I was wondering how many of you, have been in drag shows. My school is having a drag show and I'm debating on possibly joining. Seems drag gets a lot of hate on these forums and I'm not sure why, I enjoy watching it and I also think it might be fun to perform.
If you would enjoy that, then have fun. They are generally meant to be fun and maybe poke a little fun at ourselves...sort of a caricature. Notice I said "generally."
Laura
I love drag shows. You have the opportunity to have some real fun!
Some members here don’t like them but then some members here take life a little too seriously.
I’m a little envious.
SUZY
Last edited by suzy1; 02-09-2012 at 09:12 AM.
I'm not a fan of drag shows for many reasons, predominantly since it makes a laughing stock of our community. It's not nearly as bad as tv shows like Maury, but it's still only one degree off. Drag shows are like when slaves were told to "dance for their masters" in the 1800s. It shows us in the worst possible light, but it's "just a joke." Sure, right. And, this leads to people seeing us as less than human, which is why there are so many trans murders every week. Also, I don't get the entire "look" that is done by them, which no real woman would do (sequined dresses ALL the time with over-the-top whited out makeup - WHY, WHY WHY???) lip syncing pop music, etc.
But, I don't think that's what you're talking about, is it? If it's just like a cross-dressing beauty contest, and non of that "pageantry" I just mentioned, go out there and have a good time. But, if not, that's my opinion on those things. I don't get them, I think they're terrible for the community, and want them to go the way of the dinosaur.
I'd like to add to Sophie's point, by saying that NONE of what she said is true.
It's not like the people who hate us were on the fence about it until drag queens came along. And the biggest difference between drag and slaves entertaining there masters is that drag was developed within the gay community to entertain the gay community. It had nothing to do with trying to appease people who have a higher social standing.
edited to add: I should also mention that even taking non-pageant drag into consideration, there is more than just the caricature. Some men just want to be honest showgirls. For example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s81GIx1U8Sg that's not lipsynch btw.
That's not to say that your sentiment isn't completely incomprehensible though.
Last edited by Violetgray; 02-09-2012 at 10:42 AM.
Ayame, if it's going to be one of those high school "womanless beauty pageants", avoid it like the plague.
I can't imagine any other type of drag show that is as low-brow and demeaning to the whole concept of crossdressing as these abominations, which cater totally to the homophobic jock mentality. They seem to be especially popular in the southern U.S., but then again, so are the "Toddlers and Tiaras" type of pageants where pre-school girls are made up and paraded around like Barbie dolls - likely screwing them up for life in the process. Maybe there's a message in there somewhere for those two divergent views of femininity that seem to co-exist in the same "good ol' boy" culture...
Go to youtube, search "womanless beauty pageants", and you'll see what I mean.
Bad example, Sophie. Nobody forces anyone to perform in a drag show for their master. It's voluntary. It's fun. But, it's OK for you to not get it, or not participate.
I've never been in a drag show, but I like them, because they're fun. That's right, Suzy, let's not take life too seriously.
I guess I see drag as caricature. The biggest problem is that it gets confused with us. Certainly, RuPaul didn't help matters by coming in defense of the word "Tranny". That's a tricky word, it can very derogatory but it can also be used between friends in a light hearted way.
I don't mind drag as performance art...(although there is a difference between "parody" and "out-right mockery"). I'll even give RuPaul credit for using the art form to help women come out of their comfort zones with "Drag U". I just wish it was more clear that drag is not transgender and that RuPaul, while entitled to her opinion, does not speak for us.
Another reason I'm hesitant to be too hard on drag is that I know that the gay and transsexual communities sometimes have difficulty with us. Even though we face similar bigotry, we often get confused with each other - which some times shows up as tension between our groups. (Things like "when you get really really gay, you want to change sexes - which just has layers of wrong with it...).
So, recognizing this, I hesitate to be too critical of the drag community.
All that being said though....if I'm being honest, the classic drag queen "ultra-fierce" attitude just annoys the hell out of me....even though I know it's all an act. It grates on me like fingernails on a chalk-board.
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -- Mark Twain
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My wife's cousin does drag at gay clubs and we go and support him every time. Its all in the spirit of fun....plus he he is genuinly happy. if its going to be one of those deals where its just pretty much the jocks wearing a dress for a cheap laugh..stay away from that.... You're better than that
I've been to Darcelle's in Portland Oregon a couple of times; which was fun. One time I took my wife, she had fun as well. The first time there, was during a TG convention in Portland and a bunch of us went. We were part of the entertainment, the girls from the show loved us. A few weeks later, my wife and I were in Portland for another reason and I took some girl clothes with me. My wife and I ended up going to Hobo's for dinner (a gay restaurant, in Portland); which is a couple of doors down from Darcells's. After dinner, we went to Darcelle's show and the girls from the show recognized me from when I was there before.
Dana Ryan
Well, I have always enjoyed a well done "Drag Show" My wife always seems to enjoy them also.
I've seen Kenny Kerr in Vages, several in New Oeleans, and several in Atlanta, and a couple in
Kansas City. I enjoyed them all.
I'm sure if you're entirely getting my point. The whole "It's just a joke" is just a lie to make people shut up (and that can go for any sort of hate thrown out towards anything in this world). I really don't like hearing people put that excuse out there.Originally Posted by Violetgray
And, the reason it was done in the gay community was because they weren't being hired for any jobs and it was for sheer survival so they could get food on the table. This is going back to the 50s. That's also why the whole "showgirl" look still exists. That was the sort of "maxim" of femininity back in the 50s and 60s when it began. And, they just kept on doing that 50s and 60s "showgirl" look right up into the 70s...80s...90s...00s...10s... I mean, what "showgirl" look exists in 2012 outside of drag queens? None.
But, I guess what really rubs me the wrong way is that this caricature thing they do IS what most of America things of when they think of a "tranny." And, since it's "just a joke" makes true TG/TS people not be taken seriously. And, that, in and of itself, is damaging each and every time it's done...
Drag in its truest sense is performance art. There are those who work hard at it and make it good entertainment. However other than the fact they wear gowns and wigs, I don't really know how they fit into transgendered life. Many are gay men who are...gay men. Men who do it only as art or on a lark.
I think the issue with most here is the over the top performance. The clownish and garish performances that are what most of the "rest" of the world sees in us. The camp and especially the excessive sexual parts. The wearing little in public. The breasts that are way too large. The over done makeup (which can be done for stage purposes because the lights change so much) but off stage and in public is a caricature. It puts the general community into a light that is not representative of what it really is. I don't think the RuPaul show does anything positive to the greater community because they spend more time on the strange and off beat and focus on the cat fights. This is basically the same issue the TS community has with the rest of us when they think we focus on not blending in.
The tradition of men dressing as women for shows is very old. At its basic, it goes back to when women were not allowed onstage. But the classic is the Hasty Pudding group at Harvard over 200 years ago. Again, most the performers are not TG and really don't associate being a TG in any manner. Some grow up to be president of the US. So in that case, if you want to, I would do it. It is a lark, a kick, whatever. No different than trick or treating. But don't do it as an excuse to dress. Often you will be put in a situation that is really not indicative of being a TG (Excessive sexual innuendo, campy silly skits, and mostly bad bad lip syncing).
It is not that most here don't like drag,when done well it is excellent, it is that it is not representative of the whole but is the image that is presented to the world as what we are. It is stereotypic behavior which is what I believe Sophie was trying to say. When you compare two things they may not be exactly like the other but they are close. ( I would have put it closer to minstrel shows on vaudeville that had no black actors at all but panned up things that people believed were black actions). Look at movies involving drag performances, think really hard about any that show the TG world as real people and not clownish oafs.
Personally I would not do "drag". Having said that I have been involved in stage shows (as a guy) where the humor was sophomoric, the jokes were tasteless and the singing was off key. But it was fun.If I was offered a part that showed a TG as a real person and not a clown or murderous psycho, I would do it in a heart beat
Last edited by Lorileah; 02-09-2012 at 11:49 AM.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Sophie have you ever been to a drag show ?
Business is the the art of extracting money from another mans wallet with out resorting to violence
9 out of 10 Dr say I'm sane. The 10th one never made it to the hearing. Did you know that California has drop bears ?
First a groom then a bride. Never again.
I have only seen one drag show and that was a long time ago in Las Vegas. I was impressed with the artistry. The artist who imitated Joan Rivers was spot on. My wife enjoyed it also. There is always a tendency to go over the top and become a caricature but these people avoided that. There was a famous drag artist in the UK called Danny LaRue, I think, and he had no interest in cross dressing at all. It was said that he despised cross dressers. His routine was very popular but he just looked on it as a job and a way to make some good money( he had several homes and at least one Rolls Royce). I'm sure that current drag artists cover the spectrum and include some with a similar attitude
the bottom line is drag shows presents crossdressing in a very false light. gg's like my wife see them on tv and are horrified to think there husbands dress and act like that.i dont even get what they are suppose to represent,certinlly not women
What I don’t understand is that all the drag queens I have watched [On YouTube] are very good. Some are very glamorous and some are very funny.
So I am finding it hard to understand Sophie’s hatred of them.
And lets be honest here, how many of us would like to look as good as some of them!
Suzy living in the real world.
Suzy, you should see some of the shows I have seen, You would know why Sophie has her feelings. You don't see the absolutely BAD shows on Youtube. Here the majority of performances are amateurs who don't put a lot of effort into it. It comes off bad at the show (and often you pay to go see these even if it is a charity). We have a few here who do excellent shows too. One I saw was as lavish as any Las Vegas production with choreography that was outstanding. You can tell they put hours of work into it. But usually, the shows here in Denver are sort of like they decided to do it an hour before. My biggest peeve? When you lip sync a song, you should KNOW the song
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Go for it, Ayame. It seems like those who don't like drag shows are fairly often those who haven't actually been to a good drag show. Drag shows can be a blast! I've never participated, but I been to many professional drag shows and always enjoyed them.
And yes, I've been to some atrociously bad drag shows too, but that's no reason to condemn all drag shows. I don't care for the style of drag that is a caricature of women, I like the ones where the contestants have obviously gone to great lengths to present a tasteful image of attractive females. Click here for a few photos that I took at drag pageants back in the 1990's, this is the kind of presentation that I'm talking about as being "good" drag.
Carol
Last edited by Julogden; 02-09-2012 at 12:38 PM.
My name is Carol.
Ayame,
I work for a college where the student GBLT group puts on an annual drag show for charity. Most of the performers are students, although they usually hire a few pros too. It is great fun and everyone has a good time. In fact, I have even performed in the show twice. For me, it's nice to have a chance to express my femme side outside of my normal circles without having to come out. If it sounds like a similar kind of show, I say go for it!
Jamie
All this being said, my very first time ever being out in public dressed as a woman was a Halloween event in Delaware. I was wearing a costume that I had agreed to wear for a "Drag Race" fundraising event the next summer (I told her that, if she made my costume by the Halloween loop, I'd wear it for that to). So, long story short, I had a lot of fun and, in a way, it was safe way to "test the waters". So, campy and silly though it may be, there is that...
and, on an un-related note....while I do like the idea behind RuPaul's "Drag U", "Drag Race" is an utterly horrid show....
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, Sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. -- Mark Twain
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Dual Spirits (My Blog)
Relax...it's just a JOKE...
I've only ever seen one drag performance many years ago at our state fair. It was great fun. Until the very end everyone thought the main performer was a real woman. (A good looking one at that!) But I kind of know what Sophie is alluding to.
It definately is a lot of fun Hon.
Second star to the right and straight on till morning
If I were back in my highschool days, I would try to put a 'kids in the hall' spin on it. Convince everyone to be as convincing as possible. If you are a CDer...I would suggest going for a character instead of straight dressing, but do it as best as you can and inlist the help of all the hot girls... this will get you in with the fun crowd and any negativity from the guys takes a simple...'hey, I'm hanging out with all the hot girls you never had the guts to talk to...' to shut them up.
Chickie
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