Gender Binary?

[lizbendalin]

In the last year or so, in my work with the LGBT organization at our local university, more and more people are complaining and fighting against the idea that you are either male or female (the gender binary). More and more of them are defining themselves as gender queer and presenting in a blend of masculine and feminine. Some of the transfolk do wish to change their gender, but it seems like a majority want to blend the gender attributes.

I'm just curious as to what your views are: Is gender binary? Do we limit people in their self-identity when we (or doctors/therapists) say that they need to pick a gender (or present as one or the other)? Is the idea of blending the genders something that is attractive to you, or something that is foreign?

[JessHaust]

I don't believe that Gender is a binary thing at all. I fit somewhere along a 3-axis plot of masculine-feminine, heterosexual-homosexual and presentation. Confusing yes, but plot it out on paper and it makes sense.

[kimdl93]

I am inclined to believe, based on the evidence, that gender is a fairly fluid thing. Even the physical differences between male and female can, to some degree mix in development, and the mental dimension appears far more maleable. It may be that as our society grows more accepting, that more people are willing to acknowlege what has been there all along. Or maybe all those estrogen like chemicals in the water and food supply are changing us. Either way, I'm all for it

[Kate Simmons]

I dunno Hon. If you throw everything into a waring blender, you get kind of a "heinz 57" product, which is what many of us are anyway.

[Julia_in_Pa]

Hi,


I'm neither a cross dresser nor am I technically TS but intersexed.
I possess both genders biologically.
You could say I am the ultimate expression of gender combination.

How I feel about that however is not what you would think.
I'm a woman, always have been.
I transitioned over five years ago to a gender binary.

People can do what the want and present as what they feel they are I just don't participate in it nor do I care to.

For the gender variant the term transgender fits the bill just fine.

For most TS and IS people it's the gender binary that is the goal. Once achieved why would one return?


Julia

[Sara Jessica]

Gender is fluid, many of us in these pages prove that it isn't all about whether one is 100% female or 100% male. Or maybe it's better said that expression is fluid, how one presents their gender to the outside world.

However, the concept of gender binary is as much sociological as anything else. Girls wear pink, boys wear blue. Girls play with dolls, boys play with trucks...and so on. This societal construction is something that makes the lives of TG individuals so difficult, because we deviate from that binary.

Personally, I'm not looking to blend the genders so much. I was simply drafted to the wrong team at birth.

[lizbendalin]

So if gender is more of a spectrum, is our tendency to express ourselves in a binary way a result of societal pressure and expectations? And, why is it that within much of the transgender community those that truly blend their gender presentations are often ridiculed and ostracized by those within the community itself (for giving us a bad name/ for being "freaks") I know I might be generalizing but I've heard it fairly often.

[Julia_in_Pa]

For the majority of my friends and I there is little to no interaction with anyone who is gender fluid.
I work, I go home, I eat then alot of the time it's off to bed.

For recreation I enjoy shooting at the range and just living life.
For my camp everyone has mostly just moved on to live their lives caring less about anything to do with the transgender community overall.
It's less about not liking those that are gender variant and more just having moved on.
I enjoy being on this forum as a way to communicate with others that are also TS/IS since I never really associate with anyone of my kind in the real world.


Julia

[Michaella]

I absolutely agree with JessHaust. I enjoy gender-bending, presenting with traditionally femme things like earrings, long hair, skirts, nail polish and so forth, while not trying to pass as a woman. When I do try to pass, or at least blend in, while presenting as a woman, it is as a means of being feminine and not creating a problem, since people expect woman can be feminine. I get a bit uncomfortable with the deception part of that. On a few occasions I've been able to dress in a very feminine way while not trying to pass as a woman and that has been very satisfying.

So no, not binary at all, a continuum on all three axes.

Michaella

[STACY B]

Well here is the deal ,, im a lady when its time to go shoes shoping or clothes shoping or get our nails done or hair done ,, But I have to be a man when its time to fix something or buy something or argue with someone or maybe even pick up something real heavy or pee outside or holler real loud to scare someone , Then back to a lady when its time to shave my body or paint my nails ,Or back to a man when its time to shave my face ,Then back to a ladt when I do my hair , Or back to a lady when when I have to WOOP some azz to defend my SO honor , Then back to a lady when I have to cook ,,,Or wait did I cook in MAN or woman ,, OH well I dune forgot what H::"L Waittttt A min ,,,,, Alrite what was the question again ohhhhhh never mind I gotta go .........

[suchacutie]

My perspective is that the biological gender and the mental gender need to be addressed separately. With some notable exceptions, most of us have a clear single biological gender, but even if we have the attributes of both biological genders those attributes are physically present and clear.

Mental gender is another matter, and it is there that we run the spectrum, not only in who we feel we are as to presentation, but who we feel we are as being attracted to some part of the gender presentation of others. It is here that we can be fluid if we choose, or isolationists if we choose.

However, even though my plural gender identity is most comfortable when the gender characteristics are as separated as possible (which could be described as two different applications running off the same database!), the very fact that I present in two separate genders with one body requires some compromises about presenstation. One can't only have pierced ears in one gender presentation. It's not easy to have arched eyebrows only some of the time. Likewise taking care of one's skin to maximize one's feminine presentation can't be undone (nor should it be) in one's masculine presentation. The list could continue for very long!

Thus, the state of one's mental gender and one's gender presentation could be one extreme or the other, but those extremes seem to be coming more unusual. Wouldn't it be odd if, after all, the extremes of mental gender simply disappear. Just imagine if everyone realized they were to some degree transgendered! The social ramifications of that are astounding!

tina

[Julogden]

There are many who want to force a strict religion-based binary gender/sexual identity system on everyone with no wiggle room, but I feel that if there were no religious or cultural constraints, we'd see a continuum of gender expression/sexual identity and many would be fluid.

Carol

[*Vanessa*]

imho - gender is fluid and has its base function only on the mind. Although possibly unhappy, a quadriplegic male (for sake of argument) could easily fit somewhere along the generic spectrum. The argument as presented 'only' allows for a response associated with a visual presentation, so therefore, only is relevant from an audience perspective. I don't need to belong to be me, but long to belong.

[AussiegirlCD]

Gender to me is more of a quantum state, it has multiple dimensions all going simultaneously. I'm sure the famous late physicist Richard Feynmann would have agreed.
It's a fairly well known part of quantum theory, that a subatomic particle can exhibit multiple spin states simultaneously, and be either, both or neither all at once.

Professor Pheobe'z PHD (Pretty Hot Dame)

[Barbara Ella]

Most things are generally a continuum unless there has been a specific purpose designed into the system. The sex, or physical gender, was developed for a specific purpose, procreation, therefore is binary. I think even the intersex recognize this and as Julia said, would rather be one or the other, and fortunately, can make that decision, and hopefully live a happy fruitful life.

The mental gender is the continuum as it has no specific purpose that cannot be served by being binary. Most people are programmed, or make the decision to match their mental and physical genders. Others, for whatever reason, cannot make that decision and have it stick. There really is no reason for it to stick as most conventions for gender expression are imposed outwardly by societal pressures. Societal pressures have never had a true relationship with the psychological needs of the individuals, and this is where the blending begins as it is normal to mentally question all aspects tht are outwardly imposed.

So it is normal to have a blended gender, and some will blend it more than others. I like to think that the individuals who do it more have a more active mental capability than the people who can only imagine one mental gender.

Babes

[Bree-asaurus]

I believe gender is probably more fluid than fixed. But I think most people do fit within the gender binary. In my personal experience, the people who once identified as between genders eventually realized they were actually the opposite gender.

I'm sure there are people who identify as somewhere between male and female, but I think a lot of people are in the process of self discovery and don't quite know who they are yet. A lot of people who are actually transexual go through this process of figuring out who they are and they may apply several different labels to themselves over time. We see it every day on this forum. A crossdresser who realizes they aren't just a crossdresser. A transgender who realizes that they may, in fact, be transexual.

Hopefully, in the future, society won't be so freaked out by people who do not fit the norm and allow individuals who can't be pigeonholed the ability to find out who they are without having to break through all the repression.

But I'm not talking about masculinity and femininity here. Those are traits that either gender can have. We see more and more today that men aren't all the macho men and women aren't all the submissive, stay at home moms.

[sissystephanie]

In a purely technical sense, you are either male or female! That depends on which sex organs you were born with! As an example, I was born with male sex organs so therefore I am a male. But I am also a crossdresser!! I love to wear womans clothing, even out in public! Does that make me a female? Not in the slightest!! I have NO desire to be a woman, in any sense of the word. I just like to dress like one. That is me, a male, being ME!!

[Bree-asaurus]

In a purely technical sense, you are either male or female! That depends on which sex organs you were born with! As an example, I was born with male sex organs so therefore I am a male. But I am also a crossdresser!! I love to wear womans clothing, even out in public! Does that make me a female? Not in the slightest!! I have NO desire to be a woman, in any sense of the word. I just like to dress like one. That is me, a male, being ME!!

We're not talking about sex, we are talking about gender. If you don't know the difference, I suggest you do some research. Your views are quite antiquated. But of course, you're welcome to your opinion

[Julia_in_Pa]

Stephanie,

I was born with functioning male genitalia and partial fallopian tube development and ovaries.
What does that make me?

I'm sure as H3ll not a man.


Julia

In a purely technical sense, you are either male or female! That depends on which sex organs you were born with! As an example, I was born with male sex organs so therefore I am a male. But I am also a crossdresser!! I love to wear womans clothing, even out in public! Does that make me a female? Not in the slightest!! I have NO desire to be a woman, in any sense of the word. I just like to dress like one. That is me, a male, being ME!!

[LeaP]

In a purely technical sense, you are either male or female! That depends on which sex organs you were born with!

Sorry, that's just not true. Different TECHNICAL aspects of physical gender also include secondary sex characteristics, chromosomes, hormones, and brain sex. That still leaves out gender identity from a psychological point of view.

A male may be born without a penis (penile agenesis). Doesn't make him any less male. Androgen insensitive women have male chromosomes but have female genitalia.

To the topic, the binary is a valid construct because it fits a super-majority of the population. TG/TS/IS are exceptions and, as Bree, Julia and others have pointed out, it describes even a lot of those. I also like Bree's care in separating out expression from identity. I.e., identity may be stated to be even more binary than expression, which is largely cultural anyway.

Lea

[Bree-asaurus]

Sorry, that's just not true. Different TECHNICAL aspects of physical gender also include secondary sex characteristics, chromosomes, hormones, and brain sex. That still leaves out gender identity from a psychological point of view.

A male may be born without a penis (penile agenesis). Doesn't make him any less male. Androgen insensitive women have male chromosomes but have female genitalia

Lea

Some people seem to forget that humans invented the terms 'gender,' 'sex,' 'male' and 'female' and applied them to what they understood at the time. We understand far more now and so we change our language and definitions to fit the new evidence.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Expression, gender, genitals...i like thinking of it that way...it makes sense

The problem we all face is trying to explain that to the 999+/1000 people that literally have no ability to comprehend how any of us can actually exist...
they dont care, and they mostly have NO REASON to care..this is the gender binary world...we all live in it..
like it or not, and we are all marginalized by it...

It's like the old wilson pickett song..
When a male genitaled, fluid gender expessing, female gendered man loves a woman.......not very catchy..

[Bree-asaurus]

It's like the old wilson pickett song..
When a male genitaled, fluid gender expessing, female gendered man loves a woman.......not very catchy..

I thought it was quite touching...

[Badtranny]

I think about this a lot and I wonder if my societal indoctrination is the reason I must transition. For some reason it's real important to me that people see a woman when they look at me, but that is such a long and difficult process that life would be better if I could just be happy as something in between. Clearly I was born a man but I have so many outwardly feminine characteristics that maybe I was just never meant for the binary in the first place.

Young people today are blessed with so many more options and maybe someday we will learn that a sex change is a bit of an over correction to a child that wasn't mis-gendered, but simply mis-socialized.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

I think about this a lot and I wonder if my societal indoctrination is the reason I must transition. For some reason it's real important to me that people see a woman when they look at me, but that is such a long and difficult process that life would be better if I could just be happy as something in between. Clearly I was born a man but I have so many outwardly feminine characteristics that maybe I was just never meant for the binary in the first place.

Young people today are blessed with so many more options and maybe someday we will learn that a sex change is a bit of an over correction to a child that wasn't mis-gendered, but simply mis-socialized.

This is very interesting...but for me I had NO outward feminine characteristics..but like you, it is just as important what people see..

Identity flows both ways. It matters to others what gender they are communicating with...having my gender reflected back at me is no less important than expressing it to me..

It is possible that at birth there are two genders, and then socialization begins to do its work immediately..or its possible that we are all fluid at birth.. we can never know...

my own experience in the ts world, is that it hints towards 2 genders, otherwise the drive to live as your true gender would not cause us to do the crazy things we do just to survive.. it seems if i was even 5% male, i could squeak by as male...no matter how much socialization i got as male, i couldn't function over time...

for people that are male and crossdress it makes perfect sense that there is a strong view towards gender fluidity....
the idea that some men gain comfort in thinking of themselves as women (sometimes) is not that different than gaining comfort from wearing womens clothes at home, or trying to go out as women hoping to get maam'd....