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Thread: validation and being seen

  1. #1
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    validation and being seen

    In another thread, posters were talking about 'validation' as a reason why we feel the need to go out while dressed.

    My daughter, a philosophy student, has been going on about sound not really existing unless someone is there to hear it and light not really having a colour until it's inside our eyes etc. - so:

    If I'm alone in my house and I get dressed up, am I actually cross-dressed? I might just as well be stark naked or dressed as a chicken for all the difference it makes. Couldn't one argue that we're never actually cross-dressed unless there's someone there to see it?

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    Is this like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it really make a noise?

    Maybe with a mirror all we need is ourselves for validation? I know that I'm cross-dressed, I'm the one in a dress.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGreen View Post
    Is this like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it really make a noise?
    Yeah. Sorry for trying to be profound. It made sense to me...

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    New Member LeggyBecky's Avatar
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    There is another person in the room. The male me watches the female me and likes what he sees.

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    Aspiring Member Kristy_K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGreen View Post
    Is this like if a tree falls in the forest and no one is around, does it really make a noise?

    Maybe with a mirror all we need is ourselves for validation? I know that I'm cross-dressed, I'm the one in a dress.
    Make sense to me .

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    Interesting that there is such a range of dressing to one degree or another that changes over time and that the predominant progression is from in to out, not the other way around.
    Last edited by Gianna; 02-02-2012 at 07:19 AM.

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    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    Hmm, It's all in the eye of the beholder if there is one. We don't all see things the same way in any case. Someone may see all of us as what the blue natives looked like on the movie Avatar. It's all relative my friend.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

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    Let’s twist the “If a tree falls in the woods...” question around a bit, shall we?

    If a man dresses in women’s clothing and nobody is there to see him, does he feel the silk panties?

    Of course he does, just as the tree feels itself fall. Each being has a unique perspective of the events and the mere fact of nobody else witnessing the events does not negate the occurrence of the events.

    You are the witness of your own existence and you exist for yourself. Even if you lived your entire life having no contact with any human beings you would still exist. The exterior world does not validate or solidify our lives.

    I could bake up a sweet little Zen cupcake frosted with strawberry Dao and Confucius sprinkles, but just the thought of cupcakes makes my want to wear pink silk panties with lace trim and eat cupcakes, but I’m trying to lose weight so I’ll cease waxing philosophic now.

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    Well fair do's - I'm obviously on a losing wicket here. All I know is that when I'm dressed on my own, after a few hours of getting on with my day I can literally forget I'm dressed up and, if I have nothing I need to do, I can get just as bored as when I'm not dressed. On the (rare) occasions I've spent time dressed while my wife is there, I have remained acutely aware of my appearance the whole time, even when she's pretending she can't see it.

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    I'd suggest your daughter seek a different major. Sound exists when any action causes vibration in a substance gas/liquid or solid. I don't hear a dog whistle, but it still makes a sound. Whether sound is heard or not is entirely irrelevant.

    As for my dressing, if I dressed in a chicken suit and no one saw me, I'd still be in a chicken suit, and to that extent be closer to my poultry self that if I were not. Yes, I feel somewhat validated when I can be in the company of others while dressed. That, akin to hearing a sound, is just my response to a stimulus.

  11. #11
    My Ship has sailed? Barbara Ella's Avatar
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    Oh the things Philosophy students will talk about just to talk about. She needs to get into some Sartre to really bend her mind.

    I think therefore I am - or something like that. Point is that I believe that. My thought makes (validates) me. Therefore if I think (evaluate my dressing), therefore I am.


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    - Friedrich Nietzche -
    I may never get to fly like the other girls, but I do so want to dance, so I continue to climb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jaglover View Post
    Well fair do's - I'm obviously on a losing wicket here. All I know is that when I'm dressed on my own, after a few hours of getting on with my day I can literally forget I'm dressed up and, if I have nothing I need to do, I can get just as bored as when I'm not dressed. On the (rare) occasions I've spent time dressed while my wife is there, I have remained acutely aware of my appearance the whole time, even when she's pretending she can't see it.
    You forget you're dressed in female attire because, and I even do this, most people are poor observers and become easily bored with things quickly after the newness has worn off a bit. The presence of your wife has nothing to do with validating your state of dress, it's her REACTIONS that keep you acutely aware of your state of dress. Does her presence keep you acutely aware of how you're dressed in drab and validate your existance as a male?

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    Quote Originally Posted by moondog View Post
    Does her presence keep you acutely aware of how you're dressed in drab and validate your existance as a male?
    Er, yes actually. And not always in a good way.

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    Senior Member Sheila11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baby Steps View Post
    Oh the things Philosophy students will talk about just to talk about. She needs to get into some Sartre to really bend her mind.

    I think therefore I am - or something like that. Point is that I believe that. My thought makes (validates) me. Therefore if I think (evaluate my dressing), therefore I am.


    Babes
    Dropped Philosophy 101 in college as a freshman because I could not get my mind around the sillyness. Had to go back as a Sr and take it to graduate. I had learned how to get through the nonsense by then.

    Trees go boom. I Crossdress.

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    OK I have a question for "the Doctor"
    If the Cow did not die, would it have had a calf?
    Inquiring minds need to know.
    Rader

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    Member Ava Tryptyk's Avatar
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    I'm not much of a philosopher, but you don't need other people to see you. Just look in the mirror, take a picture (or even better, a video) of yourself while dressed and there shouldn't be any lack of validation as to whether you're crossdressing.
    Back on the forums! But still very much closeted.

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    The theory of there being no sound if a tree falls and no one is there to hear it really isn't philosophy (totally). We hear nothing if vibrations don't bounce off our eardrums. Therefore if there is no one there then there is NO sound b/c there are no eardrums for the vibrations to hit and create noise.

    Therefore, since you are there too see yourself dressed then you are validate.

  18. #18
    Michelle xoxox FeminineFantasy's Avatar
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    Talking

    When I was at the park yesterday taking pictures of myself, there was this guy sitting on a picnic table watching me. He watched me until I was done. It was actually really fun. He was totally interested and when I would move around he would adjust his view on the table to keep me in view. It was really validating. In a voyeur kind of way. It was hot I deffy had fun and was more feminine because of it
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    One more thought I'd like to add on "validating" aspect of being out. Its not the mere presence of other people that I enjoy - it is actually interacting on a personal level. If in that interaction, I get a positive, friendly response, then the experience is definately validating. Its not that I've pased, but rather that I've been able to connect on a person-to-person basis. I definately feel more "real" after such an experience.

  20. #20
    Michelle xoxox FeminineFantasy's Avatar
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    I agree, I get the most satisfaction and validation when I interact with other people and receive a positive response. A smile, conversation, or a compliment. It really goes a long way with me. Makes me feel really good!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    One more thought I'd like to add on "validating" aspect of being out. Its not the mere presence of other people that I enjoy - it is actually interacting on a personal level. If in that interaction, I get a positive, friendly response, then the experience is definately validating. Its not that I've pased, but rather that I've been able to connect on a person-to-person basis. I definately feel more "real" after such an experience.

  21. #21
    Member jenniferj's Avatar
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    Ok - since I should be working (from home), can't get into it this morning...

    1. Karren, I'm disappointed in you. I expected a smart-tushie comment, but since you dropped the ball...

    Bill Cosby on one of his early comedy albums (yes, on vinyl) told the story of his girlfriend who was a philosophy major. She asked the question "Why is there air?" He - Phys Ed. major- responded "Shee - everybody knows that. Air if for filling volleyballs..." (in those days you couldn't say the "brown word" even on records)

    2. If we define sound as the physical pressure waves transmitted through the air caused by the vibrations of the falling tree and impacted ground, of course it is there whether someone is present to hear it or not. Certainly the birds in the falling tree heard it.

    3. If we define sound as the intellectual recognition process within one's brain of "oh those pressure waves are telling me a tree has fallen", then there is no sound unless some is there to experience it.

    4. Why do we hear the Deathstar explode? There is no air to carry the sound...

    5. But back to point, humans are social animals. We want to be loved and accepted. We want to be accepted and welcomed for what we are. We want others to smile when they see us. We want to know that we're OK, even though we fear we might not be.

    I certainly don't come close to passing (I'm huge, and old, and still walk like a aging college football player) but I do dress well. I am sure that 90% of the people walking down Broadway (NYC) don't even notice me. I hear occasional catcalls, but I also receive smiles from other women. Women have struck up conversations on the subway ("I love your top - wherever did you get it") and have adjusted my bra straps in the ladies' room at the opera. A young mother pushing a stroller with her baby in a parking lot once returned my smile with the warmest, most wonderful smile I have ever seen.

    And once as the opera crowd was dispersing, I stood in my box in my long, sleek gown and stretched my back and torso ( I fear I had gone overboard on the corset which had become quite uncomfortable in the closing aria ) and afterwards noticed a man a couple of boxes away who had obviously been watching me. He smiled and offered a small nod/head bow.

    That's why I go out as JJ.

    -jj
    Last edited by jenniferj; 02-02-2012 at 12:45 PM. Reason: small addition

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaglover View Post
    Er, yes actually. And not always in a good way.
    Well said. My hat is off to you. ;-)

  23. #23
    happy to be her Sarah Doepner's Avatar
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    Here is a test. Look at your driver license and see if the sex box is checked "M". Next look at the size tag on your clothes to see if it says "Ladies M or L or XL". Yep, if that's what you find you're a crossdresser. My question is why do you need someone else to validate what you are doing? We play enough mind games with ourselves just getting through this gender maddness, why had a layer of philosophy to the mix? Don't read philosophy, read Cosmo.
    Sarah
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    Member Susan_Xdress's Avatar
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    The members here never cease to amaze me, and that is precisely why I joined. I don’t think there is a question under the sun that this forum doesn’t tackle without intellect and humor. Some days it is wonderful to just read the comments, and count myself fortunate that I am in good company.

  25. #25
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    Does a Bear... Awesome discussions in Philosophy. Senior High P (Mr. Cornelius-Really!) pushed many of us to higher levels of acceptance of the Human Condition and Others. Lucky us! I feel that after outing himself to me, SO is more relaxed and our communication has been more meaningful as I have posted earlier. He was hiding and alone for so long. I love that he trusts me and I get to witness his transformation and help with having good experiences safely. ALARMS!! Strategy around young children? Bears Don't Do That! Tee Hee

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