Most of the replies to this thread have a strong slant towards wanting to ‘go out’
One comment said ‘the closet is not our friend’ well it’s my friend!
I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’
And if anyone accuses me of being a coward I will get really miffed.
SUZY
I find it amusing to read this thread and the responses. Is no one on here offended that a television show would have the nerve to use the term TABOO for cross dressers? Who the hell are they to endorse something as TABOO without showing one shred of evidence that cross dressing has had a negative affect on any person, animal or plant on this planet?
There should be an email campaign against this. Not to the idiot network but to the advertisers by threatening to not use their products. As things stand in today's society viewing Cd as TABOO, the closet really is your friend.
As my old banner at one time used to say:Originally Posted by EllieOPKS
"Smoking kills 5.4 million people worldwide, crossdressing kills zero".
how come nobody ever considered smoking cigarettes taboo? ....and I was a pack-a-day addict at one time.
LOL! I like your old banner Natalie
I'm still stuck on "too" taboo? There's levels? Always thought it was or it wasn't.... Not severely taboo or vaguely mild taboo... Its only taboo if you let it be, imho...
Anyone else first think of the perfume Taboo (Tabu) like I did? Had a girlfriend who wore that. Her clothes always smelled like it too... Even when I "borrowed" them! Lol.
Disclaimer: use of the term "Borrowing" does not construe in any manner... Forth with... that Karren condones taking, wearing or using fgor any purpose, someone else's clothes... Not owned by the wearer... Without written permission!!
Last edited by Karren H; 02-06-2012 at 01:02 PM.
I don't think that's cowardly at all! For many it's a private thing, something for their eyes only and there's nothing wrong with that. Personally I do have a desire to be seen out but right now I'm just learning how to dress properly, so it's just between me and the mirror.
Pinky there a lot of girls here opening the doors and educating the public on CDing. They are an inspiration for the rest of us. You know.. changing the world one person at a time.
That would be me Suzy. You may think it is your friend but friends help friends. Closets are for clothes. Has that closet done anything to make you feel good about yourself. Has it built up your self esteem or is it keeping it down?
Then don't go out. But don't bemoan the falsehood that you will be discriminated against. The only way to bring truth to the front is to bring it into the light. I really have nothing against those who wish to stay in the closet, but I do not respect those who complain about not being accepted while they are behind that door. Those who come on here and say "I wish...." but don't try and make it come true. If we want to accepted in the world we have to be the ones who are on the front lines. No one else is going to stand up for us.I think I can stick my neck out here and say that there are a lot of members here like me that have no need whatsoever to ‘go out’
On this side of the pond, if we had stayed in the closet we would probably be speaking English stillBut truthfully, if we want change we have to be willing to standup (and out) for it.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
There is a huge spectrum of where people are and what they want to do with their crossdressing. I have to accept that although I want to go out as a female and fully blend as such, there are many people who are content to keep their dressing private and enjoy themselves without ever having the need or desire to go out in public. I see nothing wrong with either.
I think the title of the Taboo show is intended to mean "Here are some things that would be considered taboo in western society", not "Here are some things we think should be taboo and here's why".
That would be me Suzy. You may think it is your friend but friends help friends. Closets are for clothes. Has that closet done anything to make you feel good about yourself. Has it built up your self esteem or is it keeping it down?
Then don't go out. But don't bemoan the falsehood that you will be discriminated against. The only way to bring truth to the front is to bring it into the light. I really have nothing against those who wish to stay in the closet, but I do not respect those who complain about not being accepted while they are behind that door. Those who come on here and say "I wish...." but don't try and make it come true. If we want to accepted in the world we have to be the ones who are on the front lines. No one else is going to stand up for us.
On this side of the pond, if we had stayed in the closet we would probably be speaking English still
When have you ever heard me complain about not being accepted?
How do you know how I feel about myself?
My self esteem is fine thank you!
When have I ever said ‘I wish’?
You change the world if you want to, I don’t! Does that make me a lesser person Lorileah?
I await your reply.
SUZY
Amen to that what a world it would be if we could dress and make ourselves up as we wish
To me crossdressing being considered taboo is part of what makes it such a turn on...
I never thought of it as taboo, just necessary
No Suzy, I don't recall you ever complaining about not being accepted but that is what the OP was talking about
(emphasis mine)
The point of the thread was being accepted in the mainstream. I replied that hiding in the closet won't get that done. That in order to be accepted "we" have to be out and seen. No one is going to knock on your door and say "Hi! It is so cool you are transgendered. Would you like to be my friend?"
You can remain in the closet. There are several outcomes, the most likely being that nothing will change. It does not make you a lesser person. BUT consider other outcomes. It was not so long ago that people who were "different" were treated differently. They could not go some places, they had to be marked as being different so that others could treat them differently. Some of them stayed hidden thinking that if they just went along with the flow, everything would be OK. Until the night someone knocked on that closet door. Even those who didn't make a fuss were guilty. My hope is that the outcome will be better. That you can, if you wish, walk down the street being who you are. And since I am using history as an example here, the only way that will happen is if someone (me and the others here who keep saying "go out") make enough waves that things do change.
If you are happy Suzy, stay happy. If you are like the OP and wonder why people are closed minded, then you have to educate. To do that you have to be out of that closet. Just because you own a Ferrari doesn't mean you have to take it out of the garage. It is still nice to sit in it and dream. Not everyone is born to change the world, some just benefit from those that do.
I will refer to a quote that is attributed to Robert Kennedy, but is really George Bernard ShawWe will disagree, but that is why we have these boards. Otherwise it would be sort like living in a bland world.There are those that look at things the way they are, and ask why? I dream of things that never were, and ask why not?
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
This has been a great discussion, and there are some very good replies. I particularly like Danielle's comment that "being considered taboo is part of what makes it such a turn on" For many of us I think that there is more truth to this than we would like to admit.
Human beings are a social animal, meaning we basically rely on others for survival, and seek membership as a part of the "group". We retain a closeness to relatives, whether we like them or not, unlike most animal species who raise their young and then forget about them. We establish friendships and work hard at maintaining them. And we strive to get along with neighbours and co-workers and most people we meet unless they seriously do wrong to us. These characteristics are especially true when we are young, but still form a large part of our existence when we reach the cantakerousness of old age.
Our existence as social beings which ensures our survival and overall happiness is driven by the need for the respect and admiration of other members of society. We want to be liked. When we crossdress, and go out in society, we are seldom going to encounter any real difficulties, in the sense of being denied access to places, or being verbally rebuked and so on. If we show common sense in where we go, how we dress and who we are with, we are not in any greater physical danger than anyone else. Part of the reason why we do not encounter any such problems is that almost everybody else is just like us. They want to be respected, admired and liked. Showing disrepect for the foibles or eccentricities of others does not garner much of that respect. So we are treated nicely for the most part, ignored in crowds and generally "accepted".
However, we have absolutely no idea what is actually going on in the mind of those people who accept us. If we happen to pass a vagrant on the street, or encounter verbal vulgarity, or meet someone whose religious, political or social convictions are vastly different than ours, we tend to ignore, humour or take whatever action we deem necessary to protect the everyday niceties of life, not create a scene or get into an argument. We want to be liked. But we form an opinion of that person, which in all likelihood we will keep to ourself, or discuss only with those close to us.
Part of the motivation for crossdressers remaining closeted is that we have no idea what others are actually thinking, despite what they may say or do. As long as the "taboo" remains we have no control over people's thoughts, and thus no idea how crossdressing is affecting the level of respect we actually have. Much is written about the first step being acceptance of ourselves and that is very true. With that we develop self-confidence. However, we must also deal with the reality of our own ignorance as to the respect and admiration of others toward us. Are we capable of separating ourselves a little bit from the natural instincts that make us social animals? Remaining closeted is not necessarily fear, or cowardice, but might be something much deeper in the basic psychology of humanity. To change this, the taboo would have to be eliminated, but then what would that do to Danielle's turn on?
Veronica
I'd have to agree strongly with Lori. While I fully support and accept those of us who choose to CD within the safe confines of their home, I would construe OP to be focused on CDing as a "taboo" by some portion of the public.
I go out in public and enjoy interacting with people, making friends and experiencing life en femme because its enjoyable. If I were constantly subject to anything adverse, ranging from snickering teenagers to physical threats, I wouldn't be enjoying the expereince. So, basically, in the short six months that I've been increasingly out, I have yet to encounter this taboo. So maybe our fears have been overblown. The majority of opinions expressed to me have been more along the vein of "We think its great. Life is short. Be yourself".
In my prior post, I presented my thoughts as to why some of us remain closeted, when there appears to be a relatively high level of acceptance of those who are out and about. This theory hinges on the assumption that crossdressing is a taboo. That leaves the question as to why this is so. First of all, I have to agree with Pinky that crossdressing is looked upon as being more taboo than TG or TS. I think the reason for this is that people can see a logical reason for being TS and even TG, even if they do not fully understand the whys and wherefores that lead to that reason. How could a non TS individual understand what takes place in the mind of a TS. What they can accept is that this is a condition that exists and will always be there, just like being left-handed to use the old cliche.
But why would a male individual, who suffers no gender confusion, still want to wear female clothing from time to time? This makes no sense to those who do not share this predilection, given the culture in which they have been raised. Despite the gains of the women's rights and femininst movements, as a society we still place a premium on masculinity over femininity in many ways. Any display of femininity in a man, or an interest in feminine things such as clothing is seen as emasculating, which has a lot of negativity in its meaning. There is no equivalent, but opposite word in the English language. Any display of masculinity, or interest in male pursuits by a woman is seen as enobling. It does not diminish her womanhood, but enhances it. Boys are brought up to "be a man", and always maintain their manhood. Girls simply become women, and while there is much more to be learned about being a woman, than being a man, a woman is still a woman regardless of how accomplished she has become. But a man can be thought of as "less than a man" if he does not live up to all the expectations and requirements of membership in that fraternity.
As a result of all of this, crossdressing is then viewed as being emasculating to the man who participates, without possessing a definable gender confusion reason for doing so. He is seen as voluntarily belittling himself, which goes against every value that we have been taught to hold dear.
Crossdressing will remain a taboo as long as our culture maintains the ideal that being male holds a supremacy over being female. We have come a long way toward improving the rights and so on of women, even to the point of giving them supremacy over men in certain things (which becomes too much of a political argument to detail here.) However, despite these gains, society still puts a premium on masculinity over femininity, and the taboo persists. I don't have any answers to this, other than education, but where and by whom remains a problem.
Veronica
The problem I have with this line of reasoning is that I don't know that the person who encounters a CDr can differentiate a person who is "just" CDing from individuals who might be TG or TS. How would the observer know?
That is a very interesting point!
The TS ladies need to live their lives out in the public. It is their life and they don't have a choice like a CDer does. That said, many of the CD/TG ladies here are representing all of the CD/TG/TS ladies very well.
Last edited by Marleena; 02-06-2012 at 09:07 PM. Reason: Clarification of terms
Marleena,
Interesting point. I see those who are TS are the vanguard for all of us. .....The Rosa Parks.
It's interesting to hear those who are closeted, but wish to get out somehow without fear of rejection, or alienation, and yet unlike the civil rights movement of the 1960's, few have experienced the discrimination, rejection, and even violence first hand.
Being behind a computer for a short hour in the evening is a very cozy comfy place to let yourself out, but it's not like being TG and standing at a bus stop waiting for your bus in a rough neighborhood.
When I was at Keystone Conference last year, one of the speakers was TG activist Mara Keisling, who has appeared on many news channels, including CNN with Anderson Cooper. She mentioned thats suicide attempts amongst TG folk is over 40%.
Crossdressers in public have it easy. Many of us have no intention of letting our employer know. We can go out in public, and paint the town. We put it away after all is said and done. Then it's time to paint the house, and do our yard work, and sometimes squabble with our SO's about how much time we get out . TG's are 24/7/365.
Nathalie you are one of the CD/TG ladies I was referring to. TG is I guess encompassing all of us non GG girls that are not TS. I did edit my post because a lot of CD's are out there along with TG raising awareness and in contact with the public.
In other words you girls are helping all of us.
Thanks, Marleena!
Such steps didn't come easy. It took me a long time get over my own fears, but once I found likewise company, it got easier each time. I always try to improve my game.
I can remember my first time out on my own about two years ago , I drove to the SoHo section of New York City, thinking that this would be a tolerant location, while dressed in a sweater dress & boots. I stepped out of my car, walked around two blocks , then back in to my car thinking that people were staring at me. I was terrified, but for no reason. Nobody gave a 'at's rass'!
Everyone's confidence level is different, and everyone's goals are different, everyone's needs are different. For me, I'm a the point where I have to go out once in a while and be me.
Like the documentary on African Honey Badger: "Honey Badger Don't Care".
Hey girl, I think the thread is talking about someone gender enhanced being able to go out in public and be accepted by everyone and anyone without question, not someone that is quite content and happy to express their gender self in the confines of their home. No need to get mifffed.
Another way to look at her post would be, " If no one gender enhanced ever went out in public there would not be any issues regarding how the public response would be because there would be no such thing as crossdressing or anything else for that matter, as far the the rest of the population is concerned. How would anyone know it even exists if no one ever went out? Snow gone yet?
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