Lesbian women and us crossdressers.

[girlalex]

Ok... It makes me so mad that I see all of those lesbian women dressed in males clothing and they don't give a f$%#% what anybody thinks or says and I think its great, I think its awesome that they are just being comfortably who they really are. But what about us, why are we so shy and afraid to be wearing female clothes in public. And I mean I see more and more and more of them everyday, yet only once in a blue moon I would see a guy dressed in females clothing. whats up with that.

Maybe I already have the answer to my question and that being that we might be more sensitive in nature than they are or is it just too ridiculous for us to be comfortable too. See... people look at a lesbian female dressed in drab and its ok.. no problem, whatever, but when they see us we are too ridiculous? that doesn't make sense. We should be looking at those women as an example to what we should be doing instead of hiding in the closet.

[busker]

I have photographs of women dressed as males that are more than 100 years old. Perhaps when we have been out and about for a lot longer than we have been, we might get accepted-- but don't hold your breath. Women have always had more "freedoms" with regard to fashion than men even though it is still illegal for a woman to wear pants in Paris France to this day. The authorities just turn a blind eye to a law that is currently in force.

I recently saw something about a "new" men's hairstyle--the "bun" and women commenters are already moaning that men are taking over another of their style options. Go figure! It was actually popular among Japanese Samurai and known as a topknot in English, so men aren't really stealing anything that was exclusive to women, though the topknot was outlawed in about 1868 when Japan began to westernize and Samurai were no longer needed.
You look young enough and certainly passable so if you can manage to get out, you can start the revolution. Good luck, happy dressing.

[WsprsOnTheWind]

Lets face it there are things that go on in the world that are not fair to both genders. I want to be paid the same amount a man gets paid to do the same job but how many times are women paid less just because they are women!

[Jacqueline Winona]

Believe me, they hear about their appearance as well. I have several Lesbian friends and they have all complained about being told they don't look feminine enough at one time or another, and I've heard tons of jokes at their expense when they aren't around. I see your point about them not getting as much grief about their appearance as a CD would, but it's not all good for them.

[VioletJourney]

Umm... are you talking about lesbians or FTM crossdressers? Because typically lesbians, even the butch ones, don't dress like men, they just dress a little more masculine. And I've talked to FTM crossdressers that DO feel the need to hide in the closet.

[Frederika]

In patriarchy all that is feminine devalues ​​men therefore makes them ridiculous in the eyes of most people.

[Shananigans]

Hooray for further feeding into the stereotype that lesbians are butch.

However, when non-butch lesbians show up we call them "lipstick lesbians."

Sheesh...

Are these butch lesbians really giving a f*ck about what people think? No. Go out there and dress like a girl if you want to.

But, prepare for hurtful topics like this that stereotype and overgeneralize. Be prepared to be called a fairy and a f*g.

The perpetuation of these stereotypes makes the world go 'round

[docrobbysherry]

Here's another stereotype for ya, Alex! They can get away with it because they're "just women"! And, we're men!

That's NOT rite or fair, but that's how MOST people think!

[Nelson]

the grass is always greener ..... we ALL face the common problem that if we can't be pidgeon holed ... we need to be exterminated. I first generation Hungarian, my mother grew up in NAZI occupied Hungary. People like me were taken awat and gassed ..... She is terrified that something will happen to me, even though she says I'm evil... lol, mum's...

[HollyH20]

I think all women are crossdressers because anything they wear is acceptble

[Sammy777]

Every time I see this subject come up I don't know what I want to do more - Laugh or Cry.

ONCE AGAIN - The glaring - big enough to drive a semi through - flaw in this theory is:

THEY ARE NOT TRYING TO LOOK/ ACT/ PASS AS GUYS.

Boo Fk'in Hoo
Last week was why do bitches let their shit slip like dat' and wear sweatpants all da' time.

Yesterday was why don't woman appreciate their femininity like we do [and dress better]

Today it's why do Lesbians get away with looking like guys.

WHY? WHY?
Because none of the examples above involve woman trying to be guys.

Here is an idea - Try leaving the wigs and forms at home for once
You're man right? So then step up and be one, in a skirt.
Try going out wearing the clothes without trying to be a woman.

[JessicaM1985]

Hmm....
Do I think that FTMs get away with a bit more in terms of what they can wear? Sure. But I don't for one second believe it's all fun and games for them either. They get bullied and run down too. That said, I blame society and not them for this weird double-standard where dresses and skirts are a no-no for guys, but I've seen plenty of mohawks on girls and everyone is cool with it. To that effect, I see it as nothing more than naked misogyny. How dare anyone want to look like a woman? A case in point:
A gg friend of mine used to wear pretty things, but got a lot of ctap from people and talked down to. Over time she started wearing camo t-shirts, guys jeans and doc martens. She isn't a girly girl, but doesn't even really consider herself a crossdresser. Coincidentally, she stopped getting lewd comments from random people and is generally left alone now. Granted she finds this new style more comfy, but it sickens me that some people treat anything feminine looking like crap.

And as Shana pointed out, a person can be FTM and not be a lesbian. Just like OP can be a MTF and like only girls. Gender identity and orientation are not the same thing, despite whatever uninformed people may try to tell you.

[Jenniferathome]

There is a double standard and we have all grown up with it. Men should be men. We can't be even a little feminine or we are gay. Women can be a little masculine without drawing attention, they are just "Toboys" or "power women." Now, on the extreme end, if a women were to wear pure men's clothing (cut for men) she'd be obvious as a crossdresser but society cares less about that extreme than when men are crossdressing. It's just reality and I think will be a million years before that changes. So why be frustrated? Go out if you like. The average person just doesn't care.

[Pythos]

WsorsIbTheWind. YOur argument is flawed. Why? Because you are taking the stance that because an unfairness is done to you that it is then ok for others to have unfairness foisted upon them. THAT HELPS NO ONE.

On another note. To be absolutely honest I have NOT encountered this deal about women getting paid less for the same work. Now, if we are talking sallaried positions....Those are screwed up anyway, and in my book should be illegal. Everyone should get paid hourly, but that is only my view.

Just because women get stiffed when it comes to the amount of money they make for the same job as a man (still have yet to see this personally), does not justify another group being denied what should be a basic human right. Women moaning about men encroaching upon "their" territory when it comes to fashion is BS any way you look at it. Women have co-opted male styles for years, and when men try to get it back we get moaned at about it.

I have seen MANY women wearing styles that are now considered "feminine", yet at one time or another were worn ONLY by men. Do I have a problem with this?

NO!!!

What I do have a problem with is when these same women say crap about me wearing just one item of "feminine" clothing that being a skirt (okay two, cause I usually am in hose). That is what upsets me when I see women walking about in jeans that at one time are of a design for males only.

[Vanessa Storrs]

I decided to go out crossdressed today. I'm wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. I'm going out as a lesbian.

[girlalex]

Thanks for all your replies, I guess from now on its up to research and time before orientation and gender identity are one of the every day topics people talk about
to appreciate diversity and maybe even evolution.

[Debglam]

Hooray for further feeding into the stereotype that lesbians are butch.

However, when non-butch lesbians show up we call them "lipstick lesbians."

Sheesh...

While I get what you are saying Girlalex, Shan is right and you need to be careful. You have no idea whether these masculinely dressed women are lesbians or what. Just stereotyping and that never works out well.

[Contessa]

Please try this on for a moment women are still feminine in what ever they dress in. Even a woman who likes or loves other women still have a feminine look to them. We love the feminine form, I know I do. And even in women's clothing I still like the feminine form. So I like women. I am not gay but I am not straight either. It usually is men who have trouble with crossdressers m2f because they see the feminine form and they like it. They don't want to find out its a man really. I guess that when guys just wear a skirt and nothing to make the skirt feminine have no problem except being considered as gay. Gay men are different from gay women. Two men can't have children. Two can't make children but can still possibly have them.

Women want a penis and men want a vagina. So it is the mind that makes the difference in gay people. Don't get this wrong it is not a problem for them. Their mind says their women so they seek out another just like them although neither has a vagina they still seek out a penis. Same Vice versa. Neither has a penis but still seek out a vagina.

Men think about sex every six seconds I hear. And we are visual to us all women are eye candy. That's a dude comes up when we see us and know it. But when you don't know cause some look so much like women it like you're a dude. Most or many women just don't like those guys cause they are a threat them losing out on getting the good looking guys. Cause even some of them might be gay. Two opposite gays don't work together cause neither wants the package.

Labeling me as gay just because I want to wear a skirt is just wrong, I want to look like or be a woman. That's all. Its fun that's all. When there were skirts on sale for men, they were afraid to buy them or wear them out. Now they are gone off market. Would you wear one now. Sure I would but where can I find a skirt for a man?

Please think about what I wrote.

Contessa Marie

[Lorileah]

First, no one says you cannot wear what you want to wear when you want to wear it. There are no laws like that.

Second, as pointed out earlier, not all lesbians dress like men or act butch.

Third, when women started wearing masculine style clothing they had the same type of reaction that we have but they sucked it up and went on and didn't whine about how unfair it was, they made it FAIR. You want equality? Stand up and demand it. Quit being a wuss. Educate and inform.

Fourth, female crossdressers don't go around claiming that they are sexually more active than when they are in feminine mode. When men quit miking it a sexual thing they will get more respect, but when men dress and act like 3 year old morons, that is what the public sees. Since that is what gets headlines, that is the public perception. Sort of like when a man sees a woman in pants and assumes she is lesbian.

Finally, I am surprised this thread is even still here.

[girlalex]

While I get what you are saying Girlalex, Shan is right and you need to be careful. You have no idea whether these masculinely dressed women are lesbians or what. Just stereotyping and that never works out well.

I don't need to be careful because I was obviously referring to lesbians that are ftm and that we need to take an example from them because they are the once who are out more often than we are. In other words I wish I and many like me had the balls to get out there. I just don't think many of us have that confidence including myself, and I wanted to know what you guys were thinking about this subject matter.

Sorry if I wasn't clear...

[Richelle423]

I decided to go out crossdressed today. I'm wearing jeans and a flannel shirt. I'm going out as a lesbian.

hip hip hooray! You go girl!!!!

[Presh GG]

Girlex,
So what is it you are complaining about ?
Is it that lesbians fought for their rights and won ? Or is it that you are too chicken to go out and find out that no one cares? What in the world makes you mad ?

Geez, Exactly whos fault is it you remain closeted ?
Presh
I too am surprised this is still here.

[ReineD]

Ok... It makes me so mad that I see all of those lesbian women dressed in males clothing and they don't give a f$%#% what anybody thinks or says and I think its great, I think its awesome that they are just being comfortably who they really are. But what about us, why are we so shy and afraid to be wearing female clothes in public. And I mean I see more and more and more of them everyday, yet only once in a blue moon I would see a guy dressed in females clothing. whats up with that.

If you're referring to F2Ms who present fully male, they suffer stigma as well in the mainstream, even though women in general do have a wider range of clothing styles than men do. If you're talking about women who identify and present as women but who dress in a manner that is more masculine than their peers, then it is not the same thing IMO since these women are not attempting to present as men.

Is it your wish to present as a male who wears women's clothing, or do you want to present fully female with forms, makeup, wig, etc?

It is true that women who present as women are allowed to wear pants while men who present as men are not allowed to wear skirts. I would like to see this changed as well since the situation it inequitable. I also believe that our society would be better off if there was no stigma attached to people who wish to present differently than their birth gender. But, to say that F2Ms are wholly embraced in our culture, I don't believe is entirely accurate.

F2Ms may experience less fear of the consequences of homophobia than do M2Fs, and this may enable them to present as who they are at perhaps an earlier age, but they also suffer lost relationships and lost opportunities when they decide to forge ahead.

[girlalex]

lol, just wanted some emotional support.

[ReineD]

^ Ooops, sorry. Did I ask too many questions?

I do that sometimes.