it right or necessary. Honest and considered answers are what those who are following your trail need not scarsasm and belittlement. This life is hard enough without we ourselves putting obstacles in the path.


Danni Bear

[taís]

Jess dear <3
unfortunately I don't have resources or experience to share with you. but let me tell you this: you need to put some viking metal in you mix! as a metal grrl you have the power to morph epic riffs and fat hooky choruses into limpid life power... go there and drain 'em! I prescribe you 1 Korpiklaani, 2 Amon Amarth and 1/2 Tyr everyday, until results are shown. you'll feel energized, powerful and prepared to battle your way into being more and more united with yourself and how you present yourself in this world. go and conquer!

;***

[SIZE="1"]ps: therapists are great scouts on the battlefield ^ ^[/SIZE]

[JessicaM1985]

I agree melody and thank you. I'm kinda meh at this point because I can't think of a guy that wants to alter their body with hrt and in other ways with the exception of srs because of a desire to want to have children. I would call that transsexual. Like I said, if they come up with a way that I can get pregnant with my own baby, I'll cut it off myself if need be. (relax, figure of speech) Until then, I put up with it's existence and know that there's,a life,of,hell that goes with it. Children of my own are more important to me than being mommy with daddy bits. If I have kids and am sure I don't want more, then to the guillotine it goes.

Slightly off-topic, but anyone noticed the irony in the fact that each time Bree posted her signature popped up and yet people kept arguing? I'm rolling in my chair at this observation here.

And Tais, I love all three of those bands, especially Amon Amarth. Though I find it amazingly ironic to listen to songs of blood and war while painting my toenails and asking for peace.

[Bree-asaurus]

I agree melody and thank you. I'm kinda meh at this point because I can't think of a guy that wants to alter their body with hrt and in other ways with the exception of srs because of a desire to want to have children. I would call that transsexual. Like I said, if they come up with a way that I can get pregnant with my own baby, I'll cut it off myself if need be. (relax, figure of speech) Until then, I put up with it's existence and know that there's,a life,of,hell that goes with it. Children of my own are more important to me than being mommy with daddy bits. If I have kids and am sure I don't want more, then to the guillotine it goes.

Slightly off-topic, but anyone noticed the irony in the fact that each time Bree posted her signature popped up and yet people kept arguing? I'm rolling in my chair at this observation here.

And Tais, I love all three of those bands, especially Amon Amarth. Though I find it amazingly ironic to listen to songs of blood and war while painting my toenails and asking for peace.

Yeah, the answer to that is "no." No we can't all get along... lol

[Stephanie-L]

Having recently been on the receiving end of a Kate Flaming (TM), I do understand the OP's feelings a bit. Let me say this, Some of the things that Kate said to me were right (OMG, I don't belive I said it), but she said them in such a negative and derogatory manner that I instantly closed down. It was only after several other of the fine folks here posted similar things in a less accusative manner that I was able to absorb the advice. Kate is a bigot, anybody who is TS but not like her, is not TS in her eyes, so you just need to filter her through that lens. If Kate wants to help others, though she has said she does not, then perhaps she will consider this, or perhaps she is a troll, just here to stir trouble for her own amusement.
Jessica, several have said to go get counselling, trans specific if you can find it, anything if you can't. One piece of advice, stay away from religous based counselors, they will try to "cure" and pray away the evil in you. You are in college, they probably have a mental health person for free or low cost sessions, and if there is a medical school you can see a variety of psychiatric/psychology residents/students.
There are really very few times when the label truely matters, unfortunately one is if you do decide you want SRS. You do not know if you want that yet, you may, you may not. Eventually you will work it out, you are young, but don't feel rushed, I am much older than you and just starting to make some headway myself. I know of several older TS on this forum and others, some who had SRS much later in life even than me. Do not let the label bit worry you now, you will eventually know, not all TS are the same, and not all started out young, some were much better at repression than others.
Good luck, and please let us know how you are doing..............Stephanie

[Katesback]

No actually Kelly I am not telling a lie. The girls I have talked to mention that they feel your a fake. They point out that they dont know you, have not talked to you, dont know anybody who ever has talked to you or seen you. This is what they tell me. I am NOT lieing. Conversly speaking I want to be clear here and say I really have no idea if your fake or not. But then I have never talked to you and I have seen the pictures you put up here and they sure look like photoshop jobs. I will say that.

Perhaps we should ask the other people. Has anyone here EVER talked to on the phone, skype, in person. Kelly? Does anyone have any evidence that she actually is real?

For me I will put forth Katlyn who has actually met me, and Stephanie S who I talk to, and whoooo else. Oh yea Zunie. Oh and some have seen me or met me several years ago at SCC. Has anyone ever met you?

Katie

That is just a bold face lie. As a matter of fact the only person who has asked to "contact" me was you. You wanted me to call you so that you could explain "better" some of the poison that you spew here. and my reply was.. no, I would rather discuss it in open forum for all to see. You have reached a new low Kate even for you by telling lies and trying to cast doubt on me. I guess I must have hit a nerve.

[Bree-asaurus]

No actually Kelly I am not telling a lie. The girls I have talked to mention that they feel your a fake. They point out that they dont know you, have not talked to you, dont know anybody who ever has talked to you or seen you. This is what they tell me. I am NOT lieing. Conversly speaking I want to be clear here and say I really have no idea if your fake or not. But then I have never talked to you and I have seen the pictures you put up here and they sure look like photoshop jobs. I will say that.

Perhaps we should ask the other people. Has anyone here EVER talked to on the phone, skype, in person. Kelly? Does anyone have any evidence that she actually is real?

For me I will put forth Katlyn who has actually met me, and Stephanie S who I talk to, and whoooo else. Oh yea Zunie. Oh and some have seen me or met me several years ago at SCC. Has anyone ever met you?

Katie

I'm not taking sides nor getting into this... I just had to say it though... maybe we should start a new thread called "Can the REAL KellyCan please stand up?" Sorry! I had to! :P

Purely a joke, Kelly please don't be offended lol

On another note... I wish I could meet some of the people here... that would be sooo cool. There are a few girls here who I really look up to, who have seriously helped me in times of need. Sounds silly seeing as I've never met them or anything... but it would be cool if I could.

EDIT: And I think this is the 5th or 6th topic this thread has switched too since the beginning lol...

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Melissa
To be honest some of us really have went through a lot of crap, and there is a lot of bitterness and loss to work through,,,you would be well served to take note..it truly can be part of the deal...websites and resources help a lot, but nothing compares to experience... helping people locally I am often awed by the amount of crap heaped on transsexuals...and in the end,our choice is deal with it and overcome up...or else.

This is why that cutting through the bs is so important..

Hope u enjoyed the popcorn..