Thanks Darla! That's the type of thing I was looking for. So it happens coming over here too. Customs really makes me paranoid.Originally Posted by darla_g
Thanks Darla! That's the type of thing I was looking for. So it happens coming over here too. Customs really makes me paranoid.
Interesting thread considering I just got my Canadian work visa and will start crossing the WA/BC boarder everyday for work. I don't have any experience crossing en femme, and I am not sure I would have enough courage to do. I am a little nervious about my daily crossing, my look is a bit androginous and I don't really want to be picked out going either way. What do you do, you have the right to express yourself how ever you want but the boarder guards also have the right to do what they call there job. Like you I am interested to hear how it goes but not interested in sitting in a customs office en femme on either side.
"Holly came from Miami, F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the USA
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She says, Hey babe
Take a walk on the wild side"
I live within 5 minutes of a border crossing and US customs can pull you in without just cause and literally tear your vehicle apart, seats anything they can remove and then tell you to put it back together. I'm sure they can detain you for as long as they like inside if they feel like it. They do have absolute power over you coming into the US and to me it isnt worth the hassle crossing enfemme. Personally I wouldn't do it.
Better Police for a better Police State.
ALWAYS plan for the worst, then you can be pleasantly surprised if something else happens!
"The important thing about the bear is not how well she dances, but that she dances at all." - Old Russian Proverb (with a gender change)
yes going into canada, single guy driving and crossing near Sarnia at least once and at Niagara Falls too.
It was only fairly recently (2007) that Canadian border guards have been issued side arms, unlike their U.S. counterparts for whom carrying hand guns has always been standard practice.
According to this Toronto Star article, the Detroit/Windsor border crossing is an especially dangerous one because so many people traversing it (especially Americans) are found with hand guns in their possession.
http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/a...-guns-80-times
Most are not criminals - they are just ordinary folk steeped in the U.S. gun culture and for whom carrying a gun is no big deal - and really no different from carrying their wallets and house keys when travelling. It comes as a shock and surprise to them that a different, less gun-centric culture exists in Canada, and that with the exception of rifles and shotguns and the like, there are far more restrictions here as to what kinds of weapons civilians can possess - especially the more lethal variety including hand guns and automatic weapons like AK-47's and AR-15's.
It's ironic, then, that many right-wing Americans still see us post-9/11 as this hornet's nest of foreign terrorist activity that is just straining at the bit to infiltrate the U.S. and wreak untold damage. Hey, don't look at us - we're just the quiet neighbors living above a noisy biker bar.
I sure am glad that I am not one of those wacked out right-wing Yanks. And I aways try to keep it down while the neighbors are sleeping.many right-wing Americans still see us post-9/11 as this hornet's nest of foreign terrorist activity that is just straining at the bit to infiltrate the U.S. and wreak untold damage. Hey, don't look at us - we're just the quiet neighbors living above a noisy biker bar
"Holly came from Miami, F.L.A.
Hitch-hiked her way across the USA
Plucked her eyebrows on the way
Shaved her legs and then he was a she
She says, Hey babe
Take a walk on the wild side"
I am a 72 year old Canadian, who has taken the Amtrak train between Montreal and New York City several times over the past few years. I have a full head of gray hair, which I decided to wear longer a few years ago. I tie it back in a ponytail, but my passport photo was taken shortly before I decided to change my hair style. I am always dressed in full guy mode for these trips, but my passport always gets closer scrutiny than my wife's, because of my slightly different hair style. They look at me, then the photo, then back at me, and then back at the photo for an agonizingly long time, sometimes asking me about my altered appearance. I get this on both sides of the border. I hate to think what their reaction would be if I was wearing anything remotely feminine in appearance.
It all depends on the inspection team, but whether travelling by car or train, both countries can give you a rough time, over nothing. Years ago, when returning to Canada from a weeks vacation, an obnoxious attendant sent us over to have our car and luggage checked, for no obvious reason. The inspector doing the vehicle check, asked me to open one of the suit cases, which was filled with all of our dirty laundry. He just smiled and said "okay, get going", and ignored everything else.
Veronica
Ok. I just got off the phone with my friend who works for Homeland Security and was for many years in charge of the incoming airport terminals. The answer is:……. It depends…..
It depends on the experience of the agents, what kind of day they are having, how accommodating your attitude is and just how far off you are from the ID you are presenting. This is one area where those of use that don’t pass well have the advantage.
Almost nobody looks exactly like their ID, so they are trained to look for things that are the same, not different. When you deal daily with a hundred different types of religious clothing, everything from Buddhist Monks to Catholic Nuns, Tourists in their local fashions, the Amish and the Muslim Burkes. (Spelling?) us lowly CDer’s are really pretty Ho Hum to any agent that’s been on the job for a few months.
There are dozens of other flags they look for to determine a person of interest. Hair and a clothing style isn’t one of them.
If you are really good, you might have to lift your wig or answer a few extra questions in your male voice, but as soon as they determine that your just another boring Crossdresser, you will be on your way. If they even bother to stop you.
And BTW, in the five years she was in charge, she figures about 2.5 million people came though her stations, Number of guns drawn, 0.
When a woman dresses like a man, it's ok. But when a man dresses like a woman, you think it's degrading. Because you think being a woman is degrading. -Madonna-
I just need to chime in that, as someone who crosses the border regularly on business (I have staff in both the US and CA), the ONLY grillings, detentions, take-em to the back room events, or similar that I've personally witnessed have ALL been by Canadian border agents. I have no problem with that, nor should that be taken to somehow reflect badly on Canadians (I LIKE Canadians), it's just what I've observed. From a personal standpoint, I have found both US and CA border agents well-trained and professional - virtually identical in approach, actually. I see nothing to fear from either.
Lea
Last edited by LeaP; 02-25-2012 at 12:14 AM. Reason: missing word
Thanks for the new replies ladies, very informative.
The same applies for Canadian Customs. I agree that it isn't worth giving customs officers anything to hang their hat on as a person of interest.
A famous person once said "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself". Oh yea that was Winston Churchill.
If I were to say from my observations over the years and from working with countless trans people I would have to say the vast majority of CDs 'fear fear itself.
If someone is not afraid they will fit into the world. On the other hand if they are fearful then they tend to stand out like a sore thumb. Perhaps thats why CDs are often so easy to spot they stand out with fear related displays. So even if you were a CD and you somehow were able to put a perfect presentation with a perfect voice and all but you were fearful you would still stand out. Its just that simple.
So come to think about it if you go through customs and are fearful you probably will send up red flags. Now if you were to go through customs and not exhibit fear and they asked you about your ID and you smiled and said your a crossdresser and still had no fear I bet they would send you on your way.
Last edited by Katesback; 02-24-2012 at 09:32 PM.
Thanks Katie! This has made for a good discussion.
I think it's more than that. Beyond visibility, fear behavior triggers a predator/dominance response as well.
Lea
Kate:
Actually, that famous saying is usually ascribed to WWII U.S. President Franklin Delano Roosevelt, and came out of one of his famous "fireside chat" radio broadcasts. But no matter, and no quibbling about the essence of the message - both he and Winston Churchill were staunch and tenacious defenders of freedom against the dictatorships in place in Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan at the time, and Churchill often said much the same thing. So you only lose 1 point on a technicality
Lea:
I don't doubt what you are saying, but I also can't help but think that this perceived kinder/gentler treatment by the U.S. border guards that you are getting is due in no small part to the fact that you are an American citizen travelling on a U.S. passport, and returning home to your own country of origin. In effect, they are accepting "one of their own" back into the fold when you cross the border back to the US, as opposed to dealing with one of those suspicious "furrinners".
BTW, did you ever consider getting one of those government-issued Nexus cards? That should facilitate the border crossing in both directions considerably...
OK, I read it, it doesn't specifically say American air space or flights into America BUT it says flying in general no matter where you are headed from Canada. Sounds like it is part of a Canadian version of the patriot act and clearly discriminates against trans gendered people, amongst a whole other slew of people. Without a doubt it's some bad legislation.
As far back as I can remember, and I am closeted so I have never tried crossing the bridge/tunnel en femme, they have always had a thing about pulling over the nicer vehicles or the ones that have tinted windows just to be nosey even if nothing suspicious was taking place
All of this just supports my idea that crossing border or flying en femme is a bad idea, unless of coarse your totally out or in transition. Since 9/11 and the patriot act, alot has change that we don't even begin to know about, and they make alot of claims about this or that because no one has actually read the act.
Nancy poleski ( don't know if the name is right) said the most a**holed thing I have ever heard in my lifetime when they were voting on this act "we need to pass this act to really find out what is in it". which one would think they would know before voting on it.
A lot of CD's dress just to dress and I just think it's a bit too much of a hassle to cross borders dressed. I like the suggestion that you dress once your across
Flip Flops were made for Beaches & Bath Houses, We have neither in 2017. Lose the flip flops!
Oh, it has nothing to do with my treatment. I've invariably had the cursory question or two, the quick glance, stamp, NEXT! from agents in both countries. The events I cited happened to other people. I've had Indian staff denied entry, traveling companions pulled into the inspection room at Toronto City Airport (Porter Air), witnessed people getting absolutely grilled at Pearson coming into CA, seen CA agents taking people off in cuffs, etc.
I have considered Nexus but haven't gotten the card yet. What triggered the thought is the experience of arriving at Pearson just behind a couple of gigantic double-deckers arriving from Asia ... and waiting in the CA Customs line for an hour and a half, backed up well past the rear doors. (Anyone who knows this airport gets an immediate picture of how many people that is.) It's happened 3 or 4 times.
Lea
Perhaps some day crossdressers will stand up and fight for thier rights. Till then I see them hiding in the shadows and closets. Is it sad? Well let me put it this way. I have over the years listened to CDs complain about 1000 socitial issues they percieve they face. The downside of this is that an extremely small percentage actually get out in the real world (GLBT venues really dont count) and live thier lives.
Oh well just talking out loud.
@ Katie, it's not all doom and gloom. There are many CD girls on this board out and about and some are even doing events to educate the general public. They are opening doors for all of us, be it CD/TG/TS. I give credit where credit is due.
I'm just not so sure being brave without proper identification at an international border crossing makes anybody a coward. That's why I posted to see if people had actually attempted it while dressed. I mean if you don't look like your I.D. the red flags will come up. I also don't know how long they can detain you, etc.
Marleena
I wish I could be there with you in either Canada or Detroit. I am originally from Detroit and only left there as I had entered to US Navy. I have been back a few times but did not dress while there. I want to return as I now know that Janet's Closet is nearby. So no I have not crossed the border dressed. Please put in a good word for me the next time you are in my hometown.
Tess
[COLOR="blue"]Contessa Marie D
I'm TG. A fem-male so I look male sometimes.
Dressing is necessary, the type of clothes you wear not so much.
This above all to thy own self be true!
First of all thanks for service in the Navy, Tess. I'll do what I can from here.
Marleena,
Please put in a good word for me too. I am also an ex-Michigander and have shopped many times out at Twelve Oaks mall in Novi, which was very close to where my Mom lived.
Contessa: You should also try Gigi's and The Rainbow Room while back in the Detroit area.
I always noticed that the Customs agents going into Canada were always the most brusque and almost unfriendly when I cross the border. However, talking with the Canadians who came to the USA, they would say the same thing about the US Customs Agents. I think that they are trained to asked those quick hard questions to try to get people to slip up and help identify themselves as good candidates to search and question further. I think it probably works quite well and that they catch people who should be caught.
OK to answer you question. When I went to Thailand for SRS I went with credentials that said I was male. Granted everything else was correct but I was Male. On the way home I was NOT male but my passport said I was Male. I cannot say that ANYONE gave me any issues whatsoever. Of course I did not exhibit any fears or out of place presentations. I really did not care what the people thought of me. It was what it was.
Last edited by Katesback; 02-25-2012 at 05:08 PM.
Thanks Katie. I'm not trying to argue with you, just so you know.
I also understand your motives for pushing people to take charge of their lives and promote the cause. We all want to be accepted and the only way it will happen is if we get out there and make it happen.
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