"She Shouldn't Be Transitioning"

[Princess Chantal]

Being in the Winnipeg transgender scene for several years now, I've heard the questioning and the chitter chatter of the legitimacy of one's transitioning by other tg folks over and over again. I don't know what provokes them to do the questioning and never asked what their beliefs were.
When they ask for my opinion on the legitimacy, I either tend to ignore the question or answer with "Doesn't matter, it does not change my support of (the person in question)'s decision".

So laying that out, what are your thoughts of a person going through SRS and other transitioning procedures for strictly cosmetic for appearance and living preferences with no (or very little) GID reasons?
Do you believe that GID should be required to proceed to the SRS?

[Miranda-E]

"It's the way I want to live my life" should be more than enough.

[RachelOKC]

What right is it for me to question someone else's decision to transition or have SRS? How are any of us to know what's in someone else's head? I've heard a lot of second guessing of others and it usually just strikes me as someone being trannier-than-thou.

I had a CD friend who got a boob job. As far as I knew, he (I only say he because that's pretty much how I knew him) had no plans to transition and I don't think he did much CD'ing outside of home and a few safe places. But a boob job he got because he wanted one, and he didn't care what people thought of him in his civilian maintenance job on a military base. I never understood his motivation to get implants but it wasn't my need to. He knew what he was doing and if he was happy with it, then so be it. It didn't make him any less of a person in my book, just perhaps a bit odder than the average bear. It would not have been my decision to do it the way he did.

I'd hope that people would be well informed and would make decisions with professional guidance but I personally just don't like to judge what other people do. It somehow feels like it gives people license to judge me in return.

[Rachel Flowers]

Professionals who perform the surgery have a duty to be satisfied the person is seeking transition for long term reasons and I'd be reluctant to say public money should be used in purely cosmetic cases, but otherwise, it's no-ones else's business.

Yet gossip & judgement is part of human nature. Sad but true that here we are seeking to avoid being judged yet we judge each other!

[Vickie_CDTV]

Seeing what many of my TS friends have been through, I cannot imagine someone would ever have SRS unless they had GID and felt they had no other choice. It isn't reversible (for practical purposes), is very expensive and carries risks (among them being left without the ability to orgasm), therefore I couldn't imagine an otherwise non-TS male having that done to their existing functional male genitals just for superficial reasons, unless they had some other issues.

Someone who had issues and not GID and did reverse their sex change is a man named Charles Kane. He is an example of someone who did not have SRS due to GID and just did it to live out his fantasy, and well... it didn't work out well in the long run. Folks like this really should not be approved for SRS. http://abcnews.go.com/Nightline/vide...tline-14425447

[Patsy]

Actually, I can see how someone might get caught up in this whole game and have SRS when it wasn't really appropriate. Maybe you are stereotypical cross-dresser, you start taking hormones, your mind changes, becomes almost female, you look on SRS as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You somehow feel that everything will be wonderful. Of course, it isn't, everything is the same, except that now you're a second class woman, in a society where women are already second class. The only reason to have SRS is if your appendage disgusts you and you can't live wiv it. Otherwise I'd say it's very low on the TS agenda. More to do wiv how you appear in public. Lots of guys like a bit extra, so it ain't really a disadvantage in the dating game, especially if otherwise you come over as really female. You have to be really, really sure to have SRS. Any doubts at all, don't do it. You do it for you, not for other people. It won't make you more attractive to men, in fact it will cut off a big proportion of dating partners. OK, you want a real man, but how many real men will go wiv an ersatz woman. Short time maybe, but long time - well you have a lot of competition out there from the GGs, you'd have to be something pretty special. I wouldn't say it's impossible, there are women who have done it, but as I say they were pretty special. For the majority of us, just getting a guy is the first problem, then getting him to stay is the second problem, then getting him to stay long time is the third problem. If they're wiv U to start wiv maybe they like that little bit extra, and if you dump it maybe they'll dump you. Think very, very carefully, before you dump you're competitive advantage. When you become, or are perceived as, a woman you fall outside the male perspective as a competitor, but you fall into a whole new ball game. There are few good men out there, but there are an awful lot of females chasing them.

[Kerstin]

If a person wants to transition and have SRS then that's their business. However I think that doctors have a responsibility to ensure that patients are given appropriate treatment. Because of the nature of the British healthcare system, I don't think a person should be given hormones or SRS just because they say they want it (which doesn't happen anyway). If they're going private, then yeah, let them do whatever they want.

[Sammy777]

EVERYTHING YOU SAID

[SIZE="2"]Are you F*cking kidding me?[/SIZE]

[Patsy]

This is a very serious subject and not to be taken lightly. The suicide rate among post SRS women is very high. There are reasons for this.

[Jeanna]

Being in the Winnipeg transgender scene for several years now, I've heard the questioning and the chitter chatter of the legitimacy of one's transitioning by other tg folks over and over again. I don't know what provokes them to do the questioning and never asked what their beliefs were.
When they ask for my opinion on the legitimacy, I either tend to ignore the question or answer with "Doesn't matter, it does not change my support of (the person in question)'s decision".

So laying that out, what are your thoughts of a person going through SRS and other transitioning procedures for strictly cosmetic for appearance and living preferences with no (or very little) GID reasons?
Do you believe that GID should be required to proceed to the SRS?

How do you know what GID conditions lay in another one's head? One should mind their on P's and Q's

[Jeanna]

Actually, I can see how someone might get caught up in this whole game and have SRS when it wasn't really appropriate. Maybe you are stereotypical cross-dresser, you start taking hormones, your mind changes, becomes almost female, you look on SRS as the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You somehow feel that everything will be wonderful. Of course, it isn't, everything is the same, except that now you're a second class woman, in a society where women are already second class. The only reason to have SRS is if your appendage disgusts you and you can't live wiv it. Otherwise I'd say it's very low on the TS agenda. More to do wiv how you appear in public. Lots of guys like a bit extra, so it ain't really a disadvantage in the dating game, especially if otherwise you come over as really female. You have to be really, really sure to have SRS. Any doubts at all, don't do it. You do it for you, not for other people. It won't make you more attractive to men, in fact it will cut off a big proportion of dating partners. OK, you want a real man, but how many real men will go wiv an ersatz woman. Short time maybe, but long time - well you have a lot of competition out there from the GGs, you'd have to be something pretty special. I wouldn't say it's impossible, there are women who have done it, but as I say they were pretty special. For the majority of us, just getting a guy is the first problem, then getting him to stay is the second problem, then getting him to stay long time is the third problem. If they're wiv U to start wiv maybe they like that little bit extra, and if you dump it maybe they'll dump you. Think very, very carefully, before you dump you're competitive advantage. When you become, or are perceived as, a woman you fall outside the male perspective as a competitor, but you fall into a whole new ball game. There are few good men out there, but there are an awful lot of females chasing them.

You are kidding,,,right?

[Princess Chantal]

Actually, I can see how someone might get caught up in this whole game and have SRS when it wasn't really appropriate.

Your opening sentence caught my attention and gave me thoughts that the post should be a good worthy read. Unfortunately, it didn't take much reading to decide to skip to the next post.
In the first few years of stepping into the local tg community, I became overwhelmed with the fulltime lifestyles to the point where I was deeply questioning my own gender and lifestyle. I was researching the hormones, SRS, FFS, my work's policies involving gender, and testing the waters of my friends and family's tolerance/acceptance, and so on. Thankfully I didn't rush down that path where it was too far to come back from.

Anyhoo,
I do know someone in the local kink community that has plans to add SRS into his body modification. There's no question in my mind that he'll go through with it as he is financially well off and has succeeded down his blue-printed body modifying plans already (surface peircings, tattoos, transdermal implants and subdermal implants). Quite interesting person to chat with and see his artistry of his body. Unless you are an associate of his, you would never know his body modifications as it isn't plain to the eye to see. He doesn't really associate with or socialize with the tg community as he doesn't have a desire to appear feminine or transition.

[Julia_in_Pa]

The Standards Of Care exist for a reason.
Without them countless trans people would have made mistakes in surgical options that they thought they were" wanting" at the time.
Even with the standards for medical protocol in place there are those due to having large financial pools in which to draw from are able to buy their way through.
Yes, I'm very pleased that a medically professional diagnosis of GID is needed for the overwhelming majority of those that transition.
If your transitioning for any other reason than to rid yourself of GID you need to ask yourself why your doing this.
Take it from me this is one road you dont want to travel down unless it's a life or death situation.


Julia

[rachael.davis]

Bing Bing Bingg Bing - Julia for the win.
I sort of freaked a few months ago when I rolled over in bed, and felt my (little) breasts move. I had a massive WTF moment, went into several months of doubt about what I was doing, and pretty much came back to "I'm doing this because I don't want to die next year, and if I don't, I might". I guess that's more of an informed decision than I had made up through then.

[LeaP]

So laying that out, what are your thoughts of a person going through SRS and other transitioning procedures for strictly cosmetic for appearance and living preferences with no (or very little) GID reasons?
Do you believe that GID should be required to proceed to the SRS?

Taking your questions exactly as posed (meaning in the realm of personal choice and excluding pathologies like psychosis), my answer is that the choices people make for cosmetic surgery are none of my business, nor anyone else's. In my view, SRS for cosmetics only is pretty extreme, but it's still no-one else's business. Anyone taking the position that it is permissable to restrict choice is also in the business of defending why some procedures are acceptable and others not. There's some pretty extreme body modification going on out there. No-one is talking about restricting those people's choices. (forked tongues, facial tattoos, implants, surgeries, etc.)

Lea

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I agree with you Lea. As you say, this is only a very strict interpretation of the question...

For ts and cd people, one thing i see all the time is people NOT taking responsibility for themselves. Some say about themselves, "I got diagnosed" as transsexual.. HUH??????

It is your responsibility. If you want SRS for ANY reason, you should be allowed to do it. I think the medical community has its own responsibility to inform you of the awful the mistake you are making if you are not a woman....
And they are well set up to help .. The standards of care have grown from many years of real experience...the folks that are ramping up crossdressing to the point of wondering about transition will almost certainly realize its a mistake, especially if they follow the standards of care... the resources and help is all there..

If you do it anyway, then its not about me or anyone else...its about an idiot, like that Charles Kane guy... what he did is totally and completely on HIM, not anyone else.

Also, not every transsexual suffers GID, especially youngsters... If you can express your femaleness easily and early, then you avoid the GID problem..
so i think its very possible as we go forward that really positive outcomes will become the norm as all of us old folk drift off...

[RachelOKC]

If you do it anyway, then its not about me or anyone else...its about an idiot, like that Charles Kane guy... what he did is totally and completely on HIM, not anyone else.

Exactly. His bad choices, his consequences to deal with. What infuriated me is that he used his situation as springboard to tell the world that transition is wrong for everyone. Apparently his ego is so big that he's not responsible for his own life and mistakes. Colossal jerk!

[Princess Chantal]

Is the use of the phrase "I got diagnosed as transsexual" to cool the assumed heat of those that may be questioning the legitimacy? Maybe some sort of proof that their decision is the right choice?
I do agree with your Huhhh??? reaction, Kaitlyn. I often have the same reaction when someone states similiar phrases when I didn't question their choice on transitioning in the first place.

[LeaP]

Also, not every transsexual suffers GID, especially youngsters... If you can express your femaleness easily and early, then you avoid the GID problem..

Well-taken.

Also, there's a point of view that maintains that the medical gatekeeping role is more about defending the cisgender population than it is about treating transsexuals.

Lea

[Bree-asaurus]

I agree with you Lea. As you say, this is only a very strict interpretation of the question...

For ts and cd people, one thing i see all the time is people NOT taking responsibility for themselves. Some say about themselves, "I got diagnosed" as transsexual.. HUH??????

It is your responsibility. If you want SRS for ANY reason, you should be allowed to do it. I think the medical community has its own responsibility to inform you of the awful the mistake you are making if you are not a woman....
And they are well set up to help .. The standards of care have grown from many years of real experience...the folks that are ramping up crossdressing to the point of wondering about transition will almost certainly realize its a mistake, especially if they follow the standards of care... the resources and help is all there..

If you do it anyway, then its not about me or anyone else...its about an idiot, like that Charles Kane guy... what he did is totally and completely on HIM, not anyone else.

Also, not every transsexual suffers GID, especially youngsters... If you can express your femaleness easily and early, then you avoid the GID problem..
so i think its very possible as we go forward that really positive outcomes will become the norm as all of us old folk drift off...

You know Kaitlyn, sometimes I hate when you post in a thread before me. I'll be reading the thread, collecting all the things I want to say, and then I'll get to your post (and Lea's here) and bam! You beat me to it... and usually in a much more well thought out manner.

I have nothing to add but *likes*

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Exactly. His bad choices, his consequences to deal with. What infuriated me is that he used his situation as springboard to tell the world that transition is wrong for everyone. Apparently his ego is so big that he's not responsible for his own life and mistakes. Colossal jerk!

Thanks for bringing that up..

He transitioned for attention, and he untransitioned for attention..hurting lots of people in the process.. he is a shameful person

[Badtranny]

You know Kaitlyn, sometimes I hate when you post in a thread before me. I'll be reading the thread, collecting all the things I want to say, and then I'll get to your post (and Lea's here) and bam! You beat me to it... and usually in a much more well thought out manner.

I have nothing to add but *likes*

Yes it is highly irritating. ;-)

...but I still gotta say that it is absolutely none of my business what someone wants to do with their body. I have my hands full dealing with my own transition issues and as irate as I get when someone tries to boss me around, I can't imagine telling someone else they should be more like me.

Taste the rainbow baby.

[Jennifer in CO]

two cents from someone who's been there...
I posted before about my transition back in the early 80's so I won't go into it. I never really considered myself a "non-Op" transexual...heck...I didn't even consider myself a TS of any kind. I did it because I when I grew breasts and with an already feminine appearance it was easier to present (and live) as a female than as a male with breasts (ok...so I wanted to as well but for the moment we won't go there). 2nd class citizen?...only in employment. In the 80's the "glass ceiling" was as hard as rock. There were jobs that women could (can) do but weren't open to them and if they finally got into them they were paid less just because. I guess you had to consider part of your pay as the privilege of getting to do a job normally reserved for a man. Oh..and you had to do the job twice as good just to keep it.
Outside of work?...2nd class?...you kiddin me?...how many men open doors for other men? how many men pull out chairs for men? how many men go out of their way to help other men change a tire, or anything else for that matter? Outside of the workplace, we (women) have been treated as royalty. How can that be "2nd class"? Personally, I enjoyed greatly my time as a woman. It was a wonderful experience and made my post transition life as an employing male a much more sensitive to the needs and attitudes of the women that worked for me. As a working male I brought my experience into the workplace and did what I could to remove the glass ceiling. The best "person" for the job got it.
People decide to change/alter their body (up to and including sex) for all kinds of reasons. The key to the decision is not in proving to someone else its whats best for them, but the real purpose of the Standards of Care are to make sure you prove to yourself its what you want beyond a Shadow of a doubt as its not exactly easy to reverse your decision.

Jenn

[Bree-asaurus]

Outside of work?...2nd class?...you kiddin me?...how many men open doors for other men? how many men pull out chairs for men? how many men go out of their way to help other men change a tire, or anything else for that matter? Outside of the workplace, we (women) have been treated as royalty. How can that be "2nd class"? Personally, I enjoyed greatly my time as a woman. It was a wonderful experience and made my post transition life as an employing male a much more sensitive to the needs and attitudes of the women that worked for me. As a working male I brought my experience into the workplace and did what I could to remove the glass ceiling. The best "person" for the job got it.

I dunno... Sometimes men can make you feel like a 2nd class citizen.

At Autozone with my boyfriend. I'm explaining something to a "technician" that I dealt with many times back when I was a dude (he didn't make the connection though. I was just some girl with a loud mouth to him). Even though I was the one asking the questions, he would direct all his responses to my boyfriend who hadn't said a single word. I guess it's because CLEARLY my boyfriend, who doesn't even know how disk brakes work, knows more about cars than his girlfriend that beefed up an old pickup and resto-modded a classic Camaro. Ah the knowledge inherent in every man from birth! The penis must be a second brain that us girls are missing out on...

[Shelly Preston]

There are lots of people who wish to transition

The medical proffesion do their best to ensure anyone choosing this path is making the correct decision. Yes sometimes people will make mistakes in their choices even with the best advice. I think just because someone has mad a mistake they should not be saying its wrong for everyone.

I respect people have a right to choose how they want to live but that comes with the responsibility of living with the consequences. That is why so much care is taken by doctors.

Sadly today we live in a world where most things seem to be wanted yesterday. I now the transitioning journey is a difficult one, but I would rather it was immensly difficult than find out it was wrong.